Mafiastuck (GAME OVER TOWN WINS!)

[ζ]

Zdenek: The fact that weak reasoning 'bothers you' indicates, in my opinion, that you are scum who cannot provide strong reasoning of your own.

I've ascribed scum motivations to posting a post by post catch up. If you can provide town motivations, I'd be surprised. I agree that it could be a playstyle thing in some cases, but the overwhelming scum motivation to do it makes me think that players for whom it isn't a playstyle thing who do it are more likely to be scum. So it's rather telling that you say you're 90% sure it's a playstyle thing but then don't refer to your own playstyle, or give examples of you doing it in the past, which are both things I would have done were I town and having my reasoning used against me.

[ζ]

Anyway, we should be lynching malpascp. He's pretty obvious.

[Cheery Dog]

I think I see both reasoning with both the Maenara and the malpascp wagons. I don't actually have anything new for Nacho-scum (still only the scummy as fuck then town as fuck, now with added bonus of pasch flipping scum)

Not really seeing the reason behind the xtopherusD wagon, unsure about the AurorusVox wagon and am totally unfazed by any of the ones that currently have 1 vote (besides the one I'm sitting on)

[Nachomamma8]

I don't actually have anything new for Nacho-scum (still only the scummy as fuck then town as fuck, now with added bonus of pasch flipping scum)

cheery all you are doing is keeping me alive
and that is bad for your team

[Zdenek]

Zdenek: The fact that weak reasoning 'bothers you' indicates, in my opinion, that you are scum who cannot provide strong reasoning of your own.

I've ascribed scum motivations to posting a post by post catch up. If you can provide town motivations, I'd be surprised. I agree that it could be a playstyle thing in some cases, but the overwhelming scum motivation to do it makes me think that players for whom it isn't a playstyle thing who do it are more likely to be scum. So it's rather telling that you say you're 90% sure it's a playstyle thing but then don't refer to your own playstyle, or give examples of you doing it in the past, which are both things I would have done were I town and having my reasoning used against me.

I'm pretty sure that your first sentence is worded incorrectly.

The town motivations are obvious. Reading the thread is helpful for scumhunting. Especially after there's been two flipped scum. Trying to suggest otherwise is bizarre.

Here are the games I've replaced into.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14673
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16798
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18106
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18910
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19022
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22388
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22099
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23120

[ζ]

The town motivations are obvious. Reading the thread is helpful for scumhunting. Especially after there's been two flipped scum. Trying to suggest otherwise is bizarre.

Those are town motivations for reading the thread, not for posting a post-by-post catch up. Try again.

Here are the games I've replaced into.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14673
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16798
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18106
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18910
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19022
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22388
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22099
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23120

In none of those did you post a post-by-post catch up.

[Cheery Dog]

I don't actually have anything new for Nacho-scum (still only the scummy as fuck then town as fuck, now with added bonus of pasch flipping scum)

cheery all you are doing is keeping me alive
and that is bad for your team

So you are scum and my reads are right?

Otherwise you being alive would be a good thing.

[ActionDan]

That case Zeta presented is pretty good.

after I read Mals iso, I just might sheep it.

[Titan]

malp reasoning sucks
vote cheery dog

OMG this is finally happening. I've been wanting it for ages! Centuries!

Unvote
Vote: Malp

[Titan]

WTF I've been calling for malp's head since yesterday and no one listened to me

[Robocopter87]

I don't actually have anything new for Nacho-scum (still only the scummy as fuck then town as fuck, now with added bonus of pasch flipping scum)

cheery all you are doing is keeping me alive
and that is bad for your team

So you are scum and my reads are right?

Otherwise you being alive would be a good thing.

No.

He is town.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

[ζ]

Cheery Dog's interactions with flipped scum place him firmly in the suboptimal lynch pile for today.

[Nachomamma8]

Cheery Dog's interactions with flipped scum place him firmly in the suboptimal lynch pile for today.

sorry what

[Gorrad]

Porfervor and Zdenek, your recent language towards each other has gone well past civility and into outright rude and offensive. I will remind you both that rule 1 is a real rule, and you will be found in violation if this uncivil language and behavior continues. Keep it clean, gentlemen. It's only a game.

[DeasVail]

Ok, so:

Maenara, I don't really see how setup spec helps scum since they know more than us anyway, but maybe I've missed something.

Sunshine, the redirection could have easily been what they did, although I don't know why they would have killed Noir.

Actually Maenara continuing to go on about setup spec seems kind of town maybe. Thoughts?

Hmm, just a thought, but could Alsark/Zdenek maybe be green scum? Pasch calling out Alsark for that roleclaim thing was really strange, so maybe it was Pasch attempting to distance with something that he knew wasn't going to get traction? I remember the consensus being that Pasch wasn't as bad as he appeared to be in this game, so this doesn't seem too unlikely to me.

Wait, maenara, was it you that brought that up? (Sorry, I'm really tired and kind of skimming, so I wouldn't be surprised if I read someone's post and thought that what's in it are my own original thoughts) If so, I like it!

Scumread on xtoph is returning. (I don't know if it ever went away though)

Xtoph: Regarding 1536, why wouldn't you just say that since we don't want a mislynch, we shouldn't lynch you?

Malp case seems decent. I'll take another look at him at some point.

Also, Zdenek, just so you know, I don't read quote walls unless I'm in a pretty good mood. This is my fault, not yours, but you may have wanted to know.

Sorry for not really doing anything. I'll update reads later.

[buldermar]

I don't actually have anything new for Nacho-scum (still only the scummy as fuck then town as fuck, now with added bonus of pasch flipping scum)

cheery all you are doing is keeping me alive
and that is bad for your team

So you are scum and my reads are right?

