Mini 1400(!): Bubble Tape Mafia - It's Over!

[Thor665]

@ Thor - based on my skimming, no I don't feel he is. It looks like he's trying to appear busy, but nothing of value is coming from his posts.

Why are you skimming as opposed to reading when making those sorts of calls?
Do you stand by your skim reads? I mean, why even tell me it's a skim read?

[Dunhamganger]

Vote Count #2

kushm4sta:

4 (SafetyDance, MaverickMaestro, Cybertronix, Thor665)

Cybertronix:

2 (k4shmasta, d3x)

MaverickMaestro:

1 (Dave168)

d3x:

1 (AngryPideon)

AngryPidgeon:

1 (zipperflesh)

zipperflesh:

1 (DoubleJD)

Not Voting:

3 (Leonshade, Devourer359, Jake from State Farm)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

VC 1 has been changed to reflect that I forgot k4shmasta's vote for whatever reason.

[AngryPidgeon]

2. I would agree there is a contradiction there, you should make a wagon happen.

Im voting him.

He accused you of voting for "the sake of a wagon". Is that true? Did you ever say you were doing that? Your vote has been a PL vote, correct? Why is d3x saying that Cyber's PL vote is scummy and yours isn't?

Also sec. in a game of lol.

[zipperflesh]

Last game I was in with MM, he posted fluff for the first post and he was town.

VOTE: Jake from State Farm because Flo from Progressive says, "Hi"

INTRODUCTION TO ME:
Heyyyyy.
No one played with me before in this game.
I have 1 game on this site= a newbie game that I replaced into as scum. I won.
I have played many games on the site teamliquid.
I like their games better because the days are usually 48 hours and the nights are 24 hours. I just prefer that kind of set up much more. But I'm here anyway because I got banned for suiciding in some stupid theme game.
My scumtraits: I love to bus. I find it very hard as scum to come up with fake cases against town, so I invariably bus my scumteam.
I much prefer the role of town. I like figuring things out rather than already knowing everything.

My first impression is I agree with AP about Cyber.
In post 8 he defends Mav for no reason.
He makes a dumb joke backing up a bullshit vote (Flo from Progressive is so hot though omg).
This joke is by far the fluffiest most useless thing in the thread so far.

Post 11 looks like fake tryharding. I mean really?? He's going to look into his meta this early for something so insignificant. I doubt a normal player would say or do that.

vote: cyber

Naw, 'of course' is a scum tell. As is "My recollection of your bad methods is that I answer 'of course' you should just believe me." but you are scum independent of alignment.

If you believe that, why ask?
Derp.

P-edit: I think MM is town actually. Ok, I'll lynch Kushmasta

Why is MM town?

@Maestro - why not just wait to post then?

I could be game to lynch kushm4sta too.

That's not my style, I'd rather be active and involved in a game as opposed to being in the background.

My bad, that first post was totally active and involved, I just didn't realize.

Unvote: MaverickMaestro
Vote: kushm4sta

Huzzah, speed lynch ho!

@Zipper - so slow!

@MM - Your logic is bad, and I hope you cure yourself of it sooner rather than later.
Now is the time to drop the discussion you're claiming to drop and offer the reads you have to prove you are actually scumhunting as opposed to being a lump.

@Zipper - I approve.

I'm guessing that Thor voted him for only the first of those two reasons, which does not seem scummy to me.

I voted him because he already had a vote on him.

Hi Thor! Thoughts on Cyber's response to me? Opinion on Jake?

P-edit: Hi Thor! Pretty sure Thor is town. I would know because *mumble mumble meta mumble gut reads HURRRRR*

1. I currently lean Jake scum and Cyber null with probably townish vibes, but neither read is very solid.

2. I still don't think you can read me for a hill of beans. We've already established in other games that you actually don't know my meta and I'm amazed you want to whip that out again.

Why are you ignoring the wagon on [insert obnoxious to type name here]?

Kill me if you want to kill me.. It's only d1, I'm not invested in this game try, and I can just join another.

And no i do not care about this site's inbred meta or myriad useless abbreviations and I never will.

I haven't thought about any of the recent things said, so right now don't have any updated scumreads.
I just wanted to respond to all tjese people voting for me and let you guys know that I don't give a shit if you kill me but it's a bad lynch for town.

Haha, yeah this is our lynch.

Kill me for my honesty and be wrong.

Replace out?

If he's town he's not giving up - he's not playing.
Big difference.

d3x is town and reinforces my opinion on Cyber.

