Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[pirate mollie]

Uhh, ok. Perhaps you want scum to know exactly what it is that you're thinking? If you're outing all your reads as to who is town as well as scum,

you are giving scum exactly what they need in order to shift their gameplay to act more like those who you consider town, blend in,

and be more successful in forcing mislynches

while going along unnoticed

.

and you think that would not be noticed? lol

also "blend in"

Whereas, if you focus on finding scumtells from players, and highlight those instead of all the towntells that you and everyone else may have, then scum isn't at liberty to just start acting like the guy you and say, four others, designate as Town. They have to figure it out for themselves,

which means they're more likely to shift their tone or shift their thought processes or make ridiculous leaps in logic in order to try to appear town

.

scum usually do this regardless if you say who your town reads are or not. that is what makes them look scummy.

it has been my experience that voicing your town reads closes scum's options for later in the game doing a 180 on a player. note what I previously bolded. not to mention that when town starts to come together scum will usually fall apart.

Simply put: Point out that the "Bad guys" are "bad" by finding evidence against them, and voting for them/FOS'ing them (if more than one is evident). It's hard for bad guys to blend in when you're not pointing out why the "good guys" are "good". Just keep those thoughts to yourself. If it's that obvious to you, it's likely obvious to other players as well.

again "blend in"

I think I've seen enough that I have a few suspicions as to who I believe is town, and who I believe is scum.

As for me thoughts on you and Mae being town? Let me restate what I've already said, in more of a little chart.

Who I will openly declare that I think is scum:
Telo (for #88 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4323911 and #93 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php? )p=4324085#p4324085
EvilPacman (for #78 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4323297

Who I used as a form of a scapegoat, to find scum:
PMysterious

Who I think is town:
None of your business.

lol, have you ever tried triangulating with/or as a scum? the exchanges stand out like a bruise.

lists always help I think cos players are accountable for their changes later in the game. as in they have to make sense. it helps with scumhunting.

[pirate mollie]

oops messed up the quote tag. "I think I've seen enough..." is where eleison started.

[pirate mollie]

Who I think is town:
None of your business.

Once I'm done with theo, your buddy, you're next. Then Pirate and then Russian Roulette.

Everyone loves games, so let's play that one after the hard work is done.

hey there was a question for you!!! xx

does it not look like maenara did an OMGUS revenge vote yes or no

[mykonian]

votecount

PMysterious (3): mcstab, eleison, smashbard
evilpacman (2): jun, theomoaner
maenara (1): pirate mollie
mcstab (1): shinori
telo (1): dividizzle
theomoaner (1): Hiraki
pirate mollie (1): maenara
jun (1): Telo

not voting (5): evilpacman, thurhame, thermal, NJAC, pmysterious

[Hiraki]

No?

[Shinori]

This is effort.

I'll read stuff and post something later tonight.

[dividizzle]

I'm not convinced by Eleison's plan either. @Eleison, you say you don't want to reveal your town reads but you also tell Mae and Mollie to stop intown bickering. Does that imply that you have a town read on them both?

[Eleison]

I'm not convinced by Eleison's plan either. @Eleison, you say you don't want to reveal your town reads but you also tell Mae and Mollie to stop intown bickering. Does that imply that you have a town read on them both?

I don't necesarrily have a town read on them. I just want them to stop bickering as if they were. Because I really don't see it actually moving anything forward.

[evilpacman18]

oh I just realized theomoaner is scummy. ...

Did you just "realize" this or were you told to vote this way by your scumbbudies in your QT?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: EvilPacMan18

It's not like you just noticed my post that yo "just realised" is quite scummy as it features quite prominently in your post 59

This is now a serious vote. You can analyze it anyway you like.

The vote count made me go back and check out all the votes on PM. Yours is the worst.

Hey guys, I'mma leave my vote on evilpacman18 because he has FOS'ed many times yet has refused to vote. Maybe if we get enough votes on him he'll be forced to vote someone and actually do something. EPM put your money where your mouth is. Not voting, I have learned, is scum trying to avoid making a stand.

VOTE: evilpacman18

Why haven't you decided to vote yet?

