Open 446: C9++ (Avast! Viruses!) - GAME OVER

[DoomYoshi]

If a day 2 massclaim is instant win, why bother playing?

[Azusa Nakano]

I switched because I felt the game was stalling and I was unable to convince players to join. After joining, I got cold feet for being on a case that is really just a coinflip for me.

My gut is telling me Inte is town, but your case is pretty convincing. I am going to have to mull this one over. Your noticed connection between inte and Bitmap is the most promising part.

The case on RBD seems curious. Almost everyone is attacking it from a different angle. My angle: If I was wrong in assuming a VT claim, and bitmap already denied it, why are you using that to clear bitmap RBD?

Fastposted by inte: I know it is easier to see things from your own perspective, but that isn't the reason I unvoted.

[spoilers= My love letter to inte. <3[/spoilers]

No. It was forced and fake because you were trying way too hard to look like you were reaction fishing. It didn't feel like a legitimate attempt to do anything, it felt like you pretending to be productive. That should have been obvious, and I have to believe you're being obtuse.

and what about Demon Core? he did the exact same thing (hyperbole, in case you try to spin this against me), the post before, yet you make no mention of him. actually you read him as a town gut-read and you agree with his though processes. so is this a point for or against me?

You really should check out underneath the spoiler tag. I actually did mention him and explained what I perceived to be the distinction-

#7 and #8 are the most half-assed "reaction tests" I've ever seen. I'm honestly skeptical that both were genuine. I buy Demon's explanation in #16, which makes me more worried about inte.

so are you in favor or against the d3f3nd3r lynch? as far as i can tell you agree with me, but this seems to me a big point in your case.
are you criticizing the way i said it? if so, thats a playstyle issue.

You don't see a distinction between "I think we should lynch Defender if I can't get enough votes on one of my preferred candidates, otherwise I'd prefer a vigging" and "I don't think we should lynch defender, let's wait and see if the vig kills them."? Because there's a pretty big difference there. If that's not what you mean, then you're being incredibly unclear.

right, its not like he unvoted 7 posts after i called him out on another opportunistic vote. theres no way he would unvote after that.

I suppose, unlike you, I don't think Yoshi would do something I consider to be phenomenally stupid. In your scenario, here is how it goes:

Yoshiscum sees a bandwagon reforming on Defender, and thinks that he can hop onto it. Thus, he votes for him after Applejack joins the wagon. Carto asks him for information about why he phrased that post the way he did, but he ignored it, because he has no excuse for the incredibly opportunistic votehop. Then you- somebody that has been calling him scum pretty much the entire game, calls the vote opportunistic and Yoshi panics, deciding that he has to unvote under this overwhelming pressure.

Can you explain how this fits at all? Why would Yoshi ignore the questioning of one person, but then suddenly decide that you questioning the vote is just TOO MUCH and that he has to unvote now? It's an incoherent thought process.

[quote="In ? do you always mention people that you have a hard time reading? i've played with elmo prob 4 or so games before and every one of them have been near VI tier play. hence i always read him as scummy[/quote]

I would, yes. It kind of helps to be transparent and explain how you feel about each player. And if you have trouble reading Elmo, it might be a good idea to bring that up. After all, somebody else could be good at reading Elmo and be able to point you to any scum or town tells they've committed thus far in the game. It does no good to just hide reads or not mention them- sharing information is always beneficial to the town.

[quote="In most of it i didn't read[/quote]

... Wow. You are willing to call somebody your main scum suspect when you don't even read most of their content.

Why is there not a wagon on you?

[quote="In i didn't even post in the time between his stance flip
yeah man sure people can change their reads, but i took "inte is town" as "inte is obvious town and shouldn't be ever lynched"
confident statements like that always have larger connotations.[/quote]

I disagree, firstly. That is a play style and writing difference. For instance, people often make declarative statements like that based on gut, which I'd hope you agree is hardly an inflexible, constant force. It all depends on the player and the way they play.

Anyway, if you look, nacho's reads had changed between the two posts. For instance, he had flipped on whether he thought Yoshi, somebody you are attacking with a great deal of fervor, was likely to be scum. That's going to have a domino effect on the rest of the reads, due to their interactions. But I'll wait and see the case Nacho produces before I pass further judgment on the matter.

