Mini 1373 - Oh My! (Game Over)

[redtail896]

/confirm

[redtail896]

Guys, can you let me relish in the fact that my first post on MS is an RVS vote on Hibiki?

Thanks.

Wait, why are you relishing your vote on Hibiki? Do you know Hibiki?

[redtail896]

Vote: Crypto

Third vote on satire wagon, quickly jumps ship and votes petapan claiming a mastin tell, which he applies incorrectly anyway.

[redtail896]

Well I apologize that I don't have your highly developed sense of humor. Also, the game is only 90 minutes old; bit early for lurking accusations.

My vote stays right where it is.

[redtail896]

sarcastic apology followed with not understanding another joke followed with telling us that his vote is staying where it is ( a vote based on being third to vote and not understanding a joke)

Again, you're planning to lynch me based on my vote? Given what I had to go on, that was totally reasonable. He jumped on an early wagon, then made a bs random vote even among bs random votes. As for the lurking "joke"; at what point does a statement like that become an actual statement instead of a crappy joke? I took that post at its face value.

Preview edit: Well shit, I'm L-1. That was fast.

Claim: Jailkeeper

[redtail896]

HAMMER THIS

Not even a second thought that I might legitimately be a jailkeeper?

[redtail896]

It's nice to know how truly committed to this scumfinding business you are.

[redtail896]

HAMMER THIS

Not even a second thought that I might legitimately be a jailkeeper?

if u were do u think u'd be posting like this

Apparently yes I do.

[redtail896]

big fosings on redtail for not saying he is a TOWN jailer. possible scumslip, very very scummy to me

If I had claimed cop, I guarantee you wouldn't be saying this.

The word "town" is unnecessary. Of course I'm claiming town. Personally, I would find it more suspicious if I had felt the need to emphasize TOWN jailkeeper.

[redtail896]

My vote on redtail is unlikely to change though admittedly there is one other place I'd go (hint: it's Synaesthesia). The way he voted Crypto for a series of statements that were very clearly intended to be a joke seemed opportunistic, especially given that he doesn’t criticize the thin rationale of the others’ RVS votes. Seemed like scum trying to distort the words of a townie and capitalize on others’ potential misunderstanding. I also didn’t like his reaction to being put at L-1 or his claim. The way he reacted to Crypto and petapan afterwards seemed more like resigned scum than the kind of reaction I’d expect from real town PRs who would probably put up more of a fight.

I object to the phrase "very clearly intended as a joke." As I've stated multiple times, I didn't see it that way. The reaction to being at L-1 and the "resignedness" was more exasperation than anything; I was annoyed that a wagon on me had formed so quickly, with such a large portion of the town still not present. Hence the sarcasm and pithyness.

I really want to hear what redtail thinks of Crypto attempting to steer the wagon away from him and onto Synaesthesia. And I too also want to hear from the players who haven't spoken.

It's not clear to me that he was seriously attempting to steer the wagon. He unvoted me for all of three minutes and never really argued against synaesthesia (the furthest he got in that direction was noting that syn was trying to fit in).

As for other suspicions of mine: despite what I just said above, it is true that Syn's L-1 vote looks scummy, and I'm not sure I like projectmatt either. And add my voice to those looking to hear from those who have not joined us.

[redtail896]

Also, as an addendum to previous post: I would really appreciate not being at L-1 right now. You guys are allowing the possibility that somebody will quickhammer and allow 1/3 of the town to avoid having to speak today.

[redtail896]

@redtail: I'm really curious to hear what your read on petapan is as well seeing as you've primarily been focusing on Crypto and not the other player strongly advocating your lynch.

Reading petapan is difficult as it seems he's been feigning stupidity for most of the day. He seems to have said little of substance, and his suspicion of Hibiki solely because she decided not to jump on the wagon is obnoxious. I'll go with a strong unsure.

[redtail896]

Alright, I've had a night's sleep and calmed down a bit. Rereading this morning, here are my thoughts:

i would GLADLY go 1 for 1 here if scum decides to quickhammer

given that i explicitly stated i did not want a hammer you're going to have to try again

Petapan, what's up?

