Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[Magua]

Vote Count 2.14

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

callforjudgement (5): Guille2015, StefanB, Phillammon, VoidedMafia, Salamence20
Phillammon (2): BBmolla, Seanald
Shamrock (2): Mehdi2277, callforjudgement

Not Voting (8): Shamrock, Nero Cain, PeregrineV, SlumberPartyBois, Pitty, Tammy, greygnarl, Tazaro

Deadline is November 20th, at 11:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2012-11-20 23:00:00)

[callforjudgement]

@Tazaro: I'm still interested in your half a case on Phillamon; even if you don't think it's enough for a lynch, we can still discuss it and refute or complete it.

I can make half a case on Phillamon too, although it rather depends on PV being scum, and that's too much to assume to make a case on the information we currently have.

[Tammy]

magua

- I just realized you have me voting for cfj and not voting. Me not voting is the correct one.

[PeregrineV]

@Call- Pitty is my strongest. I detailed it here (441), here (467), here (471) and finally here (480). Medhi questions it, since she's had Pitty =town (439), but I disagree (495).

[Tammy]

I've been procrastinating on this game because I keep thinking about writing a catchup post and not wanting to do it, so I'm just gonna not do it, because otherwise I'll just keep not posting.

Someone should ask me things.

*twitch*

VOTE: shamrock[/b]

[Mehdi2277]

And who are you voting? Pitty still doesn't make much sense for scum since her comment could have convicted her unless she had the town pm at the time she made the first comment on it.

Tammy I like the vote tags.:p

[Tammy]

Dammit

VOTE: shamrock

[Tazaro]

Well nuts. This is the third iteration of my post. If this crashes one more time, I GIVE UP.

1. BBmolla

Dayvig, a bit odd in places, but killed MoI, so he can't be all that bad. Odd mentality in some of his posts, especially those relating to lynching seanald over defender when the wagon hit critical mass.

2. Elmo TeH AzN

Lurking scum, fundamentally. His most recent post was stating the bleeding obvious rather than actually reacting or making a meaningful contribution, and the remainder of the iso is fundamentally worthless.

3. Declan_giggs (replaces GreyICE)

GreyICE tried to backpedal out of several things this game. First, he tried to backpedal out of having yelled loudly and repeatedly that Molla has no kill. Then, he tried to backpedal out of his townread on MoI. The issue is not the fact that he originally did these things, but instead that he is trying to pretend that they didn't happen. Then, declan has not appeared. Neither of these is good. Also, note the mentality in #1056. Strike anyone else as odd?

4. Guille2015

#659 is good, there is nothing in the ISO to particularly alarm me, looks reasonably good if a little low activity. Yeah, I know, hypocrisy.

5. Voidedmafia

Incredibly unrelentingly townie. Masses of walls, good analysis, piled on to MoI's scumslip. Good stuff.

6. Mehdi2277

Good and Full ISO, good posting, contributed highly to strategising as well as getting lots of reads out. Town.

8. SlumberPartyBois (a hydra of kanyeknowsbest + MattP)

One head is nearly good, but falls short. Their first post is a good example. It's like it's trying to emulate town thought processes, but hasn't quite made it. Poor assumptions, failed and in some cases disproved attempts to outguess the mod, and mildly obnoxious demeanor.

Then there's the kanye head. Yeah. High post count is good, but spam is not.

9. Pitty (a hydra of of Malakittens + PiggyGal15)

First 3 ISO posts are great, then it falls off. Until something comes of #1346, can't really pass judgement. Again, elements of lurkiness here, but who am I to talk.

10. StefanB

Post light, but well justified and attacking one of my scumreads with genuine logic. Good stuff.

11. Eidolon

Transitions seamlessly between lurking, incoherence and contributing. The failure to claim until late suggests that it's not a fakeclaim, but I reckon it does look suspicious all the same. Not sure which way to go on that, I'll be honest. (Unrelated, I recognize your name from somewhere. You frequent tg?)

12. PeregrineV

Unrelenetinglier town. If PV is scum, I will happily eat a multitude of hats.

13. Tazaro

Also a seanald pusher, with what may or may not be grey sheeping, however, reasonably good activity, and towny interactions with other players.

15. greygnarl

Second highest activity rate. A tad obnoxious but gets things done, and is very open with thought processes- and at that, there's a lot to go from. So pretty good, all in all. Solidly townish.