I played about 10 games I think so I'm not technically a noob.
I'm playing...what is this nonsense about replacing out.
Atm its just that I'm on my phone. It's easier to defend mysrlf than scumhunt.

So then you're agreeing that you're not actually doing much to help the game...so I don't know why a replace out request would seem surprising.

Basically you've claimed the following.
1. You're not scumhunting.
2. The wagon on you is so bad you'll insult people but do nothing else about it (and will call this 'defending')
3. You don't actually care if you die, because you don't have any care about the game.

Point 3 alone is a good reason to replace out all by itself. You're supposed to play to win, and if #3 is true then...you aren't. Since, statistically, you're more likely to be on my side than not, *I* rather care if you die in a stupid way while town. So, if you're town replace out so maybe someone who cares about my wincon will be in the slot? If you're scum...same deal, you're screwing over your buddies (unless your plan is to shove it towards a quicklynch and cut off conversation) you owe it to them to be better than this because, again, you're supposed to help them win. So, again, replacing out is a good solution because it will give them a partner who actually gives a hang about winning like, I presume, they do.

My thoughts.

[zipperflesh]

its pretty clear to me that Thors vote was for the wagon. it wasn't. until after kush used AtE that Thor seemed to be pushing for a replace out.

yeah Im happy. with my vote.

[AngryPidgeon]

The point?

You do realize post 53 was talking about Thor's RVS vote on MM and not his vote on Kush?

@Thor: So you are agreeing with me that D3x's stance contradicts itself but refused to answer whether or not that is scummy. You instead gave me a hand-wavy BS response "Go start a wagon on him then!". I repeat. Is d3x scummy for that? Why are you on a PL when you agree that d3x islikely scum for takinga stance on you that contradicts itself?

[AngryPidgeon]

But, you know. Fuck context and all that shit.

[Thor665]

He accused you of voting for "the sake of a wagon". Is that true? Did you ever say you were doing that? Your vote has been a PL vote, correct? Why is d3x saying that Cyber's PL vote is scummy and yours isn't?

Accuse is poorly used here - he simply said that's what he thinks.

Honestly, both that and a policy lynch re really functionally two ways of saying the same thing, that part of your point is silly. The curious point is that he sees what I did as a reaction push and sees what Cyber did as scummy - that's the contradiction.

I also note a lack of quotes.
You derp.

You are right, I didn't call it scummy. I wonder why.

[Thor665]

I repeat.

Is d3x scummy for that?

Why are you on a PL when

you agree that d3x islikely scum

for takinga stance on you that contradicts itself?

You are so derp.

[AngryPidgeon]

Honestly, both that and a policy lynch re really functionally two ways of saying the same thing

But you are town to him for voting as such and Cyber is scum to him for voting as such.

Why is that not scummy?

[AngryPidgeon]

Wow. I actually can't stand talking to scum-Thor. It makes me want to self-vote.

blatant discrediting everywhere.

[Thor665]

I said it was contradictory.
It's not scummy because there are myriad reasons town might say something stupid and I don't see it as a home run scum move.

You would, i presume, claim that town can and will say derp things while pushing their reads...so why is his worse than others?

[Thor665]

blatant discrediting everywhere.

Well....gonna quote me saying that thing you said I said and that I called you a liar for?
I promised to stop calling you derp if you did.
I'll expand that to not discrediting you for the rest of this game if, when you can't provide it, you stop mewling about how I don't think you're a good player and how that somehow makes me scummy.

[zipperflesh]

The point?

You do realize post 53 was talking about Thor's RVS vote on MM and not his vote on Kush?

@Thor: So you are agreeing with me that D3x's stance contradicts itself but refused to answer whether or not that is scummy. You instead gave me a hand-wavy BS response "Go start a wagon on him then!". I repeat. Is d3x scummy for that? Why are you on a PL when you agree that d3x islikely scum for takinga stance on you that contradicts itself?

No i didn't. i just isod Thor and kush. however, the point remains the same... Thors vote was not. a PL vote.

[AngryPidgeon]

Thors vote was not. a PL vote.

He accused you of voting for "the sake of a wagon". Is that true?

Honestly, both that and a policy lynch re really functionally two ways of saying the same thing,

Thor just admitted to voting for policy 6 posts ago. Your point that he didn't is provably wrong. I don't even know what to say. This is going to be one of those games, isn't it? The game where I wish I were a vigilante.