Deadjoker's logic is BS. I was clearly annoyed with the proceedings that put me at L-1 causing me to claim earlier than I should have (yes, I ****ed that up). If anything, that would suggest I was using my roleclaim to do precisely what he suggests: pull out the real PR; if that fails, I get saved. He then acquits me because I commented that I was exasperated. Smells scummy, trying to dodge having to place the hammer. Keep in mind, a hammer on me would've immediately brought the wrath of god down on the hammerer.

Projectmatt's hemming and hawing doesn't strike me nearly as suspicious as its timing. He expressed the thought that I might be town right after Hibiki started questioning it, perhaps preparing for a gradual lessening of the wagon and shift onto somebody else. Notably, he hasn't really expressed suspicion of anybody else, save a throwaway line about syn and petapan (hardly the most daring of thoughts).

Unvote. Vote: projectmatt

No word yet from: TuxedoMask, horrordude, RobertMontana

[redtail896]

actually, i think it's time:

unvote

vote: syan

Why?

[redtail896]

srs post: I'm willing to move over to Synaesthesia since he's another scum read o' mine if there's a high enough demand/he actually doesn't end up flaking on this game. Not really seeing where the townreads on redtail are coming from, his vote on projectmatt struck me more as a self-preservation move since that seemed to be the burgeoning counterwagon at the time and his case seemed weak and slightly hypocritical.

I concede hypocritical, but I object to weak.

I don't really see why the case against syn is any better than that against matt.

I retract all townreads on the charlatan denisatp

i was joshing

At what point is this excuse no longer valid?

[redtail896]

So, the syn wagon appears to be based on his L-1 vote followed by his conspicuous absence (then showing up to proclaim "I'm a newb"). Is there something else I'm missing? The absence is the largest problem; you would figure that when a bunch of pressure leaped onto him he would've started defending himself or explaining or some such. But I don't see a real compelling case there.

I'm not happy w/ RobertMontana's entry there. It feels like he jumped onto the popular wagon then immediately realized "oh ****, I jumped on the popular wagon."

I actually fully understand what deadjoker is saying: his logic is that jailkeepers are frequent enough in mini normals that, as I haven't been counterclaimed, odds are that I'm legit (this rests on the assumption that the real JK would counterclaim if s/he existed). Feel free to disagree, but don't pretend that he's talking complete nonsense.

[redtail896]

Peta knows who he is. Also, dave feels really awkward in this game and I'm not sure what to think of it.

Who is dave?

[redtail896]

The people who've expressed suspicion on projectmatt are doing so on hollow/non-existent logic imo.

Why do you think the logic behind the matt suspicion is so bad while continuing to harp on syn? The cases seem eerily similar, save syn has a lurking thing going on. Why focus on one and not the other?

[redtail896]

Sorry to hear about your computer troubles Matt.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sach

[redtail896]

silent votes dont count

His reasoning for unvoting matt might hold weight if matt had any chance of being lynched; as is it looks like an attempt to jump from an unpopular wagon to its more popular brethren. Add this to his general lack of saying anything substantial and convenient voting behavior.

[redtail896]

Also Sach: what is your opinion of the synaesthesia wagon?

[redtail896]

i dont see the town motivation in

soft

pushing someone who obviously aint getting lynched

I reject that Sach "obviously" isn't getting lynched. Votes are still spread out and we're still bickering over wagons. I wanted to highlight somebody whose actions have been scummy that I think isn't getting noticed.

[redtail896]

im going to vote deadjoker because he's scum and just as useless

As pointed out, both syn and Robert are being less helpful than deadjoker at the moment.

Robert: this is unhelpful in the extreme. How about a little elaboration?

Horror: still waiting on that post.

Hibiki: would you rather lynch syn or deadjoker? More precisely: why aren't you voting somebody?

[redtail896]

>.> This is fun. I still want to lynch dj today cause he is scum rather than the 1v1 thing ;_;

Why? You never gave a good reason why you want to lynch dj. And before you start citing the work of denis, you voted before he came out with his case.

Alright, this 1v1 thing is absurd. You've all decided to totally ignore the scumtells you've seen and pushed on others in favor of this petty and ridiculous argument. Denis, what happened to your dj conviction? Horrordude: all that and you just jump onto the Montana wagon?

Everybody voting on the Montana wagon: do you actually think Montana is scum?

Montana: please pull away from your tunnelvision and give us your thoughts on the game beyond petapan.

Hibiki: please vote.

