Open 441 - Chosen Mafia (OVER)

[rapidcanyon]

@ Grey

,

I didn't misconstrue Pasch's argument. He did.

I essentially said this:
a) I am not used to deductive reasoning, I am new to it.
b) Here is some deductive reasoning.

Pasch twists this to mean:
a) Rapidcanyon disagrees with deductive reasoning
b) Rapidcanyon is using deductive reasoning - he must be scum!

This is why I felt Pasch was scum.

I didn't know voting for information was common on mafiascum on Day 1 hence my comnpletely incredulity that McStab could be town when he gave that as an explanation for voting Pasch.

I was pointing out that he didn't give those reasons when he voted D1.

You want me to quote where you said you will only go after Eidolon with fire if I flipped scum. There you go:

W

Eid is causing me concern because of his interaction with Rapid. He seemed to be subtly buddying Rapid at the beginning, and is now reading like bussing after the case from McStab. If Rapid flips scum, I want Eid lynched with fire. If Rapid flips Town, I need to rethink Eid's alignment.

@ Whiskers

,

Regarding AtE, I am just genuinely frustrated that not only is Eidolon pushing my lynch while never once saying with conviction that she thinks I am scum, but others like Greywing refuse to go after her if I flip chosen. So, she could possibly get a mislynch, then she could get town cred (despite pushing my lynch the hardest), then she could get away with it. I never appealed to emotion as scum except once a long time ago. I couldn't take the guilt after winning - it seemed like a cheap win because I was the one lying all along. But as town, sometimes my frustration comes out.

Regarding bussing, it is moderately common and mostly dependent on the player. Bussing is done primarily through roles. A scum could claim cop and a guilty on a scumbuddy. This will make him confirmed town. It is fairly rare and is a do or die gambit. Almost every game I have played at debate.org is what you would term "role-madness" games based on the mafiascum wiki which I read in depth. Hence any bussing must always be done through roles. Distancing and voting on a scumbuddy's wagon are generally to be expected but are not conclusive.

[Whiskers]

So you are aware: You did misrep McStab, and iirc you also did misrep Pasch. Your case on Pasch wasn't flawless, but it was correct enough, and he had enough scummy things going on, I don't think it was a bad lynch-- for example, McStab said something along the lines of, "It was an information-lynch, but I thought he might be scum, too." Maybe the most-bad thing about it was the speed at which it was performed-- which you, RC, largely caused with your case, but cannot be blamed for (since you only control your vote).

So: I have a town... eh, kinda. I have a townish read on rapidcanyon, because I know for a fact that he acts

just like this

as town-- as confirmed town. Greywing, you know this too.
I'm similarly leaning town on McStab. I don't know about as town, but when I played alongside him as scum, he didn't really come out of the woodwork until he was the last scum alive, and under pressure. Neither is the case here. Also, his case, pretty much everything he has said, checks out.

I think

Eido

may be scum. I think that rapid

IS

accurately describing

her

actions: she's quietly pushing his lynch while fencesitting about his alignment. She also buddied him earlier in the game, which scum has several reasons to do-- especially to RC (RC gives townreads to players who agree with/buddy him; having a townread on RC all game can give her a lot of towncred when he flips town, and RC is really easy to lynch because he is scummy; defending RC might help him survive into the endgame, where he might be an easy lynch).

realgodfather

might be scum-- if he is, RC does get some scumpoints: RGF was the lynch that would have occurred if RapidCanyon had not stepped in and derailed the lynch and presented Paschendale as an alternative. This is not strongly telling-- but the tell I'm referring to is that [scum steps in to derail scumwagons and provide alternate lynches Day 1], because, with so little information, it doesn't look scummy to do it, and it doesn't look scummy later once the original wagonee flips scum: the derail-er "just didn't know."
In addition, RGF has lurked (imo), made on-liner posts, made really stupid posts-- like voting for "obvious scum" Om after he was nightkilled- things that, depending on how you look at them, could be scumtells, faked towntells, or even grounds for a policy lynch before LyLo.

Greywing

is bugging me. He jumped out to say, "oho, let's lynch RC," and that's really about it. He's practically using regurgitated arguments of mine from That Other Game: "You're misrepping," "You're using AtE," and all of this stuff that would be scummy and incriminating--

had you not just seen him doing it as confirmed town.