[quote="In it benefits him by attempting to get one of his proponents to his buddy's lynch, lynched[/quote]

So basically, instead of putting you on the NK list, he's going to attempt to start a bandwagon on you a week before deadline, when there are various other lynch choices available (including Defender in particular, whom would be an incredibly easy scum target, unless you want to assert a Yoshi-Nacho-Defender team), because you have a suspicion of a scumbuddy that is not gaining any traction, and is not likely to in the near future? Why would he feel the need to defend Yoshi like that; somebody who currently isn't particularly in need of aid? Especially given that Yoshi's eventual lynch is more or less inevitable.

By the way, you're begging the question here. Can you make a case for a Yoshi-nacho scumteam? I mean, his position on your alignment and Yoshi's alignment has flipped. You got anything else?

[quote="In actually bump Azusa to an alternative to a lynch today[/quote]

Sweet story bro. Got a case?[/spoilers]

I switched because I felt the game was stalling and I was unable to convince players to join. After joining, I got cold feet for being on a case that is really just a coinflip for me.

Do you mean the defender "case"? Because you didn't really pressure anybody to join, there. You just went on and went off. Also, why did you not respond to Carto's question to you back on Page 14?

@Defender: Post content. Now. You're giving me no reason to continue to hold my opinion that we shouldn't lynch you. You may think that we shouldn't lynch you because we're a ways from mylo, but from our perspective, that is a perfect reason to lynch you. Prove useful or your bandwagon WILL start up again. We're basically only not lynching you out of necessity because of the option that you're going to die anyway.

[Azusa Nakano]

I am NEVER NOT PREVIEWING MY POSTS EVER AGAIN.

[inte]

If a day 2 massclaim is instant win, why bother playing?

because its not an instant win

[inte]

im going to stop the walls now

[Azusa Nakano]

im going to stop the walls now

Sounds good. Will definitely make my formatting issues easier. :p

Would still love to hear a case on me, though. What points do you believe I have not answered to your satisfaction? What do you otherwise find scummy about my posts?

[inte]

i will bring up a couple of points that do need addressing though

1) i will concede the point about Demon Core. i did not read your entire post
2) most of Yoshi's play strikes me as newb scum, so yes, i wouldn't put it behind him to do something like that
3) i thought the way i worded my point about elmo was clear.

i always read him as scum

should have implied that i've played with him enough
4) if nacho parks his vote on someone who is mislynched then it gives him town cred

[seilkops]

Hey gaiz. I'll be reading this thread over the weekend, and getting into it. Sorry bout' this.

[Applejack]

V/LA until approximately September 21

I've got limited access for the next couple of days. I'll try to stay up-to-date in this thread, but no guarantees.

[McStab]

@Azuna - If there's not enough momentum for a lynch on RBD, I'd be happy with an Applejack lynch, and I could live with a Defender lynch. My main problem with a Defender lynch is that my main scumreads are the ones pushing his lynch right now; not that he's doing a particularly good job defending himself or finding scum, but I think his flip could help either solidify or dispense of my scumreads on RBD and Applejack.

[Bitmap]

Bitmap: Out of curiousity, what flavor of Kool-Aid is it that you guys are drinking? Because Bitmap is scummy as hell. In the early game, Bitmap was continually contradictory, and looked awful in the exchange with Rainbow Dash. And the closest thing to content that Bitmap has been providing lately is some 1-2 line posts and a whole bunch of sheeping without making any sort of cases of his own. Like, look at the length of that iso and compare it to the amount of legitimate content within there. It's awful. I get the towntells you guys are putting forward, but they feel incredibly circumstantial to me and they just don't override the colossal waves of scumminess I'm getting here.

Open 421

Bitmap- Are there any particular posts of Apple/Rainbow's that get your gut a'twitching? Or can you provide a general feel on what makes them Gut!Scummy?

RBD is a strong player and the fact that AJ has been following RBD around makes me feel that one or the other is scum. Also, RBD is trying to pull the same shtick all over again.

[Cartographer]

Yoshi, you were apologetic about your play. Why do you continue to act the same way?

I am trying to see you as town, but you are making it very difficult.

Nacho, I think inte struck a cord with you

Also, how do I go from town to you willing to post a case? Have I completely misinterpreted this post?

Asuza asian name, when did you compile those notes? Were you watching the game before you entering it?

At this point I am calling D3f3nd3r town because of his obstinate refusal to do anything. Unfortunately he may have to be killed despite my opinions about his alignment.

