Mini 1368 (Game Over)

[basketballstar24]

What alt? What's alt?

[basketballstar24]

@NS, I wouldn't be talking.

[pieceofpecanpie]

You're essentially lining up lynches while trying to seem uninvolved with them. So it's individually scummy.

Funny, that sounds like your game. Sprinkle a little suspicion here and there, get wagons rolling.

I'm happy with my vote and it's staying. Do you want to see Lupo lynched or not?

@BBStar Not talking is what NS is doing most of the time, what do you want from him? And why try and justify an OMGUS vote through me?

@NS Pressure? On BBStar? The guy claimed VT before you got anywhere near him. How are you applying pressure when he's already been singing like a canary? Who are your scumsuspects?

[killerjester]

Funny, that sounds like your game. Sprinkle a little suspicion here and there, get wagons rolling.

Tu quoque is not a valid defense for what you are doing. Aside from your logical fallacy, where do you actually see me lining up lynches?

Do you want to see Lupo lynched or not?

This is the kind of question that bugs me. It assumes that because I find Lupo scummy, I can't question the opinion of players who want to lynch Lupo as well. Quite frankly, I don't know your role. I

should

be skeptical of your motives. If I feel that you're trying to get away with a half-assed policy lynch I'm going to call you out for it.

[Cheery Dog]

@CheeryDog, I said I would do that later. But I kind of gave up because you guys said my reads sucked

When/where?
We made have ignored them to a certain extent, but that doesn't mean they suck.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Funny, that sounds like your game. Sprinkle a little suspicion here and there, get wagons rolling.

Tu quoque is not a valid defense for what you are doing.

The thing is I'm not clamming up and calling you a hypocrite to shut you up. You misinterpreted my response, I found it funny because I fail to see how I'm playing uninvolved or lining up lynches, but it does bare a semblance of truth to your game.

Aside from your logical fallacy, where do you actually see me lining up lynches?

For example, at various times you gave a Hellhound lynch your blessing, yet kept distant from it by focusing on Lupo.

There was at minimum one scum on the Cheery wagon. Hellhound and pappums are two names that keep coming up as I read through, so at the present I'm considering the chances of scum within these two.

Unless Hellhound literally hangs himself in his next post, I'd be more comfortable with a Lupo lynch today.

Clearly if I wait for Hellhound the end will end without me voting for anyone.

VOTE: Lupo

But I would appreciate some prods.

If it comes down to the wire - within a few hours of the deadline - I'll hammer Hellhound as he is my #2 lynch.

Lupo lynch > bbstar lynch > Hellhound lynch.

And that's not even bringing the various flames of suspicion and WIFOM you've kept alive on me into it. See I have every reason to believe that if Cheery Dog or pappums rat had pursued me further with votes I'd be sure to find you in the background, handing out blessings to a wagon on me.

See how you slotted BBStar into the mix near the end of Day 1 and the beginning of Day 2? What that does is give you justification to support a wagon on him,

"Hey I've had my reasons to doubt that guy, here let me reference a few of my posts"

. You did the same to Lupo, drummed up some suspicion, concertina'd it back and forth and then finally put a vote down. Crucially you kept other people, like Hellhound, in the mix so your vote remains very flexible, it never leads and has to get wedged in place.

You're

the one that's been keeping distant and

you're

the one lining up lynches. I'm wondering where that motivation is coming from.

Do you want to see Lupo lynched or not?

This is the kind of question that bugs me. It assumes that because I find Lupo scummy, I can't question the opinion of players who want to lynch Lupo as well. Quite frankly, I don't know your role. I

should

be skeptical of your motives. If I feel that you're trying to get away with a half-assed policy lynch I'm going to call you out for it.

I want to see Lupo lynched, but you're missing the bigger picture if you think it's just policy. I brought this up in my #448. There's some policy in there, there's also anti-town and scummy sentiments in the mix. But the bigger picture is Lupo's flip is a melting pot of information waiting to be unleashed.

I

am

skeptical of your motives, I am questioning why you want to see Lupo lynched. There's no half-assed policy to it, it's about information. Is Lupo one scummy player, or is he a key to revealing scum?

