Mini 1401 - Game over!

[Gorgon]

First wagon on Conman:

TheConman17 (L - 2):

Kthxbye, Gorgon, havingfitz, Slandaar, qwints

Then NS voted him, putting him at L-1, and I unvoted. I think that the chances of all scum having stayed off that wagon are pretty slim, as it was early in the game and so this was a ripe opportunity for distancing.

[Kthxbye]

....and....?

Might be the most worthless post I've seen.

"Look, I'm scum hunting without pointing any fingers or making any waves guys!!!"

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gorgon

I also don't like qwints, SiN, or NS. SiN is the only one of those 3 not being completely worthless but I just feel something is off about his posts...

[Gorgon]

It's not totally worthless, as it points the finger toward all the people on that particular wagon and is liable to get some kind of reaction from someone. Calling it worthless and voting me was pretty much the last reaction I expected from this, but hey, at least it's a reaction.

Anyway, just because I don't start the day by jumping right out and start pointing fingers at particular people it doesn't mean I'm not hunting, or at least trying to. I'm just pretty busy and well-fed ('tis the season for eating, at least for me) these days so my brain isn't exactly on overdrive, plus I honesty don't really have any solid leads right now, but I feel it's better to at least post something than nothing at all. I was kinda hoping I would get more geared up eventually, and seeing that my laid-back attitude has earned me a vote I probably will have to sooner than later. Pah.

[Singer is Nachomamma]

@SiN: If you don't believe Slandaar is scum, does this mean you think dunhamganger-scum would choose to vote for his scumbuddy Conman rather than for town-Slandaar, who was at L-1?

Sure. The hammer is a hotseat vote and conman probably wasn't going to be long for this world, so it's not really stretching much to say that Dunham was more willing to get rid of conman than he was to form a post reasoning out a hammer and then defending himself for the townflip afterwards.

Why do you think looking at Conman's ISO would be particularly helpful? Honestly, his play was so erratic and unreliable that I don't know if there's anything positive to be gained from analyzing it.

Scum motivations are usually more cut and dry to read than town motivations. It's erratic, sure, but it definitely follows a pattern, and checking out where that pattern breaks down isn't exactly a bad thing to look at, don't you agree?

This is solely based on your ISO read of Conman, correct? If not, could you elaborate on those reads?

I will when I reread, yeah. Those reads are based on the conman ISO, but some coincide with previous reads.

[Gorgon]

.I also don't like qwints, SiN, or NS. SiN is the only one of those 3 not being completely worthless but I just feel something is off about his posts...

Btw, would you consider Dun's posts today to be worthwhile?

[Kthxbye]

Nope, those are pretty worthless as well.

[Dunhamganger]

Okay so. Realposting in this game will start in a day or so when I get settled into New York. V/LA for a few days until then.

[Slandaar]

VOTE: d3x

scum #2

Will post content when I have time

(V/LA till about the 30th)

[d3x]

Just waiting on content posting from Dun and Slandaar, then I'll dive in with some reads...

[d3x]

Content by qwints, mala, and NS would also be appreciated before my rundown.

[SaintKerrigan]

Essentially V/LA until after New Years, may be able to post but no promises.

[Malakittens]

Okies posted and caught up in a few of my other games. Time to move onto this game.

Can't say I'm not surprised at all regarding Huntress' flip as town, but shocked as hell to find out she was a Mason.
I personally rather not speculate regarding what type of 'role' killed her.

As for Fitz:
I can see him being killed because he was leading the wagon when Conman flipped even though he wasn't the original person to have lead it.

---

I been looking a lot at the VC analysis regarding Con's flip.

With it I'm ruling out that Kthxbye is scum because he's the original person who lead the wagon on Conman.

I also notice that the defense of Conman by Meph/D3x slot looks bad, but also the defense of Conman by SiN.

Meph's defense of Conman is in this post.
D3x's defense of Conman are in these posts: States Conman is a Policy Lynch (Located here.) Then switches to a Policy Lynch to a VI flip. (Located here) Also here.
SiN's defense of Conman. It's written all over the ISO. If you want me to post important links I will.