Rainbow, please explain your reasoning for voting D3f3nd3r. Calling your vote on him a semi-policy lynch is an easy way to move the vote when it is no longer advantageous for you.

Especially after posts like this, this, and this.

In my opinion, your entire approach of D3f3nd3r is an ebb and flow of pressure mimicking the town's thought toward him at the time.

In addition, why did you suddenly drop the solid scum read? I am still waiting for these "exact amount of points" that you promised. Your sudden reversal of a read on solid is suspicious because you made it as if you already had the case/points made when you said "exact amount of points". However, this is true?

Where is everyone deriving this mystery town tell about solid? Asuza, why would you not want your town tell clarified, since you only "think" you see it? You want the setup clarified first?

Solid's alignment is not related to the setup. Are you all saying he said something about his role that would be a town tell?

How do you believe Apple is backing up her reads genuinely when she completely voted me for bogus reasons thinking my wagon would go somewhere.

Am I the one that needs to take a step away from the game and analyze everything?

I believe this is the fourth time that someone has expressed dislike for my Rainbow sheep, then fear of Rainbow. Look through my iso and Crtl + F rainbow. My response is to inte and I explain my actions there. Please read.

Speaking of reading, Nacho, how can you say you read, when you voted for my predecessor? I had forgotten to mention this when addressing you earlier.

To answer your question, my vote would most likely go to utility in lynching D3f3nd3r. Outside of that I would like Applejack to die.

I am curious about your inte read. I have not really been paying attention to inte. However, his refusal to state anything about my slot in terms of reasoning is annoying and contradictory. 1) inte wishes that D3f3nd3r not be lynched, 2) inte wishes for Cartographer to be lynched, 3) inte never gives reason as to why, yet pleads for my lynch

One would think logically he would present a case, give reasoning and move the town away from D3f3nd3r's lynch and onto my lynch. Why doesn't he? It is not for a lack of time certainly.

He is willingly sitting on the sidelines

saying

how much he wants me lynched and

saying

how much he wants D3f3nd3r to be vigged, but outside of

saying

those things he does nothing to achieve his wishes.

inte, I hope you like being wrong by .4%. I wish I could answer and clarify my actions to convince you to do something useful. However, I am not Siv. The only aspect of your play saving me from calling you town is your obsession with keeping your vote on my slot.

I've said it once in response to Rainbow. Please do not deal in vagueries. List reasons for your suspicions. Part of how I catch mafia is looking at people's opinions throughout the game on certain others. Letting yourself settle is fine, as long as you say so. Remaining vague in your suspicions only leaves people like me to assume. Giving a clear reason for your suspicions allows me and potentially others to understand your point and investigate.

The gist of my Rainbow suspicion is in this post. I am really very tired and I have to read two other games so I say good night to all of you in this thread.

[Azusa Nakano]

I'd be happy with an Applejack lynch, and I could live with a Defender lynch. My main problem with a Defender lynch is that my main scumreads are the ones pushing his lynch right now; not that he's doing a particularly good job defending himself or finding scum, but I think his flip could help either solidify or dispense of my scumreads on RBD and Applejack.

This is the first time I've heard about Applescum from you. Care to elaborate?

Open 421

Meta becomes absolutely worthless once the user in question is aware of it. Thanks for playing, though.

RBD is a strong player and the fact that AJ has been following RBD around makes me feel that one or the other is scum. Also, RBD is trying to pull the same shtick all over again.

Thanks for the explanation of your reads. Nothing substantial, but at least you committed yourself to some kind of elaborated opinion. Makes me feel better enough about you that I'm really comfortable with an inte lynch today.

Asuza asian name, when did you compile those notes? Were you watching the game before you entering it?

All my notes were composed after it was confirmed I would be entering the game. Any particular reason you're asking?

At this point I am calling D3f3nd3r town because of his obstinate refusal to do anything. Unfortunately he may have to be killed despite my opinions about his alignment.

I can see where you're coming from, but being obstructionist is a nulltell at best, in my book.

Where is everyone deriving this mystery town tell about solid? Asuza, why would you not want your town tell clarified, since you only "think" you see it? You want the setup clarified first? Solid's alignment is not related to the setup. Are you all saying he said something about his role that would be a town tell?

