Mini 1401 - Game over!

[AngryPidgeon]

Prodding Singer, Dunham, and Nobody

[Nobody Special]

Prod received. I just read the last 2.5 pages and 75% of it was noise.

Really, now.

I'm going to have to carefully reread SiN because I think the interactions there with Conman need to be examined.

[Singer is Nachomamma]

I'll post here tomorrow.

[Kthxbye]

Prod received. I just read the last 2.5 pages and 75% of it was noise.

Really, now.

I'm going to have to carefully reread SiN because I think the interactions there with Conman need to be examined.

Ignoring d3x's thoughts on slandaar/dun completely then? Ugh! Why is everyone so damned scummy?!

[SaintKerrigan]

Prod received. I just read the last 2.5 pages and 75% of it was noise.

Really, now.

I'm going to have to carefully reread SiN because I think the interactions there with Conman need to be examined.

Ignoring d3x's thoughts on slandaar/dun completely then? Ugh! Why is everyone so damned scummy?!

Why is that scummy? I've felt tempted to do the same myself because a lot of it is just reiterated shouting.

[Kthxbye]

SK: Cuz it's a solid case worth talking about maybe? Maybe if more than qwints, slandaar, and myself added their imput on it, it may work itself out? Maybe cuz we have no pressure on anyone and that case is just as good a place to start as any? Maybe because ignoring posts is scummy (at least imo it is). Also, why pop on just to say random crap (p679) and not really do anything other than say what's being done is 'noise'?

[SaintKerrigan]

SK: Cuz it's a solid case worth talking about maybe? Maybe if more than qwints, slandaar, and myself added their imput on it, it may work itself out? Maybe cuz we have no pressure on anyone and that case is just as good a place to start as any? Maybe because ignoring posts is scummy (at least imo it is). Also, why pop on just to say random crap (p679) and not really do anything other than say what's being done is 'noise'?

To answer the last question, I have a case on NS that I'm still waiting for him to comment on, not to mention that I've been talking about other stuff as well. The whole Slandaar-d3x debacle looks and feels like a town-on-town brawl to me, as I've stated more than once. I really don't want a repeat of yesterday, where the sole reason I voted for Conman was because he was too great a distraction to allow to live.

NS: GOT ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THE THINGS I SAID ABOUT YOU?

Apologies for the all-caps, but I want to be sure to get your attention.

[Nobody Special]

Vote: Nobody Special

His ISO is very thin. Not in quantity, but on quality.

He only voted for two people over the course of D1: fitz and Conman. The first fitz vote was RVS, and the second one was in response to SiN's midday case against fitz; the latter was explained merely by the words "I'm convinced", and the subsequent unvote wasn't even explained. Why did he unvote fitz after he claimed to be "convinced" by SiN, NS? I think he saw a chance to push someone other than Conman and took it.

Looking at his initial Conman vote, he essentially sheeped the policy-lynch crowd (if I am interpreting the phrase "kill it with fire" correctly). The one time he jumped off Conman was to vote fitz, but instead of getting back on Conman when he got off fitz, he stayed with an unvote. Why?

The answer is here, in case you missed it. (Hint: I was re-reading some stuff.)

While not voting, he begins pressuring Slandaar, but...to put it bluntly, it's a lame attempt at pressuring. Asking someone "Are you scum?" Call it serious or not, that's still hardly doing anything at all. And NS didn't keep following it, even though he claimed the question had meaning to it. How serious was he about this, then?

I didn't keep following it? Really?

And then Conman votes Slandaar, horrendously. And

now

NS decides to go back to voting him. Why not vote him after unvoting fitz?

See above. (I'll note that this is essentially the same question as above, just repeated to look like you're doing something. Don't be scummy; I know you're town, so.)

Next, a poor shot at me. Speaking of which,

If Conman does indeed flip scum, I'd be pretty convinced that SK just bussed the hell out of him.

NS, now that Conman has flipped scum, are you going to back this up with some content?

No; as I noted later, I no longer feel this.

But the kicker. After mildly pressuring Slandaar for a little bit, having not shown

any

reason to really be suspicious of Slandaar, he suddenly claims that he's ready to hammer him. Why? What exactly made Slandaar scummy enough to be willing to drop the hammer on him instead of staying on the Conman lynch?

