Open Role 5: Switch Mafia. Over. - before 384

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I totally can't remember anything...

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I'm here. Can someone please post a summary of whatever happened? I can't remember a thing... but I vaguely think we've gotten past the random stage.

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Oh, and what's wrong with being distant from the bandwagon since the person we lynched wasn't scum? (I'm assuming you meant distant from the day 1 wagon, I can't remember if we were having another one.)

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Oops, sorry about that. (I seem to be apologizing every game... geez...)

Summary mainly for my own purpose: game started night 0. SK + 1 townie died, a bandwagon on Relyte, conflux hopped off, box and IH thinks he's scummy for doing that.

Well, bandwagons generally aren't good for town, but starting one early day 1 might get us some info depending on how the person reacts to the wagon on him. But I don't see anything wrong with conflux not wanting to push a wagon on someone without a strong reason. (I can't actually remember the reason, but I do remember it was early day 1 so the reason can't have been that strong.)

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In my opinion, nothing significant has happened. There's nothing wrong with putting 2 votes on someone early day, and there's nothing wrong with telling people not to quick-lynch. So back to square one.

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What significant things have happened?

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I've been getting this:

Here's my new error message:

phpBB : Critical Error

Could not connect to the database

Can someone whose in my other games please let them know? It's really sporadic... sometimes I can get in, sometimes I just can't.

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I'm finally back after a horribly long absence. I was having some weird problems on MS.net logging in and posting (I was posting from the future), read the 2 threads devoted to my problems in the help forum for details. Thanks to those who have alerted people to my problems. I'll respond to everything tomorrow.

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The line you quoted was in response to Conflux's question, so I'll clear them up together. Basically wagons are good in early day 1 to get discussion going. Bandwagons = bad in a small game because it's easy for mafia to hop on. (provided they're smart scum and give some kind of reason.) I know people who disagree with me have said that wagons give us info, but in a small game it may be too late for the info to be of use if we lynch the wrong people one time too many. But anyway, this is a discussion for the tactics thread, not here.

Also another discussion that isn't really in-game: Relyte's and IH's. I myself use quite a number of FOS when I think it's necessary. I like using FOSes because it makes it clear to everyone exactly where I stand. Therefore, I disagree with IH's attack on Relyte.

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I still maintain the opinion that IH is pushing an extremely weak case on Relyte. I agree with Post 79. I also don't think Romanus was right in saying Relyte is being over defensive. I read it as natural defensiveness to a weak attack.

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I buy the case for klebian.

vote: klebian

I honestly have no impression on Romanus at the moment. But lowell's case for him seems to be meta-gaming, and meta-gaming isn't always accurate. I'll go take a look.

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OMG. I meant to put a

FOS: klebian

Just to make it clear for the mod,

unvote whoever, vote IH

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My position on the battle is Romanus's position. That whole discussion should have gone into the strategy/tactics thread. The mistake with the thinking all mistakes are scummy bit is something that I've done myself before when I was cop, so I'm not taking that as a scum-tell.

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/in. Exams till Monday though.

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Hm... I'm back. I see we have gone nowhere. I'll will attempt to get it somewhere.

vote: Thok

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Sorry, was suffering from a post-exam hangover I think...

I like that 'IH was running around everywhere running like a mad man bit.' My vote stays.

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BA has been active elsewhere... weird. Hi Jules and Kelly!

I have a pretty high voting threshold, and other people like MBL have commented on it in many of my other games. I see FOSes as a nice tool to clearly show where I stand, ie, that I think a player has shown scumtells, and I generally vote only when I really want a lynch. I don't think I have enough scumtells and there hasn't been enough discussion to start pushing for a lynch.

I think your quotes are missing context. The first one happened in a squabble between IH and Relytye regarding how pages was the thread. IH was accusing Relyte of not posting much (I think.) The bizarre complaint was in response to IH accusing Relyte of wagoning. I think what is more noteworthy is the 3 =/= 7 bit.

Edit after preview: IH's case on Relyte now seems to hinge on the Relyte pushing IH for an answer bit. It's dinged on my scumdar, but I've seen townies do exactly the same thing.

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Back from camp, break-camp got delayed due to floods and rain.

1st quote: I did think nothing happened,

2nd quote: Why I defended relyte: because I disagreed with the attack on R. The attack was that R used too many FOSes instead of votes. My response was

I myself use quite a number of FOS when I think it's necessary. I like using FOSes because it makes it clear to everyone exactly where I stand.

ie, that I thought that there was nothing scummy about using many FOSes, so IH's attack falls.

3rd quote: Yes, jumping onto the wagon, but I voted because I agreed with the reasons other people voted for him. The mistake post and my correction was < 2 min apart.

4th quote: Discussion that any strat that scum would use more is probably WIFOM anyway + I didn't want this thread becoming a discussion on tactics, we should concentrate on finding scum in-game.

5th quote: I think there's some misunderstanding here. I was drunk/kidding when I voted for thok, who isn't in this game. The mod ignored it, leaving my original vote for IH in the VC. Then I added that my reason for voting was IH accusing everyone.