------------------

Ok, Thor. You can argue that you didn't outright say it was a scum-lynch, but your response to my post HEAVILY implies it:

Also

his Kushmasta scumread is scummy

and he should feel scummy.

Do tell?

Why didn't you say "I don't have a scumread on Kush? Why do you think I do?" Or "What is scummy about my Kush policy vote?"

You can't tell me that post 88 isn't a

damn

good reason for me to understand that your vote on Kush IS a real vote. Why would you not correct me if you did not think Kush was scummy at the time? And yes I know you stated that your vote is a PL in the next 6 minutes and that is all well and good. But you can't argue that post 88 did not heavily imply it was a vote on scum. Why not call me out on being wrong in my assertion that it was?

You didn't say anything about your vote before that other than 'wagon ho' and

Why are you ignoring the wagon on [insert obnoxious to type name here]?

Am I turning into Mastin2?

Gah. Im actually really worked up now. So I'll post a reads list since that will take my mind off the horror of this thread.

Scum:
Thor
D3x

Possible scum:
Dave

Town:
Jake from All State
Cyber
Maverick M

Leaning town:
Kush
SafetyDance
Zipper

The rest:
DoubleJD
Devourer
LeonShade

[Dave168]

So the team is probably Dex/Dave/Thor? Or is that too obvioius?

AP, although you have conceded only 2 out of 3 might be scum, has it occurred to you that your "scum" are the people who are frequently posting at that time? With 13 players, I doubt that 2 or 3 scums can be found in the roughly half of players who were active posters at the time.

A lot of your play is highly speculative and convoluted; although you look like you are hunting scums, my limited thinking and posting time would probably be better spent talking to other people, after I have finished dealing with the current round of questions.

[AngryPidgeon]

Lets see...Is it maybe that they are posting a lot BECAUSE I am walling up the thread with them? Oh, thats probably it. Me thinking they are scum ----> quote wars with them. Not: Quote wars ---> me think they are scum.

Correlation and causation. All that good jazz. I know I do need to see

more

anything from Leon and Devourer. Eh, maybe you aren't scum. But d3x/Thor are good votes and you should sheep it up.

[Dave168]

Who are you asking to confirm this? I'm really not sure I can be confident about a single scum, let alone three.

Im asking Dunhamganger obviously. And ya Im pretty confident at least 2 of you are.

Wouldn't me changing my mind a lot be indicative that I in fact DON'T know who the scum are?

Well Im now listing you as obvscum. So Im scummy for everything I'm currently doing, despite past things becoming no longer scumy? MMMMhmmmmm. Tell me more, scumbag168.

Read on Thor? He is avtively trying to discredit me in his posts, confirm/deny?

I was hoping for you to scumslip and reveal that you did in fact know who the other scums are. Or to scumslip and get a "friend" to agree with you on something, perhaps to identify two scums. It appears you did not do so.

Since you continuously change your vote, you might be trying to investigate everyone systematically like I am. That would be good. Or it might indicate you don't know who scums are. That is good, you would be town then. Or you could be faking it, pretending to not know who scums are. That would be bad. So really I don't know what to think about you for sure.

I will read back through and try and get a feel for Thor and interactions with you and others. Right now I've not had time to concentrate on it. There are approx 20 days left of Day 1, and I'm sure it can wait a few RL days. But as I said, many things are far more convoluted than I am used to, including Thor-AP interactions; I'm more used to drawing straightforward deductions from plain facts, rather than several layers of WIFOM reasoning. But maybe I will be able to draw a definite conclusion.

[AngryPidgeon]

WIFOM reasoning

I feel my d3x contradiction was pretty conclusive and not based on WIFOM. He isn't thinking from a town-mindset. His questions are all easy to blend in with. His opinions on the Kush wagon do not make sense.

Read Thor's posts. Tell me he isn't acting superior for the sake of discrediting everyone around him. I never do meta cases but if it will convince you to vote Thor, I'll fish some supporting evidence up.

And don't EVEN tell me that maybe this is just Thor being Thor. He's pushing my buttons to make me rage and he knows it. Fuck that.

[Dave168]

@Dave p101 - In your OP {p9} you said you wouldn't self vote, Safety had only posted 5 times on site, and that you found MM 'the scummier of the other two'. In your reasons, you didn't mention Leon. I am curious why.

I really have already dealt with this, but lets lay it to rest:

I have no problem believing that MaverickMaestro is scummier

out of the two remaining

. Better join the wagon then.

Leon was the other out of the two remaining. At the time I had an extra reason to vote for MM than for Leon.

