Open 446: C9++ (Avast! Viruses!) - GAME OVER

[Azusa Nakano]

Good. You want to dance, McStab? Let's dance.

Spoiler: You're my bestest buddy evers McStab

1. He argues the wagon isn't motivated by scum/people with alternate motives.

No. I argue that you are being incredibly dishonest when you initially assert the following-

I love how quick the wagon falls apart on RBD and switches to me when she does a shitty OMGUS vote.

This implies that the people now on your wagon were initially on the RBD wagon. This is false. This is a point you didn't comment on in either of these responses.

Nah, RBD and DoomYoshi are pushing these cases against me because I've pushed both of them as scum and now is there chance for OMGUS revenge.

This implies that DoomYoshi is on the wagon and pushing for your lynch. This is false.

DoomYoshi's case on me amounts to lurking. It sucks, and is OMGUS motivated. He backed off my attack earlier, but now that he thinks he has backup he's going after me again. NOT REAL SCUMHUNTING.

RBD misconstrues the case on me as "selective meta". This is, again, OMGUS, as I've defended myself against her manipulative and shallow accusations.

Azusa does a total about face and tries to excuse it using a synthesis of both arguments. While this alone doesn't warrant a vote, a flip by RBD or Doom as scum does warrant a lynch on Azusa.

It's so funny that 2/3 of the pushers on my wagon are people I pushed hard on earlier, and now they're acting as though they're totally impartial. lulz

[/quote]

You don't even comment on solidstate being on the wagon, and state that "2/3 of the people [thus excluding me] on my wagon" are people I've "pushed hard earlier" which implies that the wagon consists of Rainbow, Yoshi, and I. That is false.

What is your defense when I bring this up?

As for solid joining the wagon, I hadn't noticed. I'm sure he legitimately thinks I'm scum, since, you know, he's the other wagon right now and is looking for a way to survive. No motivation for him to try and find me scummy in there, none at all!

That's just pathetic. You bother to try to refute the arguments of everybody on your wagon... yet conveniently forget who it is that is actually, you know, ON THE WAGON? It also conveniently allowed you to smear me as scum, which would have been difficult otherwise, given how you hadn't mentioned me at all. Which isn't OMGUSy at all, no sir!

2. He concedes the lurking point to me. So that facet of his argument has collapsed totally.

Nice try. Let's look at your iso, shall we?

#116- Promise for a catchup post.
#159- Case against Yoshi. (Oh, don't worry. I'm getting to that.)
#163- Fluff.
#177- Pushing for a claimed doc to be lynched.
#181- Non-game post.
#183- Pointing out what you perceive to be hypocrisy on Applejack's part. You don't explain whether it is scummy, anti-town... what. You just say "Hey guys! Look at this!". That is the definition of pretending to scumhunt. Oh, and you slip in a pseudo-comment about solidstate's behavior without actually bothering to elaborate on it at all, or how it makes you view his play.
#226- Promise for a catchup post.
#288- Beginning of a push on Rainbow. Based on the sample size of one game. And completely based on meta and theory- there is no comment on Rainbow's actual play in this game thus far, beyond that single post.
#298- More commentary on Rainbow being scum because of theory and meta, in which you misrep Rainbow's intentions by making that post spetacularly. But Rainbow is doing a good enough job defending herself at the moment.
#384- A vague read on Defender, and a scumread on Applejack that has never been brought up before.

So, out of the 10 posts before you actually have to defend yourself (and, coincidentally, the amount of content per post just spikes upward), at least 4 have no content. Given how there is absolutely no elaboration in #183, I'd say that it's 5. Another 4 are pushes on single players with no comment on anybody else in the game. And your case on Rainbow was based on a single point, without commenting on anything else that she has contributed to the game, or lack thereof.

You've been making a pretty dang good effort to say as little as possible using a bunch of words, looking at your iso. But you're right. That isn't lurky behavior in the slightest.

3. Being open is better than saying nothing at all, but being absolutely open ISN'T beneficial. It allows good scum (and RBD is good scum) to manipulate town and eliminate those who suspect them. Anyone attempting NK analysis will be dismissed as WIFOM. So yeah, being open is better than saying nothing, but giving the scum your whole game isn't.

Good job dodging the thrust of my argument.

