Open 455 - Tit for Tat - OVER

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick

[Klick]

Tell me, what of my meta have you read?

[Klick]

^.^

VOTE: Disturbed

[Klick]

Venmar, comment on stuff. We escaped RVS.

[Klick]

So what made me scum? I fail to see how you came to that conclusion.

(By the way, there's a difference between a gambit and a coin toss. Micro 32 was the latter, this was neither.)

[Klick]

Incorrect. It was a way to escape RVS.

Disturbed/Cheery 2012!

Disturbed, do you have scum meta?

[Klick]

No Disturbed, I mean of your own games.

[Klick]

Cool. I feel honored to be in your first.

[Klick]

Were you here the whole time, or did you just start reading?

[Klick]

@Mhork: You.

And Disturbed's claim that he wasn't just wagoning feels like bullshit.

[Klick]

Just curious. Your comment made me feel like you were watching the whole time.

[Klick]

Disturbed, I'm saying that it would have been better for you to just say that it was a RVS bandwagon, as that's exactly what it came across as.

[Klick]

Cheery, assumptions are based on

something

.

[Klick]

Alright, Disturbed is probably town. He wouldn't be this persistent over something pointless as scum.

VOTE: Cheery

[Klick]

-_-

First of all, you don't understand the actual meaning of gambit. This was not a gambit, it was a discussion starter.

Second, you have no reason to assume that it was a scum "gambit" at all.

Like, I could assume the scum are comb, guille, and nQ because their names aren't capitalized. That says absolutely nothing about their alignment.

[Klick]

Hmm, I guess I was wrong about the definition of gambit.

We need more people to post.

[Klick]

Mhork, I think Cheery's post was a snarky response to me, not you.

[Klick]

HerrRudi will be the late D1 lynch we end up at after days of arguing.

I'll answer questions when I get home from school.

[Klick]

VOTE: Herr I like this wagon.

[Klick]

Liar. You made a comment on A_Potato, who hadn't posted until after Page 1.

[Klick]

OH I thought that was part of your reasoning for an unvote, which would imply that you just read the rest of the game.

[Klick]

Before your second post. I thought you were claiming that you just now read it.

[Klick]

@Nekoko: His "assumption" that I was scum was bullshit, and he didn't get better over time.

Mhork, Om, I want you two to assume each other are town for now. Both of your alignments can and will be sorted out later. In the meantime, I wish for us three to mainly work together to find the scum (or the remaining scum, if either of you are).

[Klick]

Even if Mhork is scum, this is the better way to go about it.

[Klick]

no u

If I really have to explain this, it will defeat its purpose.

[Klick]

@HerrRudi: How do you know kondi?

I will respond to stuff later because I have no motivation whatsoever to do anything at all right now.

[Klick]

@MoI: You shouldn't. He was making an assumption based on absolutely nothing.

[Klick]

I'll vote Nekoko when I catch up on this game.

[Klick]

@MoI: I'm in a situation where I can't make a big post, but I think we should take role claims and CCs circumstantially.

[Klick]

No, the fakeclaiming is not going to happen. I'm talkin about what PRs do when scum fakeclaims them, etc.

[Klick]

Will do, but I can't right now.

[Klick]

Note that via meta, MoI likely could pull that off.

[Klick]

-_-

[Klick]

MoI, most cases will abide by your ideas anyway. Why not make it a case-by-case thing, just to be cautious?

[Klick]

I've been here, but this is one of the least-motivating games I'm in right now.

I'll try to read up in a second.

[Klick]

reading walls is hard

[Klick]

(By the way, I actually do have a content-based post coming up)

[Klick]

Note: A game just finished in which I self-voted in RVS to start discussion as scum. Just thought that should be clear.

I'm going to read through the game for townreads and try to catch the scum via PoE.

