Mafiastuck (GAME OVER TOWN WINS!)

[xtopherusD]

honk :o)

...

i MEAN, uH, cONFIRM,

[xtopherusD]

That's a challenge

Purposefully not knowing what you're doing involves knowing what you're doing.

[xtopherusD]

Epic, I don't know what you are doing or why you are doing it but it would be mighty fine if you could not do it.

[xtopherusD]

:33 < of course its purrple!

[xtopherusD]

Can you get a quicktopic between yourself or something, please?

[xtopherusD]

Who is up for doing 20?

33! :33

D --> 100

[xtopherusD]

Who is up for doing 20?

33! :33

D --> 100

[xtopherusD]

There are a lot of bad jokes in this thread.

Try stabbing them.

[xtopherusD]

I'll start with less pressing matters.

Xtoph also has similar posting that feels forced.

Which post(s) did you feel were forced? I've got seven posts, three of which I used the posting quirk of a troll (Gamzee/Tavros, Nepeta, Equius).
The other four posts were a small comment on Vifam's remark, a request for Epic to stop being ridiculous, a similar request but with a hint more snark, and a joke about Noir's username/avatar, based on the comic.
The quirk posts are forced, but I'm not going to post serious things like a troll does.
The other four are how I talk? My friends say I speak almost too formally but with just enough sarcasm, so if you see that kind of posting, I'm just saying things as I would aloud.

Your username is easily the worst out of the bunch.

Umm, no?  :? Do you

see

xtopherusD, ζ, torgonitoh, and BroodKingEXE? And some other weird ones.

Oh, he's got an X in his name! What are we going to do??
Calling me xtoph works. Calling me Topher works. Heck, go with a name like combinatorialEnigma's and call me Skaia. I won't mind.


But, on to more serious business...
Vifam's posts are awfully flighty and detached. He seems to just post thoughts and passing remarks about anything he decides to, and I don't think that's helpful to the Town. And it's not just a lack of quantity, but the quality is pretty bad, too. There hasn't really been a shift between confirmation phase and Day 1. So I
VOTE: Vifam

Alsark's claim is odd. Pandorica's claim is odd. I don't believe either of them, but the reasons they claimed these things are still something to consider.

Context

: Alsark's post was after Strider had asked to be replaced, and he had said "Welp, Strider rolled vanilla townie". People called him out on baseless role spec, and he claimed this power. He then went on to ask "Anybody that's scum want to be converted to Town?" - which Alsark must know no one would respond to. It was a joke. It was also, in the slightest way, scumfishing - if someone had requested to be converted, they're claiming to scum and we lynch them. Unlikely but possible. But it was mainly a joke.

Context

: Pandorica's PR claim was after triple posting twice. No one called him on it, he just said "(I have a post restriction ... )". Then never did it again. It was a joke about how he kept adding things to the posts he made.


A bunch of posts have come in while writing this, they don't look repliable but I'll read them in a sec.

[xtopherusD]

That was longer than expected. Here the best bit (which even then is pretty mediocre):

Vifam's posts are awfully flighty and detached. He seems to just post thoughts and passing remarks about anything he decides to, and I don't think that's helpful to the Town. And it's not just a lack of quantity, but the quality is pretty bad, too. There hasn't really been a shift between confirmation phase and Day 1.

[xtopherusD]

That's fine. The rest was basically:
"They were in jest. Get over it."

[xtopherusD]

Xtoph Vifam doesn't read as scum at all.

Okay, noted?

Also I don't understand why you took so much time and effort to analyze jokes?

There was little to no effort in posting those few sentences. A quarter of it was direct quotes from their posts. Half was summarised from the post(s) they'd made previously. The other quarter was so simple it nearly hurts that I had to say it.

I haven't nearly spent as much time as some other people have on Alsark's joke. I don't understand why you're calling me out on taking "so much" of

my

time and

my

"effort" to say what I wanted to say.

[xtopherusD]

I haven't nearly spent as much time as some other people have on Alsark's joke. I don't understand why you're calling me out on taking "so much" of my time and my "effort" to say what I wanted to say.

Because you really could've focusd on something that was more productive. Here it just looks like you are trying to gain towncred by analyzing stuff when it's really not helpful to the town at all when all you conclude is that the claims were a joke. You know, town's posts come from town thought, and I would very much like to understand why chose to focus on those specific things and analyze them.

Again, it's how I talk.

Where most will say "Guys get over it, it looks like Alsark was joking", I will say what I think and tell you why I think it. So my posts will be {evidence and conclusion} so another player can post {agreement or disagreement}, instead of {conclusion} then {questioning} then {evidence}. It ends up taking less time (in theory), plus it helps me to organise my thoughts both while posting and while reading through the thread.

I won't post random thoughts or baseless arguments. If I don't know why I think something, I work out why I do. If I can't work out why, I don't voice that opinion.

[xtopherusD]

In Day One of any game, my posts do tend to include a whole lot of nothing. There usually isn't a whole lot of anything to make conclusions from, so I don't have a lot to say I believe. Also not helping with the current content level is the fact that we are only seven hours into the game, and so nearly half of the players haven't posted anything since day start.

So, it does sound "retarded and scumlike", but that's how it is.

[xtopherusD]

that would be fine except it's missing the central point which is that he's focusing on things which are meaningless

Point me to something meaning

ful

and I'll look at that, then. Everything in this thread looks pretty equal to me, but that was the thing that had most recently come up. People were talking about the bandwagon on Alsark. I commented on the votes on Alsark. My comment was three sentences rather than one. Then people say I'm overanalysing. I said the same thing as torgonitoh did, just with more words.

