In post 610, ProHawk wrote:Levi!!! You are killing me. If you can, without going back to look at the post you quoted, paraphrase the whole thing, then I might believe you actually agree with it - the whole thing.
You quoted a post, and said "I agree". This is the most lazy, lackluster post full of nothing. You are being lazy and not contributing. If I didn't have you on my list of prob-town, you would be due for a D1 lynch. Keep it up and you will be the D2 lynch.
@hawk you are completely wrong about me quoting something and saying "I agree" what I said was that "believed this analysis makes her seem town to me" yes I technically agree with her disagreement about meta with you. but that wasn't what I was saying. nor was I saying that her disagreement with you made you scum. When I said later I agreed to it when you made your post about me quoting someone and wanting my "real" input I said it was because I agreed with it too. then you said that my agreement is lazy and not contributing. how is it not contributing? i'm giving you my thoughts even if they come from someone else. shouldn't that tell you my side of things and what I believe and how I act? and whether I am scum or town or not? and personally I don't think i'm going to make it to day 2. maybe i'm not lynched day 1, but I already claimed town and mafia is probably going to kill me during the night so you have nothing to worry about. and is that a threat by the way? you say you believe me to be town, but then you would go ahead and lynch me anyway? I claimed already. whether you believe me or not I see it scummy that you would do so much to want to lynch someone who is town.
and guille with his 2 huge posts with a bunch of links, doesn't make me feel good about him. like i said before, if mollie is town, i think scum are really banking on getting her lynched today. and by guille making huge cases, it will provide town with all sorts of 'evidence' to lynch her. and then, when she flips town, guille will point back to his posts and say 'well, look at everything i had on her!' why is he going to such huge effort to get her lynched?
I disagree with this. Upon my re-read of Guille's two posts on the matter, I found it for the most part, well reasoned, especially her over-reaction to Hawk's Guille tarp and how Mollie insisting that I am treating her as town is cog-dis.
It is obvious though that Mantis is protecting Mollie in any way that she can. Even though I am starting to see that Mantis' posts are kind of with everything always qualified, I think she is genuinely scum hunting. I am hoping it might be a D1 issue and not a playstyle issue.
In post 610, ProHawk wrote:Levi!!! You are killing me. If you can, without going back to look at the post you quoted, paraphrase the whole thing, then I might believe you actually agree with it - the whole thing.
You quoted a post, and said "I agree". This is the most lazy, lackluster post full of nothing. You are being lazy and not contributing. If I didn't have you on my list of prob-town, you would be due for a D1 lynch. Keep it up and you will be the D2 lynch.
@hawk you are completely wrong about me quoting something and saying "I agree" what I said was that "believed this analysis makes her seem town to me" yes I technically agree with her disagreement about meta with you. but that wasn't what I was saying. nor was I saying that her disagreement with you made you scum. When I said later I agreed to it when you made your post about me quoting someone and wanting my "real" input I said it was because I agreed with it too. then you said that my agreement is lazy and not contributing. how is it not contributing? i'm giving you my thoughts even if they come from someone else. shouldn't that tell you my side of things and what I believe and how I act? and whether I am scum or town or not? and personally I don't think i'm going to make it to day 2. maybe i'm not lynched day 1, but I already claimed town and mafia is probably going to kill me during the night so you have nothing to worry about. and is that a threat by the way? you say you believe me to be town, but then you would go ahead and lynch me anyway? I claimed already. whether you believe me or not I see it scummy that you would do so much to want to lynch someone who is town.
Your ISO has become the lightest of any player here. Have you read every post in this game (caught up)?
@adam I know it has gotten light. I have been busy recently. I have read most of the posts in this game currently and rereading the beginning now. My thoughts on the game so far is that there is was a battle about shrimp's alignment. that i feel has pretty much ended as of now. My current view was that even though he may have had bad reasonings i see him as town possibly frustrated town. As for Hawk. I thought him very actively good at scum hunting in the beginning as well as really wanting someone to be lynched (could be wanting it to be scum, but that could be debatable now). he didn't necessarily state he wanted a lynch but i feel he really wants someone to take a fall. As for you, you continue to be updated and posting your thoughts and asking questions for clarification as well. i see it as maybe not getting the best results, but at least you are trying. Mala seems to be consistently showing innocence and attempting scum hunting. Mollie played a bit scummy in the beginning and wasn't good at answering questions directed at her in an innocent manner and yet i feel her reasoning in itself is solid. Guille seems innocent and helpful to be now, but I get this weird feeling that people don't really believe that and i'm curious of that matter. All i see is innocence and helpful pro town actions. could be a play, but i don't know. borkfkergin or whatever seems innocent as well and more helpful then code x was. he seems innocent. Mantis i don't have much of a read on.