Why are you ignoring this? Understand what RC currently is-- because he's a very different creature from us right now, and take note of how he plays. It makes him much easier to read.
Greywing made four posts yesterday, including one in which he said he liked the case on Pasch ("Rapid makes a really good case on Pasch"), but cautioned that the wagon was too fast. It goes through my head in a comedic deadpan. "Wait. No. Don't lynch yet." He didn't really do anything to try to stop the wagon, but he stayed off of it entirely, avoiding the scumpoints that inherently come with being on a townie lynch. Idk. Maybe I'm just looking for things to nitpick, but I have a bad feeling about you, Greywing.

Let's see... Pasch is dead. Om is dead... Whiskers is me, so that just leaves... Ah, Crypto.
Yeah, what do we say about him? Actually, I do have something to say: Wait for a replacement before ending this Day. In fact, we could probably safely wait for a replacement before

posting

again to-Day. Being down a townie means we are missing that player's wisdom and experience (such as they may be), their insight and input. Being down a mafia means we are attacking and lynching townies.

[rapidcanyon]

While I agree that we should try and keep posts to a minimum, another but of analysis I wanted to offer. I agree with most of whiskers analysis above except the part about RealGF. I have a townread on him. Let me explain why before whiskers assumes that it is because RGF said I was town.

At debate.org, I played a beginner's game as town. A scum (let's call him LordKnukle - that is his username) was being randomly pressured by a scummy townie. I derailed that wagon and went for the townie (I was town). Mostly, I wanted to guage reactions and such. So, the townie was lynched and scum-lordknukle survived to the next phase. I was under pressure (obviously) and surprisingly, scum-lordknukle voted for me. This made no sense to me since if he was town, he shouldn't have it as scummy that I diverted pressure from him onto another townie while I could just as easily have gone onto lynch him. His voting me showed that he was scum.

A similar thing happenned with RGF here. I specifically wanted to see if RGF would vote me because if he did, it would be indicative of him being scum to me. He should have no reason to suspect me because I just derailed his wagon. He didn't vote me. He said I was likely town. So, essentially, he didn't take the easy way out. That is why I think realGF is town. Obviously the possibility that we are both scum is there. But I know I am town so from my perspective I don't suspect realGF at all.

Whiskers like I said is either brilliant as scum or more likely town. I think town because of process of elimination. There are only two scum and if Grey and Eido are the scum, then whiskers can't be. His analysis was spot on with regards to Eidolon and Grey. His suspicion of RealGF is justified since he doesn't know for a fact that I am town.

As for McStab, I think town due to process of elimination. He genuinely seemed to think he caught scum when he voted me and with a better understanding of what "information lynches" are, and how they are often used on mafiascum, I can buy his behavior as town.

I made my case against Eidolon in detail. I think she and Grey are the scum. Grey's assertion that he thinks Eidolon and I are both scum or both town fits perfectly with him knowing that Eido is scum and I, town. If I am lynched and flip town, Grey can say that he was mistaken and that Eido and I were town. If Eido is lynched and flips scum, grey can push a lynch on me. This gives him those options. Grey never addresses the fact that Eidolon is pushing my lynch while saying she has a townread on me.

That leaves Crypto. Absolutely no read on him but should be town due to process of elimination unless I made a mistake in my read on Grey or Eidolon. Grey's behavior towards Eidolon is what makes me believe that they are a scumteam. He distances himself from her even taking care to ask the two of us why we pushed Pasch's lynch. He accuses her of being scum but ultimately votes for me. This makes far more sense than say, an Eido-McStab scumteam. Eido is open enough about her support for McStab in a way that a mafioso would rarely demonstrate to a scumbuddy for fear of being linked together.

So, those are my reads so far. Unless anyone responds to this, I will try my best to hold back on posting until Crypto is replaced and Crypto's replacement gives us his analysis.

[Whiskers]

^I think I agree with this. I even understand your read on RGF, but I think you're generalizing too much; RGF

not

committing a certain scumtell does

not

mean he is town. (To give an example-- When I am scum, I generally don't lie and don't intentionally misrep. It makes me look more towny. However, just because I don't commit these specific scumtells does not mean that I am not scum.)
I think RGF is scummy for other reasons but, we can have differing reads an opinions.

[McStab]

I'm not lynching Eidolon today. I'll settle with a RGF lynch, but I'm more enthused with the prospect of a RC lynch. I could be convinced on Greywing or crypto but I really don't see enough content from them to warrant a lynch at this point.