[redtail896]

why the fuck do i have to vote, the only thing i can do is hammer robert

A. I want to know where you stand. You've done a remarkably good job of expressing and agreeing with lots of suspicion without committing yourself to a wagon.
B. It wouldn't be a hammer; he's L-2

[redtail896]

Horrordude: all that and you just jump onto the Montana wagon?

I already addressed this.

Apologies; I should've made myself clearer. You have this long post where you express suspicion at all this different things, most of which people have been talking about, and then you decide to run over to this Montana wagon because he's "useless"? That seems weird to me.

[redtail896]

We already have a lot of people jumping over to that ship. While I would absolutely love another lynch (Sach/Hibiki personally), it doesn't seem like we're going to get too many others to agree. I detest policy lynches, I really do. If Robert is lynched because of the fact that others find him scummy, that's one thing. But if it's only because he's been useless (Which he has, don't get me wrong), I'm not a fan of that. But again, others need to agree that another lynch needs to happen today first.

Well, you can help that movement by not voting for him. Today's lynch is far from set in stone.

Seriously, you detest policy lynches, but here you make an exception? You go along with this one because you think it will be impossible to get people to agree to anything else? And not only are you willing to go along with it, but you're actively supporting it, as opposed to people you think are actually scummy?

This whole post stinks. Absolutely stinks.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: horrordude0215

[redtail896]

nearly everything i said on those pages was a comedy post...

What is this in reference to?

Seriously guys? Not one look at the way people jumped on that ridiculous Montana wagon (which, by the way, was a godawful wagon that should never have made it to L-1 (what's that about satire?))? Not a word about horrordude's ridiculous logic for joining? Why has nobody commented on horrordude's reasoning besides me and Montana?

Somebody voting for me: please explain why you think I'm scummy.

[redtail896]

redtail what i see is you making a lot of complains about what other people are doing and what is a bad wagon and not much scum hunting

so yeah i'm happy with voting you

my compromise wagon atp is deadjoker if people don't want to sack up and lynch a claimed PR

horrordude is maybe but his crimes against humanity are less severe than either of you and i'm sure not sheeping redtail

You're right that I've been complaining overmuch and I apologize. However to say that I haven't been scumhunting is disingenuous.

horrordude - comes it with a long post expressing many suspicions, then jumps on the Montana wagon claiming "it doesn't seem like we're going to get too many others to agree." His actions were unsettling at the very least. I'd like more pressure on him to force him to explain.

With regards to the major wagons of the day: syn is the one I'd be happiest with, as I find his convenient voting then lurking much scummier than joker.

[redtail896]

I targeted denisatp.

I'll have analysis tomorrow, but I also want to see who robert targeted.

[redtail896]

I'm good with a massclaim.

[redtail896]

Coron: since all but 2 have claimed, I think we should finish the massclaim.

I have much more to say when that is done.

[redtail896]

Coron: since all but 2 have claimed, I think we should finish the massclaim.

I... don't see what that is true?

On further reflection I see your reasoning, but...

If there are other town PRs, we have them narrowed down to 3 people. At this point, I think the marginal benefit of that one investigative result is worth the loss of the potential cop, especially since we've downed one scum and stopped an NK. Because that's what it comes down to: we've already narrowed the potential PR set to 3 people, for both us and them (yes, I'm arguing it's a sunk cost; all econ majors can now proceed to eviscerate me).

On a different note, the number of town PR claims has a direct effect on my opinion of RobertMontana.

[redtail896]

Apparently, a roleblocker's action would overrule mine.

[redtail896]

Also yes, I did consider that based on # of power role claims we could get reads on you and Robert...Also I see no reason to lynch out of the redtail/Robert duo today so we don't really need information about other power roles right now.

Are we finishing the massclaim? I have a lot to say in response to this, and I won't as long as this massclaim is ongoing.

[redtail896]

vote: TuxedoMask

I think I misunderstood your previous post.

When you said:

Also I see no reason to lynch out of the redtail/Robert duo today so we don't really need information about other power roles right now.

did you mean you saw no reason to lynch one of us, or that you saw no reason to lynch anybody except one of us?

[redtail896]

VOTE: TuxedoMask based both on RobertMontana's roleblock and Tuxedo's voting history. Once you look at the votecounts, you realize that despite all his bluster and scumreads, he only voted twice: once early on Syn (which resulted in a very quick unvote), and a godawful vote on RobertMontana.