And with using people's real names and not things like "skymans".
@torgonitoh/wutlolski: I'm not entirely sure, was that Titan? Is Titan skyman?

[xtopherusD]

honk :o)

...

i MEAN, uH, cONFIRM,

dont do this ever

okay from this post forward you post in a troll gimmick and you get on my shitlist i dont care if it's not productive you need to speak english

I'll keep it to the confirmation phase, then.

everyone give me a read on Alduskkel and on top of that tell me your prime suspects unless we're still wading in RVS bullshit because i dont see anything that doesn't point to it

Alduskkel hasn't posted since game start, but before that he: Threatened to vote the mod, and to vote Alsark (note: before the power claim). Discourages voicing of town reads, and rolespec (including but not limited to hinting at your own role) - fairly standard Mafia guidelines for this stage. Confused by torgonitoh's post, possibly the vote but most likely the butchered English. Comments that he can't respond to vague replies to, or comments about him.
I think that his comment about voting the mod is purely based off flavour (I would not trust Andrew Hussie as a mod of this game). I think his not-quite-vote on Alsark is firmly grounded - Alsark is pointing out confirmed Town (no matter how illogically), which is something that helps scum more than town. The standard advice serves as help to newer players and a reminder to more experienced players.
Overall, slightly town for discouraging unhelpful behaviour and for pointing out an example of such.

[xtopherusD]

players like xtopher who are desperately grasping to not get read in a way that deems him in a bad light and something i cant condone is trying to excuse what you post because you should be aware of it and you dont need to make excuses for it.

My posting of how I play

is

being aware of it, and making sure others can be aware of it, too. I realised that I have to remember that I am "different", and was giving a forewarning of what I'm going to be like in this game. And I keep "excusing" what I post because people keep attacking me for it. If you don't want me to tell you why I'm "overanalysing" or "focusing on things which are meaningless", don't ask.

[xtopherusD]

EBWOP:

when we're down a better sum and ive seen some flips then ill really get into things

Isn't this just a pre-emptive excuse as to why you won't be "getting into things" and therefore will be "deem[ed] in a bad light".

[xtopherusD]

EBWOP:

when we're down a better sum and ive seen some flips then ill really get into things

Isn't this just a pre-emptive excuse as to why you won't be "getting into things" and therefore will be "deem[ed] in a bad light"?

[xtopherusD]

(I'm slightly back. Halfway home with some WiFi so I'll try reading the thread in the next five hours' drive )

[xtopherusD]

NOTE: This post is designed to be Post #953, but based on activity there are probably going to be ninjas all around me. I haven't read their posts.

There is too much one-lining in this thread that I can't discern a coherent thing on my phone. When I am home I might try to make a no-crap version of the thread and let you know what I think. For now you get a bunch of notes from my readthrough.

Re: buldermar's claim

The person who claimed scum (too many names all at once right now) claimed to be reaction-testing? Then "unclaimed" (whichever person made this a thing that happened or anything is completely confused) and deduced that DeasVail (or the other one?) is probably scum for what he did.
As someone else said, Town gambits are really terrible, no matter what they are. I think this one is especially bad because the public reactions to a scum claim are no different coming from Town or from Scum. Town thinks

What the hell is he doing

while scum thinks

What the hell is he doing he's not in my scumteam

(leaving out the last part in thread of course). Plus all this was within the span of like 15 minutes anyway. No good or accurate anything goes for 15 minutes.
Also: It's ironic that using a different colour makes it easier for us to see which parts of the game to ignore. Actually, could you all just post useless stuff in red? That'd be really nice

Re: Phillamon and his reads

I liked Phillamon's (???) reads list. It means he's actually putting effort into the game! People mentioned he could be just parroting and it's of course a possibility. Just another thing to be wary of, but until there's some evidence that he's probably not trying all that hard (or trying to sabotage things) he's good with me.

Re: Cheery Dog and

his

list of... reads...

Cheery Dog posted a list of nulls? That's all well and good but I think I would like to see where all the other people sit (i.e. the people who are leaning town/leaning scum). Posting null reads is a very safe bet - there is no evidence to post as to why they are null... Because the reason they're null is that there are no tells in their posts. If Cheery Dog could maybe give us something more substantial that people could actually comment on please?
Added later note: Posting null reads is also safe because it's something that everyone will agree with. Getting people to start being comfortable with agreeing with you is another thing you are kind of doing.

Re: torgonitoh / wutlolski

And I reckon that if torgonitoh ends up being scum and surviving to endgame and winning... I won't even be mad. I'll probably keep on reading this game until he's gone even if I'm dead. As long as he keeps using unique and recognisable names

Re: Paschendale's replacement

Oh yeah also I forgot about Paschendale. I reckon that's a natural town reaction... For like the first few games. Being around for so long and still acting like this is just wrong. But I don't know if it's a towntell or scumtell or even a tell at all. Plus I really don't like when replacements come in to animosity and a million votes.