In post 470, ProHawk wrote:Shrimp, Guilles scumminess is in plain sight, but beyond the field of view. Go re-read guille's posts and you should pick some up. If not, give us reasons why you think he is town and we can go from there.
Mollie, only if you are a girl cause guys' radiant beauty generally have no effect on me. Also, you forgot one of the biggest aspects of working with someone. It would also give you the knowledge of what exactly to do to fool the other. You have already refuted your point in a previous post, so this angle isn't a good one to work. Meta cases are weak.
I somewhat disagree with you hawk boy. lol, just got into a post game discussion with majiffy over this cos he pretty much agrees with you. I use meta when it is a player that I know pretty well. like I know their work schedules, sleep schedules, etc. meta is not the only scumhunting tool I have in my box, I use different things for different games. in some games meta is the
only
tool I have cos some players will be so objectively scummy game after game and lynching or fosing doesn't seem to have an effect on them so they are not going to improve their game no matter what you do so you have to learn their town tells and most definitely their special tells. <----- do you guys call these relative tells here?
meta or pattern-matching should not be used when you are new or if you suck at it. it is only an asset if you can provide consistent reasoning behind what they are thinking or how they are posting in the game but then when it comes to making cases based on meta alone you are right it is pretty weak and you have to develope a reputation for it in order to get people to listen to you. but sometimes I have known who scum were on d2 just by the nk choice alone and that is a meta thing.
having said all of that my town read on mantis
is
meta based cos of her hardcore wk of adam which tbh I don't fully understand but then she often sees things that I don't. her posts look genuine to me but I get why this looks suspicious to other people who don't know us or our history or why we would think the way that we do.
the thing is that I have been a part of more town wins as town by finding town rather than just trying to find scum. you make me nervous cos I am not entirely sure what as scum you are capable of. if I had a barometer of what your scum game looked like you would be easier to read and no I am not going to look at your previous games cos I am not in them. I reaction test in a different way and I am not about to give up what I am looking for. I have shifted you to town but probably for reasons you might not understand. I am more of a lateral thinker.
I definitely see this as being pro town or a townish thing to say. Mollie feels town to me.
While in this post you did not state "I agree" you said you did in post #589 which is where I was coming from.
Now it may be easy for you to understand what part of the post is "pro town or a townish thing to say", but us on the outside who cannot look inside your head don't understand. Take a look at the following Levi: This is a point by point content breakdown of the post you quoted.
1) Mollie somewhat disagrees with ProHawk
2) Mollie gets into a post game discussion with Majiffy over meta.
3) Mollie uses meta cases on players she knows well.
4) Sometimes Mollie's only tool is meta due to players consistently playing scummy
5) Mollie says people who are new or suck at meta should not use it.
6) Mollie agrees with Prohawk that meta cases alone are pretty weak.
7) Mollie says you need a reputation in order for people to listen to you.
8) Mollie feels that night kill analysis is a meta thing.
9) Mollie's town read on Mantis is 100% meta.
10) Mollie doesn't fully understand Mantis' hardcore wk (work?) of Adam.
11) Mollie feels that Mantis often sees things she doesn't.
12) Mollie believes that Mantis' posts feel genuine.
13) Mollie understands why her meta case on Mantis looks suspicious to others.
14) Mollie wins more games as town by finding town rather than just finding scum.
15) Prohawk causes nervous feelings in Mollie because she doesn't know what he is capable of as scum.
16) Mollie feels with a barometer of ProHawk's scum game he would be easier to read.
17) Mollie refuses to read ProHawk's scum game.
18) Mollie reaction tests in a different way.
19) Mollie shifts ProHawk to her town list but for reasons ProHawk might not understand.
20) Mollie self claims a lateral thinker.