6th quote:
I read this, and... huh? Here's my view on everything: I think IH's attack on relyte was weak, I think squabbling about pages and votes VS FOSes doesn't really make sense. The only issue I have is Relyte skimming through and missing IH's post. That could possibly be an attempt to frame IH, but I don't think that's the case, simply because it'd been too easy for IH to point that out, which he did. So I think Relyte was telling the truth.

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Hi IH. I believe you've skipped my responses to the so-called case against me.

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Nope, that wasn't the first time I gave a reason. Here's the reason I gave:

I like that 'IH was running around everywhere running like a mad man bit.' My vote stays.

A little mix-up grammar yes, but I thought it was obvious.

Yup, I was defending Relyte, mainly because I don't think there was a strong case for him. I was hoping someone else hopefully scummy would have a stronger case. I'll have a look at the switching of defense bit, but I'm currently defending Relyte's lynch till I explicitly deny it (ie, everyone will know when I've changed my mind.)

I've stayed away from the entire Romanus issue, because like Kelly, I don't think he made a scum-tell. Just thought I'd clarify since I haven't addressed it at all.

KC: Who are the 'other people' you mentioned?

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Coincidentally I start half-school on 8th january. Half-school meaning I only have school 3 days a week.

I still don't see the case against Relyte, and I'd still like Kelly to clarify what she meant.

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Merry Christmas... if anyone's still around...

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I'm still here. I'm still happy with my vote.

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Back after a nation-wide internet disaster (10 min per page now, not 30).

Content coming soon.

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Changes to SL's list:

Shift IH to neutral.

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- for 'forgetting' his suspicions of me, and for 'forgetting' where his vote was.
- for his weak case of Relyte.

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I was going to mention that one, but at least IH did it first.

SL: metagaming doesn't work, especially for people like IH. I've seen him change his attitude in a couple of games. I've played with him a LOT and I still don't have a good grasp of his style.

We are now at 5 days from deadline.

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I'm extremely unhappy that we're close to deadline, and Relyte is the lynch leader. I've clearly explained that I think the case for him is weak.

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Shot multiple times... hm...

Here's SL's list for future reference

Neutral
Jules
Kelly Chen (replacing conflux)
klebian
Mr Stoofer
Romanus

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Hang on. I just realised that SL could have been switched off since we haven't managed to lynch scum.

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Sitting in a dark police station, Shadowlurker was trying his best to continue to look for scum, dispite the fact that the crooked town council had completly shut down all funding, taken away his police car, fired all the other police officers working, and and even all electricity and phone lines to the building. And yet he still had not given up. He was sitting there, trying to read people's police files by flashlight to figure out who was behind all of this, when someone apparently kicked in the door of the police office and

shot him in the chest multiple times.

It's in the death scene.

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Mod: Jules needs prodding, because he's disappeared in his other games.

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Yes, I meant night 0.

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Yes. We have 3 mafia, 1 sk, 2 townies and cop killed. We have 8 people alive. Mafia can turn off doc switch, so there'll definitely be a night kill tonight. No cop = no night information. Mafia can also turn off vig, so they won't get killed. That leaves 7 people alive tomorrow, with nothing. No lynch is not the play here.

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Stoofer: I think you're going about this the wrong way around. If I've gotten your post right, you're saying lowell is scummy for saving Relyte. In that case, shouldn't you be going after Relyte? Does your case rely on Relyte = scum, therefore lowell is scum for defending him?

Either lowell is crazy, or he's scum. Comment made in the light of 287 and 293.

I need to go take a look at what IH was saying, since I was so sold on IH's 'scummy-looking' attacks on Relyte.

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Mod: Can I request a replacement for Jules? He's been replaced in his other games.

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Second the request for a VC.

Lowell. I 'hate your last post. Hate it hate it hate it' (just kidding about the hate, but I dislike the post.) I feel that CDB made valid points in his post. What 'sweeping blame' are you talking about? CDB concentrated mainly on his top 2 suspects (from his scumdar). It sounds as though because you can't defend against it, your calling it a gut thing.

I also don't like your lurking scum bit. CDB just replaced in. Don't you think getting his input is valuable?

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Hm... I made a mistake with my last bit. I misunderstood and thought that lowell accused CDB of being a lurker, and now I reread it more carefully and realised he was accusing CDB of trying to appear like he's having opinions when he's having none. That's a contradiction to the part where you accuse CDB of implcating you, which => he had an opinion.

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Sigh. Why not?

vote: lowell

I didn't want to put lowell at lynch -2, since scum could easily hop on and quick-lynch. However, in the light of lowell's responses, I think we have our scum. The only thing lowell can say in his defense is to be careful, and that he hasn't played well? Bah.

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People did not vote for you because they were being nice and giving you a chance to respond.

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Yipee! I must say this was an unbalanced setup though (with my budding experience in reading setups.) Basically, if we had left the SK alive it would have been different. But town leaving the SK alive = bad for town. Weird.

I almost revealed myself with that vote, I was hoping someone would hammer. KC was doing a good job of distancing herself, even if I'd gotten myself killed, it wouldn't have been that bad a loss. Stoofer I'm not so sure, I must say I'd have lynched lowell if I was town, thinking lowell was scummy.

I seem to win way more often when I'm scum... wonder why.

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There's some discussion going on in the open nomination thread.