Mostly the interaction between Slandaar and d3x.

[Nobody Special]

I no longer think SK was bussing Conman. I am certain that SK is town at this point.

...care to explain why you've changed your mind? Or why you suddenly think I'm town?

Not at this time.

[Gorgon]

SK: Cuz it's a solid case worth talking about maybe? Maybe if more than qwints, slandaar, and myself added their imput on it, it may work itself out? Maybe cuz we have no pressure on anyone and that case is just as good a place to start as any?

I did add some input to it at the end of #665 where I was defending its consistency against qwint's attack on it. Anyway, it won't do to have my vote inactive all day and I do find this case the most compelling one at the moment, so I will join the pressure on Slandaar.

VOTE: Slandaar.

Also, Mala is giving me a weird vibe. A careful and fair reading of qwint's ISO would have revealed that he explicitly backed off from the Conman/Mala/absta line of thought fairly quickly, so Mala was at best sloppy when she accused him of not following up on it.

Then there is this:

I'm really not entirely set that Slandaar is scum due to how the counter wagon appeared. I mean yes he can be scum, but it's a risky move to have two scum buddies on the blocking block like we had during Day 1.

You do know that it's mostly town that controls the wagons due to there being a bunch more townies than scum, right? Or what do you mean by these sentences exactly?

[Kthxbye]

NS: the way you say you "KNOW" sk is town makes my scumdar go crazy...

[Slandaar]

Pressured I am

[Malakittens]

I will admit that I may have prod-dodged with my last post or two. I have had a friend visiting over and she's leaving today before I go to work. My time will be free more now. >_>

[Nobody Special]

NS: the way you say you "KNOW" sk is town makes my scumdar go crazy...

I don't wish to fullclaim at this moment, but I got a result on him last night that makes me almost totally positive that he's town.

[Kthxbye]

It's early, we caught scum d1, so I'm willing to actually buy that for a day. Guess that means slandaar, dun, or SiN are good lynched for me today. I'm giving d3x benefit of the meta for now, I may need to consider my ability to read qwints as poor and I think mala town.

@all: let's concentrate on the 3 I listed above to lynch today. Betting at the very least we'll find one possibly both scum in the mix.

[qwints]

V/LA til Jan 8th

[d3x]

@all who think the Slandaar/d3x thing is just noise... please just ignore that portion of my posts. I have cases/connections to other players in the posts where we're arguing that I would like to see discussed as well.

Hell, I'd even like Slandaar to comment on them...

Second thought, I'd

really

like Slandaar to comment on them.

[Slandaar]

OK

Most flakes do that... :/ If you had bothered to check, meph SiteFlaked. There are a thousand reasons why someone does that. He made 9 posts on MafiaScum in total.

Lets set the record straight shall we Dex?

Meph flaked from his only game ie this one, to call it a site flake is beyond manipulative. He obviously knows this so;

Now we will look at what Dex says here;

I believe that absta tried to defend against the Wagon, but didn't want to come across as hardlined as SiN or Meph/myself and threw in the towel when he realized that his play was inconsistent, scummy, and would be looked at very closely after the ScumFlip.

This is basically what I was saying; Meph threw in the towel and why? because he realised Conman was doomed and he would look bad for defending him and not even seeing the very obvious case against him.

So, why does Dex think this;

Please continue pointing to this as a ScumTell. It's very becoming of your ScumHunting prowess...

(hes scum)

Plain and simple, I didn't believe he was Scum. There is no 'defending' something that doesn't need defending. I'm not ignoring anything. I came out in the 1st post of D2 and said it, I even said that I can see how others would find that scummy. What do you think I've been ignoring, exactly? If that's it, I'm not doing a very good job of ignoring something that I'm pointing out, huh?

OK here is the point for those who can't follow;
Dex is basically saying being a VI makes you immune from all scumtells.

Clearly is plain bad.

The rest of your post is Confirmation Bias. Of course I can call his play like it was D2, I know he was Scum now. Nothing in his play pointed Scum to me. If I didn't read the flip, I'd still think he was VI. I would've backed a Policy Lynch on him before MyLo, but that's it {unless he started acting scummy, imo}. The difference between where you Quoted me and my opinion of Conman is that I don't think you're a VI. Way to take that Quote out of context, btw...

