HunterxHunterxMafia: Yorknew City: Endgame

[hitogoroshi]

VC 28 (Day 2, VC 3)

(5)

AngstyMatters:

Vi, Remembrance, Sajin, Magua, Maxous [L-6]
(2)

Remembrance:

Amethyst Kitty, thenewearth
(2)

Metal Sonic:

AngstyMatters, ToastyToast
(1)

Maxous:

Dry-Fit
(1)

Sajin:

Nachomamma8
(1)

ToastyToast:

Kalimar

(8)

Not Voting:

Metal Sonic, Syryana, CF Riot, hp [leaves], CarbonFiber, Remilia Scarlet, Nibelung, implosion

(ToastyToast)

With 20 votes in play, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, June 1st at 2 PM CST.

Day Two Deadline

(expired on 2013-06-01 14:00:00)

Nibelung has requested replacement. Searching...

[Amethyst Kitty]

So, I didn't like Metal Sonic's hammer. It felt a bit forced to me and I'm still discussing that with Mara currently.

I'm also very content with the Rem vote that we have.

I also need to ISO 2 to see what could have been a possible reason for the NK.

VI is someone who I trust as town currently only because I'm not sure if VI-scum would bus a partner when it wasn't needed.

Nacho can you explain the CF scum read please?

Ill be more caught up tomorrow

~mala

[Magua]

Really

interested why Nibelung went from taking the time to reread Gamma's posts, taking time Sunday to reread the topic (as per 886), to replacing out.

---

Think Metal Sonic is town. Just, perhaps, the scummiest town that I've ever had the

joy

opportunity to see. Reading 913 made me want to start a riot (the scare quotes around "bussing", the "where's your proof?", etc), and I totally agreed with CarbonFiber's 925...but it's just *so* *much*. Like, he doesn't stop when other people call him on it, he just keeps right on going. It really plowed through the floor of scummy and back to townie for me.

Can't decide if Kalimar's "Wait guiz RS isn't confirmed town at all" in 891 is paranoid town or scared scum. Leaning paranoid town, especially after his Toasty push in 962.

A weak meta case based on you not being able to read MattP (who hasn't posted much at all) as town. What do you think about Sajin now? Why is AM prioritized over Sajin today? And "because 6" is an answer I won't accept.

@Magua: Is there any other reason why you think Angsty is scum except for that lol-matt-is-not-posting?

Yep. That's how I roll.

Oh, I suppose there's also the soft defense of Gamma D1 ("Guiz, why lynch Gamma? If he's scum he'll get lynched at some point"). Then there's the "MattP has a broken computer," which is fine, but he makes 62 posts over in Fortnight during the week. My experience with phone posting is that its so much easier to read than to post, but there's no "Matt said he thinks this in the QT" from 4nxi3ty, it's just "Matt's not here, yo."

For Sajin, I still don't like his D1 posts, but I reprioritized for the Gamma-scum flip, that is, Angsty makes way more sense as a Gamma partner than Sajin does.

Disinterested, but not a non-presence. That scum MattP was in thread posting shit plenty, whereas this MattP is completely leaving his partner out to dry with posting as scum. I also don't seem to recall him making promises that he'd get into the game constantly; that read more to me like he was trying to kick himself into gear and just not making it whereas he was consistently underwhelming in Gay Mafia II but really didn't talk about it at all. I've also been a pretty big fan on 4nxi3ty's posting lately. Have you found issue with it?

4nxi3ty's posting just leaves me feeling empty. It's like pushes and prods, but no filler. I can't say 4nxi3ty's not taking stances, because he is, they just feel flat, like the most basic, easiest stances around.

----------------------------

Town list is: Vi, thenewearth, Dry-Fit, Kalimar, Metal Sonic, Remilia Scarlet, Carbon Fiber

Who now?/null list is: Amethyst Kitty, Syryana, CF Riot, hp [leaves], Nibelung, implosion

Scum list is: Remembrance, Sajin, Maxous, AngstyMatters, ToastyToast, Nachomamma8

Lists are in no particular order (they're actually in the order of the vote count, which I c/ped and then starting trimming names off of). I'm certainly aware that all of the people I called scum can't actually be scum, but they are the people I'm interested in lynching.

[AngstyMatters]

Don't care if they're nulls, they should lean one way or the other. Give me some reads.

alright I'll play a bit more open

the nulls I am currently going through:

town leans

vi
dryfit
tne
carbon
hp

scum leans

but there's no "Matt said he thinks this in the QT" from 4nxi3ty

of course not, matt wasn't posting much in the QT at the time.

I can't say 4nxi3ty's not taking stances, because he is, they just feel flat, like the most basic, easiest stances around.

^2, Rememberance, Gamma, Saijin, Toasty are all players i defended when momentum was already on them or shifting towards them.

and pushing sonic hasn't been exactly easy, seeing as he has never gotten more than a few votes

[AngstyMatters]

@AM- Where did Toasty wonder if he was wrong? Are you just refering this quote or was there something else?

As much as I dislike ^2's game right now, I think I'm somewhat blinded by the fact that we have very different styles/views on mafia. i still think ^2 is scum, but there are better things to push.

[Nibelung]

Really

interested why Nibelung went from taking the time to reread Gamma's posts, taking time Sunday to reread the topic (as per 886), to replacing out.

Job issues.

[Nachomamma8]

sorry to hear that, hope to see you around elsewhere!
i really liked your play this game...

[Maxous]

Really interested why Nibelung went from taking the time to reread Gamma's posts, taking time Sunday to reread the topic (as per 886), to replacing out.

so, what is the hypothetical scum motivation for Nibelung?

