Mini 1368 (Game Over)

[killerjester]

No, but close. You're scum for being on a wagon that wasn't going anywhere, and literally doing nothing at all while Hellhound was lynched.

A town player might've actually shown concern if they saw a townread of theirs getting lynched! They might engage with the other players, try to start a viable counter-wagon, push for a lynch of a player they're hoping will flip scum. You did nothing of the sort. You didn't even have the conviction to declare him a townread. IIRC, instead of giving a definitive read on him you simply stated the cases on him were bad cases.

Distancing scum, on the other hand, would park their vote off the wagon, cite some half-assed reasoning, and call it a day. Afterall, why should they try to prevent a town from being lynched?

[Lupo]

So by me saying why each case was bad (a few times actually), I wasn't engaging?

Also, by me voting for someone else and stating why I wasn't starting a counter-wagon?

Also, me going against his case showed I had a town read on him. I didn't figure that the players would be so stupid to not understand that just because I don't exactly say "he's town."

Your argument is invalid. Try again.

[killerjester]

The NS wagon was clearly going nowhere.

In #185 you explicitly stated you were

not

defending Hellhound, and instead you were merely commenting about the cases on him. "Clearing up" things with KK, and finding particular points of PoPP and triangle "odd".

Scum team of Hellhound and Lupo very likely. Post #51 and #113 has him defending Hellhound with a kind of flavour that suggests scumbuddies (ie. little incentive and unclear motive for doing so), and #94 is a bit of conversational fluff between the two with a similar scummy flavour.

As for HellHound #51 & #113 are more of me challenging the other person for a read I disagree with. KK seemed to not understand the vote that I did, so I tried to clear it up. Pap and Triangle said he was scummy for FOSing FUT and CD when he pointed them out for buddying. even though those were his only reads most people at the time only had those reads so I found it odd that they were both going at him.

And no, you were not even close to being considered active or engaging. Don't try to kid yourself otherwise.

[Paschendale]

No, but close. You're scum for being on a wagon that wasn't going anywhere

Not scummy, lots of people were on the NS wagon. Not finding a better one isn't scummy.

and literally doing nothing at all while Hellhound was lynched.

Neither is not trying to stop the popular wagon if you disagree with it. People are allowed to form their opinions slowly and don't have to play at your pace.

A town player might've actually shown concern if they saw a townread of theirs getting lynched!

Says you. That presumes a strong read with the means to back it up.

They might engage with the other players

Some people are quiet. Chill. Though Lupo did say that he didn't agree with it.

try to start a viable counter-wagon

If he suspects one.

push for a lynch of a player they're hoping will flip scum.

If he had another suspect.

You did nothing of the sort. You didn't even have the conviction to declare him a townread.

Cuz maybe Lupo didn't have a strong townread on him. Weak reads happen in this game. A lot. Do you have a strong townread on every player except for the two you think are scum and you'll go nuts trying to defend them? No. Not every action in this game comes from burning conviction. I'd think you would know that.

IIRC, instead of giving a definitive read on him you simply stated the cases on him were bad cases.

If you recall? Why didn't you go and look. He only has 23 posts. But here's another example. I'm not willing to give a definite read on Lupo. I think he's towny, but I don't know. But your case against him is manufactured nonsense. It's all "town would do this" and "town would do that". Your entire case is that he's not as active as you'd like. Yeah, being absent from a bit of the end of day 1 is weird... but that alone is not suspicious, and the other things you cite are sheer nonsense.

Let's talk about active lurking, though. You popped in and asked a lot of fluffy questions so it looked like you were scumhunting... but then you didn't work with any of the answers you were given. You tunneled Lupo from the start and didn't offer a single opinion until you sheeped KK's argument and spat it out at me. And it was ridiculously weak, and based off of 1) the very reasonable criticism of a L-1 vote without sufficient reason, and 2) asking for a claim from someone already at L-1. Those are both town things to do. Do you really have any idea how town and scum act?

And I think we all know which team has more incentive to skim over crucial L-1 votes.

I guess not, because NO ONE has any "incentive" to skip reading stuff and play specifically more passively. Scum and town play active or passive interchangeably.