I'll clarify. I can't be sure that we're talking about the same thing, and the tell is hardly a sure indicator of alignment regardless. A decent one, but certainly not a perfect one. I don't want the town tell clarified because discussing the setup and role possibilities/probabilities does not seem that beneficial to me at the moment (it bugs me that Rainbow is so obsessed with discussing it), so I don't want to directly explain what I believe the tell to be.

How do you believe Apple is backing up her reads genuinely when she completely voted me for bogus reasons thinking my wagon would go somewhere.

It's worth noting that there's a difference between an argument being genuine and an argument being strong. I don't find the case that Apple pushed to be particularly compelling, but the reasoning behind it: the shift in 202 and 234 which I noted myself, a dislike over your predecessors play (which I completely consider valid, there are one or two aspects of Siveure's play that were weak at best), and a feeling that you were fishing for the towntell Apple found re: solid (which it feels like you still kind of are doing). Overall I don't find the case compelling, but I find it to be a logically sound one that a townie would make.

The fact that she then unnecessarily switched off you back to Defender once she claimed that it felt like her question was answered also gives her some points. It makes the pressure feel more genuine.

I believe this is the fourth time that someone has expressed dislike for my Rainbow sheep, then fear of Rainbow. Look through my iso and Crtl + F rainbow. My response is to inte and I explain my actions there. Please read.

Your response was logically sound. My dislike of it is solely based on gut feeling, so sorry if you don't like it. I try to keep my arguments as logically-based as possible, but emotional responses are going to creep in now and again. It just feels incredibly weird to me, even when defended. Just as although Rainbow has explained their reasoning for some of their actions, I find a good deal of those explanations unsatisfactory. Although this is mostly based on dissatisfaction with the overall logic behind the posts, there is some gut feeling that Rainbow is just making it up as they go along as well.

I am curious about your inte read.

I'm unsure if you mean your interested or you desire more elaboration. Because between my notes and summary basically cover my feelings about inte, and some of the shaky logic in his responses does not make me feel any better. I also still believe that his sudden turn on my slot feels like a sudden OMGUS, and not legitimate suspicion.

And I basically concur with what you're saying. Inte seems very hesitant to actually make any cases, here. In order to find anything resembling a cogent case, you have to go all the way back to Post #80, and I maintain that the arguments there were forced as all hell. Back in the present, the closest you get is that you're scummy because of things that Val did (the only thing that he's mentioned that I can find is the vote sheeping Rainbow, and I maintain that Bit's vote was worse), and the closest thing that I can find on a case regarding Nacho is that he went from believing that inte was town to inte being scummy without an explanation. Which feels rather OMGUSy by itself.

If I'm missing any points inte, please quote them. But I'm looking through your iso right now, and I don't see any.

[Cartographer]

Have you played mafia before?

Have you played mafia on this site before?

I ask because your creation date is today. And you are already very familiar with the game as a whole. That is not something I expect unless experience is in your background.

Another question, why this game?

[Rainbowdash]

@cart - If you want to make a solid case I no longer agree with for the heck of it I will but its just going to be noise. He made a conclusion though that outside of a very specific situation that already gives us quite the hoof up on scum I just dont think scum would make, ESPECAILLY if DY is town. If DY is town I would be willing to call solid one of my top town reads.

Cant really explain defender better then I have. He is not doing anything but trying to bargin extra days of life at this point, thats what every post made in the last WEEK from him is about. No reads, just "kill me later - not now".

Not sure how much I can go into the other reads since inte is gut but he is somepony I always see as scum so wouldnt be adverse to a lynch of. Know he is very lynchable though.

Nacho is still a bit of a scumread because of the way he is treating inte. The read on him really is surprising since he called inte town when he replaced in, and then placeholders the vote on him which he updgrades to serious (?) at a later point.

MS is just not playing to the MS norm town play. What really is making it stand out for me is how much he is going on meta for me, yet he wants a DY lynch post claim which should to him (going on meta) be something that scum wants and not town. Doctors are SCARY for scum in this setup because they can get confirmed to exist easily and then they have to be NKed away. Plus the fact that he is entirely misrepping the fact that I am not trying to have a massclaim, but also (if he really likes meta) is completely ignoring the fact that I do this exact same approach to the game as town. It feels like he is trying to justify the reasoning to vote me instead of trying to justify a vote based on reasoning.

Also yeah, meta is entirely useless to a player who knows their meta, and I know my scum meta inside and out. Especially when its related to theory since im kind of an egghead when it comes to that stuff.

