Micro 71: Lucid Dreamers - Night 4

[Mitillos]

Unvote

Go ahead, Emp. You can vote her now, if you want, without hammering her.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Derailing a wagon is in no way what I was doing. I might not have been contributing to it, but that is nowhere near the same thing as derailing it.

PEdit: I don't like that sort of unvote so you can vote shenanigans.

Um, I think we could potentially all do useless and confirmable actions at night, to prevent scum from doing anything except one of those useless yet confirmable actions.

[screamlampost]

I don't like that sort of unvote so you can vote shenanigans.

^ This.

[Empking]

Unvote

Go ahead, Emp. You can vote her now, if you want, without hammering her.

If I vote are you just going to hammer?

[qwints]

Um, I think we could potentially all do useless and confirmable actions at night, to prevent scum from doing anything except one of those useless yet confirmable actions.

I veto this proposal.

[T-Bone]

Vote Count

PiggyGal15 - 3 (ProHawk, qwints, screamIampost)
Mitillos - 2 (Piggygal, Empking)
Siveure DtTrikyp - 1 (screamIampost)
Mist7676 - 1 (Siveure DtTrikyp)
Siveure DtTrikyp - 1 (Zoidberg)

Not Voting - 2 (Mitillos, Mist7676)

Activity Check - All Good

Deadline is Thursday November 8th, 11:59pm EST

With 9 Alive, it Takes 5 to Lynch

Mod Note: I'm on limited access till probably Wednesday. Just keep that in mind.

[screamlampost]

We're not voting SD anymore, gracious and powerful Mod.

[Empking]

Unvote, Vote: Poggy

[Mitillos]

@Empking: No, I won't hammer, I'm not an idiot and I'm not scum.
@Everyone else who commented on my unvote: Just testing Empking's resolve. He stated he wanted to vote Piggy. I unvoted. If he was just scum trying to both go along with what town was doing, as well as wanting to show everyone he won't hammer, he might have squirmed a bit about voting Piggy, himself. His reaction was natural and townish.

@Siv: How did you have a p-edit 24 minutes later? Anyway, the problem with the confirmable actions thing is that they can be interfered with. If there are two scum and they interfere with two townies, we could be looking at two potential mislynches. Add a possible mislynch before N1 and a couple of deaths during N2 and we're already done for. Additionally, because of T-Bone's rules, we can't use "reveal" actions. So the only confirmable actions will have to rely on confirmation from others. One scum can claim to have neighbourised his buddy. His buddy will confirm this. And we can't assume that either of them is scum, because either or both could be town as well and do the same thing.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Mit, I can take a LONG time to actually post stuff. I put it in, got the PEdit, then hummed and hawed about actually posting it.

The point of the useless yet confirmable actions is not to find scum. It is to make scum have no night action because they must submit a useless yet confirmable action or be outed as scum, assuming the plan is followed.

Although you do have a point about scum using each other to confirm. Meh.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay, here's a proper plan.

We all neighbourise in a circle. The circle shouldn't be popcorned. If scum tries anything, they will be revealed as not a neighbour to the next player.

I think it can't be broken so long as the scum are kept away from each other, as any interference will reveal them. So, worst case scenario they don't follow it at all, scum kills several random other guys and we take down the lynch pool a lot.

Say both scum interfere with two townies? They then become also not confirmed

If scum doesn't do anything and goes with the plan, which is the desired result, then it basically becomes a nightless game...

Hmm, it doesn't really work in the long term. But yeah, I'm trying to break the setup into nightless, which is town biased imo.

[PiggyGal15]

Mit, what did the mod say last game about nightmares and guns? He said that only if a person chose to be a vig that night, they would have a gun. Meaning nightmares don't by default have guns. I was being sarcastic about the "scumslip", hence the

Siveure... that... that was just...

Mit, I can take a LONG time to actually post stuff. I put it in, got the PEdit,

then hummed and hawed about actually posting it.

You debated on posting your comment... only scum ever are unsure if they should post. Humming and hawing about a comment means you were thinking "Oh, maybe I should re-word this so that I don't get scum points"

Caught scum, right here.
VOTE: Siveure

If we're neighbourizing people, sorry Mit, we had some fun times, but I'm going with Siveure or Prohawk. I suggest if we do this, the towniest town reads should be put with the scummiest scum reads. That way there's little chance of scum being paired together.

[Mitillos]

Aww, no more talking about algebra?

Anyway, say we go with the neighbourising plan. then nightmares just follow suit. And we're back to nowhere, because this won't tell us who they are.we simply have a bunch of secret conversations, or potentially one huge one, depending on how the Mod decides to implement this. Then what? We continue the scumhunting on D2, without information on the night actions. I would support this plan if we had a decent chance of finding scum through conversation alone. I don't think we do.

[Empking]

L;et's just have fun and do what we do.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

You debated on posting your comment... only scum ever are unsure if they should post. Humming and hawing about a comment means you were thinking "Oh, maybe I should re-word this so that I don't get scum points"

Caught scum, right here.
VOTE: Siveure

Wow. Do you think I don't realize this is the sort of thing which is very close to a scumtell? If I were trying to re-word it to prevent it coming through as scummy (which I sorta was), do you think I'd leave in the whole P-Edit bit, or even answer the question in that manner?

