Mini 1426 - Hell's Bottom

[Human Destroyer]

Alright I'm going to come out with this right now since I think I might die tonight, I need some advice, and it will boost discussion.

I'm a 1-shot day vig. I can kill one player one time during the day.
I don't know who to use it on but I plan on using it today.

Any thoughts?

Shoot jeromus
Get scumflip
Lynch YOLO

[10506670]

So everything was going fine in the middle of the day, when suddenly

Boom! Jeromus slides backwards into the cheap plastic chair he was comfortably sitting in. His eyes roll towards the back of his head, and his mouth relaxes as it opens to form an appalling gape. The blood trickles down his forehead as the residents of the jail cell look in absolute shock.

Jeromus, Vanilla Townie, has been killed Day 2.

[Desperado]

That's extremely disappointing.

[Elyse]

Damn it

[Human Destroyer]

...awkward

Well that's one possible scumteam eliminated.

[Elyse]

I have a really bad feeling that the most town players (RBD, Desperado, Bub) are scum.

[Desperado]

All three of us or just a combination or what? That's a pretty vague accusation.

[YOLO]

At least that pretty much confirms Elyse-Town.

Votecount 1.15.0

ArcAngel9

LYNCH

(7): Rainbowdash, YOLO, qwints, Keybladewielder, Desperado, Elyse, Human Destroyer

Elyse

(2): jeromus, Mr. Flay

Rainbowdash

(1): ArcAngel9
Not voting (2): Blue Yoshi, Bub Bidderskins

Votecount 2.4.0

jeromus

L-2

(4): qwints, Desperado, Human Destroyer, Keybladewielder

Human Destroyer

(1): Elyse

qwints

(1): Bub Bidderskins

Keybladewielder

(1): Mr. Flay

YOLO

(1): Rainbowdash
Not voting (2): YOLO, jeromus

What we see here is that all the players supporting a Jeromus lynch were part of the ArcAngel lynch as well. I feel there's a very good chance at least one scum is hiding among them, possibly more. Out of those four, quints definitely looks the worst. Desperado and Human Destroyer have been posting decent content, while KBW still reads (Village) Idiot. Quints on the other hand does not help this game further at all. His play amounts to agreeing with other players and joining popular wagons. What's also interesting is that he criticizes other players for not giving reads, while he himself barely gives reads at all. After the first few pages of the game, all he has said about reads is that Elyse is town and ArcAngel/Jeromus seem scummy. So all we know about Quints's thoughts currently is that he thinks Elyse is town.

Vote: Quints

[Elyse]

All three of us or just a combination or what? That's a pretty vague accusation.

At least one of the three.

I know it's vague. I have no proof. It's just a sinking feeling.

[Rainbowdash]

Desp is actually probably scum, he is scum if KBW is scum. Gut is actually gaining some brain confidence here. Flay sorta scummy too, if YOLO is scum he dies immediately for his comment right after my YOLO vote.

Vote KBW

For the time being as I work stuff out. The D2 wagon on jeromus is just so ugly in light of the flip from him. Really as I said the lack of wanting to get on AA was a towntell only in part shot down by the bizzare kill.

But really, two pairings to watch ultra close for here are Desp-KWB and Flay-YOLO. quints probably rounds out the "good lynches" group. Im happy calling HD and BB town for now.

[Human Destroyer]

I'm looking at Blue Yoshi's ISO, and I think the goal of the kill was to either frame jeromus or to give up as little information as possible.

Seriously, everyone except jeromus was null or town in BY's reads. That's a pain in the ass.

[Desperado]

Desp is actually probably scum, he is scum if KBW is scum. Gut is actually gaining some brain confidence here. Flay sorta scummy too, if YOLO is scum he dies immediately for his comment right after my YOLO vote.

Vote KBW

For the time being as I work stuff out. The D2 wagon on jeromus is just so ugly in light of the flip from him. Really as I said the lack of wanting to get on AA was a towntell only in part shot down by the bizzare kill.

But really, two pairings to watch ultra close for here are Desp-KWB and Flay-YOLO. quints probably rounds out the "good lynches" group. Im happy calling HD and BB town for now.