16. Seanald

Obnoxious is okay when it's backed with being townish, getting out reads and generally not doing what you are doing. The tammy tunnel is PARTICULARLY scummy. Unrelated, what game are you referring to in #1381? I don't recall having completed any games with you yet...

18. Tammy

260 and 251. That is all.

20. Salamence20

Confessing the DV straight up was very townish, it got better than there. I was confident enough yesterday to give him all my money, so I'm willing to stand by that.
I realize that this list has far too many townreads for them all to be right, but I promise you that I can justify them all, having been through all the isos in detail. The first 3 are more detailed because I had them copy pasted after attempt 2...

He implies there is something sort of wrong with both BBmolla and me when we are pushing Seanald instead of others.
But then proceeds to denote Seanald as red scum.
I think it is worth seeing some Seanald mentions in his ISO.

[callforjudgement]

OK, caught up.

(Possibly incomplete) list of lurky people: Phillamon, Pitty, StefanB, Tazaro, guille, Seanald. (These are people whose alignment is unlikely to be determined by their ISO, and more by looking at the way they interact with the rest of the game. There's probably scum hiding there.)

[Mehdi2277]

I think sean has become the lazy out and scum read for a lot of people when the original reasons I argued against and since then there hasn't been more there really (problem is his death clears two people if he gets two innocents which makes it a worthy death later but earlier on that wasn't true at all).

Another problem with his reads is bois is scum yet he's barely pushed him. If you think a universal town read is scum and very weakly push him then you aren't trying to get them lynched at all.

Sham/Pv/philla are all currently acceptable lynches (sham is best though for lurking).

P-edit: Guille is town if sean is town (innocent result). Stefan created the wagon and reasons to lynch moi easily (and bussing a great scum player is doubtful). Pitty mentioned in my last post. Meh on tazaro. Philla mentioned here and sean here. That deals with your list (I also think pv has been lurking some).

[Mehdi2277]

I think the worst thing for sean is actually guille being town. I have never seen town guille lurk this much. He barely exists and mainly showed up for set up spec.

[Tazaro]

Addition to previous post. Also note that the only commentary in which Phil writes a question into a statement is for GreyICE/Declan. He also wrote the longest blurb about him, and this is negative; potentially bussing from Phil. I'm seeing good promise in Tammy's logical ability. I think I may agree with her on voting Shamrock, but can switch to Phillammon, but somehow it's a two-member-wagon and no more than that right now, perhaps because he gets townie points for his commentary or whatnot.

VOTE: Shamrock

[PeregrineV]

Then,

Taz or Mehdi should be advertising the crap out of the power we want night3 (cop, Doc, oracle, Track, watch, whatever). The rest they can transfer between them.

Yep, agreed.

But somehow that got changed in the final draft.

Current (two more claims needed)

Player	Amount that will be transferred
Voided	186
Guille	209
Greyice	180
Elmo
Pitty	209
Philla	190
Sean	103

Advertiser for Cop: Advertises cop - Peregine
Auction Investigator: Checks what that player won. x2 - Tazaro
Blocker: Stops one player from voting another. x1 - Gentlemen Bastards
Sixth Sense: Targets a player and if they die you get a QT with them. x3 -- Salamance
Night-kill - StefanB
MoNA: Cannot be tracked or watched x4 (Town-read)- Tammy
Sartor: Gives fake investigation results. x3 (Town-read) - Greygnarl
Follower: Tracker. x2 - Bois
Stalker: Watcher - Gentlemen Bastards

TRANSFER FROM _____ TO ______:
Pitty to Stephan
Seanald to Gentlemen Bastard
Guille to SlumberPartyBois
Philammon to Salamence
Elmo to Tammy
Voided to Peregrine
GreyICE to greygnarl

PLAYERS NOT DOING ANY TRANSFERS:
Eidolin
BBmolla
Tazaro
Mehdi

Only piece missing is elmo's.

Eidolin flaked.
BBMolla-broke Bum
Tazaro-

I gave an amount of money to Mehdi.

Mehdi-

There's lack of reason to hide my money actions. I transferred all of my money to GB (I realize the effect on the plan, but at the same time the reasoning behind no two give to the same person was it meant looking at two people so just trusting me would have worked).

And there's more, but start any questions comments now.