That key point? Let's go over the reads you have discussed- Defender. Looking back, you do state that he "hasn't done a good job at finding scum/defending himself." Which counts as a read, I guess, even if it's vague as all hell. Now let's look at Applejack. You didn't elaborate on this read until you're called out on it. Provide me one comment where you even imply Applejack to be scummy pre: #384. The closest is pointing out something you consider to be hypocritical. You don't elaborate on why that is scummy, or even say that it is. Just... kind of point it out. Also, as you note... this has nothing to do with your scumread on AJ. So it's completely irrelevant anyway. The last ones are Rainbow and Yoshi, and I maintain that those cases are just bad.

What are the reads you provide in this new post? You comment on solid, stating that you have a nullread. Of course, you don't elaborate on why. And any disclaimer about elaborating on townreads doesn't really work here, because you both don't consider solid to be town, and were willing to give your read on him. You also give a read on me. You don't actually comment on any of my prior content. I'm only scummy because I voted you after two other people [add: one of whom you think is scum] did and you feel that my case is full of stretches and misconceptions. Even though particularly solid cases can't be made on D1 anyway. Cool story.

And that's it. You honestly believe that it's not anti-town[add:/scummy] to not discuss your thoughts about more than 6 players in a game, while not even explaining one of them, and being incredibly vague on a second?

4. My read on Applejack comes out of nowhere. Yes, it does. Why? Because I was busy pursuing my number one scumreads in DoomYoshi and RBD.

Did your PM give you a PR that states you can only discuss one scumread at a time? Why couldn't you pursue multiple angles?

Once DoomYoshi claimed the wagon fell apart, and there doesn't seem to be enough support for RBD. So, switching from that, I went to the person who I felt had most avoided both of my wagons, had pushed Defender while there was no activity (parking your vote on those kind of players is a scum tactic to avoid having to take a stand on major issues) and seemed to me the most supportive of RBD. It wasn't a strong scumread, nor is it; I still prefer RBD. However, if Applejack is a viable wagon, I will join it. Simple enough? I think I've been saying this for the last like week, so I really don't know how you all seem to have missed it.

This is one massive red herring. I honestly don't care much about the strength of your Applejack case. However, combined with the fact that it comes out of nowhere... it does feel like pretend scumhunting. You have yet to provide a legitimate reason as to why you didn't discuss this Applejack read until I actually pressed you on the reads you have, and even then you just say "I want an Applejack lynch", without explaining why until you've got a 3-person wagon on you. So: Why didn't you bother to explain the read once I actually asked you who you thought was scum besides Rainbow?

5. My case on DoomYoshi was weak. As I said, Day One's usually not a slam dunk. I still think it's likely he's scum, but I won't vote him as he's claimed doc.

I still do want to lynch DoomYoshi; I don't think he's a doc, and it's an easy enough claim to make, particularly because if he gets counterclaimed the real doc gets outed.

Okay, let's talk about your case.

^^This is a weird statement to say, it definitely rubs me the wrong way.

You don't even bother to explain why this is scummy. Regardless, reading it, I don't see it as a tell either way. (Nulltell: 1)

In post #74, DoomYoshi's statement of:

"Wait, what? I will judge by your answer to this question whether are not you take this game seriously, as I am borderline on ignoring you completely already."

Is a very aggressive, oversensitive response to a single vote without much weight on it.

Aggression to being suspected isn't a scumtell, particularly when the voter doesn't explain why. Town can get frustrated by people voting them without explaining their reasoning, or feeling like a bandwagon is forming based on absolutely nothing, because it gives them nothing to respond to. I can easily provide plenty of examples of town doing this. (Nulltell #2)

Also, first instance of taking the matter out-of-context. This was in response to inte voting Yoshi without providing any logic behind it, and just a clearly tongue-in-cheek comment. You don't see how that could frustrate somebody, particularly somebody still relatively new to the game? (OOC: 1)

I think speedlynches can be hilarious. I wouldn't flip out and complain if he was speedlynched, but I didn't seriously expect it to happen. Does that answer your question?

^^This shows no signs of real scumhunting. He thinks it would be funny to quicklynch someone in RVS. It probably would be, but it's inexcusable to do so for no reason whatsoever.

Spin. What does "real scumhunting" have to do with that post? He wasn't been asked what his reads were, or anything similar. He was being asked how serious he was about the quicklynch. His answer? He wasn't serious. He just thought it would have been amusing. In fact, you say you'd find it amusing yourself, and that the scummy part is that he planned to do it. Except that he didn't "seriously expect it to happen". (Spin: 1)

^Rolefishing for the vig? Either way I don't see how his question pertains to scumhunting.