[Whiskers]

So-- cool, Eido/Stab scumteam?
Or, perhaps more likely, lurker scum, who will lurk and not be pressured.
Lynch whomever you'd like, but know that we can only mislynch so many times before we

lose,

and that as soon as we lynch a chosen townie, the player who pushed for that lynch will probably be quicklynched the next day.

[rapidcanyon]

If it is an eido/stab scumteam, would a good player like McStab be openly supportive of her?

McStab, why won't you lynch Eidolon but wouldn't mind lynching a whole bunch of other people. You gave your case on me to which I responded. Why RGF? Or Greywing or Crypto?

Also, what analysis do you have as to the hapennings that went on since you last posted?

[Eidolon]

I think another explanation for om's death is that the mafia were not on the lynch, and they wanted more opportunities to evade POE if we lynched off of pasch's wagon.

I'm starting to lean back towards town on RC because after considering it away from the heat of the moment, his point about scum being off the lynch if pasch was vt does make sense so it might not have been a set-up. he for the most part is playing to his town meta. I think it's possibly grey/rgf team for the way grey zoned in on rgf both day periods.

PEDIT: RC, think about this. As scum do i ever buddy up with my teammates? A me/mcstab scumteam doesn't make much sense. More probable that one is buddying the other or we are both town.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Eidolon, I said I don't think it is you and McStab. I think it is you and Grey. You are right. You don't buddy up to your teammates. You FOS them slightly but not strongly enough to bus them.


My main reason for suspecting you is that you are pushing so hard to lynch me despite never saying that you get a scum read on me. I'd be less suspicious if you had just said that you can read me well and that I was scum at which point I would explain why you are wrong as opposed to suspecting you. I suspect you because you keep saying that your gut says I am town, yet I am supposedly your best lynch target.

Grey's reaction makes perfect sense with you two as a scumteam. He accuses you of being scum. He says he likes your wagon, then he votes for the other wagon. He never directly defends you. He places himself against you while voting for the other option.

[Eidolon]

WHEN DID I EVER push hard to lynch you? you are making that up. I said most of the time that i was either leaning town or undecided. I made one post about "this has sealed the deal" but that post was scummy. You are twisting it against me to make it seem like i am out to get you. if i was out to get you i never would have kept mentioning your townmeta. wtf?

[Eidolon]

You can't deny that your sudden unvote on mcstab seemed scummy because you gave all these justifications for it afterward.

[Eidolon]

RC, could you explain why you say "whiskers is either brilliant scum or town"

I mean, i get you were poking fun at my comment on mcstab, but what is your reasoning.

mcstab, thoughts on whiskers? What about grey's blatant zoning in on rgf both day periods? (see posts 9, 11, 50, and 132) do you think a grey/rgf team is possible?

Whiskers, why did you say i can't be chosen when at the time, only 4 of us had been posting?

[McStab]

Here are my thoughts on what happened recently:

Whiskers townread is the same as before. He's playing consistently. That being said, I doubt he's a Chosen Townie; no one in the game has made a shot at him yet. Even Rapidcanyon in his OMGUS fit didn't go after Whiskers as strongly as myself or Eidolon.

Eidolon also is unlikely to be a Chosen Townie, in my eyes. Despite the mounting criticism on him, he wasn't under any serious pressure Day One, and the criticism has only started to turn on him recently. It's possible, but not very likely.

This leaves one of myself, rapidcanyon, realgodfather, crypto or Greywing to be the Chosen Townie.

Could I be the Chosen Townie? Yes. Near the end of Day One and start of Day Two, I was subject to criticism. However, I think this to be unlikely. I was supported by both Whiskers and Eidolon (who, as I stated earlier, are unlikely to be Chosen Townies). If they are scum, they would've gone against me if I am a Chosen Townie - UNLESS rapidcanyon is also a Chosen Townie, in which case it's win win for either of them. The probability of this, however, is low.

So who are likely to be Chosen Townies? Well, funnily enough, the answers I've came to conclude are actually those who I thought were scummiest before.

Rapidcanyon and RealGodfather. This wagon on Rapidcanyon went one way only; towards Rapidcanyon. Pressure didn't turn around on me, and everyone seems to have assented to it. I legitimately thought he was scum, but the way this wagon's gone, and the lack of any other counterwagons, lead me to conclude Rapid is most likely Chosen Townie.

So, with the conclusion that Rapidcanyon must be Chosen, and then that Whiskers and Eidolon, while not chosen, are town, this leads me to make a few other conclusions:

The Pasch wagon was entirely town. Om is dead and flipped town, I know I'm town, Whiskers and Eidolon feel very town, and I think Rapid is Chosen.

