Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[Justin Timberlake]

Why did you leave when I asked you for content. Come on, insults are easy. Fabricating reads are hard.

[Cerulean]

lmfao

"Our plan revolves around preserving a set of townreads that includes us so we're going to do this really bad and scummy thing and quickhammer someone out of self preservation instead of addressing the case against us when it is clear the tide is turning."

Yeah no, get lynched.

~Empire.

[absta101]

Wtf is this? Where's the Mod?

[Cerulean]

You would have been given an opportunity to defend yourself from the cases. You had no fucking reason to just quick hammer out of self preservation like that without addressing them. Neither of you are this fucking bad.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Like seriously, the only people voting you at the time were my slot and Soul. Regfan was insistent on Voided and wasn't going to move. I doubt Thor even read that wall. You had more than enough time.

What the actual fuck?

~Empire.

[Soul2277]

Faraday seriously you are pissing me off. You are reaching MoI levels of antagonization ad quite frankly I've had enough of that to last me for a lifetime.

I haven't read the thread completely so even if I did present reads I am sure you'd fucking twist it an spin them to fit your own needs. I had already planned on leaving BEFORE you even responded so don't give me that crap that I am leaving when you asked me for reads. I'm not fake raging this is legitimate anger. I don't expect this from you or Regfan. Yes Mehdi voted but that doesn't mean I had no involvement. It's a fucking hydra. He asked me if it was okay to vote Sixty and I said yes. Do you want me to show you our hydra logs because I will do if it will stop you from acting all high and mighty like this.

Honestly this scenario is almost exactly like god damn dirty dealing where MoI was so convinced we were scum because we had a differing read on him.

If you really want a read from me Farday it's that I think you are scum if Sixty is scum. You are twisting my words in a way that I have never seen from your town play and you are being an asshole about on top of it. Your words about us being scum belies that you somehow "know" for a fact that Sixty is scum. You are tryin to fucking tie us to a sinking ship hence all of your twisting of words.

Let me ask you this question, what is your opinion of Sixty if Voided flips mafia?

Now fuck off and I'll be back later.

[Cerulean]

lol if you think Regfan would stay up until 4 AM his time to write a massive comprehensive wallpost as scum with minimal input from Faraday.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

PS: Tammy thinks you might be scum, too.

~Empire.

[Sixty]

Neither of you are this fucking bad.

No, we're not. In particular, we are not that bad

as scum

.
I'm hardly a good scum player, but you're saying that

both of us

would agree to a hammer that looked horribly scummy when we have enough skill to talk ourselves out of a lynch. Neither of us are stupid, but we are pragmatical.

I've done this dance before; I'm not interested in being mislynch bait throughout the whole game if I can have out early and still ensure a win. I really don't like being mislynched, but dead Townies still win with Town, and if removing distractions early helps, by all means.

What I

do

care about is whether or not you agree with our set of Townreads, because that will be crucial for a Town win. I want an answer to

that

, and if not, why. Do you think absta, Thor, Jesse are all Town?

[Justin Timberlake]

And while I've skimmed some of your games I wasn't involved in, no, I don't have a particularly good ability of reading you, at least in early Days. Like Empire (and like me), you quickly lose motivation as scum, and that is one of my main tools in nailing such players. It is hard to muster motivation even when you know you need to. Having my four/five Townreads means I don't have to worry about you at all; it's Nightless, which means you won't die, which means you'll have plenty of opportunities to show you're actually working as Town; one mega post of reads isn't enough, but you'll either keep it up or not.

Being 'unconfident' in reading me is one thing that I can understand at times, not stating a read at all is a different story, you're saying you didn't mind my reads and thought process post as town / scum or that you disagreed / agreed with my points on others in the time you spent reading it? Also out of curiosity what scum games of mine have you read through and no being a SK sort of role in Vi's game doesn't count as scum.

I haven't revealed preliminary opinions on the reactions because I have hardly done more than skim through them (and your wall). There's no Night, I'm in no rush. The hammer was very much not-random, though.

Vi gets so few chances to trollhammer.

We have our set of Townreads, we don't need the rest. You seem to agree with our set of designated Townreads, so while you may disagree on the execution (i.e. our hammer), the plan itself should be reading sound. This setup only needs four people cleared as Town; if everyone agrees not to lynch those, the others can be lynched until we get two scum flips.

