Mini 1400(!): Bubble Tape Mafia - It's Over!

[d3x]

Found it, top of 11. I missed that in my reread.

[d3x]

Ninja'd

[d3x]

This thread needs more Leon... and Devourer's slot... and a few other peeps.

[d3x]

--QuadraPost--

@Cyber p82 *

snip

* why don't you want MM to draw attention to himself?

Hey Cyber, I just realized you never answered this. I'd like that answer now, plz.

side note- Apparently, I'm the only one awake at this God forsaken hour.

[Dave168]

Interim response - I promised something more substantial by the end of Thursday (it is now 830am here).

Unvote: AP
Vote: Dave

Why do you keep your reasoning to yourself? I object to AP's habit of filling pages, but... nothing?

misleading and loaded question

Lol? It wasn't a multiple choice test FFS. You could have said "Im town." Or. "I don't know". Or. "I don't understand the question"

But you were in a flurry to answer it and you seem to care an awful lot about how your answer is perceived. Which is scummy.

Cyber/Zipper are my top town reads.
MM/Jake/Kushmasta/SD's-replacement are moderate town reads.

VOTE: Dave
I like where this wagon is going. Dave's starts by giving a meh answer, but then immediately feels the need to clarify it. And then he accuses me of setting him up after that. And to fulfill the self-fulfilling prophecy I am now voting Dave for his response to my question.

Eh, Thor might be town. Still doubt it. But d3x/DoubleJD are both making me

Fine. I get it. I look for scum slips, and give what looks like a scum slip. How ironic.

I've read further down the thread and am seeing some hilarious stuff, e.g. post 248 kushm4sta, where he waited until some big shots start voting me before really pressing into me; compare this with the two previous posts after my error; post 201, post 227. Now everybody claims to know exactly what i "meant" in earlier posts. Also AP - you are waaaaay off. MM - you're still probably scum, were you afraid to vote me in post 232? Generally speaking, love seeing the reinterpretation of my motives in everything I've ever said to be scummy. Lol to drawing conclusions from first post of the day... think again, good townies out there. You now have a large body of evidence produced by my folly, and will probably find scum on the wagon, or lurking in the background sniping.

I'm not a big shot around MS, and I guess success day 1 for town or for scum would involve playing well and not doing a stupid thing. So I made an error. So I posted twice more because I was upset of not playing well to my win condition, of looking like I'd given a vague answer, an answer that if I hadn't posted to clarify would probably be twisted by a scum. So it bother folks that I correct myself. I'll defend myself, because only the scum minority would benefit if I didn't.

I'll proceed with the more substantial analysis of early day 1, and probably won't post again until its complete.

[kushm4sta]

@Dave I did not "wait for big shots." I was on my phone when I made those 1 liners. When I got home I made the bigger post.
Also what is your point? Are you saying I'm scummy for it or is it just a random insult?

[Jake from State Farm]

ok I have read Dave's posts but before I say anymore I have 3 questions.

1. Why did you decide to look up confirmation delays on the wiki, take me through your thought process.
2. can you link me to the page where you found it and also explain to the best of your ability how you found that page.
3. Why did you choose the phrase "I don't self-vote" over "I am not scum"

Take your time, I'll be here all day.

[MaverickMaestro]

*snip*
3. Why did you choose the phrase "I don't self-vote" over "I am not scum"
*snip*

Probably for the same reason as this...

*snip*
I'm not a big shot around MS, and I guess success day 1 for town or for scum would involve playing well and not doing a stupid thing. So I made an error. So I posted twice more because I was upset of

not playing well to my win condition

, of looking like I'd given a vague answer, an answer that if I hadn't posted to clarify would probably be twisted by a scum. So it bother folks that I correct myself. I'll defend myself, because only the scum minority would benefit if I didn't.

Not playing well to my win condition is an ambiguous term. If you're playing town, tell it how it is. "I was upset of not playing well in the scum hunt."

I'll proceed with the more substantial analysis of early day 1, and probably won't post again until its complete.

William Shatner said brevity is the soul of wit. You're better off with smaller posts. Why post a wall and then withdraw from play? That's anti town.

[Jake from State Farm]

nobody asked for your input. go away

[Dave168]

@Jake - I can answer those quickly:

This is my third game, my first two were newbies a few years ago. Since I'm a bit rusty, I decided to learn as much as I can from the wiki before the game. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... mmon_Tells was one page I read. An article caught my eye: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... sane_Tells. Here is a tell about confirmation. Its not considered particularly reliable, but was a better basis for voting IMO than purely random. That, along with MM's first post not actually appearing to scum hunt, was my basis for voting which you can see in my first post.

Another tell (which has been alluded to in this thread) is claiming to be town. Some people call it a scum tell. Others don't. All I can do is show you a link to my second game where an exchange with Sensfan put me off claiming to be town unless I can prove I'm town to everyone. Here it is: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p1851799. In confirmation there was a list of 13 names, 9 of which has * by them (confirmed). For accuracy sake, I included myself in the list of 4 unconfirmed (without *) since that was what my screenshot showed. But of course I wouldn't vote for myself. I chose "I don't self-vote" over "I'm not scum" since the second is claiming to be town, and the first is just common sense for anyone.

[Jake from State Farm]

MM--He said he likes to be active but his recent activity is 1 liners and not many at that. Really weak, scared play so far. You will see if you ISO him.

I've been at work, I'm tired. Sue me.

Will be reading in just a few ticks, busy at the moment.

besides aren't you supposedly in the process of providing something useful? wouldn't that be better than answering questions not directed at you?