The game I linked is the exception, not the rule. I never RVS vote and I'm always conservative with my votes.

[pirate mollie]

I'm not convinced by Eleison's plan either. @Eleison, you say you don't want to reveal your town reads but you also tell Mae and Mollie to stop intown bickering. Does that imply that you have a town read on them both?

I don't necesarrily have a town read on them. I just want them to stop bickering as if they were. Because I really don't see it actually moving anything forward.

wait a minute, I placed a vote on maenara how is that not moving the game forward

[pirate mollie]

No?

is this based on meta or wishful thinking

[Eleison]

I'm not convinced by Eleison's plan either. @Eleison, you say you don't want to reveal your town reads but you also tell Mae and Mollie to stop intown bickering. Does that imply that you have a town read on them both?

I don't necesarrily have a town read on them. I just want them to stop bickering as if they were. Because I really don't see it actually moving anything forward.

wait a minute, I placed a vote on maenara how is that not moving the game forward

Tell me though, how is that helping to scumhunt?



Ok. Reread things. I've got some things to address.

This is effort.

I'll read stuff and post something later tonight.

UNVOTE
VOTE SHINORI

What are your thoughts so far?

[Jun]

I still think it's scummy that evilpacman18 called me scummy for not voting a FOS and then he doesn't vote me. It's just not internally consistent with his claimed style of play. Regardless of anything else in other games. Doesn't anyone besides me and theomoner see this?

Also, welcome Thurhame. This seems more like Newbie1269 by the minute.

[pirate mollie]

I'm not convinced by Eleison's plan either. @Eleison, you say you don't want to reveal your town reads but you also tell Mae and Mollie to stop intown bickering. Does that imply that you have a town read on them both?

I don't necesarrily have a town read on them. I just want them to stop bickering as if they were. Because I really don't see it actually moving anything forward.

wait a minute, I placed a vote on maenara how is that not moving the game forward

Tell me though, how is that helping to scumhunt?

maybe you coud start by expaining why placing a vote on a player you find scummy is not scumhunting?

I am genuinely confused by this.

[Eleison]

I'm not convinced by Eleison's plan either. @Eleison, you say you don't want to reveal your town reads but you also tell Mae and Mollie to stop intown bickering. Does that imply that you have a town read on them both?

I don't necesarrily have a town read on them. I just want them to stop bickering as if they were. Because I really don't see it actually moving anything forward.

wait a minute, I placed a vote on maenara how is that not moving the game forward

Tell me though, how is that helping to scumhunt?

maybe you coud start by expaining why placing a vote on a player you find scummy is not scumhunting?

I am genuinely confused by this.

There are lots of reasons people vote for other people. People don't always vote just because they feel someone is scummy. Sometimes people's emotions get in the way, and they vote for another player simply because they aren't happy with X or Y at that given moment, or because of a "hunch".

However, you just answered my question within your question. I just wanted clarification is all.

[evilpacman18]

Who I think is town:
None of your business.

Once I'm done with theo, your buddy, you're next. Then Pirate and then Russian Roulette.

Everyone loves games, so let's play that one after the hard work is done.

This is a fine enough plan. Not sure about pirate.

vote: theomoaner

[evilpacman18]

Jun tell me.

Why is it so important to you that I vote immediately?

[Jun]

Jun tell me.

Why is it so important to you that I vote immediately?

Tbh I just wanted to see how you'd react just because it did strike me as mildly scummy to call someone out for not voting a FOS and then not vote your FOS yourself. I dunno, your response strikes me as townish.

UNVOTE: evilpacman18
VOTE: theomoaner

He seems the scummiest to me so far for engaging in rather 'meh' scumhunting.

[Thurhame]

Hello all! Sorry about the delay; I wound up replacing into two games at the same time and had / still have a lot to catch up on.

From what I've read so far, the theomoaner wagon seems a good place for my vote.
VOTE: theomoaner

[theomoaner]

...engaging in rather 'meh' scumhunting.

Lolz, definitely scum found. Tunneling EPM then jumping to the first available "acceptable because hikari gave us permission to find it acceptable" wagon. Guaranteed scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jun

[evilpacman18]

Jun tell me.