If you haven't done the reading into it due to time constraints or relaxation over the amount of time there is available to do it in then you could just say that, stating 'until the flip' makes it sound like you think Voided is flipping anything other than town after his post-hammer reaction. And while I very much understand the logic of "I have X town-reads, X correct town-reads alive at the end-game is autowin" you know very well that isn't how it works, it's not just correctly reading three other people as town that's needed, it's surviving or at least getting a solid fourth town-read, then it's making sure that everyone understands and agrees with all the town-reads and make sure they don't get overly paranoid of themselves. Long story short while you can say "PoE means we hammer freefully!" it's bullshit and you know as much so your reasoning behind the blitz hammer really really doesn't work and I don't think the hammer was something that was 'non-random' or agreed upon but rather something that Vi did because he saw the no way to get around the meta-case. In fact I'll probably check your online activity around that time (Between Empires post and the hammer) because if I'm right you weren't online at all and I don't think Vi would random hammer there as town without confronting you but can see him doing so as scum very much. Think he did a similar thing in DEFCON? I might need to recheck that too.

I do very much agree with the Cerulean and Jesse reads and to a slightly lesser degree with Absta too. I think Thors town but wouldn't bet the game on him.

Regfan + Faraday, I am pretty sure you guys never read me right when I am town and you are proving my point by thinking I would bus Sixty. I'm not even joking, bussing is so unorthodox in this tpe of open that it has become orthodox. It is fuckin dumb and I find it offensive you think I would do it as scum.

I know Faraloser has commented on this already but I actually want a much bigger explanation and Post 455 really doesn't give that to me although elements of it does feel somewhat genuine but I rather not attempt to base a read on you solely of 'genuine frustration' because I think you can fake that to a degree. So lets go through this 1) When in the past have either of us misread you because from memory I've played 10? games where we were both town and I've read you correctly in 9 out of those 10 with the one exception being where I had a scum-read on your predecessor and Faradays saying he doesn't remember misreading you. 2) You're stating that this game is 'proof' that we can't read you correctly - what have you specifically done in this game that can be really attributed to your meta and reading of your meta, hunting into Mehdi, not you. 3) You state that you have 'discussed' the game with Medhi at times and have 'logs' but if that's the case then what's the massive need for you to 'catch-up' and provide content, if you've been discussing reads and thoughts than his posts would contain your thoughts too but that's not the case. So no, Faradays point about 'you' specifically not being the person bussing Sixty is actually correct. 4) Instead of 'raging' and getting upset actually speak logically with us, state your reads, your content and catch up thoughts and our read on Sixty is obvious if you're reading the game at all.

[Sixty]

Do you want me to show you our hydra logs because I will do if it will stop you from acting all high and mighty like this.

That's against the rules, iirc.

Honestly this scenario is almost exactly like god damn dirty dealing where MoI was so convinced we were scum because we had a differing read on him.

*cough Chrono Trigger cough*

Your words about us being scum belies that you somehow "know" for a fact that Sixty is scum. You are tryin to fucking tie us to a sinking ship hence all of your twisting of words.

This is terrible. Faraday occasionally slips like that, but it's hardly a stretch to assume scum connections pre-flip. You're saying that having scum-scum reads is scummy and shows scum knowledge? You're essentially accusing Faraday of lining up lynches, without showing how he's doing it in a scummy manner.

[Voidedmafia]

ITT Hydras be getting up in the others' business.

I agree with 451, btw.

Thor should not be left alive.

[Thor665]

Delighted!

We don't need to be alive to win this, and Vi won't be around much (if at all) for the next week plus.

But aren't you one of your town reads of not lynching?

[Justin Timberlake]

Went back and looked at DEFCON and it's a differentish situation.

Tierce, I checked the time difference thingy and Ceruleans cases were posted at 1AM on whatever time setting Faraday has put this on here with the hammer coming at 2AM which is 13-14 hours ago and it says that it's 3;30pm in Portugal now so if I have that all right it'd have been roughly 2am at the time unless my math is making me look dumb. I really don't think you'd have been online discussing 'okay quick hammer' there at all. Really think it was just a Vi alone decision.

Reading into Medhis scum games in depth will have to wait until tomorrow, exhausted and can't keep eyes open any longer.

[Thor665]

I really don't think you'd have been online discussing 'okay quick hammer' there at all. Really think it was just a Vi alone decision.

This feels kind of like a knockout to me.

[Sixty]

Being 'unconfident' in reading me is one thing that I can understand at times, not stating a read at all is a different story, you're saying you didn't mind my reads and thought process post as town / scum or that you disagreed / agreed with my points on others in the time you spent reading it? Also out of curiosity what scum games of mine have you read through and no being a SK sort of role in Vi's game doesn't count as scum.