Now Levi.... which is it exactly? Do you think 1-(Mollie somewhat disagrees with ProHawk) is pro-town or townish? Is it 1-4, 1-9, 4-9, 9-20, all of the above? I know my personal favorite is #17 - Mollie refuses to read ProHawk's scum game. Do you understand why post #586 does nothing for us? You may as well have just said Mollie feels town to me. We got about the same amount of information.
Post #619/620 & 621 is getting better... confusing, but at least it gives us a little bit of what you are thinking.
Re: 625 - Who cares if you "claimed" town? You are by no means confirmed and have provided us with little to base reads on. If scum is smart you will live a long and fruitful life until we lynch you, you improve your play, or we win. I am not even going to go down the road of explaining why keeping you around to LYLO with your current play is certain death for us.
Even though I think Mantis is scum hunting I think she can benefit from your advice as well since I have encountered several posts now where she pretty much says the same thing.
adam, hawk boy, does that explain why mantis thinks that I am town? when you have played together that much you pretty much have a good grasp of their meta. while mantis and I both have the potential to sneak past each other as scum it is very rare that one of us will give the other a super strong town read and it not be correct.
@Mantis: So is that correct or is it you want to wait until later. I don't recall you commenting on this yet?
no, i don't think i have commented on it.
i'm not going to say much right now. But, i am second guessing (sorry mollie). Just reading through guille's posts - i like them.. they come across as calm and they're clear too.
In post 497, Shrimp85 wrote:
And in one of your latest posts, you say " Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day. "
I really don't agree. Adam-12 is seriously getting a town read from me, and Guille has done nothing else than make a case on those he finds suspicious.
no, i said: Adam - levi or guille should be..... etc
note the dash, i was speaking to him. but on second thought, i shouldn't be telling people who to lynch i guess. I have adam as town as well.
hmmm. Your original statement had no dash. the original is ambiguous so I can understand any confusion.
yep, i realized my mistake in post 547.
anyway, UNVOTE: guille
There are a few things that mollie said that i didn't like. the tanking thing and the scum perfume. those do stick out to me.
and mollie, i haven't heard you say those kinds of things before. they can be seen as excuses.
going to take a slow re read of maybe the last 8 pages or so. and maybe do a reset, since guille isn't seeming as scummy to me, as before.
In post 632, Adam-12 wrote:Even though I think Mantis is scum hunting I think she can benefit from your advice as well since I have encountered several posts now where she pretty much says the same thing.
oh i tend to repeat myself, i become disillusioned into thinking that the more i say what i think to be true, the more it will come across as true!
anyway, what did you guys think of guille's latest posts?
In post 635, Adam-12 wrote:I am having personal issues in my life right now but I am going to fight to catch up -- it just might be a little slower than I would like.
hope everything is ok *hugs*
there's still plenty of time till deadline, so i wouldn't worry too much about not keeping up to date every day
In post 633, ProHawk wrote:You take actual notes? You work way harder than I do
I have found I don't always read things correctly the first time through. I think Mantis has the same issue. Taking notes forces me to mentally process what is said, its not 100% perfect but it is demonstrably better than simply reading.
In post 632, Adam-12 wrote:Even though I think Mantis is scum hunting I think she can benefit from your advice as well since I have encountered several posts now where she pretty much says the same thing.
oh i tend to repeat myself, i become disillusioned into thinking that the more i say what i think to be true, the more it will come across as true!
anyway, what did you guys think of guille's latest posts?
Some of his points a I disagree with but as a whole I am liking his recovery process and mostly agree with him.
Calm... a little too calm if you ask me. He was up on the lynching block twice. Oh Guille, you have earned bonus points for making more than one post today, but you still failed to comment on your wagon which you promised to do.
I need to see what you have to say before I delve into your logical inconsistencies. Thanks!
In post 632, Adam-12 wrote:Even though I think Mantis is scum hunting I think she can benefit from your advice as well since I have encountered several posts now where she pretty much says the same thing.
What I meant here was that you seem to make statements that make a conclusion but don't give us insight as to why so we can properly gauge your perceptions.
In post 640, ProHawk wrote:Calm... a little too calm if you ask me. He was up on the lynching block twice. Oh Guille, you have earned bonus points for making more than one post today, but you still failed to comment on your wagon which you promised to do.
In post 632, Adam-12 wrote:Even though I think Mantis is scum hunting I think she can benefit from your advice as well since I have encountered several posts now where she pretty much says the same thing.