[Cartographer]

I am sorry if I confused. My curiousity about the inte read is not your particular read. (lol) It was a mental note to myself to look at inte.

I accept that you have no explainable reason to distrust my explanation. I have tried my best at explaining it and I grow tired from talking about to so many different people when I specifically point out my explanation several times. People are not reading my posts.

I probably need to be more concise.

I promised myself I would go to bed but I am posting here. (lol)

About the town tell, I do not care about the town tell in determing solid's alignment. I think solid is town, whether he exhibited a "tell" or not. I want other people to explain their reads on solid. That way I can follow their logic throughout the game.

Tying people to an opinion is half the battle to catching scum. You force them to stick with that logic for the rest of the game. Of course there are caveats that explain the other half of catching scum.

However, since so many other people prefer to live the life of vagueries I will not explain those caveats now. Perhaps after the game has fleshed out for a day or two.

Remind me about this post.

[Cartographer]

Rainbow, I do not want to make a case. I want

you

to explain the exact amount of points you mentioned. If that means making a case, then yes, I would like to see it.

You sound frustrated that I am perpetually asking you questions.

I am sorry if I make this game boring for you. That is not my intention.

[yabbaguy]

Vote Count:

13 alive, 7 to lynch

Rainbowdash (3) - McStab, Bitmap, Cartographer,
D3f3nd3r (2) - Rainbowdash, Applejack,
inte (2) - Nachomamma8, Azusa Nakano,
solidstate (1) - D3f3nd3r,
Cartographer (1) - inte,
Applejack (1) - seilkops,

Not Voting: {Demon Core}, DoomYoshi, solidstate,

V/LA: Applejack (9/21?)
Azusa... get back to me on those formatting gripes. We're more preoccupied with this whole "virus invasion" business over your "flagrant syntax error" business, no offense.

Deadline: Sep. 25 @ 11:59 EDT (GMT-4). No Lynch occurs if this elapses.

[Azusa Nakano]

@Carto- Not too relevant, but I'll respond regardless- I suppose I'm technically an alt, but it's entirely irrelevant, because my original account is old and hasn't been used in... ever. Besides, I'm positive I never played with any of you. The only person I don't know about is Dash, but that's just because I don't know their main account. Most of my experience solely comes from reading games. As for why I joined... *Shrug* I saw the game needed replacements, and I hate to see that. I despise it when people flake when I'm reading (somewhat ironic, given my history), and a lack of representation in slots just leads to the game stalling. So I decided to volunteer.

I'm still not sure how important this is, particularly the latter question. Are you simply asking for meta purposes?

@ Rainbow- This feels a bit cagey to me. I want it clear- you have a gut scum read on inte, but you aren't particularly convinced of anything by it because it's typical? However, given that gut scum read, you wouldn't mind an inte lynch?

And your reasoning bewilders me. You are basically echoing inte's argument... whom you say you have a gut scum read on. So, because he now believes that somebody you seem to be implying you think is scummy, and wouldn't mind being lynched, is scum... you have a scumread on him? And that isn't a completely accurate representation of the course of events.

Here's what nacho said-

I want to vote inte so badly right now.
Cartographer is being too town right here, so I suppose I can't vote him now.
Whatever, this can be a placeholder for later.

To me, this reads "I find inte scummy, but I don't feel/don't have the time to make a case right now. So, since I find him scummy, I'll just set my vote down here temporarily."

Hence, it was always a "serious suspicion", it was just how far Nacho was going to go in order to elucidate said suspicion.

Doctors are SCARY for scum in this setup because they can get confirmed to exist easily and then they have to be NKed away.

So how do you feel about inte's continual pushing for a Yoshi wagon, to the point that he had Yoshi as #2 on his List 'O Lynches? In fact, Yoshi is probably the player he's talked the most about all game.

And how do you feel about my statement that aside from your Defender arguments, you have not provided a great deal of content in this game? The fact that you didn't comment on it almost made it feel like you were conceding the point.

@Yabba- That's fair. The posts are probably beyond repair, anyway.

I should probably let others post a bit more, but the thing is that I have so much free time at the moment, and everybody keeps posting things I want to comment on.

[Rainbowdash]

@AN - That quote from Nacho is my problem with him. He called inte town shortly before that point. Why sit your vote on a town read? Also yes, im not really against a lynch on inte even though I always read him as scum either way. I would probably go for a MS and nacho lynch first though. Im naming scum reads, not scum teams.