Thing is regarding SiN and Meph/D3x's defense is that it's pretty risky for scum-scum to do it. I'm not saying I'm ruling them out, but they aren't important to what I'm looking at right now.

I'm still looking at Slandaar for being scum, but I'm still looking at Absta-slot.

Though I'm still not sold on Slandaar being scum due to the counter-wagon. I mean there's WIFOM involved trying to speculate why they tried to build a counter-wagon on Slandaar.

As for the Absta-slot:

He told Conman to replace out because of the self-vote.
Calls Conman scum in this post after replying to Kthx, but doesn't vote him.
This post destroys what looks like a reaction test from NS.
Intent to hammer here after only calling Conman scum back in an earlier post.
Keeps calling Conman scummy, but lack of vote is apparent.
States he will vote Conman for a Policy Lynch. Where did the scumread on Conman go? (Located here)

Then we have the replacement of Absta who shadily hammers Conman after being pressured by SK. Doesn't give reads out.

----

I'm still looking at Qwints. I can see him busing Conman for town-cred because he sensed that the wagon was going to appear back later on. Located in this post.

Already stated that this post gave me a horrible reaction while reading it.
Reasons:
1. Why would scum-Coman put both his partners as "undecided". Yet when Conman leaves players out of his lists that doesn't seem to raise an eyebrow. Shown in this post. Which leads to me that he knows what Conman is going to flip and distance himself.

---

I'm going to:

Vote: Dun

---

So currently I'm looking at Qwints and Absta-slot as possible scum.
I think it's likely that Kthx is town.
The Meph/D3x's slot doesn't look good due to the defense nor does the SiN slot. Not really convinced of them being scum as of yet.

[Gorgon]

This post destroys what looks like a reaction test from NS.

That's not right; it was fitz who called out NS on that one. It's fairly obvious actually and I would like to know why you didn't spot that. I would also like to know why a move like that would be scummy.

[Malakittens]

Still doesnt matter. It was pretty fairy obvious what NS was going to do with the test anyways. I didn't spot it because I honestly missed it by Fitz. Fitz may have stopped it at first by saying you're voting Con, but Absta wanted to ask for an explanation.

Do you really want me to sit here and explain why town destroying traps is helpful?

Even if we leave out this one thing by Absta doesn't change the fact the slot has been pretty shady. Ill admit though at one point during Day 1 I was beginning to doubt my scum read on Absta, but the hammer along with the flip just made me think otherwise on that.

[qwints]

I'm convinced we'll find scum by analyzing the initial reactions to Conman's poor play. Here are player's first post after Conman's third post/vote. Note that NS, myself and Kthxbye had just pressured him for his idiotic second vote.

Spoiler: Initial Reactions

Well kthxbye you seem rather quick to try and take votes of yourself and try to blame other people but I guess I haven't been reading much because I have been at a lacrosse tournament and am really just spamming but you do seem to have a past history with this forum and with the points mentioned above...

UNVOTE

VOTE: kthxbye

Conman, are you brand new to this site?

[already voting Conman]Conman: please, by all means explain why you completely ignored the multiple posts about your comments on Slandaar and his "voting pattern" and also, what history with this forum do you refer to exactly? Last thing, if you could point out the specific "points mentioned above" that really led you to your vote on me, that would be great. Thanks in advance scum!

Okay, from the posting history this is Conman's first game on this forum unless he's used another account before - and I am definitely getting a huge newbie vibe from him.

That said, his last vote reads like a pretty scummy OMGUS vote, so he gets my vote for that. Truth to tell though, I often find it harder to read newbies than more seasoned players as they can be pretty erratic and don't confirm with norms of Mafia behavior - but a scumtell is a scumtell.
...
VOTE: TheConman17

VOTE: Conman for the irrational rationale around both his Slandaar AND Kthxbye votes.

VOTE: Conman

Yeah.