[Tazaro]

And in case anyone still doesn't know, GreyICE-Declan-Shamrock are the same slot

[Mehdi2277]

How did tazaro break plan? He was supposed to either give to me or advertise and you were doing that more at the time. I explained my plan break.

[Tazaro]

Just so it is known, I both engaged in a transfer of money AND won the Auction Detective ability.

[PeregrineV]

Or the fact I'm a neighborizer and had planned to target GB way before the plan originated and I already explained me giving money to him.

So you not only transferred all of your money to Gentleman, he was also your neighbor target? All your eggs in one basket seems counterintuitive, since if he was so townie he would be targeted for the NK, why not neighbor Slumber and transfer Genteleman, or vice versa?

And why not transfer to Tazaro as originally planned?

He has 0 money right now after transferring all of it. I think someone who's close to confirmed town (well confirmed to have protected GB or he couldn't have possibly known his being role blocked) should have more then that.

Actually, that would be Voided's claim. You arguing "he needs cash, he's broke" seems to be coming as if you think it is reality.

Vote: Medhi

There's more, and I want this stuff answered before I'm changing my vote.

[PeregrineV]

How did tazaro break plan? He was supposed to either give to me or advertise and you were doing that more at the time. I explained my plan break.

If this is to me, Tazaro didn't break plan. That's my point. Apparently no one broke plan except you.

[Mehdi2277]

Tazaro explain how you win auction cop when neighborizer won.

Voided is almost definitely town. He's confirmed to have protected GB (it's nearly impossible to know being RB other wise). I'll assume his claim is true.

I expected GB to be protected (he was the obvious protection to me). And neighborizing him would also let me see what happens with the money I transferred.

PV I repeatedly said I had something I specifically wanted to do. Originally I was supposed to be given money but rejected it. I think it was obvious I wasn't planning to do something normal. Complaining about it now when I made obvious there was something I wanted to do is weak.

[Mehdi2277]

Also why say before I'm changing my vote? Feels like you're just giving yourself an easy out and want to try to see if you can get an fos based just on my plan break.

[Phillammon]

@Phillamon: How much do you think you've improved since I last played with you, in Worst Roles Mafia? I'm trying to make sense of your reads list in 1395 at the moment, and I'm not sure my meta on you is still in date.

To be brutally honest, no. The reads list itself is for some people more feel than content- particularly, even if you are pushing on someone that I think is scum, I still find it scummy if you're doing it the "wrong" way. Similarly, I'm fine with people pushing me and still reading them as town if they are pushing in a townish fashion.

Just gone back on read, the seanald pushing was a point in your favour. What are you arguing with there?

[callforjudgement]

@Phillamon: I'm having problems parsing your previous post. Could you try rewording it?

(Also, the only read there I'm concerned about is an obvtown read on PV with no reasoning, and I can't see why you'd think that from his posts either.)

[Phillammon]

Okay:

I am still a poor player

It's not who you push but HOW you push that makes you town or scum, to an extent.

Taz was arguing a point I hadn't made.

[PeregrineV]

Voided is almost definitely town. He's confirmed to have protected GB (it's nearly impossible to know being RB other wise). I'll assume his claim is true.

Slumber claimed RB

We are the Roleblocker

Here's what needs to happen:

Every single player has to say if they are or are not the NKer.

Doctor

MUST

50/50 protect us/GB if the NKer does not come forward.

If voided thought Matt was town, then why not say he's the doc?
Instead, post-Gentelman death:

scum probably have the doctor.

100% false.

On that note, scum (either team) have the RB, most definitely.

Also, I transferred my money to Peregrine as ordered.

I expected GB to be protected (he was the obvious protection to me). And neighborizing him would also let me see what happens with the money I transferred.

I don't get this. You wanted to ask him in the QT what he's doing with your money?

PV I repeatedly said I had something I specifically wanted to do. Originally I was supposed to be given money but rejected it. I think it was obvious I wasn't planning to do something normal. Complaining about it now when I made obvious there was something I wanted to do is weak.

So you didn't want to be sent any money because you were neighborizing night1?
Explain the logic behind this please.

[callforjudgement]

Ah, thanks, I think I know what you mean now.

Do you still think PeregrineV is obvtown, btw?

BTW, have SPB claimed their block last night? And if they have, was it on Voidedmafia? They probably should claim the block if they made one, I can't see any good reason not to.