@Cart - If you really insist on me putting up a few of my "why soild is scum for 176 reasons" which again, due to a tell I found while MAKING this case I dont think are even valid

1) This is the tell I changed my mind on so im not going to bring it up, even though it would still be very difficult for soild-scum to actually exploit if he knew what I was talking about.
2) His response to being called out for "easy wagoning" was really bizzare and seemed to basically circle to the point of "its the pro-town thing to do" which is not town thinking in a vast majority of cases. You dont think "as town I would do X" most of the time as town, but instead "I should do X". The first train of thought arrives at is more of what you think as scum. I get moving the game along but this is explained in a manner that doesnt sound much like it comes from town POV.
3) Last part is just discrediting DY instead of responding to him. Its a tactic ive used as scum, if you make the player seem like they have no merit, anything the push automatically loses some merit as well.

[Bitmap]

Actually, I'm starting to not like McStab this game... but I still feel like one of the ponies are scum. I'll elaborate on Asusa's reasoning tomorrow.

[DoomYoshi]

RBD:

still haven't answered my last question to you, but I have a new one.

If: (and I agree with this) solid is scummy for not responding to me/discrediting me
Then: mcstab is also scummy for not responding to my wall except via discredit

Yes?

Cart:

When a game is going at around 5 posts a day (out of 13 players) can you suggest why someone would want to flake out? Not just 1 person either, it's like a wave of moral depravity is infesting this site... I just wanted an explanation for this in terms of game mechanics.

McStab:

Applejack scum? Da fuck?

[Azusa Nakano]

@Bitmap- What don't you like about McStab?

@DarthYoshi- I don't think an explanation is necessary in terms of game mechanics. There are various out-of-game reasons people flake- perhaps they simply lose interest. Perhaps RL issues come up (that's essentially what happened to Demon Core). Perhaps they are just in too many games and can't keep track of this one anymore. Being replaced out is simply a nulltell, due to the various factors involved that we aren't privy to.

@Rainbow- And in that very same post, he basically says that it switched to a scumread. Why did it switch? We don't know yet. Nacho said he would make a case (which I really want to see soon, Nacho). He wasn't parking his vote on a townread anymore.

This whole attitude towards Nacho is concerning me. It's not that your defending inte here- I'm basically doing the same thing with Nacho. It's that you're essentially repeating inte's argument in order to do it, and ignoring various things that I perceive to be rather gaping flaws in your reasoning. It would imply that you're not reading the posts closely enough, and I know you're a better player than that.

That said, your solid case is decent.

[D3f3nd3r]

My reads:

Azusa: I was in a game where a replacement started a game just like you did. I didn't like his play terribly much, same with you, but it's townie. Slightly town.

DY: 396 (2 above) is really townie. 349, uh, nope. Could be both. Game is really slow w/ five posts a day. There'd be just under three pages at deadline for D1. Also controversial is 280, then 331, then 357. Slightly scum.

Seilkops: Obviously

scum

town, but post more stuff. Don't lynch me for my crappy humor. MC Town.

Bitmap: You confuse me.

Who is your greatest scumread? And as Azusa said, why do you dislike McStab?

Null.

The Ponies: If you're both scum, it's either coincidence. Chance they're masons though, but I don't like either. Slightly leaning scum. If one flips mason, the other is with him. If one flips scum, the other is town probably.

Cartographer: Same as Azusa. For some reason, probably paranoia, I think you're a little less town. Null.

McStab: Lurker since 9/9. Meh since. Null leaning town.

Inte: Meta shows town. Spartacus Mafia Mini Theme, he flipped town but played similar to now until then. Less but longer posts in NY 152, where we were scumbuddies. Slightly town.

Nacho: Small but common posts somehow gives me null reads unlike Inte. Null.

Solidstate: Don't like him. Bet him 372 was reaction fishing on me. Also bet he's scum. Scum.

Demon Core: Gonna wait for his replacement so I can read him.

[DoomYoshi]

I am in disbelief that the preceding post finally happened.

Defender, can you differentiate between the ponies please? While they have shown similar attitudes and trajectories towards you and solid, they have been very different on other ideas (bitmap's VT claim for example). I know it seems like they are a unit, but it's not like they got their roles and then decided on names.