Khan's Wacky Xylbot Mafia (Mini 1418) - Game Over

[Voidedmafia]

Trying to clarify what zang was saying doesn't even come close to matching any definition of sheeping. I wasn't that suspicious of you at the time, anyways.

You weren't sheeping votes, you were sheeping thoughts.

Plus, between the two of us i was the first to raise suspicions about the contradiction. Yes, it was while you and zabg were voing at it, but i was th first to point it out. 0/2.

No, your addition to the conversation was nothing more than your confirming what Zang had already said. 2/2

Yes, i agreed with zang that he wasn't misrepping you. Agreeing=\=sheeping all the time. It's not like I dyumbly went "yeah, zang's right!" I gave my own thoughts on the matter and posedthe problem in my own way. That's not sheeping him, either. 1/2.

And fine, i suppose you're right there. Still 1/2.

[Voidedmafia]

Hmm, what motivation does any pro-town role (or at least anti-scum) have to claim such a nonexistant role?

(Hint: not a nonzero number)

100%. It was obviously a fake claim that included a clue leading to my breadcrumb.

You mean in 376? I see a fakeclaim, but no crumbs. Unless the juggernaut part is supposed to reference the doc claim.

[MrObvious]

In fact, I'm not even going to wait for L-1. I'm just going to claim and

I'm not going to point out my breadcrumb because I doubt anyone feels like digging back through my crap to see what is missing

.

I'm a 5 shot Mafia Juggernaut.

I italicized the clue for you. It's basically the same clue I gave leafs personally.

Dig back through my crap, leaf. Look for what is missing.

[MrObvious]

Now iso me and search for "crap" and it should make perfect sense.

[MrObvious]

Crap! was the identifier if you haven't pieced that together yet.

[Katsuki]

So it seems whenever I've been trying to open up ms, page is either broken or eaten by tigers.

I'll get to reading through my games once site fixed?

[wind-up]

So it seems whenever I've been trying to open up ms, page is either broken or eaten by tigers.

I know, right?

[Kublai Khan]

<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || VOTE COUNT (7 to lynch) |||

<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || MrObvious - 4 (Luckyjt Voidedmafia Zang Leafsnail) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || xRECKONERx - 1 (scooby) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || Kthxbye - 3 (Shmugen Katsuki shos) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || Katsuki - 1 (xRECKONERx) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || The_Mini-Librarian - 2 (wind-up MrObvious) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || Zang - 1 (Kthxbye) |||

Mod, please replace me. Some stressful stuff has come up in my life and I just can't handle this game.

Searching...

Deadline: Suspended

[wind-up]

Doesn't it? If Katsuki is anti-town as both town and scum, how is acting anti-town not a null tell for him?

I never said it was. I'm saying that it's scummy to use meta to justify it.

Well... it's not. DX

Yes.

Then is there a reason why my read on katsuki is the only thing that you are responding to from the rest of the game? Do you have any reads?

Other than this discussion with me, it doesn't really seem like you are doing anything.

This discussion is taking up too much time. I was responding to your read on Katsuki because it was -- is -- poorly justified, and that seemed at odds with your manner, so I decided to press the issue and try and deduce whether your read arose from maliciousness or ignorance (for want of a better word). Whilst your obstinacy and lack of emotiveness make that hard to judge, I do think you're scummy for 'not accepting' laziness as an excuse for anti-town behaviour, and for saying 'defending yourself is not scumhunting'.

I do have other reads, I'll get to them soon.

Why, exactly?

There is no pro-town motivation for being lazy and it is used too often as an excuse for anti-town behavior, especially by scum.

No pro-town motivation doesn't mean town don't do it. And the claim "laziness is used too often as an excuse for anti-town behaviour" needs to be addressed on a case-by-case basis, considering it's a playstyle issue and saying "especially by scum" doesn't cut it.

Ah, that clarifies things. How could Katsuki have defended against #134 in a pro-town way, then (as opposed to his defence in #136)? Can you give an example?

As I already stated, Katsuki could have explained how his previous posts were town motivated or instead, he could have asked for leafsnail to explain his case more so that he could address the specific issues that leafsnail had against him.

I think it's up to Leafsnail to explain how Katsuki's previous posts were scum motivated, but I concede that asking Leafsnail to elaborate would be a good idea.

Then I think it's unreasonable that you criticised Katsuki as you did in my second quote of #331.

I didn't quote you at all in that post but I don't find anything that I said in that post to be unreasonable.

Apologies. That post number should be #351.

[wind-up]

Do you have any reads?

I think both MrObvious and xRECKONERx are pretty town, mainly due to the circumstances around their claim. Reck's because Reincarnator is an explicitly town role; so he can't be scum if he is a Reincarnator; so he can only be scum if he's fakeclaiming Reincarnator, and I don't think that's likely for two reasons: firstly, I have a gut feeling that the self-voting fracas came from town; secondly, Reincarnator is a risky claim for scum firstly because there's no towncred to be gained from outright claiming it and indeed it could be considered a bad idea to claim it given that it opens you up to kills from other scumteams (if there's more than one, which Katsuki's testsetups show is likely). MrObvious' claim I also think is likely town, but this is a lot more gut based: basically, he sounds sincerely frustrated and the breadcrumbing seems way too convoluted to come from scum.

The board is crashing too frequently at the moment for me to work productively so I'll come back to my reads on other players once it clears up a little.

[shos]

now...do you understand what a p.edit means?

Thr part before it is.why.