So where were the scum?

Well, if Pasch was a wagon on a VT, and entirely town motivated, then it seems to me that the counterwagon was likely scum motivated and on a Chosen Townie. Realgodfather would make sense. The two people voting him at the end of the day were Greywing and Pasch. Now, Pasch can be excused in that he was trying to push alternatives to him; but what was Greywing's justification?

VOTE: realgodfather

You're not my real godfather. If you're lying about something as big as that, it's not a stretch to assume you're lying about your in-game alignment as well!

His RVS vote. No changing throughout the day. Some people correctly pointed out that this was an awkward vote, and I think they were right. My theory is he voted him and left it on, so that when RGF flipped Chosen, he wouldn't appear to be the main proponent of the wagon. Yet he clearly was:

Thank you for agreeing with me on my first point. Hopefully we can see eye-to-eye in a moment.

While your impulsive and gut-driven playstyle might work a few times, it isn't one of the best ways to play this game. Mafia involves a deeper level of critical thought and concentration than pushing on early gut reads, especially when you play the game on a forum. I urge you to let the game flow its course for a while and take a second look, later -- that's what I'm about to do. I think you'll find that your game will improve exponentially if you do this.

If you don't improve your so-far-slipshod play by tomorrow night, I will lead a lynch on you. That doesn't sound too unreasonable, does it?

So a policy lynch in a game this size? That sounds like a good idea to you?

While it was ostensibly in the defense of Om, I think this was meant to lead the attack on a Chosen Townie RealGodfather. Killing Om makes sense here, because now it looks like RealGodfather has motive to do it.

Om's death makes perfect sense if RC and RGF are the Chosen Townies, because Om criticized both of them. Greywing and whoever his partner is could lead the attacks on both. I just ended up doing the job for him, and so he's sheeped me.


Anyone who ISO's Greywing, with the idea of Greywing being scum and RapidCanyon + RGF being Chosen, will surely see all the other supporting evidence that works here.


I think we've caught one scum easily in Greywing, and I renounce my prior accusations against Rapidcanyon and RGF assuming I am correct. I want to investigate this by lynching Greywing.

Vote:Greywing

It does become much harder to figure out who his partner is. If I had to guess, simply because no other player seems to fit the criteria, I would guess crypto.

For the tl;dr version, Greywing + someone else (likely crypto by PoE) are scum, and RGF and RC are chosen.

[Eidolon]

More likely then them being scum together, I think Eid could be scum buddying with

[the townie who gets townreads on people who buddy him],

while fencesitting so she can push a lynch on a player who is naturally scummy (and so really easy to lynch). I think RC's depiction of EidoScum using his townflip to try to get towncred is not improbable.

Are you referring to mcstab here? how are YOU so sure he's townie yet using my townread on him as a reason for my guilt?

You conveniently have been ignoring the multiple posts where i said that rc has been playing to his townmeta so we should look at his motivations rather than responses.

I only started suspecting him when he did something that didn't fit in with his town meta.

Btw maybe YOU are supporting RC to get towncred.

see what i did there? it's useless wifom if we don't have anything solid to go off of. what SOLID reasons do you have on me besides that my opinions on RC have changed? Are changing opinions a scumtell in and of themselves or is that more consistent with a townie who is attempting to explore options?

[McStab]

Eidolon's town, I'm like 95% sure of it.

[Eidolon]

mcstab's post makes sense. grey is likely scum. Btw, I'm NOT BUDDYING HIM. I ALREADY SAID that i thought Grey was scum for his reaction to RGF.

Vote: Greywing

[McStab]

Also, I'm just pre-empting this before Greywing brings it up, but yes, I did have a total about-face on RC and RGF. This is because I started to try and figure out who could be Chosen based on Day One and Two, as opposed to who could be scum. Once I had the most likely Chosen Townies figured out, finding Greyscum was easy enough.

[Whiskers]

Are you referring to mcstab here? how are YOU so sure he's townie yet using my townread on him as a reason for my guilt?

No, I was referring to Rapidcanyon. When you buddy with him, give him townreads, etc, he declares you town-- in my case, he also declares you "the only logical player." I was saying that you were trying to at once call him town for his meta, but also give support for his lynch. If it works, there's no ill benefit for you.