Re: Porfervor's gun (and everyone else's, too)

More notes I keep remembering:
Porfervor needs to stop talking about this gun. I don't really know when exactly he claimed to have a gun, but since then his posts have been all about that and I don't know if it's funny enough to warrant not being helpful.
And speaking of this, two things:
1. Can everyone please stop speaking to everyone like "you deserve to be shot/lynched" or just "Die."? I mean firstly it sounds terrible, but you're also subconsciously giving yourself the idea that you are 100% correct and jumping to saying these things makes it harder for you to see other arguments/reason.
2. Everyone needs to stop

assuming

there is a Vig. There are other ways to balance a large game and keep it at a good pace. There doesn't need to be a vig, let alone a dayvig. Unless there's been a serious claim that I have missed, it'd be great to not be reading all these assumption posts

That's what I've remembered about what I thought reading through the second half of the thread. On a preview it's ridiculously long so I'll throw some headings on there do you can jump to stuff you think is important / stuff that has to do with you. Have fun probably continuing arguing, I need to rest :/

[xtopherusD]

If it stops me from hearing about your empty threats to shoot people then yes.

[xtopherusD]

this mans

is oracle mans

As someone else said, Town gambits are really terrible, no matter what they are. I think this one is especially bad

how you know is town gambit


?

Because I'm an oracle. =P

I didn't mean for the phrasing to imply that the gambit originated from Town. While it's always a possibility, it was more meant to say that I thought buldermar, being more experienced than I, should know this kind of thing. That's why it's confusing: buldermar must know all the implications of a claiming scum gambit, yet still does it. The follow-on sentence from what you quoted should be something like "buldermar should know this. There has to be something here that he knows. What is it?? Why can't he tell us??"

[xtopherusD]

Ohhhh. Fox and the Hound?

Now, Cheery Dog is always going on about not prying into people's town reads or the reasons for them... However, he himself has effectively listed 17 people he finds to be more Town than Scum - in a way, his town reads. He has refrained from posting the reasons behind it, so there's a positive there...
Besides, it's completely non-committal. Cheery Dog's "reads" are essentially "

Null

: People who haven't posted;

Not null

: Everyone else". Cheery Dog?

I've just seen I'm still voting Vifam
UNVOTE: Vifam
But until Cheery Dog doesn't answer to this, my vote doesn't yet belong anywhere.

[xtopherusD]

The last line means my vote will be going to you if you cannot convince me otherwise

I agree that the only possible read on non-posters is a null one. However, I don't think a natural reaction to the remainder is not having a single scumread ("If I actually had names to give you, I wouldn't be voting the person that claimed scum.") while the remainder are town ("people missing from this list [of non-posters] are my townreads").

Also, you didn't respond to the first part of that post. Why are you posting against asking about townreads here before willingly (to the extent of "in your next post after being asked") posting your own??

[xtopherusD]

I think I agree with Robocopter here ( :O ). It's almost as if you're saying to the mods "You're not doing this quickly enough but it's okay because I'm here". Even if that's not the intent, that is how many people could read it.

[xtopherusD]

Also, you didn't respond to the first part of that post. Why are you posting against asking about townreads here before willingly (to the extent of "in your next post after being asked") posting your own??

I have nothing against people stating their townreads, and find that is in fact helpful, however giving the reasons for the townreads I believe is more useful for scum.

I don't think I've heard that view before. I always have thought that posting who you think is "towniest" just gives scum an idea of how to cause the most damage with their night kill. Why does town want to know town's townreads??

Also... If knowing people's townreads is helpful to the town, why did you post a nulllist and not a townlist?

[xtopherusD]

If you've already given who you think is Town, isn't it more helpful for people to be able to contest why you think that? If you've thought one way about something and you've thought about it wrong in some way, wouldn't you want to know, to then be more helpful to the town?

Then...

You're taking Porfervor seriously??
And do null players deserve to be killed for neither being town nor scum?
Also, it's a pretty long list. Wouldn't you agree that it would be preferable to keep a null list as minimal as possible, even if you have to completely change your reads?

[xtopherusD]

If I feel it is required for me to give reasons, then yes, otherwise no.

What kind of situation calls for you to feel "required" to give reasons? What drastic thing would have to happen for you to decide that you want to attest to your read??

I was dayvigged recently in another game by someone I didn't believe, and since that happened I am currently believable of those who apparently claim vig.
I will lower my null list when it gets possible, currently there are too many inactives to get clear reads.

I think I've essentially become the dayvig fodder if Porfervor is able to turn on someone who doesn't believe him/them, Dog.
There

has

to be a point where people who are staying in the null list too long start being scummy for staying out of the radar. And the thing is, you've been doing exactly that for some time now! And when confronted about it, you've stayed indecisive and vague about things. Is there seriously

no one

that you would see lynched other than someone who decided to claim scum?? Or Nacho... who you have "bad vibes" about.

[xtopherusD]

I did have the same bad vibes when I read the post, and looking over his ISO, I couldn't find where I actually had good vibes coming from him.

"hi nacho is scum for calling him town and then calling him scum"
"oh wait nacho is scum, i was wrong when I called him town"
GET OUT
YOU ARE SCUM

oh yeah and the fact that you find me scummy for doing what you did (except I actually gave reasons for one of my switches, I think)

I never called you town, I had thought there were some good vibes from somewhere else beforehand (but I think it might have been someone else's post) which is why you were in the null list and not out by yourself in a scum section.

Got ninja'd by this. The real problem here is the lack of a "scum section" altogether!

What do you think of Nacho?? Is he good or is he evil? Give me two words. The first will be "He's" and the second has to be four letters. There, you don't have to make a decision on how to say it, at least.

[xtopherusD]

@Cheery Dog.
So your main scumreads are Nachomamma and Paschendale? Are they just so terrible that a vig shot is too humane for them to go?? I guess they're just

so

horrible that nothing short of a lynch mob can truly put them to justice, then?