I like how you took that one out of context, when the context itself is available in your very post. He was putting a follow-up question to Bitmap, who initially made that statement about the vig. Oddly enough... apparently that isn't rolefishing?

Also, through doing that, he gets Bitmap to take a stance on which Bitmap would desire to lynch, and potentially which one he finds scummier. That has everything to do with scumhunting. (OOC: 2)

Then attacking inactives because he can't really put his mind to scumhunting (I was on V/LA at the time).

Oddly, solidstate does the same thing. Yet, no comment from McStab about him at all.

^Retracts his statement when put under pressure.

Nulltell and spin all in one! Conceding a point isn't scummy. In fact, it demonstrates honesty: that you're trying to make a legitimate case, and not just clinging to old tired canards in order to pretend that you're scumhunting. (NT: 2) (Spin: 2)

Creates the illusion that I'm dodging him, despite only a few hours passing between my post and this one.

Spin. The point isn't that you are dodging any of his questions- the point is that as of yet you had yet to post any content, and had just explained why instead. Hence, his vote stays on you. (Spin: 3)

^^^Nice logic to keep focusing on inactives. "Half the game is inactive; I can't come up with real points on the ones posting, so I'll target the inactives! Through my genius use of PoE I've came to the conclusion that there MUST be scum amongst 6 of the 13 players in the game!"

It doesn't change the fact that you're targeting of inactives is an easy way to fake scumhunting, scum.

The only good point in your entire post.

Cartographer, I don't even know the reason for you jumping on my wagon. It seems to me you just sheeped (funny that you're sheeping the wagon that your supposed big suspect of RBD is driving) but you didn't want to admit it (hence the whole "Ugh I'm so conflicted everyone notice" part of your post).

[/quote]

Isn't it convenient that people always become scummy when they start to suspect you?

Apple still reeks of town from that latest exchange, but I would like an explanation of her wording re: "I am also able to make your behavior out to be scummy", as opposed to "I am able to see that your behavior is scummy", or something of the sort, when she calms down and comes back. That is countered by her outright putting herself on the chopping block if McStab flips town, when there wasn't much pressure on her. That only makes sense in a McStab-Apple pair, and I'm not feeling that at all right now.

@Yoshi- Please help me help you. Answer my questions.

[Azusa Nakano]

Actually, if that was a slip, a McStab-Apple pair is actually VERY unlikely. So, yeah. Back to incredibly solid town on Apple.

[McStab]

Azusa's points:

1. That actually WASN'T what you were arguing, but now that you've changed your argument to better suit your needs, Cartographer did jump wagons from RBD to me. The pressure on RBD let up as well; a wagon can consist of voice as well as vote, much like DoomYoshi's contribution to my wagon prior to his vote.

2. DoomYoshi is on my wagon pushing my lynch. You're blatantly lying now?

3. I hadn't noticed solid being on the wagon, and was treating DoomYoshi as such because he was pushing for it without voting (he has since voted). I then go on to dismiss solid because he is the other leading wagon at the time; aka his motives for joining were survivalist. Also nice job not answering this point.

#116: Yeah, I was. This catchup post happens in post #159 with my case on Yoshi. #163 isn't fluff, but hey, when you're lying this much why bother stopping? #177, yeah, I thought he was scum. I didn't push the matter any further because I realized at a logical level why it was bad, but still, I think DY is scum. #181 you are correct.

Your criticism of my post #183 is only valid if you are viewing it with the IQ of a four year old. Obviously I am concluding Applejack's argument is wrong and his behaviour scummy by being hypocritical through saying a falsehood about solidstate that in fact applies to himself.

#226 is a prod dodge, and this occurs in #288.

Here's a little explanation of how meta works. Meta works by examining the play in this game and the play of the person in other games. I was making a statement about RBD's play this game by comparing it to a similar setup game where she exhibited similar behaviour as scum. Hence, I'm calling her scum. Understandable enough? Now stop using your dismissive buzzwords and start getting to the beef of statements k thx bai

#298 you actually don't go into any detail about criticizing, so I don't know how I can defend myself.

#384 I've told you already why I have a scumread on Applejack. So yeah, either read my posts or stop regurgitating the same garbage walls you've been producing since you've joined.


You argue that there is a coincidental link between pressure on me and activity. Well there's also a coincidental link between my activity in this game and my activity in every other game I'm in on the site, and considering the homework you do on my sitewide activity, I'm surprised you either A) Didn't notice or B) decided not to include it deliberately.