Why is it so important to you that I vote immediately?

Tbh I just wanted to see how you'd react just because it did strike me as mildly scummy to call someone out for not voting a FOS and then not vote your FOS yourself. I dunno, your response strikes me as townish.

UNVOTE: evilpacman18
VOTE: theomoaner

He seems the scummiest to me so far for engaging in rather 'meh' scumhunting.

I wasn't calling you out for not voting the one person you'd called scummy. I was calling you out for calling someone scummy and then voting someone randomly. Also my response strikes you as townish? I gave you one factual sentence, it would've still been true if I was scum. Not to mention, you're being stupidly opportunistic. Literally this same page you just backhandedly complimented theomoaner's scumhunting for being the only other person that can see I'm being scummy, according to you. Now you're hopping on his wagon because his scumhunting is "meh?"

NO.

unvote

the theomoaner wagon is a red herring anyway, it's already gaining traction too quickly. I'm gonna wanna lynch Jun.

[Thurhame]

Lolz, definitely scum found. Tunneling EPM then jumping to the first available "acceptable because hikari gave us permission to find it acceptable" wagon. Guaranteed scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jun

I don't know who Hiraki (please try to avoid misspelling names) is, and I don't know what he has to do with permission or Jun's vote.
I do know OMGUS is scummy.

Wagon the Scum, people.

[theomoaner]

I do know OMGUS is scummy.

Oh, really. Did you miss the part where he jumped wagon from a non-starter to "wagon of the day" on an obvious pretext. Which is Scummiest, OMGUS (in your opinion that is) or wishy-washy opportunistic wagon jumping?

If it was about not vote then there are others not voting yet. That doesn't fit then.
How about 'meh' scumhunting? Really? No honestly? Go on ISO Jun and show me one post that is anything more than 'meh' scumhunting, not to mention some others around here.

I nearly always laugh when someone mentions OMGUS because more often than not the vote is deserved.

Wagon the Scum, people.

Good advice, try and stick to it.

[Jun]

Jun tell me.

Why is it so important to you that I vote immediately?

Tbh I just wanted to see how you'd react just because it did strike me as mildly scummy to call someone out for not voting a FOS and then not vote your FOS yourself. I dunno, your response strikes me as townish.

UNVOTE: evilpacman18
VOTE: theomoaner

He seems the scummiest to me so far for engaging in rather 'meh' scumhunting.

I wasn't calling you out for not voting the one person you'd called scummy. I was calling you out for calling someone scummy and then voting someone randomly. Also my response strikes you as townish? I gave you one factual sentence, it would've still been true if I was scum. Not to mention, you're being stupidly opportunistic. Literally this same page you just backhandedly complimented theomoaner's scumhunting for being the only other person that can see I'm being scummy, according to you. Now you're hopping on his wagon because his scumhunting is "meh?"

NO.

unvote

the theomoaner wagon is a red herring anyway, it's already gaining traction too quickly. I'm gonna wanna lynch Jun.

Your responses strike me as townish because I learned this from Thor665:

gh, he's been lower on my scumdar simply because it's not that common for scum to totally avoid voting - usually newbie scum are willing to bend to my demands of being aggressive easier. NJAC's near inability to take any stance feels potentially just newb townish. Also, Jun/Anach's "case" on NJAC/Code_X as a scumpair reads to me more like a case of how they *aren't* a scum pair.

I thought it was anti town of you not to vote to help people get out of RVS. And while I don't know if you are new or not new, Thor's argument that newbie scum is "willing to bend to demands to be aggressive earlier" stuck with me. My intent was to pressure you to vote and to see if you would feel pressured to vote someone and bend to my demands in order to avert suspicion. You did vote, but you did so in a way that didn't seem like scum trying to throw out a frantic vote in order to appease me. It seemed like you had a real process to your reasoning by analyzing the people on PMysterious, and I liked that. That's why your vote seemed town to me.

I'll have to watch more of your reactions in order to see how things pan out.

[Jun]

Granted, I'm not Thor665 so I have way less of an intimidation factor, but I wanted to try this technique anyway.