MM could be scum you guys

[Kthxbye]

MM: in this game almost anything can be seen as anti-town. For instance, you ask him to say not playing well in the scum hunt. I've played games where people say that claiming town is scummy. Anything typed can be made to look scummy by the right person. It's judging the reactions of that person under pressure that gets the scum lynch.

That being said, p304 seems genuine enough imo. I'll leave my vote where it is till I see this grand analysis.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake - I can answer those quickly:

This is my third game, my first two were newbies a few years ago. Since I'm a bit rusty, I decided to learn as much as I can from the wiki before the game. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... mmon_Tells was one page I read. An article caught my eye: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... sane_Tells. Here is a tell about confirmation. Its not considered particularly reliable, but was a better basis for voting IMO than purely random. That, along with MM's first post not actually appearing to scum hunt, was my basis for voting which you can see in my first post.

Another tell (which has been alluded to in this thread) is claiming to be town. Some people call it a scum tell. Others don't. All I can do is show you a link to my second game where an exchange with Sensfan put me off claiming to be town unless I can prove I'm town to everyone. Here it is: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p1851799. In confirmation there was a list of 13 names, 9 of which has * by them (confirmed). For accuracy sake, I included myself in the list of 4 unconfirmed (without *) since that was what my screenshot showed. But of course I wouldn't vote for myself. I chose "I don't self-vote" over "I'm not scum" since the second is claiming to be town, and the first is just common sense for anyone.

hmm...

why would you use un-reliable data and pass it off as reliable?

to me it looks like you are trying justify your bandwagon vote with reasons other than sheeping and I have actually seen scum do that before.

I will wait for your response before I decide on your alignment

[Dave168]

@Jake: Yes, I had data, but where did I say or imply that my data was reliable? I don't recall doing so. No townie as far as I'm aware can have reliable data Day 1.

Also, if someone joins a wagon, surely its better that they have any reason (reliable or otherwise) rather than sheeping someone else? Earlier I questioned the value of sheeping, i.e. I think its probably a bad reason for doing something.

Finally - I gave two reasons for voting MM when I did so (1. late confirmation, 2. bad first post) and neither of these was because he already had a wagon on him. Most players join a wagon in any given game to get the pressure on someone and the info out. I have no problem joining wagons, but would prefer to do so for my own reasons, which at this stage are the only ones I can be certain about.

[Thor665]

Why do you keep your reasoning to yourself? I object to AP's habit of filling pages, but... nothing?

That's the best way to bus.

[MaverickMaestro]

nobody asked for your input. go away

Lovely.

MM--He said he likes to be active but his recent activity is 1 liners and not many at that. Really weak, scared play so far. You will see if you ISO him.

I've been at work, I'm tired. Sue me.

Will be reading in just a few ticks, busy at the moment.

besides aren't you supposedly in the process of providing something useful? wouldn't that be better than answering questions not directed at you?

MM could be scum you guys

Nah, I'm town.

MM: in this game almost anything can be seen as anti-town. For instance, you ask him to say not playing well in the scum hunt. I've played games where people say that claiming town is scummy. Anything typed can be made to look scummy by the right person. It's judging the reactions of that person under pressure that gets the scum lynch.

That being said, p304 seems genuine enough imo. I'll leave my vote where it is till I see this grand analysis.

Fair point, certainly one that I would agree with.

[Thor665]

nobody asked for your input. go away

Lovely.

He never got enough hugs as a kid - just learn to move past it.

[Jake from State Farm]

god, it's almost like Dave is too scummy to be scum.
my brain hurts.

p.edit - your mom gives me plenty of hugs now though.

[Thor665]

She's much friendlier than you, so I would expect that.

[Cybertronix]

--QuadraPost--

@Cyber p82 *

snip

* why don't you want MM to draw attention to himself?

Hey Cyber, I just realized you never answered this. I'd like that answer now, plz.

side note- Apparently, I'm the only one awake at this God forsaken hour.

I never said that I didn't want him to draw attention to himself. If he wants to that's fine. I asked him why he was doing it.

god, it's almost like Dave is too scummy to be scum.
my brain hurts.

p.edit - your mom gives me plenty of hugs now though.

Ouch. Let's keep it civil boys and more votes on Dave.

[Dave168]

@Jake: answer the question. Where did I say my data is reliable?

[Jake from State Farm]

You have never heard of jonin?

P. edit - well only an idiot would use unreliable data for a legitimate vote so...

[d3x]

I never said that I didn't want him to draw attention to himself.

I never said that you explicitly stated you didn't want him to draw attention to himself, but you sure inferred it.

I asked him the question because even if I did think he was town, his fluff posts draw attention to him.

Let me ask you again, why don't you want him to draw attention to himself? It seems to me that this is what you are saying in p82.

[Dave168]

Why do you keep your reasoning to yourself? I object to AP's habit of filling pages, but... nothing?

That's the best way to bus.

(My post 304 was in response to your vote for me, which had no specific reason attached.) Thor you're as reticent as AP is verbose. But your answer in 314 is so non-specific as to be meaningless. Who is bussing? You for being quiet? AP for filling pages? me for <something, please insert reason here>?

[Dave168]

@Jake: no who is Jonin?

Given 12 other people, a random vote (assuming by a townie) has P=<number of scums>/12 chance of hitting scum, for example if we have 3 scums in total there is a 3/12=1/4 chance of hitting scum at random.

Voting on the basis of a reason, no matter how spurious, can't lower the perceived chance of hitting scum below random (e.g. 1/4), but stands the chance of raising it significantly above random (perhaps to 50:50, maybe even higher). Data on day 1 can't be completely reliable. Where exactly is your problem with using unreliable data for a vote? And I have no idea what an illegitimate vote could be, so your word "legitimate" seems spurious.