You have been jumping on the least useful posts and claiming that they're huge giveaways, like Pie's question to the mod. It was incredibly innocuous and spoke more of just being polite to someone subbing in than anything else. But you had to go and make a big deal out of it. That's your play here. Making big deals out of nothing. You've posted nothing of any merit, and you're pretty clearly trying to lead town to lynch for astoundingly bad reasons.

This has been bugging me for a while, but I couldn't articulate it quite so well until now. Killerjester is WAY scum. Scummier even than BBStar.

Unvote
Vote: Killerjester

[killerjester]

On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most scummy, where would you place Lupo?

[Paschendale]

5 or 6 at most. You? 10.

[killerjester]

Hm..

Which part of my argument in #206 felt like it was sheeping KK? Can you point out where KK expressed a similar view?

[Kublai Khan]

I need to re-read this game.

VOTE: Nobody Special

He needs to post a list of reads in the next 24 hours.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I fully endorse a jester wagon.

VOTE: killerjester

[Melmond]

So go ahead say I'm scum for not posting and saying a few words. I remember back in the days when that was exactly what caught them.
And go ahead lynch me, it was good to do a duty to my town as a vanilla townie.
So HA-HA. Here's the bad part about being VT:
"Scum always claim Vanilla Townie, that just proves it."
So what am I supposed to say? Roleclaim PR? "Don't lynch me?"
No, you wouldn't believe me. This was fun while it lasted. Enjoy Lylo.Infected!

What an abomination of a post. A good townie should never give up, and you're at fucking L-4.

I'm getting mixed feelings about Paschendales latest posts. I agree with some of it, but some of just seems like total crap. I'll get to that in a bit.

I fully endorse a jester wagon.

Why?

[ChaosOmega]

Vote Count 2.01

Lupo (2) - pappums rat, killerjester
basketballstar24 (2) - Cheery Dog, Melmond
killerjester (2) - Paschendale, pieceofpecanpie
Nobody Special (1) - Kublai Khan

Not Voting (5) - Nobody Special, Lupo, basketballstar24, triangle123, Idiotking

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

~12 days and 6.5 hours

[Cheery Dog]

5 or 6 at most. You? 10.

5/6 sounds more extremely null than it should be if you find Lupo towny.

[Melmond]

I'm getting mixed feelings about Paschendales latest posts. I agree with some of it, but some of just seems like total crap. I'll get to that in a bit.

Mostly what seems like crap to me is some of the stuff you say to defend Lupo. I do think that lupo should have pushed a different way if he really thought the HH lynch was such a bad idea. The thoughts you had on Killerjester aren't bad though. You made a good case.

[Paschendale]

I'm getting mixed feelings about Paschendales latest posts. I agree with some of it, but some of just seems like total crap. I'll get to that in a bit.

Mostly what seems like crap to me is some of the stuff you say to defend Lupo. I do think that lupo should have pushed a different way if he really thought the HH lynch was such a bad idea. The thoughts you had on Killerjester aren't bad though. You made a good case.

I basically have a null read on Lupo. But KJ made so many unfounded assumptions that it got my ire up. I was addressing his awful attacks, not really trying to defend Lupo. It was the idiocy of KJ's assumptions that I was trying to point out. Plus the argument of "if you were town, you wold have done ____" is a really stupid one. That assumes some kind of rote play by town, which everyone knows is not how this game works.

[killerjester]

Would like my question answered.

[basketballstar24]

So go ahead say I'm scum for not posting and saying a few words. I remember back in the days when that was exactly what caught them.
And go ahead lynch me, it was good to do a duty to my town as a vanilla townie.
So HA-HA. Here's the bad part about being VT:
"Scum always claim Vanilla Townie, that just proves it."
So what am I supposed to say? Roleclaim PR? "Don't lynch me?"
No, you wouldn't believe me. This was fun while it lasted. Enjoy Lylo.Infected!

What an abomination of a post. A good townie should never give up, and you're at fucking L-4.

Hmm? I'm not lynched? I thought those votes would bandwagon, so I put this bah post knowing that I would get lynched before I went on again. KK, here are my reads:

Melmond

: Null-Town, I can't really read through his post right now. However, his last posts seem like he's town.

Paschendale

: Wow. Latest post he just JUMPED onto killerjester. Before, he was silent, and he didn't really get involved and create a huge suspicion on one player, but then now killerjester. For that, Null. Explain why NOW you jump on killerjester when you said he started at Day 1.