@McStab: I think I kind of see what you're saying about RC... like, since there was no counterwagon created, he's probably chosen? As in, the scum left that wagon to complete itself? What about the fact that other players, possible scum, haven't been posting (greywing, RGF, crypto)?
Secondly, and I hesitated to point this out: I know that if I were scum here, I would go after NON-chosen townies and only make a weak push and weak suspicion on Chosen townies. Basically, play the game normally, but if I make strong attacks on my targets, the town would be suspicious and

at least

not vote and lynch those targets.
You said RGF is probably a chosen townie too. Why?

Lastly, I have an idea: What do you think about intentionally lynching Vanilla Townies? Lynch VTs, mafia has to kill only VTs, eventually you either hit scum, or you hit a chosen townie, or you hit a stalemate (because there's only Mafia and CTs left). Like, what if we lynched Eidolon and then myself?

[McStab]

@Whiskers: Regarding RC, simply put, yes. The Om kill also makes sense to "frame" him, but not just him, also RGF. RGF has been ignoring the wagon, but I think he's Chosen based on Day One (if scum aren't on the Pasch wagon, then they either didn't vote or pushed RGF, and if Greywing is scum, it clears RGF as Chosen, imo). Crypto I think is scum by PoE but PoE is weak compared to Greywing's scummy posts.

Greywing did post, though, and he came out against RC. This further strengthens my confidence in the theory.

As for lynching Non-Chosen townies, I think that that's not a likely scum strategy. Think about it: You get behind and are responsible for a handful of mislynches, and are left with a last chance lynch against Chosen Townies?

Intentionally lynching VTs isn't how I would put it. I would put it as "intentionally NOT lynching those most likely to be Chosen". Lynching you or Eidolon before RC is good, sure, but lynching you or Eidolon before crypto or Greywing isn't smart.

[Eidolon]

I don't see how being considering someone's lynch is buddying.

Anyway, grey hasn't garnered any suspicion or votes up until recently. he's either a vt or scum too. why me over him?

And you never answered my question. what SOLID information do you have on me being scum? The only thing is that i changed my mind on rc which IS NOT A SCUM TELL unless you have other evidence to back it up.

i think it's a grey/whiskers scumteam.

Even whiskers case on grey was followed up with "maybe i'm nitpicking" yet she won't consider that about me.

[Eidolon]

^ he

[Eidolon]

I might just be having an omgus reaction.

but i find his willingness to lynch me and HIMSELF over grey to be an attempt at covering.

especially if you look at grey's iso and see how scummy it is.

Hey Rc, remember in that one game where (beginners) i KNEW you were scum because you said "it's either lickdafoot or me, lynch lickdafoot" and i told you there was NO reason to tie us together in that situation unless you were scum? Isn't that reminiscent of what whiskers is doing here "lynch eido, then lynch me, don't lynch obvious scum"

she's even covering herself by saying im a vt not chosen, so it's okay if i'm lynched.

[Whiskers]

I don't see how being considering someone's lynch is buddying.

Anyway, grey hasn't garnered any suspicion or votes up until recently. he's either a vt or scum too. why me over him?

And you never answered my question. what SOLID information do you have on me being scum? The only thing is that i changed my mind on rc which IS NOT A SCUM TELL unless you have other evidence to back it up.

i think it's a grey/whiskers scumteam.

Even whiskers case on grey was followed up with "maybe i'm nitpicking" yet she won't consider that about me.

You over him? Probably only because you've posted more, had a chance to look bad more often.
What makes you say that "Greywing is either a vt or scum too?" is there a reason he could not be chosen?

Also, My evidence is all speculation-- but it's a game of speculation, isn't it? It's not that "considering somepony's lynch is buddying," it's that you were considering his lynch and simultaneously telling us, again and again, that you had a townread on him. I looks to me like: 1) You want RC to be lynched, and 2) you don't want to be responsible for the lynch.

@Whiskers: Regarding RC, simply put, yes. The Om kill also makes sense to "frame" him, but not just him, also RGF. RGF has been ignoring the wagon, but I think he's Chosen based on Day One (if scum aren't on the Pasch wagon, then they either didn't vote or pushed RGF, and if Greywing is scum, it clears RGF as Chosen, imo). Crypto I think is scum by PoE but PoE is weak compared to Greywing's scummy posts.

Greywing did post, though, and he came out against RC. This further strengthens my confidence in the theory.

As for lynching Non-Chosen townies, I think that that's not a likely scum strategy. Think about it: You get behind and are responsible for a handful of mislynches, and are left with a last chance lynch against Chosen Townies?