What it is is I get too perfectionist occasionally.

Also, Mit, yeah, it was just a thought. And it's broken too easily.

PEdit: Emp is correct, yeah. (lol 15 minutes by now?)

[Zoidberg]

My only point was that the 3 of them (or 4, I don't care how many - including you, I might add) keep making it seem like

that

game is relevant to

this

game.

That

was

that

game,

this

is

this

game. Some of us weren't in

that

game so for us it isn't fucking relevant what happened in

that

game and it won't ever be IMO.

I'm with mitillos on this one... meta is always relevant.

Stop thinking over

that

game - it distracts from

this

game.

I agree that focusing on a different game disctracts from scumhunting in this one. I think if you go back through the thread (or my posts, at least) you'll find I have been making very few references to #56 in terms of why people are or are not scum.

Yes, they are the same setup. Yes, they contain some of the same players.

But whatever hidden benefit this conversation holds for you select few, it does nothing at all for the rest of us. Explain your reads when you say shit like "oh he's Town because he was Town in that game and he's acting the same in this game" or whatever,

This goes back to meta. If someone is acting the same as they were in a known town game, then that is 100% legitimate to use as part of a read in any subsequent games.

but discussion about events or strategies that happened and could only happen in a single game should hold no place in this one. That's my point. Now stop it.

Fine, fair. On this point at least, I'll take some of the blame for wanting to gloat about being right in the other game. I'll leave it be.

AdditionBWODP:

What Mitillos just said about Micro 56 is a perfect example of something that's actually relevant between the games. Looking at 2 games of the same size and setup and assuming the number of Scum based on the similarities between the two games isn't a Scumslip, it's good reasoning. I assumed there were 2 Scum as well, because that's usually the case in all Micros. Why try and paint that assumption as a Scumslip, Zoidberg?

~Both signed M

Are you saying you know there are 2 scum and not 3?

[Zoidberg]

Huh. You're right, it doesn't say that anywhere. I assumed it'd be 2, partly because it's a 9 player game and partly because there were 2 in 56. There could be 3. Do you think that's likely, though?

I don't see any reason why 7:2 is more

or

less likely than 6:3.

It's a closed setup, and I am not going to assume there are 2 scum when there could just as easily be 3.

[Zoidberg]

Um, I think we could potentially all do useless and confirmable actions at night, to prevent scum from doing anything except one of those useless yet confirmable actions.

I veto this proposal.

Yep, I'm not going to cooperate this time. The mod has already made it clear that he will not allow any plan that would allow town to win solely by coordinating night actions, without the need to scumhunt during the day.

So it'll either backfire or it won't be allowed.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Zoidberg, exactly what are town going to do against three scum? 3:6 is insanely scumsided. That's why it's really unlikely.

PEdit: The plan would make it JUST scumhunting if successful, although it is not going to work for other reasons.

[Mitillos]

@Zoid: If there are 3 nightmares in this game, should they all successfully kill on N1, if we don't lynch, and none of the town vig, town loses. Worse, if we mislynch today, with 8 people left, the nightmares need only 2 successful deaths, so one of their team could help ensure one goes through, by removing protection from one of the targets, or something. If that is the case, town is very likely to lose, no matter what. I will initially go by the assumption that there are only 2 nightmares, because if I am wrong, it makes little difference. If we do get 2 nightmares and the game is still ongoing, I will obviously have been wrong, but at that point, it won't matter, because we will have eliminated two nightmares and can probably figure out who the third one is.
Yes, this assumption is not based on information in the thread, and I won't say that 3 nightmares are impossible. But I think it is a valid assumption there are two.

The thing about Piggy's scumread on Siv is, I do that too. I very often have to reread and rethink my posts several times. English is not my first language; if this is also the case for Siv, I can see how that would be just a peculiarity of his posting style and not a scum trait.

p-edit: Ninja'd by Siv.

[Zoidberg]

Fair enough

[Mist7676]

Instead of planning, we COULD do the neighboring thing, make sure you have daychat, or maybe lovers, where if one dies the other does? Yeah... I don't come up with good plans...

Scumhuntning during the day is a given, and I think I can see a few blips on my scum radar. Piggy seems to me as an opportunistic scum. She is always up for voting whoever has some suspision on them. And Zoid is very quick to assume scum slips, or tells. These 2 are the highest on my radar, but Piggy is above Zoid. I am up for lynching her today but I won't vote seeing as L-1 has been going around.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um, english IS my first language though, so nope, that argument doesn't work.

If it is anything, it's that communication with other people is not my first language. I occasionally get perfectionist about what I should be saying and take ages to say it.

I'd kindof like mist to say more.

PEdit: Mist is a ninja. Anyway, good.

UNVOTE: Mist7676
VOTE: ScreamLampost

for active lurking, and voting an actual lurker.

[Mist7676]

Wow, your "ninja" edits do take quite awhile...

[Mitillos]

@qwints: I'd like an answer to my question addressed to you in 113, please.