Otherwise you being alive would be a good thing.

No.

He is town.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

Welcome to the Cheery Dog wagon, Mr. Robo. I am Mr. Red alongside Dr. Nacho. Enjoy your stay!

[xtopherusD]

Xtoph: Regarding 1536, why wouldn't you just say that since we don't want a mislynch, we shouldn't lynch you?

You mean to tell me that if I were to say I would be a mislynch, you'd believe me and move on?

Saying it how I did meant that Zdenek and the rest of the players could read and see where I'm coming from. I phrased it in an objective way so that no matter who you believe is scum you will agree that Zdenek's comment was not actually helpful. Everything I said in that post is common knowledge. If I say "I am Town", that's not common knowledge (and therefore has no basis), doesn't help anyone, and is just as bad as what I was trying to call out.

[Mehdi2277]

Not reading til later, but going off the last couple of pages still don't think xtoph is scum (his all tone doesn't feel paniced, but overly logical town nor does the things he's asking look like desperate defense or anything). Zdenek's frustration comes off genuine. Maenara something told me they were town (specifically I think they're first post of the day that short wall that outside of xtoph doesn't really just follow other people nor does the later back and forth look scum flailing or trying to stay hidden). BT's mae vote feels forced along with his questions. Fate considering you haven't read the whole game how did you get a town read on him (and if someone wants to quote a past reason that works too). Zeta (or whatever the greek letter is) can be considered town for similar to maenara just helping his own fos along that isn't really with the rest at all.

Nacho what's bad on the malpa reasoning?

Next over reacting is a player tell and unless backed with meta shouldn't be treated like a scum tell.

Zeta plenty of catch up posts occur. They are far from rare (and posting a list of links to games you haven't done them quickly is scummy how?)

[DeasVail]

You mean to tell me that if I were to say I would be a mislynch, you'd believe me and move on?

Saying it how I did meant that Zdenek and the rest of the players could read and see where I'm coming from. I phrased it in an objective way so that no matter who you believe is scum you will agree that Zdenek's comment was not actually helpful. Everything I said in that post is common knowledge. If I say "I am Town", that's not common knowledge (and therefore has no basis), doesn't help anyone, and is just as bad as what I was trying to call out.

Well as town, I'm not really going to care whether someone suspects me with little reasoning or suspects me with a case on the side. Scum probably do though.

[ζ]

Cheery Dog's interactions with flipped scum place him firmly in the suboptimal lynch pile for today.

sorry what

You look at what Cheery Dog has done and you say "that's stupid". You look at what malpascp has done and you say "that's scummy".

Zeta plenty of catch up posts occur. They are far from rare (and posting a list of links to games you haven't done them quickly is scummy how?)

I am aware "plenty of catch up posts occur".

My assertion is that if:

- a player does not have a history of making catch up posts

then

- he is likely making a catch up post because he is scum.

Zdenek didn't just not post links 'quickly', he didn't post them at all and showed no intentions of posting them. Zdenek said something like he was 'about 90% sure that catching up is not a scum-tell, and that it is a play-style thing', but he didn't say whether or not catching up posts were specifically a playstyle thing for him. Because he seemed to lack a history of making catch up posts, I thought he was likely making a catch up post because he is scum, as above.

My reasoning for why making catch up posts is a good strategy for scum is here.

[ζ]

Cheery Dog's interactions with flipped scum place him firmly in the suboptimal lynch pile for today.

sorry what

Look, I don't have Cheery Dog as a town read.

But malpascp is considerably more scummier than him. Just like Paschendale yesterday, he was exuding alignment with every post.

If you vote malpascp today, I'll vote Cheery Dog tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

Malp reasoning is bad because it draws scum connections where there really isn't any, and malp's reaction to buldermar's scumclaim (tunneling on a townie) was pretty fucking genuine and it probably makes him town. There were a lot of people who voted me in the RVS for "sounding awkward", and then backed off awkwardly later. And now because he's had that interaction with flipped scum makes him scum? No. It's just people attacking things that are not scumtells and backing off when they realize they were wrong. Cheery Dog interactions are a bit more damning because they are ACTUAL INTERACTIONS; Noir defends Cheery Dog early when the pressure wasn't all that much, and then when he sees the wagon's not going anywhere, he steps back and rips on his horrible play every once and a while to get him to vote but NEVER ACTUALLY VOTES HIM.

Guys, lets get this straight. Do you think Tazaro, not Pasch, just Tazaro, is scummy enough to get lynched? I know this is not the only thing to take into account, but it would be nice to know after all why people are going back to that wagon after it lost some steam when Pasch replaced out.

This is a valid question. In fact, this is one of the good things that malp's brought to the table. People who weren't satisfied with the Pasch wagon started jumping on Tazaro with shitty reasoning, so it's a good observation to see if these people think that Tazaro is scummy or are just riding the "pasch is scum" wave.

You look at what Cheery Dog has done and you say "that's stupid". You look at what malpascp has done and you say "that's scummy".

I can look at what malp does and say "that's stupid as fuck", and I can read his meta to back it up. I mean, here he said that someone was scummy as fuck because they called for a 1v1. THIS IS TOWN MALP. THIS IS WHAT HE DOES.

[Nachomamma8]

If you vote malpascp today, I'll vote Cheery Dog tomorrow.

there's still hope for this wagon yet, and I haven't gotten so frustrated with this game where I will start voting townreads.

also fate you can totally sheep me; cheery dog as scum as they come. you can just glance at his interactions with me and see that.

[Nachomamma8]

also changing my avatar for a little while to force people to read my posts.

[Cheery Dog]

also changing my avatar for a little while to force people to read my posts.

impersonating the mod, kill it!