Alright, townreads:

Disturbed*
Cheery
Shamrock
HerrRudi*
MoI
Nekoko^

* non-negotiable
^ getting both good and bad feelings

That leaves:

A_Potato
guille
Mhork
nQ
Venmar

I'm pretty sure that A_Potato and Mhork are not a team. Therefore, there's at least 2 scum in {guille, nQ, Venmar} if I'm right.

VOTE: nQ

#126
#138
#172

[Klick]

Bitmap's joke was funnier than mine.

[Klick]

Wait... Bitmap, who did you replace?

[Klick]

Oh VOTE: Bitmap

[Klick]

The townread on Cheery is now non-negotiable.

[Klick]

Newer players are generally more cocky and aggressive as scum. They also refrain from giving townreads easily. His unvote for Disturbed was good.

This is also the reason I'm reading HerrRudi as town.

[Klick]

I really don't see the need for explanation of strong town reads unless they're close to being lynched.

If I had to choose two between guille, Bitmap, and Venmar, it would be Bitmap and Venmar. However, they could all three be scum.

[Klick]

Complete PoE, plus a post i forgot where it went

I feel really bad right now, not going to be able to respond to this game pro[erly.

[Klick]

What a wonderful wagon hop.

[Klick]

Answering those when I get out of school, but I will say that I have a feeling you know those are pretty terrible scumtells.

[Klick]

...okay?

[Klick]

MoI, most cases will abide by your ideas anyway. Why not make it a case-by-case thing, just to be cautious?

Because you can’t provide a single scenario where it is not the most Pro-Town manner to treat claiming. Scum are greatly constrained in what they can hope to accomplish if Town follows my rules.

Frankly your “there should be exceptions to be cautious” reads as scum who hate having their hands-tied when fake-claiming.

Klick also earns scum-points for Post 241 where he coat-tails Potato’s apathy post with one of his own in a very weak / fake way.

How about we decide if we're following your rules when a claim happens instead of blindly following them? This isn't some dictatorship. You haven't provided a single scenario where deciding upon the claim happening not the most Pro-Town matter to treat claiming.

I also can't see how my suggestion to take it case-by-case could possibly come across as scummy to you. Again, you're not a dictator.

Seeing as I've posted before that that I'm incredibly demotivated, I'm

probably

not faking apathy.

@Klick

– did you think Post 246 would earn you Town cred for “Lulz, scum would never be that cheeky”?

This is what I meant by "I think you know this is bullshit." Jokes are scumtells now?

What a wonderful wagon hop.

Why did you feel the need to weasel-word this up Klick? I’ve just moved my vote to one of your Town reads. You seem afraid to actually call it scummy. Why is that?

I hadn't seen you accusing me

or

Herr before that point. I wanted to see if you would give an actual reason to switch.


Everything you just accused me of is incredibly weak, and I can't see you being confident in me being scum based on it.

[Klick]

Cool. Bitmap's scum.

[Klick]

Nope. You're getting lynched today.

[Klick]

umad bro

[Klick]

Clever.

Bitmap, I want your opinion of the following players: MoI, Venmar, Mhork

PEdit: no

[Klick]

Bitmap you're fun :3

[Klick]

UNVOTE: Did you actuslly think I could get a read on you off of one post?

You're leaning town. Don't screw up.

Why is Venmar town?

PEdit: Absolutely no clue. He's in my Top Five via PoE.

[Klick]

I hadn't seen you accusing me or Herr before that point. I wanted to see if you would give an actual reason to switch.

Well maybe if you read the thread you would see posts where I question both of you indicating my suspicion of your slots.

And let’s turn that back right at you … you have yet to show any suspicion of me UNTIL I draw you under fire. Why is that?

Questioning is not indicative of suspicion. In both cases.

Look at the rest of what you posted and see if it's actually suspicious. I can't be "caught for the wrong reasons" if I'm not

caught

.

[Klick]

I question people I'm unsure of. Which pretty much means everyone.

[Klick]

I assume that he means questions that are one word in length.