I answered your argument about openness, but once again you use dismissive buzzwords instead of actually accepting it. I also have been telling different scumreads, but since I'm not a doublevoter, I can't put a vote on both Apple and RBD.

I honestly don't care much about the strength of your Applejack case.

That's what you just said. You actually don't care at all about my case on Applejack, yet you've decided to go to great lengths to attack me and defend Applejack? Can you elaborate please, because what I'm seeing is you not scumhunting and instead tunnelling on me for some other motivation. What other motivation could you have?

And you once again misconstrue at the end of it my arguments. You say "people become suspicious when they attack me". No, I contend that others have attacked me once I've branded them suspicious.

Apple doesn't reek of town at all, she's VOTING ME BECAUSE SHE'S ANGRY. That's not a good motivation, that's not trying to find scum, and it's not grounded in logic. An L-2 vote for that reason is particularly bad.

And your last post is even funnier "If that was a slip.... incredibly solid town on Apple." Just to rephrase it so you know how crazy that sounds, you said that if Apple legitimately scumslipped then she is incredibly town.


The length of your post doesn't add any more validity to it, Azusa; I only hope the rest of the game realizes that and dissects your posts for the illogical ramblings they are.

[DoomYoshi]

Hey, Azusa, I will answer your question in a sec, I just wanted a word in edgewise first while I am still digesting the walls. Just to clarify your questions are:

What did you mean by "I guess i was wrong about solid"?
And... I can't find another one.

McStavb:. As much as you can call OMGUS on me, don't forget that I called it on you first. So, while RBD may be OMGUS (I can't speak for ponies) my vote/case on you isn't. I still hold the same sense that I held right after I claimed. Your case was terrible, and solid is scum, or a bad player, for finding it convincing.

Anyways, onto going to figure out the answer. My vague recollection is that I said that in connection to rbd finding a town tell,

[Applejack]

Not a slip, Azusa Nakano. I was making a point. I had stated that I needed to reread the thread and was leaning toward a McStab vote; McStab decided he needed to paint an action I hadn't yet committed with a broad paint of mud. Being an asshat isn't scummy. It just so happened that McStab did it in a way that I could color his actions as scummy, so I got the bonus of being able to call him scum on top of being [REDACTED].

[Azusa Nakano]

Oh, good. For the record, drop the personal attacks. It's immature and contributes nothing to the game.

Spoiler: Hi again. <3

Azusa's points:

1. That actually WASN'T what you were arguing,

You can assert that all you want. Doesn't make it true.

I'll begin by stating that your initial comment regarding the derailment of the Rainbow wagon, and that "2/3 of the people on the wagon are people you pushed on earlier" are both just flat out nonsense. Here are the people currently on your wagon- me, solidstate, and Rainbow. I was voting inte. Solid wasn't voting anybody. Rainbow obviously wasn't selfvoting. The people voting Rainbow were you, Carto, and Bitmap. None of them have changed their vote. As for your second claim, you hadn't pushed on me or Solidstate at all. All you did to me was answer my questions, and you yourself state that you have a nullread on solidstate. You also haven't done anything close to "pushing on him".

That was spin at its finest.

Oh hey, speaking of spin...

Your sudden about face from a townread on me and my "genuine efforts" to number one scumread on a scum-motivated wagon

The wagon is made up of me, Rainbow, and solid. You think Rainbow is scum. Solid is null. From the way you worded your post, you didn't think I was scum until this vote. So... how is this a scum-motivated wagon again?

I do apologize if I wasn't clear. Can you explain the difference between these two points to me?

but now that you've changed your argument to better suit your needs, Cartographer did jump wagons from RBD to me. The pressure on RBD let up as well; a wagon can consist of voice as well as vote, much like DoomYoshi's contribution to my wagon prior to his vote.

... Do you have a TARDIS or something? You made that claim before Carto entered the picture. Check the post #s if you don't believe me, people.

And you specifically said: "how quick the wagon falls apart on RBD". Why did you use the word wagon instead of pressure, if you meant pressure?

2. DoomYoshi is on my wagon pushing my lynch. You're blatantly lying now?

It didn't as of 423. Try again.

Also nice job not answering this point.

I didn't answer it because I don't care. It's irrelevant to my point. You're just tossing red herrings out there and hope they stick.

#163 isn't fluff, but hey, when you're lying this much why bother stopping?

Explain the content contained within it, then. It's you sniping at Yoshi. Good job pretending it says something in case people don't check, though.