@Leonshade: Why were you late to confirm?

I still await an answer to this question. Its still less than 1 day RL. Anyway, although I was happy to wagon MM, I had never forgotten about Leon. Anyone who says I had forgotten is twisting the evidence, which is scummy.

[SafetyDance]

And heeeere we go...!

@Safety

- What exactly do you find scummy with kush's p19? Not understanding a reason to post something =/= Scum posting.

p87- What are you smoking AP?

1. Safety voted for reasons I've listed elsewhere along with his continued posting w/o even mentioning the Wagon that he started.

I never said kush was definitely scum, I don't know that. It was my first post and out of everything I saw on page one that was what leapt out at me as suspicious because to me its confusing why someone would post like that. There's bragging in it, he's posted his playing style like we should accept it as fact. How on earth could we trust anything like that on page 1? I still can't trust anything said now.

He still hasn't answered why he would post such a thing except for saying don't vote him or an AtE post. That doesn't let him off the hook in my opinion.

I'm not sure I follow your second quote here. I only posted a couple of times afterwards before I had to leave the computer. Not sure where 'continued' comes into or where I needed to explain the wagon. I can't explain the wagon, I have no idea who the other people are who voted for him afterwards or why they did so except for their own reasons stated in their post.

***

The following four pages are difficult to read. There seems to be a lot of bickering between posters. Nothing stands out at the moment but then my eyes started to glaze other some of those quote-walls. Will just have to re-read again to see if anything hints at scum.

Some rambling thoughts:
-Jake From State Farm: has barely said anything of substance in any of his posts. Why? What does role-playing a commercial achieve?
-AngryPidgeon/Thor665: their discussions with each other, one of them may be right. can they both be right/wrong? Can't really get any definite town or scum reads from either but arguing over 2-3 pages this early on, I think one at least will be definite town.
-zipperflesh: why was he sheeping thor in the first place and now defending/agreeing with him in the same arguments? Is there a meta-clique here or is it a game strategy? It doesn't seem smart for maf to band together so obviously so early on but then everyone seems to be very experienced so is it a case of wifom?
-dave168/d3x: both are asking a lot of questions which makes the appear very pro-town. which could mean they're trying to appear town because their scum and information works both ways too.

[Leonshade]

Exam in an hour, will join the game after it.

@Dave:

Due to a combination of the aforementioned exam and my weird timezone, I saw the PMs later than most. I confirmed as soon as I saw them.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ Thor - based on my skimming, no I don't feel he is. It looks like he's trying to appear busy, but nothing of value is coming from his posts.

Why are you skimming as opposed to reading when making those sorts of calls?
Do you stand by your skim reads? I mean, why even tell me it's a skim read?

Cause when I'm busy and not on a PC I skim read, don't act like this is news to you all of a sudden cause in [redacted] we had a very similar conversation about me and my skimming.

All I did was warn whoever it was that you can't give town points to someone who "appears" to be scumhunting. He didn't even seem to be confident enough to say he was actually doing it. I pointed it out I was skimming because I felt its relevant to the question you asked me. I haven't say down and fully read the game yet so I couldn't say 100% if he was actually scum hunting or not.

There is so much I want to say to you but can't so I'm ignoring your reads and urge everyone else to. You can't read people for shit. That's why I called zipperhead or whatever an idiot. Can't really say much more on that.

If anyone wants to do a thorn lynch, lmk. 50% chance he's scum, 50% chance we get rid if a player detrimental to town. Win/win IMO.

The reason I say that is you refuse to consider anyone could be right, even when you are wrong you still think you are right. You want to always lead and never let other people who are actually making sense lead.

& pidgeon - seriously, get off my jock. Idk if you are Town or scum, but i've never been buddied this hard in my life.

I plan on re-reading later, it's how I play

[Dave168]

OK, something I don't get:

Sheeping: mentioned posts 29 (by zipper), 78 (AngryPidgeon), 141 (AngryPidgeon).
Sheeping being stupid: posts 52 (Jake from State Farm), 57 (MaverickMaestro).

Either sheeping is good, or it is bad. I'd assume that anyone who says something like "do what I do because I'm doing it" should not automatically be believed. Is that not what sheeping is? As soon as someone mentions sheep, does it somehow become a positive thing?

@Zipper or AP, are JFSF, MM wrong?
@JFSF, MM: are Zipper, AP wrong?

[Dave168]

In depth analysis later when I've got time, right now its looking like some time Thursday.