So you are blatantly misrepping me by ignoring the p.edit and focusing on the part that I wrote (and could have easily deleted) when I still thought MO was lying about the doc claim.

no.

my point is this:
in no situation, like - at all - should a townie self hammer; and you not only told him to self hammer, but you even added that even if he IS the doc you don't believe him and he should do it. you LITERALLY SAID that our doc should self hammer. who cares if you unvoted in the pedit?? who cares??? a townie must be like, PMyst-bad to even type what you had typed before.

Barring a super awesome explanation for my stupid self to 'see the light' and totally believe you,

you played in a way that even if you are telling the truth about town doc, I don't trust you and you need to die.

If you're actually town, best you can do (again, barring some super awesome explanation) is to self hammer to reduce the number of suspects on your wagon

. You flip town doc, then we have 1 less suspect to look at on your wagon.

So, if you can't make it super clear and obvious that you are telling the truth about town doc, go ahead and off yourself.

p.edit: hmmm...well shit, I can actually see that and it's a pretty darn good breadcrumb. FML Obvious, why the theatrics for the past few pages???

!unvote

made it clearer for you to see.

[The Mini-Librarian]

!vote kthnxbye

[Kthxbye]

Shos, you make me laugh. If you can't see a benefit to town for a townie to self vote when they are going to be the lynch, then you are beyond help in explaining something logical.

Nice vote TML, care to....you know...explain why and stuff???

[Voidedmafia]

my point is this:
in no situation, like - at all - should a townie self hammer; and you not only told him to self hammer, but you even added that even if he IS the doc you don't believe him and he should do it. you LITERALLY SAID that our doc should self hammer. who cares if you unvoted in the pedit?? who cares??? a townie must be like, PMyst-bad to even type what you had typed before.

I think the main point behind kthnx's posts at the time was that the doc claim did not sound very believable at all, hence why he wasn't caring about whether Obv lived or not. As seen with the p-edit, the breadcrumb being revealed changed his mind.

THis is also why I feel like this attack on kthnx seems a bit silly.

[shos]

See end of last post. "Even if you are town" selfhammer. Before he saw the crumb.

Besy thing to do is selfhammer as town? Really! How bout asking for an explanation on the crumb?

The pedit is irrelevant. We see a scum-only way of thinking.

[Kthxbye]

you're an idiot.

I guess I will spell out the logic for you.

town (L-1): px, py, pz, pq, ps, pt

If player self hammers, that's 6 people to go through for wagon analysis vice 7. If you are going to be the lynch of the day AND you look scummy as hell, self hammer is good for town. That's all I was saying. Had nothing to do with the doc claim I didn't believe.

[Voidedmafia]

See end of last post. "Even if you are town" selfhammer. Before he saw the crumb.

That's...kinda my point. He seemed to have little reason to want to believe Obv's doc claim was real (or at least as real as the mafia juggernaut claim), hence why (to me) he thinks that Obv should just be killed anyways because none of his actions or seeming thought process looks like its coming from town.

Besy thing to do is selfhammer as town? Really! How bout asking for an explanation on the crumb?

So, if you can't make it super clear and obvious that you are telling the truth about town doc,

go ahead and off yourself.

*coughcough*

That answer's in the same part you enlarged so nicely for us.

The pedit is irrelevant. We see a scum-only way of thinking.

And now you've got the same blinders on as Scooby (who I'm not really going to follow anyways, but that IS irrelevant here).

the p-edit is very relevant toward understanding kthnx's thought process.

(also, I agree with the "even if you're telling the truth about being a doc, you've still played horribly" part of 409. Regardless of the truth or falsity of the doc claim, I honestly cannot look at the last couple pages of Obv's posting and tell you that it all looks town-motivated.)

[Voidedmafia]

If player self hammers, that's 6 people to go through for wagon analysis vice 7. If you are going to be the lynch of the day AND you look scummy as hell, self hammer is good for town. That's all I was saying. Had nothing to do with the doc claim I didn't believe.

Doesn't the parenthesis'd part indicate the doc claim was still relevant, though?

[Kthxbye]

Meh, sorta. I was mostly trying to push him over the edge as I thought him raging scum.

[The Mini-Librarian]

@kthnx: Out of the current wagons I think you have the greatest chance of flipping scum (barring Mr. Obv. who I'm not lynching.) We really need to consider consildating our wagons here.

[Kthxbye]

I have the greatest chance at flipping scum because......?

[Kthxbye]

Youre right though, we should consolidate. Seeing as I'm the only one on Zang, I'll....

!vote TML

[Leafsnail]

Actually I was thinking very clearly. In my obvious fake Mafia Juggernaut claim, I included a clue how to find my breadcrumb. I was hoping a townie or two on my wagon would pick up on it and remove their vote without revealing my true role to scum.

This is absolutely horrible play, never ever ever ever

EVER

do it again. I wouldn't have put you to L-1 if you didn't claim scum, so all you did was force yourself to claim.

There's no way to give a message specifically to town. If it's possible for a townie to decode your message (it wasn't because it just looked like a couple of typos) then it's also possible for the mafia. Being mafia doesn't suddenly make you less able to crack codes.

After reconsidering I think I can just about see the town motivation behind it now though, even if it was really awful

!vote: TML

@kthnx: Out of the current wagons I think you have the greatest chance of flipping scum (barring Mr. Obv. who I'm not lynching.) We really need to consider consildating our wagons here.

Are you saying you think MrObvious has the greatest chance of not flipping?

[Leafsnail]

EBWOP: "flipping scum?"

[Kublai Khan]

Serrapaladin replaces reck.

Deadline will be announced as soon as i get home from work.