Your criticism of my post #183 is only valid if you are viewing it with the IQ of a four year old. Obviously I am concluding Applejack's argument is wrong and his behaviour scummy by being hypocritical through saying a falsehood about solidstate that in fact applies to himself.

Finally! It only took me bringing it up around 3 times before you explained its significance!

Also, no. Being hypocritical does not necessarily mean you're being scummy. People are hypocrites all the time. I'm sure you can find hypocrisies in my own posts. You need to explain WHY Equinox being a hypocrite is scummy in this instance. Your rebuttal is only valid if you're a 5 year old with no sense of reading comprehension.

See! I pretend like tossing around ad-homs diminishes my opponents arguments too!

Here's a little explanation of how meta works. Meta works by examining the play in this game and the play of the person in other games. I was making a statement about RBD's play this game by comparing it to a similar setup game where she exhibited similar behaviour as scum. Hence, I'm calling her scum. Understandable enough?

Somebody explain where I claim that any of this isn't true. Anybody. I'm saying that you made no comment about her PRIOR PLAY. You simply focus on that one action, and don't actually bother to analyze the rest of her behavior this game. That makes it come across as incredibly forced.

#384 I've told you already why I have a scumread on Applejack. So yeah, either read my posts or stop regurgitating the same garbage walls you've been producing since you've joined.

Dear god! I'm a verbose person! That makes my arguments completely invalid! And you hadn't before you made that post. And that was my point.

You argue that there is a coincidental link between pressure on me and activity. Well there's also a coincidental link between my activity in this game and my activity in every other game I'm in on the site, and considering the homework you do on my sitewide activity, I'm surprised you either A) Didn't notice or B) decided not to include it deliberately.

I'm talking about content. Look at the spike in words-per-post you're making. It COULD be just a townie on the defensive. Or it could be scum squirming under perceived pressure.

And you once again misconstrue at the end of it my arguments. You say "people become suspicious when they attack me". No, I contend that others have attacked me once I've branded them suspicious.

[/quote]

Which is why you were suspicious of Carto before he voted you. Wait. No. You weren't.

I skipped certain parts of the post, because either they are out-and-out strawmen, lies, or outright irrelevant. If anybody feels like I have failed to address a legitimate point McStab made besides himself, let me know. I refuse to debate somebody who persists in immature ad-homs and strawmen to make their case. Besides, I don't need to convince scum that they're scum.

@Applejack- 'kay. That's believable enough.

@DoomYoshi- You said that back when you unvoted solid and voted Defender. Why?

Sorry, in a rush. Have to go. So apologies for any vagueries or huge mistakes on my part.

[solidstate]

Uh, clarification- its ok by the site rules for me to talk about a game that was going on simultaneous to this one but ended, right?

[D3f3nd3r]

Is the game over? If so, you're fine. If not, I don't think so.

[solidstate]

Its over, yeah. Via incomplete game and various ragequits.

@AJ: Regardless of your alignment, please do not leave. Go have some pie, calm down, and return. I just "completed" another game with McStab where he also got pretty belligerent (not while being lynched, but because people were refusing to join his wagon). He claims some of it was scum strategy, but suffice it to say it makes it clear that emotional manipulation/happily pushing people to replace out is part of his meta.

[Azusa Nakano]

@AJ: Regardless of your alignment, please do not leave. Go have some pie, calm down, and return. I just "completed" another game with McStab where he also got pretty belligerent (not while being lynched, but because people were refusing to join his wagon). He claims some of it was scum strategy, but suffice it to say it makes it clear that emotional manipulation/happily pushing people to replace out is part of his meta.

^ This. Looking at his meta, it seems that being abrasive- to say the least- is something he does regardless of alignment. Personally, it's pissing me off too. But please don't leave- it's been a pleasure reading your posts and playing with you thus far, as little as I've gotten to do it, and it would really suck if you left.

Also- hey. Defender. Good to see you're here. Thoughts on McStab?

Oh, and McStab. Claim. Now. We don't have much time to get a counterwagon going if it's convincing.

[DoomYoshi]

I was just saying that RBD might be right in that solid is town. After that, I went into a bleh vote. Not a strong post at all. I still don't see any conclusions that a townie would make that a scum wouldn't by solid. My thought process exactly at the time is : soldistate is obviously very scummy, but I Might be wrong about him being scum. Make sense?

[DoomYoshi]

Also, I think it's unfair for us to be forced to deadline lynch while we are still waiting for a replacement.