And you cannot be serious about the doubly-aligned hydra idea. What the hell do you think of Titan? Don't fucking tell me he's cake.

[xtopherusD]

You didn't think that in the confirmation phase post. Here is what Titan's second (???) head said:

He [the first head] sometimes says things without thinking and speculates about the setup far too much.

You said

So half your hydra is scum?

Can you honestly tell me that that post was not a joke? Because your #1001 implies that it was not. Your #1005 also hints that you picked up on different "vibes", when it's clearly seen right here that Titan's "good" head pointed you straight to them.

And now that Titan's done this strange vote-switching thing, why are you even calling back to the confirmation phase? [#1001] What does your joke suspicion from back then have to do with who you seriously think is scum now??

[xtopherusD]

I agree that the confirmation phase is as much a part of this game as anything else. However, answering a current question with a reference to something that was over 900 posts ago and with no visible continuation is nearly as bad as dodging a question or ignoring it altogether.

How did the joke become serious? What kind of a sick joke is this??
And how do you know that Titan's Rational Head^TM won't come along and change your mind again??

So do you think that Titan is scum? This is a yes/no question.
If yes, why is the two-headed dilemma so vital two being up? If not, why did you say that you would be "happy for them to be lynched as well"?



buldermar. This would probably be correct. I have not had a chance to read through what happened again. However, the faction of the deduction is not the issue here. The issue is the deduction, and the way you went about achieving it.

[xtopherusD]

Could you quote the part you find problematic?

No, I actually couldn't! It's the entire thing! All of your posts between 773 until like 854 are this gambit thing! Which if you're town is just terribad!

As I said. Reaction fishing can never be in any way safe. And you did a quick and dirty 90 minute fish that caught you a single suspected Town read.
(and you can see some of my other posts about my views on townhunting :/ )

[xtopherusD]

How did the joke become serious?

It became serious because I actually started considering Titan possible scum. If I am considering someone possible scum, all my interactions with them become more serious even if they weren't at the time.

Trains of thought do not work in retrospect ever. Nor does seriousness. Old jokes don't become serious when you want them to. Don't come out with crap like that again.

And how do you know that Titan's Rational Head^TM won't come along and change your mind again??

I don't, that's the fun trying to figure out the alignment of a hydra. (and if the rational head does change my mind again, the question will have become a joke again (you can still consider it a joke now if you like, but in my mind it's currently a serious question)

What the hell question are you on about? Also... Even though it's two people posting, it's still the one player. "figuring out the alignment of a hydra" should be the same as "figuring out the alignment of a player". There should be no difference in the way you read them. You cannot vote for just Arthur, or for just Tammy, so you can't treat them as separate players.

So do you think that Titan is scum? This is a yes/no question.
If yes, why is the two-headed dilemma so vital two being up? If not, why did you say that you would be "happy for them to be lynched as well"?

Yes.
and I don't understand what else you are asking here, so also yes to that.

The second question was not a yes/no question, but I'll attribute your ignorance to my auto correct. The sentence should read
"If yes, why is the two-headed dilemma so vital to bring up now?"
Since you think that Titan is scum, why did you feel the need to mention your early post about Titan's heads' alignments??

[xtopherusD]

How did the joke become serious?

It became serious because I actually started considering Titan possible scum. If I am considering someone possible scum, all my interactions with them become more serious even if they weren't at the time.

Trains of thought do not work in retrospect ever. Nor does seriousness. Old jokes don't become serious when you want them to. Don't come out with crap like that again.

And how do you know that Titan's Rational Head^TM won't come along and change your mind again??

I don't, that's the fun trying to figure out the alignment of a hydra. (and if the rational head does change my mind again, the question will have become a joke again (you can still consider it a joke now if you like, but in my mind it's currently a serious question)

What the hell question are you on about? Also... Even though it's two people posting, it's still the one player. "figuring out the alignment of a hydra" should be the same as "figuring out the alignment of a player". There should be no difference in the way you read them. You cannot vote for just Arthur, or for just Tammy, so you can't treat them as separate players.

So do you think that Titan is scum? This is a yes/no question.
If yes, why is the two-headed dilemma so vital two being up? If not, why did you say that you would be "happy for them to be lynched as well"?

Yes.
and I don't understand what else you are asking here, so also yes to that.

The second question was not a yes/no question, but I'll attribute your ignorance to my auto correct. The sentence should read
"If yes, why is the two-headed dilemma so vital to bring up now?"
Since you think that Titan is scum, why did you feel the need to mention your early post about Titan's heads' alignments??

[xtopherusD]

Tazaro has now triple posted crap (that really doesn't need to be said), switched votes without any explanation (because they couldn't be bothered reading torgonitoh's posts [even after being all like "You'd be surprised at how much I've read the thread look at me I'm amazing"]), and just generally spammed.

BUt_[sic] it's not just me that there's been spam for days.

Guess who does that scum

, like torgonitoh.

I'll just leave this here, then?

*slithers away once more*

[xtopherusD]

Oh yeah and I haven't said anything about Cheery Dog.

After all that I think his logic is sound. He really should be putting a lot more effort into the game, but I think that everything he said kinda fits and is just lazy town.

@Cheery: I know you play mysterious and aloof just to avoid getting hurt... Don't.

