NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

[penguin_alien]

If IAI is town and AD is caught scum, case closed obviously. But let's say IAI is scum. Isn't there a decent shot he's giving us a scum buddy to optimize the team's chances? If we lynch AD and he's scum we believe IAI for most of the game. If we go with IAI as scum, we write AD off as another attempt from IAI to set up a townie and he slides through.

VOTE: ActionDan

[ActionDan]

If IAI is town and AD is caught scum, case closed obviously. But let's say IAI is scum. Isn't there a decent shot he's giving us a scum buddy to optimize the team's chances? If we lynch AD and he's scum we believe IAI for most of the game. If we go with IAI as scum, we write AD off as another attempt from IAI to set up a townie and he slides through.

VOTE: ActionDan

welp lost my post.

but shortly

1)

What are you trying to say? Are you trying to optimize the lynch in case we are both scum by justifying that if IaI is lynched I'd slip through the cracks from the town cred?

2)

Do you realize that If IaI guiltied a buddy that in the case I was lynched be facing the question of why he was alive the next day. And he'd probably get lynched eventually for it.

3)

Don't you understand that getting the correct lynch and saving a day is more important. Optimizing the lynch is what was tacitly done yesterday when the town voted MattP.

Do you not have an opinion on me Vs. IaI? If so, why did you not feel like including it when voting?

[Majiffy]

[ActionDan]

If we lynch AD and he's scum we believe IAI for most of the game. If we go with IAI as scum, we write AD off as another attempt from IAI to set up a townie and he slides through.

VOTE: ActionDan

In fact this sentence makes NO distinction between either of us even if we are talking simply about utility. How did you get that vote there.

[penguin_alien]

I'm more inclined to believe IAI with his not being CC'd and his crumb over your posting. It's not awful, but it's not towny enough to make me back you over IAI. And yes, I get that we need a good lynch today...as opposed to other days? And yes, scum-IAI might get lynched eventually, but with conf-town to kill at night, it's conceivable that scum would leave a shady PR around in favor of other kills, especially if they only need 1-2 more mislynches.

[penguin_alien]

I addressed the difference in the first part, where if IAI is town you're scum.

[Aj The Epic]

My question is, how many more mislynches can we afford? My mental clock says none, even though I don't know the amount left, but we've lost a ton of town to very few scum so far.

[Aj The Epic]

So 12 alive. 1 scum dead, 8 town. Highly inefficient at this point, but not yet in danger. I personally don't see space for a cop in this game currently, which makes me think that IaI is gambiting the fuck out of his claim at this point, which we basically agreed to tear apart. Can someone explain to me how IaI was framed on Matt but not AD?

[Vifam]

He probably wasn't??? AD is fucking scum dude

[Aj The Epic]

Doesn't add up: Guilty on Matt, which is a frame or scum IaI
Guilty on AD... and it's not a frame?

[Vifam]

God damm it

[Majiffy]

Somebody is paying even less attention than me, apparently.

[ActionDan]

Doesn't add up: Guilty on Matt, which is a frame or scum IaI
Guilty on AD... and it's not a frame?

a) It's a frame if me and IaI are both town.

b) It's not if IaI is town and I'm scum.

c) It's a fake guilty if IaI.

Chance of a) is absurdly small.

IaI is fake-claiming (again) here but Vifam would have you believe otherwise.

Of course Vifam is scum spouting "AD is fucking scum dude" to try to antagonize you (and whoever will listen) into voting me. Even though the strength of that statement has no backing what-so-ever besides "AD isn't particulary town since D1 ended so w/e"

I mean if I was town D1, that doesn't change my alignment later on. Not acting town in Vifam's mind = lurking. Which is a stance that's full of shit.

If you read Vifam's posts today it's all about throwing endlessly and endlessly the idea that there was a framer on MattP, and none on me all the while supposes IaI is truely a cop without in the least bit thinking that that might not be the case.

[ActionDan]

I'm more inclined to believe IAI with his not being CC'd and his crumb over your posting. It's not awful, but it's not towny enough to make me back you over IAI.

Why do you think the way you do.

Give my an opinion that you can back up instead of this.

not being CC'd and a crumb should NOT be creditted. the cop claim happened in response to Matt's fake-claim. It might have been snapped, but it was a mandatory action since IaI believed Matt was telling the truth.

The cop crumb is one that I have done before as scum in case I was ever caught. Here's the snippet from a shrinemaiden game so you guys can see the form:

Let me ask, are you convinced Shadoweh is 100% scum?

Continuing onwards presently...

Oh, cut by Schezo. To be honest the issue sorta subsided.

found it yet? I was scum that game. It's a tactic scum set-up in case they need it. Town cops don't usually crumb their role in case scum find the crumb.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh god, so much to read.

[AngryPidgeon]

Lets not QL again, thanks.

[ActionDan]

Framer / Busdriver / Whatever, they're has to be SOME type of counter to all the PR's town has All Goons + JK makes no fucking sense. Framer would be a more direct counter to cop, but a busdriver seems more helpful to the scumteam from what I'm hearing. I don't see how ActionDan isn't the optimal lynch for today since IAI JUST being scum doesn't add up well

this this this this thsi thsi...

