Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[qwints]

Don't iso me. Rather, read my actions in context. Look at when I said what I said, and how things were(n't) proceeding.

But guys, I was being opportunistic!

[Maenara]

Okay, fuck that. I defend myself, people tell me to give them a case. I give them a case, they tell me that I'm muddling the waters. I defend myself, they say that I need to stop doing that and give reads instead.

Dividizzle is fence-sitting scum, Enigma is lurking scum, Buldermar is either very pro-town or a SK fishing for Doc protection, Jun is also trying to fence-sit and commits to about as little as Dividizzle, qwints is town with super plus tunneling powers, Shinori is town who doesn't play to his win-condition, Telo is town with no idea how to play in general, Eleison and Smashbard are masons, Hiraki is town but doesn't care overly much about the game either, numbers is a null-read, theo is as well, NJAC is town who needs to add more to the game, mykonian is the mod and I'm frustrated.

There. Fine.

[dividizzle]

I can't read/post more until this afternoon! But I will be around then and more later today.

[Hiraki]

Maenara isn't scum and lynching him would be a bad idea.

[qwints]

UNVOTE: Maenara

Ok, Hiraki. I'll listen to you for today. Back to Shinori wagon!

VOTE: Shinori

On a side note, I was re-reading an old game which had a scum mason. Can both masons confirm that they know that their partner is town?

[qwints]

Actually wait, I can't find any breadcrumbs, at all, suggesting you're a PR with knowledge that Maenara is town. So, you're going to have to explain your post, but I'll leave my vote on Shinori to avoid a hammer until you do.

[mykonian]

Thebuttonmen offered to replace in. Thank you very much, TBM. Be nice to him, nobody likes to read 40 pages!

[buldermar]

UNVOTE: Maenara

Ok, Hiraki. I'll listen to you for today. Back to Shinori wagon!

VOTE: Shinori

On a side note, I was re-reading an old game which had a scum mason. Can both masons confirm that they know that their partner is town?

This is unnecessary - this setup does not allow for scum masons:

Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
- Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons".

[Smashbard]

Being a large normal, I dont believe scum mason is a possible role. Gonna finish my reads tonight.

[qwints]

Thanks, I'm glad that rule got added. A scum mason lost the game for town in Mafia 83.

[theomoaner]

Thank you TBM, that's saved me posting a wall of invective.

I don't know why I fall for these things but go on, Maenara, why do you think Buldermar is an SK?
I can't get why you would list Telo (now TBM) as town when earlier she was completely null because you were "expecting absolutely zilch from her" (#880).
Why has NJAC gone from the top of of your scum list to being town?

[Hiraki]

Actually wait, I can't find any breadcrumbs, at all, suggesting you're a PR with knowledge that Maenara is town. So, you're going to have to explain your post, but I'll leave my vote on Shinori to avoid a hammer until you do.

If I was PR with information, I'd fullclaim already.

Maenara isn't scummy and I don't want to type a load but I generally agree with most of his views and can accept his logic when we differ.

He's not scum.

[qwints]

Hiraki, what has Maenara done that has changed your mind from being willing to hammer to actively fighting against her lynch?

Three cheers for Thebuttonmen!

[TheButtonmen]

Thebuttonmen offered to replace in. Thank you very much, TBM. Be nice to him, nobody likes to read 40 pages!

Read 40 pages?

Ha.

Haha.

[combinatorialEnigma]

Q: Why did you not go back to voting Shinori? Considering that you initially switched to Elie, the mason claim should result in you voting Shinori again. Would you be willing to lynch Shinori? If not, why? Who would you rather see lynched: Shinori or Jun?

Okay so I finally got around to this.

I'd be willing to lynch either Jun or Shinori, but I'd prefer Jun. Jun seems to be pretty likely scum to me, whereas Shinori is just generally useless and I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he flipped town.

Reading the last few pages now.

[Maenara]

Thank you TBM, that's saved me posting a wall of invective.

I don't know why I fall for these things but go on, Maenara, why do you think Buldermar is an SK?
I can't get why you would list Telo (now TBM) as town when earlier she was completely null because you were "expecting absolutely zilch from her" (#880).
Why has NJAC gone from the top of of your scum list to being town?

I think Buldermar is a SK because I think he'd totally do that, and I've already vaguely mentioned the chance of there being one, so there has to, damnit. Also, he just feels wrong. Might be someone else instead, though. Like, uh, you.
Telo town because she hasn't slipped up yet and she would have, oh yes, she would. Not a particularly strong read, but better than nothing.
NJAC isn't scum because my reasoning on him was total bullshit and I was latching onto him because I'd neglected the game and had almost zero proper reads, and I remembered latching onto him for lurking and disappearing and such earlier on, so, given that I am, of course, omniscient, I decided that I had to have been right back then, and resumed wagoning him. Then I realized I was doing the exact same thing, and it suddenly didn't seem as scummy.

[Maenara]

*because he'd totally act massively pro-town in the hopes of nailing scum early and going on to seem conf-town while he murdered us all

[buldermar]

Welcome TBM!

Pro-town - the new anti-town behavior.

[Maenara]

Well, of course.

[combinatorialEnigma]

Welcome TBM!

Pro-town - the new anti-town behavior.

Welcome to my signature.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki, what has Maenara done that has changed your mind from being willing to hammer to actively fighting against her lynch?

I'd advise you to do some better reading.

[qwints]

I don't think I want Maenara but if the deadline gets closer, I'll hammer.

Maenara isn't scum and lynching him would be a bad idea.

Maenara isn't scummy and I don't want to type a load but I generally agree with most of his views and can accept his logic when we differ.

He's not scum.

I really don't see what I was supposed to read that explains why you were willing to hammer in 949, but said "Maenara isn't scum" in 978 and 986. What, specifically, changed your mind?

[dividizzle]

This is the second time Maenara has pulled a brand new case out against competing wagons and declared it to be the unifying case that all town could agree upon. Though it’s obviously about me, I think it should look contrived and desperate to anyone reading it. @Maenara: if you have any specific questions that you want me to address from your case feel free to ask them, rather than me picking apart the whole thing.

Aside from Maenara, Hiraki’s defense post (#978) is begging to be thought of as a power role even though he denies it. In the case that it was unintentionally misleading, it still represents what seems to me to be a flawed sense of certainty in a town-player’s mind. I do believe it was earlier in this game when I was gently admonished for claiming someone seemed town because they shared similar scum reads as me.

Also, Hiraki, you did say even if you didn’t like the Maenara lynch, you would be willing to hammer. Yet you are certain of Maenara being town, implying that there is something else to be gained from a Maenara lynch?

Anyway, back to the issue of Maenara. The creation of a new case for the second time to avoid competing wagons seems to be an attempt to appear as a unifying town figure. I also think that Maenara recognized that buldemar was suspicious of me and tried to use buldemar’s recent activity and influence in that way.

[dividizzle]

oops sorry I didn't see qwints had responded.

[Maenara]

Nope, try again.

That's quite an impressive amount of zeal and certainty, along with deviation from your usual style, for someone with only a single vote on them, though.