[xtopherusD]

Ouch, I feel pain! The pain consumes me and I feel it! I am overwhelmed with the pain of a single non-vote! My pain is painful and

Yeah okay

Why are you wanting to kill me? This is the problem with this game. Everyone just acts as if they can kill whomever they please for whatever reason they don't come up with.
So yeah. Question. Above.

P-Edit: Yeah just remove the 'non-' from the first bit.

[xtopherusD]

oh my gog im being surrounded by people who

still aren't telling me the problem!

This happened when I voted Vifam, too! What is wrong with you people??

[xtopherusD]

(it actually is the first time Pandorica)


In response to all the "your post is bad and you should feel bad"... Well, thanks Maenara for some explanation, at least.
All I'm saying is that Tazaro shouldn't be jumping in and pointing out things that are wrong with other people while simultaneously and at the same time doing the same thing, just in a different form.
Also doing things like not bothering to read a user's posts is just being difficult. And I don't think that being difficult can find the people we have to get rid of?

[xtopherusD]

Null/Weak Scum

xtopherusD-

Complete focus on defence in 62 is scummy.

Guh?

[xtopherusD]

That makes a little more sense. (link for those who want to read it)

I'm not sure there was a complete focus on defense in that post? It was my first non-confirmation-phase post, and I had just seen that Titan had mentioned me a couple times. I wanted to clear the water there (which was simply about "forced posting" and "annoying username").
Then I voted.
Then I posted of the strange claims found in the confirmation phase.

For a start, a vote is not focused on defence...
But is the rest of that post really too defensive? I'd say that that's one of the least defensive posts I've made, so I don't know what that says to you

[xtopherusD]

Again... Defending myself? Where?

...

Other.. than.. here.
You sly fox.

[xtopherusD]

Oh.

I hope you've noticed the post where I explained that a bit more? I "was giving a forewarning of what I'm going to be like in this game" and on the site. Note this is my first game here; I was just pointing out that the "forced posting" was most likely going to just be normalposting!

[xtopherusD]

Also emoticons. I use them a fair amount too, apparently.

[xtopherusD]

:33 < look at that post!

[xtopherusD]

Okay, so nearly half the playerlist is voting for one of Tazaro and Cheery Dog.

If we wanted a lynch on anyone except them, we would need all of the other players to vote for one person. And with five people (probably) being replaced, it's not going to happen.

It's been a week. There have been 45 pages posted in that time. We've squeezed day one almost completely dry. We need a lynch.

And it's essentially now impossible for it to be anyone except for Tazaro. So far all the players voting for him have posted and not unvoted since the replace.

[

Zeta (

!

)*, AurorusVox (

!

), Pandorica (

!

), Phillammon (

!

), torgonitoh, Noir, Titan (

!

), Porfervor (

!

), BT (

!

), Sunshine and Rainbows (

!

)

]

I don't think there's any other option.

VOTE: Tazaro

And that's still only L-5. If we want to continue the day then we can still continue the day. I just think it's getting ridiculous is all.

* The (

!

) means they've voted Taz, or definitively reaffirmed their vote on his slot, since then.

Woah, okay, ninja'd by a vote off Tazaro and onto... AurorusVox. Who now has two votes. You've got to be kidding me.

[xtopherusD]

There are way too many posts. There are now up to 5 people being replaced out, and we know at least one of them has asked to be replaced due to the length of the thread.

Replacements aren't fun to deal with. I mean, for a start... they have to read through all of the thread in one go, and I know how hard and brain-frying even 17 pages was. And it's worse in this game than others, because there is such a terrible signal-to-noise ratio.

I think we just need to get into playing the game, and get over the one-liners and the pointlessness and the difficulty of reading. And I believe that that can start to be achieved by moving into N1. After some real stuff happens, then we can talk.

[xtopherusD]

Titan's vote for AurorusVox implied unvoting Tazaro.

[xtopherusD]

Posting as much as possible that could be helpful to Town might be counted as "spam posting", even though it is useful.

[xtopherusD]

Does red cheery make sense nacho (or disagree with titan)?

Red?

[xtopherusD]

Just on my phone at the moment, so quoting and thorough reading won't be happening for a few hours. But I'm going to try to explain a little on a few things I picked up on in my skimming...

I didn't roleblock Porfervor. I'm not a roleblocker, and Porfervor isn't a Vig. I never believed they were. You can see that in my posts, if you decided to read up on it. Being killed by Porf wasn't a thing I was worried about.

About me not posting? It's as simple as my living in a different timezone. If people were awake at the same time as me then I could post more. Remember my questioning of Cheery Dog? I think I posted a decent amount there. He's in a similar timezone. I was able to post multiple posts without triple posting at any stage.
And then if I bring up something from three pages ago (see: when I was not even awake from the last night), there's the general consensus of "he's talking about useless and now redundant things". And when I feel like I can't post right, I will post less. I've already said things along these lines

I'm also liking the sudden scum reads on me today, just because of Porf's post. I mean, I was leaning town (a little) from Titan yesterday, and after that night and that one post I'm apparently his biggest scum read. I haven't looked at it properly yet, but it seems like its going to be interesting.

Also: Noir didn't say very much about anyone, IIRC. I will also read up on that.
As a terrible site note, I also like how "> Jack: Be Hearts Boxcars" makes more sense here than anywhere else


As I said, on a computer later today, so I'll read through and talk about things other than me in six hours or so. I'll probably also talk about myself to some extent but that can't be helped.

[xtopherusD]

Question: Does everybody agree that we don't want to mislynch?
If you answered no, screw you. But if you answered yes, you'll agree that we don't want to lynch town.