Killerjester

: Null-Town, he sounds bold enough, probably VT. He does scumreads (though Paschendale thinks they're crap) and from Day 1, he was useful and supported. However, if Lupo got engaged with Hellhound's wagon and convinced that he was town, there is a chance (if you don't word it correctly and I think strongly) that it is a scum move, looking like you're protecting your partner. I believe that Lupo couldn't get a huge wagon on who he thought was scum (like what Cheery Dog said for me).

Lupo

:

So by me saying why each case was bad (a few times actually), I wasn't engaging?

Also, by me voting for someone else and stating why I wasn't starting a counter-wagon?

Also, me going against his case showed I had a town read on him. I didn't figure that the players would be so stupid to not understand that just because I don't exactly say "he's town."

Your argument is invalid. Try again.

The last sentence is what I would do if I was jester. I don't know about Lupo, though I think town since Hellhound turned out to be vig.

pappumsrat

: I don't see him doing reads, not involved from the last 16 or so pages. PR, third party, scum.

More coming later.

[Idiotking]

I can see Paschendale's argument about killerjester rehashing what KK said about Lupo (in KK's ISO posts 114 - 136 he argues his case with Lupo, predating killerjester's 206 and going over much of the same material), but something about Paschendale's 378 screams buddying to me. Maybe it's because the whole thing is dedicated to getting killerjester off of Lupo's back, I dunno.

Also,

Vote basketballstar24

I hate, HATE appeals to emotion. If you are actually vanilla town, replace out or stop being useless.

Hmm? I'm not lynched? I thought those votes would bandwagon, so I put this bah post knowing that I would get lynched before I went on again.

What the hell even is this?

[Cheery Dog]

You're not lynched yet as there is no purpose to ending this day this early without possibly being able to find your buddies or give you the chance to prove you're not scum.

There is no productive purpose to quicklynching someone less than 2 days into a new Day.

I personally need to actually update some of my reads and I can't do that if we lynch someone hereandnow.

[killerjester]

Guise, I'm honestly not seeing where KK and myself covered the same material. KK found Lupo scummy for his involvement in the Cheery wagon, with the claim request et al. I found him scummy for voting NS.

Please explain where you see the sheeping/rehashing. Paschendale first, then Idiotking.

[Paschendale]

I can see Paschendale's argument about killerjester rehashing what KK said about Lupo (in KK's ISO posts 114 - 136 he argues his case with Lupo, predating killerjester's 206 and going over much of the same material), but something about Paschendale's 378 screams buddying to me. Maybe it's because the whole thing is dedicated to getting killerjester off of Lupo's back, I dunno.

I know it looks that way, but it was just the shoddy awful points against Lupo that set me off. I'll again say that I have a null read on Lupo.

[Cheery Dog]

so reads (in alphabetical order)
Basketballstar24: Scum. The whole hellhound mislynch thing and threat to happen after the replacement had been found. Also his lastest two posts look like someone who has been busted. Also bringing jesters - which we know can't exist in normals - back into the discussion.
IdiotKing: Leaning Scum. Reasons for wanting hellhound lynched were "I hate people that go with the flow."
Killerjester: Null. Predecessor buddying up to town in trouble (me), though I'm seeing killerjester himself as leaning town.
Kublai Klan: Leaning Town.
Lupo: Leaning Town.
Melmond: Leaning Scum. I don't trust people who have their top scum as someone they don't want to be voting for: possible bbstar buddying.
Nobody Special: Leaning Scum. Lurking at the start of Day 1, Active lurking at the end of Day 1, didn't really give us much input.
Pappums rat: Leaning Town.
Paschendale: Leaning Town.
Pieceofpecanpie: Leaning Town. I can actually see town motivation behind this confirmed town claims now, yesterday i was reading them as they were and not why they were there.
Triangle123: Town.

[Kublai Khan]

@mod- Please prod Nobody Special. He has yet to post Today.

@other players - Please vote Nobody Special. He can't let him get away with such blatant lurking in a mini with 2 week deadlines.

[Kublai Khan]

[double post]

[ChaosOmega]

Prodding Nobody Special

[Melmond]

@other players - Please vote Nobody Special. He can't let him get away with such blatant lurking in a mini with 2 week deadlines.

I'm kinda just hoping he gets replaced. I don't think he'll stop lurking if we vote him.