Again Dex is saying 'he was VI he was VI'

Yes, so what? he was SI, what is the difference? why does VI allow one to make stuff up and just vote anyone with any case made on them?

@p644 - I now see why you spent the entirity of your interactions for 9 pages on that...

If you had checked you would know he was chasing me about it I really didn't care.

Now, what doesn't make sense exactly?

He clearly didn't understand my breakdown of Conman's play D1 was in relation to him and only reinforced my case against him.

OK Let me see here...

Everything you said was Conman did X; He voted me when I had votes he called me town when I stopped voting him aka Survival Mentality. How is this related to my alignment exactly Dex?

I clearly say; how is this related to my alignment ie I knew what he was saying ie Dex is basically just inventing things here or maybe he has selective memory one can never be sure.

I need to write out a proper case I think.

Gorgon feels slimy to me His posts just very manufactured. his story is; votes conman unvotes because 'oh noes L-1' then never rejoins and his dodging argument was beyond laughable I don't see town making it; 'he is dodging explaing why conman inventing reads is scummy!, he is dodging explaining why voting people with no reason is scummy! he is also dodging why avoiding questions is scummy!' nonsensical.

And he fits with Dex nicely one recent example;

It is clear when he started to call me town was because I wasn't voting him any longer ie buddying.

This is a bit of a weasley statement. In the post immediately before your UnVote, you called him out as part of the 3man Scum Team.

Explain how you believe he flipped your Vote b/c it was no longer OMGUS, plz {whch is what you are implying}.

I don't quite understand what you meant by the bolded part.

@all who think the Slandaar/d3x thing is just noise... please just ignore that portion of my posts. I have cases/connections to other players in the posts where we're arguing that I would like to see discussed as well.

Hell, I'd even like Slandaar to comment on them...

Second thought, I'd

really

like Slandaar to comment on them.

Good Answer

Dex ignored him asking the question which is suspect to say the least.

[SaintKerrigan]

For people arguing that Dun is scum:

Why would Dun lynch his partner when all he had to do was lurk and let the imminent deadline save his partner (or partners, if you want to drink the Slandaar-scum moonshine)? And to do it in such a visually-scummy way on top of all that? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[d3x]

@SK- Lurking to NL after you just replaced in is basically handing your own ass up on a silver platter. Especially when Conman wasn't long for the world and would've ended up Lynched anyway either by someone switching at the last minute, or in a following Day. Multiple people have said they would've Hammered, so how would he have 'saved' Conman, exactly?

How would it have looked in your proposed scenario- absta flipped out regarding the Conman Wagon & requested replacement, his replacement would've then lurked to deadline, and Conman would've still been Lynched flipping Scum? TerribadScum, that's how. This cannot be preferable to losing a Scum Partner, can it? He'd have lined himself up for a D1 noose just as easily as Claiming Scum.

Coming in and dropping a Vote on known Scum {since he's on the same Team} should've been all kinds of TownCred. The manner in which he did it however, is scummy. That and the points I've already made.

Speaking of, Dun has been posting since Thursday in a game he's Modding. Not even coming in to say he's reading or letting us know when he'll expect to make a post is quite weaksauce {especially considering his 'contributions' thus far}.

[d3x]

@Slandaar - I'll get to you when I'm good and ready. I don't feel like giving myself a headache tonight.

BTW- Why are you afraid to comment on my {or anyone else's} Dun read? You even quoted my request for your take on him. I just checked and the combination of letters "DUN" are no where to be found in your Iso. And what do you think of the overwhelming response for us to just accept each other as Scum and stop the Wall Wars?

[Singer is Nachomamma]

I guess that I'm still here waiting for Dun. Qwints still seems fairly scummy to me, but I'm not sure he fits on a scumteam with absta. I don't particularly think NS is scum, making Slandaar my functional third scumread, but I sort of doubt that he's scum. Need to do a bit rereading, but it'd be nice to form a stronger read before going back through things.

[Kthxbye]

Aaaaaamnnnmddddd

[Kthxbye]

VOTE: SiN

[Nobody Special]

This game needs more activity.

And a votecount.