How do we avoid lynching Town? We make sure that scummy things actually originate from scum. How does that happen? Discussion. What's the core of discussion? Having substance to discuss. Why do I bring this up now? Well...

I still want xtoph dead after his 958.

This is useless. 958 was a long post. Saying "it means he should die" cannot lead to discussion. No discussion means a higher chance of a mislynch.

So, Maenara. In the interests of the Town, what is the problem you do have with that post?

[xtopherusD]

Oh, sorry. I always read the 'W' as "worst" rather than Weak.

You can scratch that point, then. Thanks Titan.

[xtopherusD]

Ack. That was Zdenek not Maenara. That post that I addressed to Maen is actually @Zdenek.

Brood I have mentioned that I can't read the thread very well at all at the moment so I'm not mentioning everything. People voting me for the Tazaro vote is a big point that I don't want to skim over on my phone. Give me a couple of hours.


Yeah I'm going to leave this thread alone until I can read everything properly and not respond to things that people haven't said.

[xtopherusD]

Xtoph: Regarding 1536, why wouldn't you just say that since we don't want a mislynch, we shouldn't lynch you?

You mean to tell me that if I were to say I would be a mislynch, you'd believe me and move on?

Saying it how I did meant that Zdenek and the rest of the players could read and see where I'm coming from. I phrased it in an objective way so that no matter who you believe is scum you will agree that Zdenek's comment was not actually helpful. Everything I said in that post is common knowledge. If I say "I am Town", that's not common knowledge (and therefore has no basis), doesn't help anyone, and is just as bad as what I was trying to call out.

[xtopherusD]

I do like the idea of Felt malpascalp. Especially with posts like 713, 731 ("oh but it wasn't very strong so I don't really mind if he's lynched"), 1204 (as you noted, Z). But your going on about it is getting on my nerves and making me think either a) You're making a big deal out of nothing or b) You're scum with him and bussing him as hard as possible. Or both, they work together.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised on a {Tazaro/Pandorica/malpascp/Zeta/buldermar} Felt team. malp's interactions with Taz/Pasch and Pandorica are surprisingly similar to those with buldermar. Z manages to not ever say a single thing on buld's claim. buldermar manages to never comment on Zeta. Zeta manages to not comment on Cheery Dog until D2 (meaning there's been a night for scumchat) when buldermar starts pushing CD, even then only saying he's a suboptimal lynch [and 1595 reinforces this idea]. buldermar only started pushing CD after Pandorica couldn't any more.

But continuing with malp: Pandorica's 405 and 430 (both Nexus) are extremely similar reactions to Paschendale and malpascp.

I could continue but I can't think straight any more so I may be back at some stage. But for now, I'll humour ζ and
VOTE: malpascp

[xtopherusD]

Also:

xtoph,

are you an alt?

No. Why do you ask?

[xtopherusD]

>o>

Gorram Australians.

[xtopherusD]

I understand that there is no way that anyone could come to that conclusion with any sort of certainty. Nor that I could currently convince you of it. So I voted malpascp because the rest of that thought will probably need to be looked into, but not now.

So. I get it's silly. But I thought I might mention what I was thinking. Better now than when I'm right on being killed. Was also a thing I wanted to mention before malpascp is lynched.

[xtopherusD]

You said when you get back you were going to address some of the points made against you. This post has none of that, you say you are open for discussion, but you avoid it when it involves scum reads on you. My question that remains unanswered is: why you voted for Tazaro when you believed he wasn't scum? Your reasoning was that D1 was squeezed dry, but that means you think you have enough information to come up with a scum reads. From my perspective your vote post looks very much like a scum bus.

The first problem here is that I said I'd do this when I got back

to a computer

, which has not been able to happen for any sustained length of time yet.
The second (and main) problem is that you've misread my final D1 post. I never meant to imply that there was enough information for things; rather, the opposite. Day One was dragging on without going anywhere and showing no signs of change, and because of this I had no solid scumreads. And I knew that having three or four flips happening would help with that.

[xtopherusD]

Check that vote again, Brood?

[xtopherusD]

Is that how it works, I just some here and do this

Spoiler:

Nacho so which is more likely? The reasoning he's pushing shows a good amount of thought and looks genuine to me.

i agree he is town as fuck
my wires just got crossed a little

Looking at the two top lynch candidates I think malscalp is more scummy. The scummiest thing I see about Avox is his very weak Tazaro push(that is non-existent Tazaro push). malpsacp is far more scummy as he has soft defended confirmed scum multiple times and never voted for buldemar who he was flipping out about for confirming scum(still have no idea wtf that is about).
VOTE: Maenara

Aren't I currently the second biggest lynch candidate in terms of votes on me?

obvscum

Lol, too many Ms UNVOTE: Maenara
VOTE: malscalp
@Cheery I was talking about the consensus in the thread. From a quick feel I think that they are the most considered candidates. I personally haven't seen anything scummy of you.

obvscum

Unvote, Vote: malpscp

obvscum

and it's therefore correct?

(spoilered because I think it is a stupid thing to do)

obvscum

0bvscum 0_0

[xtopherusD]

Oh look it's my name.

Yeah. Pretty darn tired though. Also tired of Fate. Ugh/

What can I do you for.

[xtopherusD]

You seriously are working AGAINST ME rather than WITH ME if you're town

Hm?