I've been reading all of your posts today, and there are clearly a lot of machinations going on behind what you write, but I'm just not getting it. How am I scum if KBW is scum? Why are our alignments tethered at all? You've been lightly pushing me as scum all day even though you admitted early on that you can't find the reasons and thus far haven't provided any.

And I didn't see you, or anyone else for that matter, defending the Jeromus wagon today and suggesting that he not get shot, so how does his flip make the wagon look ugly? I didn't see anyone come out against Jeromusscum in any meaningful way, so the blood is on all of our hands.

[qwints]

RBD, how does the Jeromus flip affect your YOLO scum read?

[Rainbowdash]

RBD, how does the Jeromus flip affect your YOLO scum read?

Not much, but something setup wise im speculating on makes me a little less sure of it. If this setup is what im almost positive it is, YOLO actually has a high chance of being town due to mod oversight.

KBW over the last few pages has gone from null-town VI to scum though. I really dont believe he has played the entire game day without knowing who died when he responded to Flay saying he was scum because of BY dying.

@Desp - You basically ignored the entire KBW stuff early, and the lategame stuff except for a joking shrug off of it. When you go overboard on commenting on other VI-type players it sticks out as newer scum who is competent just not knowing how to deal with a VI partner. Also KBW in return ignores you.

I also did defend jeromus yesterday given how he stayed off a counterwagon I lobbed to him, and if it wasnt for the fact that BY died pointing to some underlying scum motivation, would have never let him get to where he was today. I still think you are a really good pick for scum though, especially as your response to me saying I disliked the wagon on him was "its everyponys fault".

[jeromus]

This game is the worst. You guys stink like crazy.

I mean OHHHH I'M A GHOOOOOOOOST.

Right.

[10506670]

Deadline: 4/4/2013, 10:00pm PST

Votecount 2.5.0

qwints

(2): Bub Bidderskins, YOLO

Keybladewielder

(2): Mr. Flay, Rainbowdash

Human Destroyer

(1): Elyse
Not voting (4): qwints, Desperado, Human Destroyer, Keybladewielder

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

[Human Destroyer]

Desp is actually probably scum, he is scum if KBW is scum. Gut is actually gaining some brain confidence here. Flay sorta scummy too, if YOLO is scum he dies immediately for his comment right after my YOLO vote.

Vote KBW

For the time being as I work stuff out. The D2 wagon on jeromus is just so ugly in light of the flip from him. Really as I said the lack of wanting to get on AA was a towntell only in part shot down by the bizzare kill.

But really, two pairings to watch ultra close for here are Desp-KWB and Flay-YOLO. quints probably rounds out the "good lynches" group. Im happy calling HD and BB town for now.

Could you explain these pairings a little more? I get Flay-YOLO, but why Desp-KBW?

[qwints]

Blue Yoshi's other scum read:

I don't know if I'm the only one who is seeing this, but Key seems really anxious to pull this lynch through. To the point where it doesn't seem like horrible noobishness with a touch of VI. It legitimately seems scummy.

Spoiler: KBW's impossibly short memory

Flay, why are you voting me?

KBW, last page:

Looking at Blue Yoshi's ISO, I'm not seeing any Power Role tells to speak of, and he really only seems to strongly suspect two people: KBW and jeromus. Of the two I can only see KBW killing him for it. Pair that with the lack of posting today so far (while being active on the site),and you end up with VOTE: Keybladewielder.

RBD doesn't your YOLOvote require jeromus to be scumbuddies with him, though? I'm not following but it may be the lack of commas. Also I don't like the company being kept on the jeromuswagon.

Hold it. How does that equal a scumtell. A) I had nothing to say. B) Wouldn't I I've killed him then if what you say is true?

Who died last night? I didn't check. I didn't shoot anyone, Flay.

In fact your pushing this makes me think you are the shooter.

VOTE: Keybladewielder

[Desperado]

"You basically ignored the entire KBW stuff early"

[quote="In post 77If you have a problem with policy-style lynches and that's what you were referring to given YOLO's response then I understand, because at this point that's the only justification for a KBW lynch. Frankly, I'm suspicious of anyone that's voting him right now (oh hey look Flay just voted him with flimsy/policy laden language. This is my surprised face ). What I don't get is the first vote on KBW. How do you explain that?