[basketballstar24]

So go ahead say I'm scum for not posting and saying a few words. I remember back in the days when that was exactly what caught them.
And go ahead lynch me, it was good to do a duty to my town as a vanilla townie.
So HA-HA. Here's the bad part about being VT:
"Scum always claim Vanilla Townie, that just proves it."
So what am I supposed to say? Roleclaim PR? "Don't lynch me?"
No, you wouldn't believe me. This was fun while it lasted. Enjoy Lylo.Infected!

What an abomination of a post. A good townie should never give up, and you're at fucking L-4.

Hmm? I'm not lynched? I thought those votes would bandwagon, so I put this bah post knowing that I would get lynched before I went on again. KK, here are my reads:

Melmond

: Null-Town, I can't really read through his post right now. However, his last posts seem like he's town.

Paschendale

: Wow. Latest post he just JUMPED onto killerjester. Before, he was silent, and he didn't really get involved and create a huge suspicion on one player, but then now killerjester. For that, Null. Explain why NOW you jump on killerjester when you said he started at Day 1.

Killerjester

: Null-Town, he sounds bold enough, probably VT. He does scumreads (though Paschendale thinks they're crap) and from Day 1, he was useful and supported. However, if Lupo got engaged with Hellhound's wagon and convinced that he was town, there is a chance (if you don't word it correctly and I think strongly) that it is a scum move, looking like you're protecting your partner. I believe that Lupo couldn't get a huge wagon on who he thought was scum (like what Cheery Dog said for me).

Lupo

:

So by me saying why each case was bad (a few times actually), I wasn't engaging?

Also, by me voting for someone else and stating why I wasn't starting a counter-wagon?

Also, me going against his case showed I had a town read on him. I didn't figure that the players would be so stupid to not understand that just because I don't exactly say "he's town."

Your argument is invalid. Try again.

The last sentence is what I would do if I was jester. I don't know about Lupo, though I think town since Hellhound turned out to be vig.

pappumsrat

: I don't see him doing reads, not involved from the last 16 or so pages. PR, third party, scum.

More coming later.

Last sentence, Cheery Dog.

Okay, I'll start doing my reads again, if you want to. I don't have too much time now, so I guess tomorrow?

[Cheery Dog]

Just because we ignored it doesn't mean we said they sucked.

Anyway, if I've counted correctly, we have less than 5 days until deadline (though it might be different since we haven't had a pappums rat replacement join us yet)

[Kublai Khan]

What alt? What's alt?

alt = alternate account

Your account is only just over a month old, yet you talk about "back in the day". So what other account names have you posted under?

[Melmond]

I want to see Lupo lynched, but you're missing the bigger picture if you think it's just policy. I brought this up in my #448. There's some policy in there, there's also anti-town and scummy sentiments in the mix. But the bigger picture is Lupo's flip is a melting pot of information waiting to be unleashed.

What information will we get from his flip? The case on him as I see it is because he defended hellhound d1 for some, him hopping on the NS wagon for others, and lurking for others.
As of now, I don't support his lynch, so if people could explain and push his case, so I can understand it better, that would be good.

Right now, I'd be more in favor of bbstar or killerjester lynches.

[Melmond]

Okay, I'll start doing my reads again, if you want to. I don't have too much time now, so I guess tomorrow?

Yes, please do reads.

What alt? What's alt?

alt =

Your account is only just over a month old, yet you talk about "back in the day". So what other account names have you posted under?

I've been wondering this also, whether he plays at a different site or what.

[triangle123]

BBS is likely town. His vote on NS wasn't exactly the greatest one, but I definitely think it's something that would come from town rather than scum simply for that reason. It's true that scum might want an easy wagon to go through, but BBS' vote was just too obvious to be something scum would do. He just seems like a relatively inexperienced town player.

What information will we get from his flip?

I actually think there's quite a bit of information we could get from his flip, just by looking at the way his wagon builds up. Plus, he was the counterwagon for Hellhound, who was town, and is now the counterwagon to BBS, who I believe is town. I know looking at counterwagons isn't always accurate, but that's in addition to the points I outlined in #402.

[killerjester]

Lupo is a good lynch regardless, but I'm not seeing how we get barrels full of information from lynching him over player X. Can someone elaborate on that point? PoPP first, then triangle.

[ChaosOmega]

Vote Count 2.03

Lupo (4) - pappums rat, killerjester, triangle123, pieceofpecanpie
basketballstar24 (4) - Cheery Dog, Melmond, Idiotking, Nobody Special
Nobody Special (3) - Kublai Khan, Lupo, basketballstar24
killerjester (1) - Paschendale

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Still searching for a replacement for pappums rat.