Satire: if you believe I'm scum, then you believe Robert is town, and should be voting for Tuxedo.

[redtail896]

unvote

Why?

[redtail896]

UNVOTE:
I wasn't really trying to egg you on satire; I was trying to understand your thought process. No kill happened last night, so either you believe one of the lurkers is a PR that stopped the kill or you believe Robert roleblocked scum.

BTW: I still fully support and intend to vote for a tuxedo lynch, but I agree that we should hear from the last couple of people.

[redtail896]

mmm

if tuxedo flips scum, what if we put redtail on robert?
if redtail is scum then robert cant die, if redtail kills a blue robert is clear and if redtail is town robert is kept alive + cleared since scum will inevitably kill. if robert is scum then busted. if redtail dies then that's good because it means we don't waste a mislynch on him, leaving robert clear and another roleblock to go.

that's what i have so far. i essentially don't want robert to die in redtail's place

My issue with this plan is that robert and I avoiding each other gives us the maximum chance to block the scumkill.

[redtail896]

Also, I don't want my night action dictated by town; I think that helps scum far more than it helps us, especially if we fail to lynch scum today.

Preview edit: for the record, we can't tell that anyway. For example, I actually consider it decently likely that there was a no kill because scum targeted denis.

[redtail896]

Gotcha. Fine, if we lynch scum I'll accept the dictate.

[redtail896]

@Hibiki: which is why I backed off. That being said, tuxedo is clearly the lynch for today, especially if you think I'm scum.

[redtail896]

@Tuxedo: The problem is that while you talked a lot about suspicious activity and who was in your scumpool, you never actually put your money where your mouth was and voted. You jumped off the syn wagon very quickly and then continued to abstain; when you finally put down another vote, it was on RobertMontana, who was never seriously in your scumpool and which was a godawful wagon yesterday. Also, you were roleblocked (see below for further analysis on this front).

@RobertMontana: I do not think you're scum, although I'm open to the possiblity.

Part of the reason I was in favor of the massclaim is that it has revealed broadly how many PRs there are. If I assume that you're scum, then that means that we have a relatively weak town (or, by sheer luck, multiple power roles were condensed into a small cadre of lurkers). In addition, if you were scum, I don't think that fakeclaim would've gained you much. It's conceivable that we do have just such a weak town or that there are more powerroles than I suspect, but for now I'm operating as if you were town.

Now, we know that there was no kill, so there are three possibilities:
A. TuxedoMask made the kill and RobertMontana roleblocked her.
B. denisatp made the kill and I roleblocked him.
C. The mafia tried to kill denisatp and I saved him.

Of the three, I actually think C is the most likely, but A has a good chance and I think Tuxedo is scummy for separate reasons, so I'm very happy with a Tuxedo lynch.

As a final note, if you think I'm scum, then you probably think RobertMontana is town, in which case you should certainly want to lynch Tuxedo.

[redtail896]

As an addendum, there is a fourth possibility:
D. No kill because of some other PR having an impact.

I've been kind of ignoring this until I have evidence that there's another protective role, but it merits mentioning.

[redtail896]

I don't even understand remotely what joke I missed.

Welcome to my world.

dude, when we have all the claims, then we can discuss the thing you want to discuss.

after the fucking claims.

This is why I wish we had finished the mass claim.

Are we still waiting for horrordude?

[redtail896]

just fucking hammer pj jesus christ

the day's been dragged out long enough

I'm willing to hammer; but I don't want to end the day without horrordude saying anything.

[redtail896]

I'm willing to hammer; but I don't want to end the day without horrordude saying anything.

[redtail896]

Hi Empking. It's been 48 hours since you said horrordude responded via PM to a prod. I would like to formally request that you prod him again.

[redtail896]

Fantastic. Thanks.

[redtail896]

We're not flaking; we're waiting for the replacement.

[redtail896]

Nice job Robert.

VOTE: Baldanders

[redtail896]

OOC empking, why didn't you just call my role JK?

gg all.

[redtail896]

because your role didn't actually protect against mafia kills, if he called it a jailkeeper it would have been bastardly

gonna be honest if you had claimed silver mine owner i'd probably never have doubted you but w/e water under the bridge right? fun game.

I assumed "cannot be targeted by the night actions of wolves" meant protection. Sorry about that. And it was a fun game.

[redtail896]

*sigh*

Well, I screwed that up. Sorry.