As for the bolded

(Bub saying KBW is giving him a VI vibe)

, pretty much. Which is why we shouldn't really even be considering voting KBW today. Policy lynching is not a successful strategy.[/quote]

Well it didn't make any sense for you to vote KBW yourself, and then vote someone for also expressing suspicion on him. My assumption was that you were faking your FOS on KBW in order to coax scum into sheeping you (which you might have done anyway).

Your actual explanation is disappointing. How on earth was he rolefishing? KBW claimed VT on his own. Regardless of your level of experience re: how townies and scum react to a roleclaim, what YOLO did wasn't fishing. That's why I was confused.

So what, we have a competition for who can actually be the village idiot? Is it Flay or is it KBW?

Several people have independently suspected Flay based on legitimate arguments. Bubs in #6, myself in #24, Angel in #44, YOLO in #76, KBW in #78, and yourself in #81. That's half the participants all calling YOLO out for scummy play within the first 90 posts. At what point does he go from potential VI to plain-old scum?

I thought my opinion on KBW early was pretty clear; he was the village idiot and policy lynching him for it was the only justification for a vote on him. How much more would I have had to have said on the subject to not "ignore" it?

"and the late game stuff except for a joking shrug of it"

I assume you mean what's happened in the last two pages? I openly stated "is this KBW's way of asking to be shot," implying that I believed he might be scum, for the very same series of posts that you and qwints are now voting him. So how does this mean I'm scum with KBW again?

"When you go overboard on commenting on other VI-type players it sticks out as newer scum who is competent just not knowing how to deal with a VI partner."

Are you referring to #90? In which I was questioning someone else who classified Flay as VI-type play when I was pushing his wagon? I don't see anywhere else where I "go overboard" with talking about VIs.

"KBW in turn ignores you"

He directly responds to me in #s 90/91 and 255/256, the only two times I actually address him personally.

"I also did defend jeromus yesterday given how he stayed off a counterwagon I lobbed to him, and if it wasnt for the fact that BY died pointing to some underlying scum motivation, would have never let him get to where he was today. I still think you are a really good pick for scum though, especially as your response to me saying I disliked the wagon on him was "its everyponys fault"."

Alright, this is just dumb. You never defended Jeromus yesterday. You thought you were hammering him in #278, you still supported a Jeromus lynch even if he flipped town in #287, you were still happy with a Jeromus lynch in #299, and then you voted AA in #302 and then never talk about a Jeromus lynch again. And my response was "it was everyone's fault" because

what you're saying isn't true

. The closest you ever come to defending Jeromus is in #411, where you say you are still "iffy" on Jeromus but just don't think Jeromusscum wouldn't pass up the opportunity to lynch AA. OK, but consider the alternative: Jeromusscum just escaped L-1 and probably isn't getting voted. Why jump at the first ML opportunity (AA) when he's not in any more danger? Jeromusscum was just as likely to defend AA as he was to lynch him.

Bottomline: it's pretty clear to me that your recollection of my interaction with KBW is flawed, so I suggest you re-read and reevaluate your relational tells, because this one is busted.

Personally, I'm struggling here. I did not expect Jeromus to flip town and I have too many townreads, which means one of them is probably wrong. My best read right now is that Flay/KBW are not teammates, but I'm suspicious of Qwints' vote just now and I obviously disagree with the basis of Dash's vote. Given that mistrust, I'm disappointed in myself for dismissing my original read on Flay because of Dash's defense earlier, so I'm going to trust myself here and go this way.

Vote: Mr. Flay

[Keybladewielder]

I can't stand you guys.

[Keybladewielder]

VOTE: Desperado

[Rainbowdash]

Desp kinda missing that "not mentioning" and "ignoring" arent quite the same thing. He throws KBW to the VI-townish pile early when thats where the game is taking him and never looks at him again from that point. KBW in turn doesnt engage Desp except when prompted... or apparently unless I call them scum together.

Also intereting that first time he responds to my calling jeromus town is AFTER he died. Really to respond to that though, scum unless they know they are doomed (im not sure that jeromus is good enough scum to read those situations) will not lock themselves out of a mislynch that quickly.

[qwints]

(im not sure that jeromus is good enough scum to read those situations)

Who did you actually mean to talk about here?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Mod: V/LA until friday

[Elyse]

I have no idea who to vote for.