What I meant here was that you seem to make statements that make a conclusion but don't give us insight as to why so we can properly gauge your perceptions.
I can see that. i tend to play a lot by gut feel.. which, of course doesn't always work. but sometimes does very well.
but can be more difficult to explain.
i think that's why i was saying that mollie seemed very town. she appealed to emotion and the fact that there were inconsistencies seems more likely a town thing to do. i've seen town, quite a lot, just say things off the top of their head. and sometimes that involves discrepancies, which scum love to latch onto.
that's why i thought guille was scummy.
but, i am second guessing now, because like i said in post 634 (repeating yes), that there have been a few things that really could be seen as excuses on mollie's part.
1. disagreeing has nothing to do with the read anyone could have possibly disagreed but i give her points for an honest challenge of you from her side
2. a pointless addition to this thing. it is just her bringing her outside information for her argument.
3. I would say this helps her point to you and is a good thing to bring up. meta can be used on experienced players, not newbs like me who don't have a meta yet and are "prone to mistakes" as you experienced players often put it. I think thats town points.
4. This again is information that i feel gives her town points for me. she is trying to say the consistency of scumminess causes her to look at meta in players. a scumhunting tactic i'd say.
5. again, I personally agree with this. I am a noob and i don't use other players meta because i highly don't i would use it correctly and make too many mistakes. though completely logical and almost obvious. id say another town thing.
6. and agreement was found. you both agree on something that i feel makes perfect sense. town. for the most part. could be playing along, but i still disagree. she is being consistent here.
7. a valid point she states. I'm playing with a character named thor in another game and he is IC and i'd say VERY experienced. I listen to him, but and I feel no one listens to me in most games because i'm a noob. town points
8. It can be. scum may want to go for the most skillful player who could possibly find out who they are. there are other factors too of course. town points.
9. that is her own personal opinion or feeling. how can you disagree with this? are you saying shes lying? shes trying to be helpful and not necessarily accuse him since she points out that meta alone is not really all that valid. town points
10. and should she? if she doesn't understand maybe she should ask. but she still states she doesn't. is that scummy or town. i see null but i'm still leaning more town.
11. this could be an observation and is she right? maybe. again. its a statement i feel. nothing naturally scummy about it. is it town. at least she is putting information out there. which I always see as a town thing.
12. that is her read so far. if only based on meta or what. neither scum nor town.
13. she stated that meta wasn't enough so she understands her own fall. could be a smart play or an honesty play. both. but i lean town.
14. that is a strategy and if it has helped her win then good for her. apparently it works. just a thought that could possibly help town in this game. town points.
15. more opinion. I see it as honest opinion. she wants to get it out there what she feels so other innocent people can take a look into it and possibly back her up. town points.
16. if she knows your meta as scum it may help her decide what you are in this game. that is helpful information for all the time. town points.
17. could be laziness. or scumminess. more scumminess then town though. no town points
18. who cares if someone reaction tests in a different way. if they are trying to help town its trying to help town. points for trying at least.
19. don't really know what "reasons he might not understand" means. don't know what to think of this one.
20. she feels what she feels. anyone want to argue with that? no points added.
and regardless if you believe me or not, I wanted to see how it would help this game progress. i don't see how scum would be smart to keep me alive. especially if everyone believes i'm town. then when I get to the end it would show who is scum because I'm confirmed town. at least in my own eyes and the scums eyes. im probably going to be a nightkill either day1 or day 2. and sorry for forcing you. =P
Good Levi, keep it up. We need to see more of this from you. Unfortunately, you will never be confirmed town unless I can get an unintentional town-slip out of you like I did from Shrimp, however from my experience this is very rare.
9. that is her own personal opinion or feeling. how can you disagree with this? are you saying shes lying? shes trying to be helpful and not necessarily accuse him since she points out that meta alone is not really all that valid. town points
In post 449, ProHawk wrote:Anyone else notice how he managed to make it all the way to L-1, with my voicings of impending doom causing the not so innocent to lash out in anger and he fails to even mention anything about it?
I did not think it was necessary at the time. My post at the time concentrated on Adam and Mantis who were voting me. Everyone else, I had no suspicion at the moment, (Hawk and Levi). I had the sense that it was a town driven wagon and found I had nothing else to add that wasn't already said.