Deadline

~3 days and 15 hours

[Melmond]

@mod: We need prods on a few people.

[Lupo]

I'm back (sorry I miscounted a day of my vla) the "hammer" vote is mostly what jumps out at me in my quick reread.

However, seeing as I still do not have an answer, my vote will remain

[triangle123]

Melmond and Lupo, thoughts on BBS' hammer?

[Paschendale]

Well, if there's clearly not going to be a Killerjester wagon, it's useless to hold out my vote. Plus he's kind of performed better since that one awful post.

Of the other three main wagons...

I'm sorry, I just don't see Lupo as scum. Most of the arguments for him just don't make sense. I think a lot of the reasons to vote for NS have been because of lurking, which seems like a poor reason to lynch someone over actual scummy targets. Plus, isn't he getting replaced? So, I'll put my vote back to BBS. He still looks scummier than the other two.

Unvote
Vote: Basketballstar

Probably won't have anything else to say tonight cuz I'm rather drunk. But I don't want to get in the way of ensuring that we have a lynch by the deadline.

[basketballstar24]

What alt? What's alt?

alt = alternate account

Your account is only just over a month old, yet you talk about "back in the day". So what other account names have you posted under?

I play at another site, artofproblemsolving.com. And yes I'm a little kid.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Lupo is a good lynch regardless, but I'm not seeing how we get barrels full of information from lynching him over player X. Can someone elaborate on that point? PoPP first, then triangle.

A quick reply here, but off the bat I can think of a few reasons...

1. Lupo's insistence that Hellhound was town - thus staying off his wagon - has been contrasted by a number of his own actions.

eg. not calling for a counter lynch, lurking, not making it clear cut why we shouldn't have lynched Hellhound

Hellhound's flip does not indemnify Lupo, on the contrary it makes me wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes with Lupo's motives.

2. As a follow up to that last point, me thinks the rabbit hole could go

beyond

Lupo

eg. players such as Cheery Dog, Kublai Khan and killerjester

However, there is enough validation to lynch Lupo on his own merits and whether this may or may not instigate follow up questions in the next Day is yet to be seen. That does not mean I'm passively lining up lynches, I'm merely remarking that Lupo's flip is valuable in its own rights, but the potential for further information on other players to stem from his lynch is very real. That is a mixture of gut feeling and the next point...

3. Lupo was the Day 1 counter wagon to Hellhound. As a rule that could mean scum were voting Lupo (Kublai Khan, BBStar, killerjester). Lupo has also made various scummy/anti-town plays, mentioned - but not limited to - the points in 1., so there's a possibility he will and benefit to Lupo flipping either way.

My basic premise is that we nail scum, or find scum through Lupo.

[Cheery Dog]

And yes I'm a little kid.

That does explain some of your actions to be more town and why you had that outburst where you claimed.
I guess I better move my vote onto the next of my list of scummiest for now then.

UNVOTE: bbstar
VOTE: Nobody Special

[Kublai Khan]

This is ridiculous. It's been 3 days since Nobody Special posted last. After he acknowledged the short deadlines. After he promised that he was changing his meta and going to be more active. After he got his modem working.

[Melmond]

Melmond and Lupo, thoughts on BBS' hammer?

Eh, it seems more like something newbtown would do than scum would.
UNVOTE: bbstar
I'll decide on who to vote later today, after I do some research.

[killerjester]

Okay, after #469 I feel better about PoPP's place on the Lupo wagon. Before I felt as though he was stressing the informational aspect of Lupo's lynch over Lupo's scummy play. For instance, in #431 he was citing instances where his feelings towards Lupo's scummy

play

were diminished, but that we should lynch him anyway based from

information and policy

. That's also why I felt he was playing more of a suspicious, uninvolved role in Lupo's wagon.

#469 suggests the opposite. That Lupo is still a scummy scum, but that in addition there is an informational aspect to lynching him.

Which makes more sense.

[Nobody Special]

I am pretty much convinced that BBS is scum, and yes, I'm tunneling. Not much else to say right now.

I will switch to Lupo if deadline looms and BBS isn't going to be lynched. Those are my two top suspects right now.