Intentionally lynching VTs isn't how I would put it. I would put it as "intentionally NOT lynching those most likely to be Chosen". Lynching you or Eidolon before RC is good, sure, but lynching you or Eidolon before crypto or Greywing isn't smart.

This whole post: ugh. You're missing the point.
using a nightkill to frame somepony is a really... noobscum thing to do. Who is noob? Eidolong, RC, RGF, possibly crypto (but I'm not sure). +scumpoints, right?
Things like Greywing attacking RC doesn't make RC chosen if you play mafia the way I do.
If I were mafia, I'd push for VT lynches. You would then think, "Oh, there's a strong push for X, he must be Chosen Town; let's not lynch X." Instead, you would lynch chosen townie Y, "Y is obviously either a VT or scum, because there have been no strong pushes against her." Did you forget that you're "intentionally NOT lynching those most likely to be Chosen"? So, as scum, I would do everything I could to make VTs "most likely to be Chosen," and you would lead the lynch on what you think is Vanilla/Mafia. I, as scum, sit back and let you lynch CTs and, since you are responsible for the lynch, I also let you sit back and take all the blame for lynching the CT.

^ he

^nice default-gender pronoun usage.

I might just be having an omgus reaction.

but i find his willingness to lynch me and HIMSELF over grey to be an attempt at covering.

especially if you look at grey's iso and see how scummy it is.

Hey Rc, remember in that one game where (beginners) i KNEW you were scum because you said "it's either lickdafoot or me, lynch lickdafoot" and i told you there was NO reason to tie us together in that situation unless you were scum? Isn't that reminiscent of what whiskers is doing here "lynch eido, then lynch me, don't lynch obvious scum"

she's even covering herself by saying im a vt not chosen, so it's okay if i'm lynched.

I'm not really "covering myself," it was an idea I had. Since mafia

needs

us to lynch a Chosen Townie in order to win, and we can't no-lynch, if we lynch only VTs then it comes down to, what two Chosen Townies and two Mafia, right? Town wins.

Now here's the problem with your comparison: I didn't try to "tie us together." I said, "Eido doesn't look like a CT. I don't look like a CT. In order to make Mafia endgame with CTs, what if we lynched Eido and me?"
Also, there is almost never "obvious scum." RC is constantly barfing out this phrase, and that's one of the reasons he is pretty not-credible. So far, RC has also been consistently wrong when using this phrase. There isn't an "obvious scum," Eido. But look: McStab is pushing on Greywing. I wrote a paragraph on scum-Greywing. You sheep Mcstab wherever he goes, in this case it's onto Greywing. RC said in his most recent post that he thought the scumteam was you and Greywing.
Who is left? Crypto, RGF, and Greywing himself.

Okay, I'm sorry.

Vote: RealGF

These players need to be fucked. Crypto hasn't ever even posted in thread, so his whole slot has been wasted and useless. If there are scum in the active players, we can't find them because we have flaker Crypto and piece of shit RGF lurking. I can't make any solid reads until these players are dead or replaced.

[Whiskers]

There isn't an "obvious scum," Eido. But look: McStab is pushing on Greywing. I wrote a paragraph on scum-Greywing. You sheep Mcstab wherever he goes, in this case it's onto Greywing. RC said in his most recent post that he thought the scumteam was you and Greywing.

Sorry: The conclusion to this is that we have either, 1; a unanimous scumread on a player, (not scum, scum would derail) or 2; he is a CT and scum is driving the wagon (or that he is a VT or CT and scum is off the wagon but not stopping it either).

The probelm I'm having is that if Greywing

IS

scum, and there's scum in flaker Crypto or lurker realgodfather, then there

wouldn't

be scum to derail the lynch. these players, Cyrpto and realdodfather, need to be fucked.

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, I read the last few posts. I'll comment is a bit. Whiskers, are you voting realGF because you think he is scum or VT? I'll respond to Eidolon in full.

Also, whiskers I am not shouting "obvious scum" at everyone that accuses me. Despite McStab being one of the proponents of my lynch until his last few posts, I withdrew my initial OMGUS accusation agaisnt him and flat out told grey that I suspect him and Eidolon more than McStab. Glad to see McStab came around. I was actually worried about getting to LYLO with McStab as town since he would allow scum to hammer. inb4, "buddying." I said McStab was likely town

before

he did an about turn on me.

Anyways, I'll post more detailed comments within the next hour. I really think we should lynch scum as opposed to VT's. I am down for a grey lynch. Like I said, I think he is scum.