I want to touch on this again.

Besides the gratuitous "IaI JUST being scum doesn't add up well" said for no fucking reason other than to seduce votes onto me and to play into fail set-up spec, the reality of the what you can expect for balance is quite different.

in a 13 p game you've got about 3 scum on average. A town PR roster of vig/cop/BG is reasonable where scum has a medium strength team, which will probably be on the order of GF/rolecop/goon, possibly featuring substituitions of roleblockers or other information gathering roles like scum watchers/trackers in place of rolecop. Still featuring around one goon. This is a balanced setup

to get from 13 ---> 21 add 6 town and 2 scum to approximately maintain the 3:10 rate. But in this setup 4 of those 6 town added are confirmed town by either being masons or an IC. Suddenly game is no longer balanced but swings in the favor of town. And adding a framer to scum just won't cut it. Because A) chance of cop hitting frame target is very very low so it's not a super effective counter and B) even if it hits there is a 4/20 chance of hitting a mason, IC anyway, and it's rendered even less effective.

The remedy is taking out the cop role and realizing that 3 masons + IC > power of the cop anyway.

[TheReverend]

VOTE: IAI

Not buying it.

[I Am Innocent]

I haven't been in the game since D1. I got back to school and had shit tons of work to do. I was in 5 games at the time and wasn't contributing much across the board. Didn't vote D2 because I didn't feel like it. I'd have voted MattP Zab or JS but didn't really feel confident so I didn't vote. At the end though after Nacho quoted AA's no lynch post I might have voted it. assumed AA9 was noob before so I thought her reading the thread showed townie effort. Saw no-lynch was like, ok. maybe not.

But yet in 2405, the post after you acknowledged the Nacho quoting AA no lynch, you said "...there's a lot of excitement with the claims but just take it a bit slow for now please. I don't want to rush this day. ty."

Interesting to note in 2305 the vote count had AA9 at 4 votes already and tied for the longest wagon. Losing the Roleblocker with a claim cop, no good right?

Who's an easy target? Maybe it was the guy who's not been active and called AA9 town D2?

Well first of all, you called her town

D1

from what I can tell. And please don't insinuate you were an easy target, by my count, D2 & D3 had 140 total votes cast, only 1 of which ended up on you. So don't go there.

The scum motivation is in claiming to target Matt. Why would a cop target the guy who himself wanted to be targetted.

The second sentence makes it a bold, but smart move then, to be scum and asked to be investigated, right? Would bold correctly describe Matt? WIFOM is what it is called, and hence why I disregarded Matt's request in the final decision to who to investigate.

I already expressed why I targeted Matt. I let Pirate have alot of say, and actually I agreed with her as Matt's play got steadily worse D3.

As for mollie, you didn't talk about her at all one way or the other. And didn't crumb the result at all before the claim.

If I had concern about being NK'd, I would have crumbed it yes. But with Matt pushing me, I thought 1) if Matt was town, scum would allow this conflict to go on so we'd be left alone and 2) if Matt was scum, a NK of me would have put pressure on him the following day, so that wasn't likely either.

[I Am Innocent]

sorry I'm really mad right now and I didn't finish my read-through. there's a lot of excitement with the claims but just take it a bit slow for now please. I don't want to rush this day. ty.

Yeah, looks like AA9 hit 7 votes right before this post by Dan D2.

[UberNinja]

VC plz

[Maestro]

VoteCount #5.01

I Am Innocent -

3

^L-4

borkjerfkin, ActionDan, TheReverend
ActionDan -

6

^L-1

I Am Innocent, Vifam, UberNinja, Majiffy, Lord Mhork, penguin_alien

With 12 alive it takes 7 to Lynch.

Not Voting:

Majiffy, AngryPidgeon, Aj the Epic, pirate mollie

Deadline / Bankable Time:

(expired on 2013-03-06 16:32:00)[/mech]

[TheReverend]

VoteCount #5.01

I Am Innocent -

3

^L-4

borkjerfkin, ActionDan, TheReverend
ActionDan -

6

^L-1

I Am Innocent, Vifam, UberNinja, Majiffy, Lord Mhork, penguin_alien

With 12 alive it takes 7 to Lynch.

Not Voting:

Majiffy, AngryPidgeon, Aj the Epic, pirate mollie

Deadline / Bankable Time:

(expired on 2013-03-06 16:32:00)[/mech]

Haha quoted before you edit it into a VC

Anyway, I had this weird dream last night. Basically there was this bent cop, a giant pigeon, a penguin with a machine gun and some smirking black girl with a crown, and they were going round killing everyone, avenging the death of this pretty Indian girl who talked in broken English. I think it means something but I can't quite put my finger on it. Any of you people studied Freud or Jung?

[TheReverend]

Pfft

[Lord Mhork]

Hehehe... That actually made me laugh, rev.