[Klick]

Klick is still scum. Look at Post 359 … he pops in to one-line a response that is meaningless to scum-hunting. Classic active-lurking and when combined with the lack of actual scum-hunting in his ISO is a recipe for rope. But if partner Nekoko needs to go first so be it.

VOTE: MoI

(Expecting the response "You waited for me to unvote before you voted. Classic scum avoiding an OMGUS vote.")

[Klick]

MoI, summarize what I've done that is scummy.

[Klick]

MoI, summarize what I've done that is scummy.

[Klick]

MoI, I want you to do it so that everyone can see how insignificant your points are.

[Klick]

Nekoko, MoI has a meta of leading

regardless of alignment

.

Phone post, blah blah.

[Klick]

I kinda just skimmed over this, and I don't have time to fully respond, but the thing about the three post numbers is that they were posts that I noted at the end of my post during my read for being suspicious. I forgot to comment on them.

The summary of why MoI is scum is that everything he's accusing me of is either not scummy or overexxagerated, and MoI is smart enough to know it. Especially after I pointed it out (which he also said was a scum move).

[Klick]

Since when are you in this game?

[Klick]

Oh cool.

You're not exactly making your slot look better than it already did. Do better.

No time for the case on MoI tonight. I would be willing to just settle it with a 1v1, though.

[Klick]

So does that mean you're willing, MoI?

(Also, "active-lurking non-scum hunting content" takes absolutely no time )

[Klick]

Cool. VOTE: Klick

[Klick]

It's called a 1v1.

[Klick]

I sacrifice myself to get MoI lynched after my death.

[Klick]

Hey new guy, when I flip town, are you willing to lynch MoI tomorrow, abiding by our 1v1?

[Klick]

On the off chance that I flip town, you will keep your vote on MoI tomorrow. Agreed?

[Klick]

Answer the question. I want confirmation for tomorrow.

[Klick]

grey, I'm confident in MoI-scum. MoI is apparently confident in me-scum, and has appeared to agree with me that a 1v1 is a good idea.

Therefore, let the 1v1 go. And don't let MoI back out of it.

PEdit: the director, fucking answer whether you will vote MoI tomorrow if I flip town.

[Klick]

So does that mean you're willing [to 1v1], MoI?

Of course. I’m confident in my scum read of you. So you going to self-vote to make it happen?

I've also already explained multiple times that MoI knows that the scumtells he's using against me are bullshit.

[Klick]

Why does it matter at this point? We've both already agreed that it's happening.

[Klick]

Not quick lynching; lynching. You can still discuss stuff.

[Klick]

To get MoI lynched afterward.

[Klick]

For the record, I have self-voted to get someone else lynched as town before.

[Klick]

Kay

[Klick]

Hmm.

VOTE: Bitmap

If I get to L-1, I'll hammer myself. In other words, MoI and guille have the choice.

[Klick]

Mhork, remember Masons and Mafia? It's like that.

[Klick]

I was a Mason and was 100% confident that the last two mafia were in {Rach, Elmo, you, Chimera}, the last two of which being the actual mafia. So I claimed Mason and told everyone the game plan to lynch everyone in the list. They proceeded to lynvh Rach and Elmo, but stopped right when they were about to lynch you guys.

[Klick]

As I've said, his points against me are complete BS and he knows it.

[Klick]

Hmm?

I admit that I probably would WIFOM on a self-hammer like this as scum, but I probably would have never gotten into an argument with MoI in the first place unless I was bussing.

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick

MoI himself agreed to the 1v1. Hold him to it. If you all won't abide by it, at least look at him under the premise that I'm town and am pretty damn confident that he's scum.

And don't you

dare

give MoI Townie points for agreeing to the 1v1. I doubt he thought it would actually go through, either.

Cheery, Disturbed, and greygnarl are all definitely town. Never lynch them.

It's not as big a suspicion, but A_P is a good partner for MoI.