[Cartographer]

Apple, I take offence to your accusations that I am fishing for the tell when I have states before the tell was discussed that I find solid town.

Did I not post my reasoning for tying people to reads and reasons in this thread?

[inte]

yeah sure man i can't change reads either. nope not allowed

So, let's see here. (My apologies for falsely claiming you'd said nothing about Rainbowdash, btw. I always think of them as Rainbow, so I didn't think to check for rbd. If I missed any other comments, let me know.)

In every earlier post in which you mention Rainbow, you either state or imply that you think they are scummy, without giving any reasoning. Now suddenly you've swung around and said that Rainbow is town, without giving any reasoning. In fact, outright refusing to. You're right. This is completely innocuous. I'm just confused- if you found a towntell strong enough to override a feeling you seem to have had for a good chunk of the game... why are you refusing to share it? How is this pro-town in any way?

Admittedly, the only way I see it benefitting intescum is distancing from a Rainbowtown lynch, that doesn't make it not weird as hell.

And I've already explained why I consider this vastly different from the instance of Nacho, although here we also have a larger sample size, thus making the sudden change even weirder. Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?

rbd is a player who needs to be scrutinized. any alignment shes a force to pay attention to.

Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?

pretty much

[inte]

So guys i just read this post:

So you've either made yourself an early kill if you're town or you're scum and you're leading town astray; neither is optimal play as town.

I find this statement to be town motivated. It correlates with his actions toward Yoshi. He does not get off Yoshi and imply like others that if he is alive we should lynch him. Here implies that with Rainbow's death. The speculation is present here, but not with Yoshi. I find that to be town.

I am willing to lynch him considering I think the other wagons other than Rainbow are likely to be on town.

I just deleted all of my post.

I hate myself.

In conclusion, the catch 22 comment from solid I think to be very town minded.

I would like the points that Asuza mentioned in reference to me be addressed.

Also, Nacho, I have been the only quantifying suspicion on Rainbow. How does that make sense for me to be scum from your point of view?

I am so conflicted.

VOTE: McStab

(L-3)

can we please lynch him

like, pretty please

[Bitmap]

Ugh, I change my mind about putting my vote on McStab.

A part of me wants to lynch him but another part tells me to go for people on his wagon.

[Bitmap]

UNVOTE:

[McStab]

Yeah I'm not claiming unless I get to L-1 and someone says intent to hammer. I'm also not endlessly debating when people actually refuse to listen to my logic because they think I'm an "abrasive" player. I say things the way I view them; if you get offended, so be it, but I really haven't attacked anyone personally beyond saying they're either "Bad scum" or "regurgitating garbage". If those insults immediately shut down your ability to logically process things, then I can't help you.

[inte]

you two

vote cartographer

(pls)

[McStab]

Why?

[Azusa Nakano]

Yeah I'm not claiming unless I get to L-1 and someone says intent to hammer.

Do I even have to explain to people how incredibly scummy that is? You're just stalling, now.

And for the record, it isn't even really the insults, although I don't see the point in them and do feel like you're attacking me for no reason. It's more the shoving words into my mouth and outright lying about things I've said and have not said.

rbd is a player who needs to be scrutinized. any alignment shes a force to pay attention to.

Find a post where I've claimed otherwise. In fact, that's part of the reason my read on her is so erratic- I KNOW she's a great player, particularly as scum. I want an explanation as to your read on her. All I wanted to know is the origin for this aboutface. I guess if I'm not going to get it, I'm not going to get it.

Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?

pretty much

No, seriously. Why do people think you're town. I don't get it.

So hey, inte, whatcha think about McStab? Because you're not getting a Carto lynch today. Would you be willing to join us on the McStab express? Bitmap, can you elaborate on that read? Are you saying that you find McStab scummy, or just a lynch of convenience? If the former, why? Which of us on the wagon do you want to go after?

I like how Defender, Bitmap, and inte all join us and proceed to almost say nothing about the colossal wagon that's built up in their absence.

[Bitmap]

Azusa, you're tunneling him so bad now.

[McStab]

I think I'm still at L-1, tbh Bitmap I don't think you were ever voting me.

Can't address Azusa's first point; nuff said.

The wagon isn't colossal anymore than a molehill is a mountain, which is what you're making it out to be. You're either scum or tunnelvisioning beyond reasonable bounds.

[Bitmap]

I was never voting for you, correct. You're still at L-1.

[McStab]

No one's claimed intent to hammer, so yeah, I'm not claiming unless that happens.