While Conman's posting so far has been pretty poor, I find nothing inherently scummy with it. I don't like the recent votes on him for VI play;

While Conman's posting so far has been pretty poor, I find nothing inherently scummy with it. I don't like the recent votes on him for VI play

It's not VI play, it's noob scum play. 3 votes in 3 posts - all on people who already have votes, none with good reasons.

UNVOTE: Kthxbye
VOTE: TheConman17

theaceofspades post 81 ignores the discussion.

Singer is Nachomamma post 87 ignores the discussion.

absta post 88 ignores the discussion.

unvote

Vote: Conman

Kill it with fire.

CONMAN IS TOWN GET THE FUCK OFF
GET THE FUCK OFF NOW

Conman, just replace out. You aren't helping by lynching yourself.

okay. Seriously. I don't know if I want to get rid of conman, or if I want him to be replaced. If he's just sore town then it's better to let him be replaced. But on the other hand.... if he's flailing scum it's better to lynch him (AHHHH BLINDING FLASH OF OBVIOUS) But I don't really see why he'd play like this if he was scum.... What do y'all think?

@Slandaar: Why huntress? I've seen you play and you don't seem to tend to the "monkies out of my ass" style of play so i'd like to hear your reasoning.

and you know what? Screw it

UNVOTE:

VOTE: conman

Meph [D3x] is the only one to speak out in the initial surge of votes.

Singer is the only one to proclaim a strong town read.

These two also stayed on the Slandaar wagon to the very end. I need to do some further reading, but at least one of those two is scum.

[Kthxbye]

Mala, are you saying

[Kthxbye]

Mala, are you saying absta/dun hammered conman and that its scummy they did so?

[Malakittens]

The hammer was shady. The replacement didn't even post any reads yet was pressured into hammering. Which basically means we don't know whether or not he had a scum read or a town read on Con before hammering. We had two other replacements before Dun and they supplied content, but we are allowing Dun to slide by why?

[Singer is Nachomamma]

These two also stayed on the Slandaar wagon to the very end. I need to do some further reading, but at least one of those two is scum.

Why, exactly?

Mala, are you saying absta/dun hammered conman and that its scummy they did so?

So as long as a hammer is on scum, it can't be scummy?

[qwints]

Because I don't see scum not trying to defend a scum PR at all.

[Kthxbye]

I hammered btw, not dun....its interesting that your trying to add it to others to make a case though.

[qwints]

Dun's vote put both wagons at L-1, right? Kthx switched to hammer while slandaar left his vote on D3X, I think.

[Kthxbye]

Because I don't see scum not trying to defend a scum PR at all.

I like this thought
UNVOTE:
VOTE: SiN
I'm actually convinced d3x is town for now

[d3x]

mala -

shocked as hell to find out she was a Mason.

That's an odd reaction. Why are you 'shocked as hell'? It's explicitly listed as a Normal acceptable Role.

D3x's defense of Conman are in these posts: States Conman is a Policy Lynch (Located here.) Then switches to a Policy Lynch to a VI flip.

Point of Order - These are the same thing. Lynching someone you deem to be a VI

is

a Policy Lynch. What else could it be? A fair number of people on the Wagon were saying he could be VI and it wouldn't hurt the Town if he did flip VI.

Though I'm still not sold on Slandaar being scum due to the counter-wagon. I mean there's WIFOM involved trying to speculate why they tried to build a counter-wagon on Slandaar.

Who specifically are you refering to by 'they'. The obv answer would be the people on the Wagon, but I'm curious for your thoughts. It doesn't sound like that's what you mean in this context.

[Malakittens]

I'm able to read Huntress more accurately than anyone else in this player list.
I'm shocked as hell because I wasn't seeing her as a Mason really or even a PR for that matter. >.>

---

I don't likely policy lynches at all, but the only time I'll do it if it's actually justified. To me being a VI and lynching a VI doesn't feel like a policy lynch to me.

---

Wonderful. I just stated that there's WIFOM involved in speculating about it yet you are asking me for information.

"They" as in Conman's scum partners tried to build a counter-wagon. I would think that some of Conman's partners were located on the Slandaar wagon.