I'm saying it looks honest enough, but that I haven't really pored over it yet. Will try to do that after the next sleep cycle. As for not stating a read at all... go skim Otherworld and the interaction between me and Vi there.

I count Maf.Maiden as a Town game for you--scum hit you for being Townish, you were collecting Townreads, you were scumhunting, it's Town enough for me.
I don't usually recall

games

in particular, as I go through periods in which I do some meta research for fun and those I don't touch other games at all. I tend to remember

events

(see the "reading for fun" business). Your scum games that I remember to a degree are DEFCON and MafiaScum Fantasy Camp. You were also scum in an hydra with CES? I can't find that game.

And while I very much understand the logic of "I have X town-reads, X correct town-reads alive at the end-game is autowin" you know very well that isn't how it works, it's not just correctly reading three other people as town that's needed, it's surviving or at least getting a solid fourth town-read, then it's making sure that everyone understands and agrees with all the town-reads and make sure they don't get overly paranoid of themselves.

There's a fourth Townread there who isn't us and you know it (also @Thor 462). That's why I'm not particularly bothered about being lynched.

I don't think the hammer was something that was 'non-random' or agreed upon but rather something that Vi did because he saw the no way to get around the meta-case. In fact I'll probably check your online activity around that time (Between Empires post and the hammer) because if I'm right you weren't online at all and I don't think Vi would random hammer there as town without confronting you but can see him doing so as scum very much. Think he did a similar thing in DEFCON? I might need to recheck that too.

Tierce, I checked the time difference thingy and Ceruleans cases were posted at 1AM on whatever time setting Faraday has put this on here with the hammer coming at 2AM which is 13-14 hours ago and it says that it's 3;30pm in Portugal now so if I have that all right it'd have been roughly 2am at the time unless my math is making me look dumb. I really don't think you'd have been online discussing 'okay quick hammer' there at all. Really think it was just a Vi alone decision.

It was 2 AM, yes. I was online, though busy elsewhere. (Can I present the timestamp of my reply to Xalxe's prod in Telephone Pictionary? It was just before the hammer, I was frolicking around in Photoshop for over an hour after that.) My sleep schedule is incredibly messed up, and if you look throughout the site you'll find evidence of me posting at odd hours on other days, so while I wasn't posting--I'm running out of games --yes, I was around, yes, I agreed to the hammer, and there was discussion via AIM and via GDocs/Drive/thingy.

[Sixty]

Oh, that was Revolution Mafia. Concision.

[Thor665]

I know you added Jesse...but if he's worth adding so it's o'tay you are lynched, then why not mention him first time through?

[Sixty]

:effort:

[Justin Timberlake]

Oversoul m8 calm down or you'll give yourself a heartattack. I'll respond later in a civil manner as i'm a serious and dedicated player. Also tierce's posts or logic make no sense in a realistic mafia game. Staying alive and trying to protect those town reads makes more sense. Actually the whole thing is stupid what the fuck am i doing

[Thor665]

I'm not sure how dramatically stupid it is.

The hammer sucked monkey testes. That said, the play is fairly reminiscent of their play in Reverse Mafia which was a not dissimilar setup mentality.
I'll agree the explanation leaves me feeling skeevy towards them though - specifically how awesome their death might be and also that they didn't really try to get other people on board with their plan *prior* to enacting it (besides a maybe if you squint a bit - semi conversation with me about absta...sorta) I think that's the part that bugs me - as a town plan they should have gotten people on board and *then* quickhammered.

[Voidedmafia]

Thor, I don't see the relation to Reverse at all...Maybe in the "come up with a game-breaking strategy" dept., but not much else.

(and where the hell is CFJ? How long will exist in a state of near-death?)

[Sixty]

In Reverse, we got called scummy for our plan, people waffled, and I don't recall impressively useful/alignment-accurate reactions from the plan presentation itself. Here we went the more drastic way. The puppy has a flair for the etc.

I want to analyze reactions, but sleep times now.

[Cerulean]

Don't bother. You're getting lynched. Just self vote when the next day starts.

~Empire.

[Justin Timberlake]

The hammer sucked monkey testes. That said, the play is fairly reminiscent of their play in Reverse Mafia which was a not dissimilar setup mentality.

Them being in the game as opposed to out of the game is fairly different.

their SUPER TOWN PLAN relies on their reads being sheeped after death or something. when if they were town they'd see that acting like a fucking parama wannabe is not a way to get listened to. I don't think they'd have failed to account for the damage the quickhammer would have caused if town and voided was town.