[xtopherusD]

Does anyone have some actual meta on Malp's scum game? I'd do it myself but I dont want to

Micro 40. Hardly mentions scumpartner (shos) until just "my vote stays, even though I'm not sure everything shos says is accurate". Then makes a small comment on thinking the scumteam might be {scumpartner, person malp is voting}. Always makes sure to say that he is not sure. Then dies.

Mini 1196. Says he doesn't buddy up with anyone but will support someone if he thinks they're right. Calls out town Tazaro for asking scumpartner mikemike778 why mike thought he (Taz) was scum. Essentially becomes mikemike's other head, deflecting questions off of his scumpartner. Falseclaims with some "breadcrumbing" (something to look for in this game?). Tells PRs to use their power as they would use it normally? No, seriously. Responds to a Scum cop result on scumpartner with "Either we believe Chuji's claim or not. ... Our best move would be to lynch mike today". Suggests lynching mike and Chuji. Doesn't mention second scumpartner until his 58th post (post #1274), when scumpartner₁ is lynched, and calls him town. Suddenly scumpartner₂ is the most town person ever. Then they win.

Mini 1194. (Reverse Mafia, so voting for revivals). Replaces in, says that the revival should either be [a town player] or [scumpartner]. Then says (20 posts later) that he would prefer to revive [that town player] "just by gut". Suddenly switches to reviving [that scumpartner] even after "no big news". His next 5 posts include a blatant "revive bub revive bub revive bub" appended to the end. Still hasn't mentioned the other scumpartner. Small comments disagreeing with scumpartner₂. Suddenly (a while later) scumpartner₂ is "obvscum". Continues with "revive bub revive bub etc". Suddenly (only a little while later) scumpartner₂ is "not that obv-scum anymore". More "bub is not scum". Changes from "we don't use the word 'definitively' on mafia (at least I try not to)" to, you might not have guessed it but you could have, "Bub is defenitivelly town". Then wins.

Newbie 858 doesn't have enough for me to look at, does someone else want to have a go?

(just left home, picking up the draft on my phone from here on)

From those three games that I looked at, scum-malpascp completely avoids one scumpartner, and overly obviously buddies with any others. Now read his ISO again. I can't quote at the moment, but I know that this malpascp perfectly fits that description, with the two Felt Scum. This also means that there's most likely a fourth member who malp has

not

said much about, or hadn't said anything about until the other scum buddies died. (like in Mini 1196 after mikemike778 lynch).

So yeah. There are those three other games (two of which I haven't located yet), but I think you'll agree that the three above are fairly incriminating?

That's all from me for a bit. xtopherus out.

[xtopherusD]

Come again?

[xtopherusD]

First one in my post started September 2012, the other two I talked about were June 2011.

[xtopherusD]

Limited Access is different to Low Activity.

Elaborate on superjailer.

[xtopherusD]

I'm not sure, is he at L-1? I'd prefer not to have a selfhammer happen (withholding even more information from us, if that's even possible) so
UNVOTE: malpascp
Officially but not for intent.

[xtopherusD]

All I want right now is the character that malpascp was told he was in his role.

[xtopherusD]

All I want right now is the character that malpascp was told he was in his role.

The fact that he is step claiming is actually pretty scummy in and of itself.

No reason for targeting me yet.
No rolename.

Just step claiming like crazy.

Exactly my point. But the more he says, the more likely he is to say something that can hint us towards another scum.

Plus it's really getting on my nerves that I don't know things (even though I logically know they're completely useless).

[xtopherusD]

Huh.

Odd that the Maid of Time ["countering/defending against an enemy's attack(s)"] would be a killing role, but I can buy the claim for now.

Strange timing to claim that sort of thing, though. Why now?

[xtopherusD]

Is Fate a town read?

[xtopherusD]

Speaking of Porfervor, what does Mehdi (pretty much full-claimed Vigilante) think of them and the gun they make sure no one forgets?

[xtopherusD]

Let's get this back on here. Now that it's less dangerous and all.

VOTE: malpascp

[xtopherusD]

Is that just arrows or are you saying that "tone is greater than greater than greater than greater than greater than vote patterns"?

[xtopherusD]

Nikanor was replaced by Murderface, who is currently being replaced in turn.

[xtopherusD]

Let's get this back on here. Now that it's less dangerous and all.

VOTE: malpascp

Explain this.

This was after my 2006. The "officially but not for intent" means that I didn't want my vote to go towards an official lynch at that time, but I would have my vote there if we weren't so close to the hammer.
When we were further from hammer, I posted 2085.

I really don't find xtoph's meta argument against malpa convincing at all. Yes, I'm definitely convinced that Malpa buddies with his scum buddies, but what he's done here is attack one, Pandorica, and then back off a bit. This is pretty standard getting into to game play, I think. Then he attacked Paschendale, and questioned the wagon on Taz. I can totally see how this looks like an interaction between buddies. However, what I am not seeing is the behavior xtoph pointed out - ignoring or buddying.

Xtoph

, why do you think that the meta argument is so incriminating?

Meta shows us how a specific player is likely to react with people, rather than using a general guideline that people might not actually fit. If we can see that a player is showing similar signs as that of when they are scum, then we can have a fairly good idea of their alignment.

So let me draw some parallels for you from this game.

scum-malpascp completely avoids one scumpartner, and overly obviously buddies with any others.

In this game, we agree that there are most likely at least four members of the Felt Mafia. With two of them dead, we have two unknown. If malpascp is also one of them, it leaves one final Felt member for malpascp to "ignore".
Overly obvious "buddying" was not the phrase I was looking for there. I was more talking about arguing on the other person's behalf (Mini 1196's 572 and 576). You can see this sort of thing in posts such as 731 (it's different but the inclusion of "weak" has the same idea to it) and 1204, from this game.
malpascp also likes to pay a lot of attention to scumbuddies (in that link, the person you're looking for is Bub Bidderskins). And malpascp spent a fair amount of time on players who we now know are scum. And of course, ends it with very non-committal conclusion(s).
And he does the same thing again. malpascp suddenly is talking about Paschendale/Tazaro (and again here).

Having read through this game, and Micros 1194 and 1196 (two of his scum games), I think that his play has a similar feel here to how he plays scum. And I have already stated what I think of meta.


(by the way, looking through this thread yet again brings me to think that {Pandorica, Tazaro, malpascp, Zeta, buldermar} is accurate. From posts 701 and especially 713, Cheery Dog could either be part of the Felt or a player that they decided to pretend was in the Felt. Plus, malpascp's crazy reaction to buldermar's claim seems a bit too over-the-top and also kind of freaked out.

So basically if malpascp flips Felt scum, I could see Felt buldermar and possibly Felt CD, too)

(actually while I'm at it, what about buldermar, Mehdi? If you vig him, there are two most likely alternatives: He's scum, or he's a Jester (or has some other strange win condition). Killing a scum is obviously good, and killing a Jester clears out the water. I know he's been acting alright lately, but it's still possible that the scumclaim was drawing a lot of attention to himself so that the contrast later on (see: Now) would lead us to believe he is less likely to be a Jester.)

(I'm going to stop talking in parentheses now...)

[xtopherusD]

Where did I talk about bastard modding? I didn't realise that that was what I was doing

[xtopherusD]

*whistles innocently*
*whistles again*
*more whistling*
*and here*

Anyway, I didn't know that Jesters were counted as bastard roles here. And especially after just reading through all of malpascp's posts (of which there were quite a few during the discussion on buldermar's claim), seeing other people being alright with it obviously confused me. But I can stop doing that now. Sorry :/

[xtopherusD]

The hell just happened.

[xtopherusD]

Pretty much.

[xtopherusD]

It was Titan who started it, sunman. Same as Day One's lynch.

If people stopped screwing it up, then it could actually be helpful. In the future, now, it'll probably be picked up after these failed attempts, but it was worth those shots.


ActionDan, Fate??

[xtopherusD]

(maybe better to link to this post but you get the idea)

[xtopherusD]

That was with an actual hammer with the Day 1 lynch though.

It was supposed to be a false one, but Vifam really hammered before we could get a response.

[xtopherusD]

I like how Hoopla always seems to be playing in these false hammer games.

[/fun facts]

[xtopherusD]

What happened to all the votes??

Ah well.

VOTE: AurorusVox
*baaa, baaa*


In all seriousness, this is just with keeping in mind that malpascp isn't going to get lynched and/because Mehdi has some plan (which, as I think I have said, was really strange but whatever).
And also there was actually a case here. Even though I only remember seeing, like, one contradiction brought up, it was better than the other lynch targets.


PEdit: He has said something. He's said many things.

In all caps

.
"ALL CAPS MEANS YOU THINK I'M PISSED OFF RIGHT?"

It seems like feigned anger, while really he could try to say something useful. He has said that he won't give reads because he doesn't have to. He's using the V/LA as a shield.

Besides, why do we need him to say anything right now??

[xtopherusD]

Vifam posted a thing

Maybe it's not a case but I like to think it's better than anything else right now

[xtopherusD]

Vifam posted a thing

Maybe it's not a case but I like to think it's better than anything else right now

...

It's like my posts are invisible.

WHAT WHERE DID YOU COME FROM

Yeah, I noticed your posts. Hard to miss large bright red all caps text. And I really want to agree with you, but placing a vote on someone who

had

just under a third of the players voting for him

who then voted someone else

is fighting at a lost cause. I completely agree that malpascp needs to be lynched today. But it takes more than two people to change people's minds back to what they changed from.

So a suboptimal lynch it must be. And from what I have seen, AurorusVox is the least suboptimal person for today.

[xtopherusD]

This day needs to end, therefore take your vote off the person with nine votes and put it on a person with three?

[xtopherusD]

So, uh... We're doing this again?

...

UNVOTE: AurorusVox
VOTE: malpascp

[xtopherusD]

Fun fact time!

Voting is the town's greatest power! Although we have the disadvantage of being uninformed, we still have the majority, and that's why we're able to win!

Vifam is currently utilising Town's greatest power! malpascp is currently the only person who isn't!

[xtopherusD]

(mainly in response to 2580)

[xtopherusD]

Hooray!

[xtopherusD]

I am proud to say that the cycle I died in was the only one where all the deaths were of Town players!

...
Wait, maybe that's a bad thing.

[xtopherusD]

i'm more curious who porfervor was tbh

[xtopherusD]

xtoph were we right about you investigating Vifam?

Ehhh no. BT.

I was so happy with buldermar in that second last day

[xtopherusD]

ego post in longest game ever.

You already have posted in here.

[xtopherusD]

If I were to make another Homestuck mafia in the future, who would be interested? Now is your chance to pre-/in. I'm not saying I will, but I'm saying I might. And I'm saying it would be a LOT smaller.

Yep.

[xtopherusD]

I claim GodCat

You can't be a cat!

[xtopherusD]

We've got the numbers to make it happen!