[thenewearth]

Just a note to myself about where I stand right now.

Town: Rem, MS, Nacho, Nielburg, Vi
L.Town: Sajin, implosion
Null: Syr, CF Riot
L.Scum: TNE, Toasty

Most of them I'm sheeping bork

-G

No vote from any of you 2?

[Remilia Scarlet]

I might be flipping around on TNE. He's looking more town to me; entrance on Gamma wagon was plausible and I think his play today is better than yesterday.

Remembrance still town, Metal Sonic still town. Sajin's looking bad to me but GIF disagrees -- I'll talk it over with him. Haven't read Angsty yet.

-bork

[Remilia Scarlet]

EBWOP: We'll get there.

[Magua]

so, what is the hypothetical scum motivation for Nibelung?

Hypothetical scum motivation would be losing D1 lynch followed up with not being able to secure a D2 mislynch.

[Syryana]

/inb4hitoprodsme

I will do my level best to get back into this game today; I just haven't been able to sink back into this one for some reason

If I continue to have problems I will replace out

[Metal Sonic]

So I don't think the Gamma scum flip in any way clears Metal Sonic.

It never did. Why are you assuming it did? Why are you

assuming

I'm scum?

@Metal: Were you aware that Gamma was at L-1 when you voted him?

Yes. The multiple confirmations that Gamma was not new was enough to confirm that Gamma was to be lynched.

Don't judge till you see the flip !

yes that was a scummy post, but flips are always very fun and exciting, and I hope you agree

All I did was to lynch scum using my scumhunting methods. Is that wrong?

If it is not wrong to lynch scum, and if it is the right thing to do, then why in tarnation are you voting me???

The more he says things like this, the more convinced I am that he's scum. He keeps shoving it into our faces. "look at me! I got a scum right so I can't be scum!!!! You can't be mad at me for quick-lynching because I was right!!" And some of these were said BEFORE Gamma had even flipped.

Assume I'm town for a moment. It sounds perfectly plausible as town as is scum. Why are you prejudiced?

That makes me think he actually knew what the flip was going to be, and decided to distance himself from Gamma. Scum teams often use a teammate who is in trouble as a sacrifice to clear doubt from the other team members. And that is what I think is happening here.

If your evidence for why a person is scum only works if you assume the person is scum, the only person in a fallacy here is you.

[Nachomamma8]

so, what is the hypothetical scum motivation for Nibelung?

Hypothetical scum motivation would be losing D1 lynch followed up with not being able to secure a D2 mislynch.

This is horrible and I could pretty much lynch you happily based on this post alone.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho can you explain the CF scum read please?

He defended the fuck out of Gamma in a way that was far scummier than AM's blatant, genuine defense.

Vi gave his reason and I assume Nacho is sheeping or adding pressure for his own reasons. I didn't read your wall so I missed what you said about gamma but having read it now it's hella weak.

Vote: Sajin

@PMatt I think Chrome can translate most of those pages.

He notices me sheeping and adding pressure for my own reasons, never asks me my reasons but continues to resist the wagon.

For me it's this. This is Sajin's support for his vote on Gamma. I don't find this to be a particularly strong reason to think someone is scum, and Sajin's vote was placed shortly after 2 other votes on Gamma while Sajin had 2 votes himself, which makes the timing look opportunistic.

Attacking Sajin for a weak vote on Gamma is nothing more than a shitty chainsaw defense.

I agree with the TNE scumreads. I think Sonic is kind of suspect but not top of my list. I don't feel like Gamma's play should have gathered as many votes as it has. I still suspect Sajin. I feel like Vi sort of deflected my conversation with him about Sajin and I will be watching him closely. I think I remember not liking a post by Kalimar somewhere in the last 5ish pages but I'll look that up again. Still comfortable with my vote on Sajin.

Agreeing with the Gamma counterwagon coming up, soft-defending Gamma but not being aggressive in making people to provide reasons, the "not liking a post by Kalimar in the last 5 pages" shit which just sucks.

lol, really Nacho? -1 for a prod dodge?

This post is scummy as fuck considering Gamma was quickhammered and one of his "kind of suspects" was the culprit.

[Magua]

This is horrible and I could pretty much lynch you happily based on this post alone.

And yet you're not voting me, so.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Magua

I'm stuck trying to figure out whether I want to kill you or your partners.
But I'm definitely satisfied doing this today.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh man all I needed was some cheeky scumfucks to give me the inspiration I need. Gonna do some hardcore reading later and make buldey proud.

[Kalimar]

@Nachomamma: on Sajin: Do you think ISO #8 and 9's Sajin commentary from Gamma was a bluff, then? It seems quite self-defeating to try and deflect attention onto another scum member like that at that early point of the game. It'd be early enough in the game to try something like that and distance from it - but it seems quite unambitious. In the Mafia in La La Land game his initial scumbuddy vote at the start was given a flimsy reason, was hopped off fairly fast and wasn't pushed anywhere near as much as the Sajin one was.

Which reminds me...

@Sajin: Other than AM and MS who you've already mentioned, what do your associative tells tell you about other players in regards to Gamma?

On TT - I found a game where Gamma was scum and he was town (DEFCON Mafia 3) and Gamma seemed to be under TT's radar until around day three. Gamma gave him a null read in one of those long reads lists as opposed to the random townread here. In that context I can kind of see why TT-town might have let Gamma under his radar again. I still find it odd that with the meta experience there wasn't more commentary on the meta case from TT but going by that game it isn't impossible it just wasn't on his radar. Still need to read some more.

Nacho's CF Riot points have piqued my interest. His ISO is pretty bare as well. I would like to see more content from him.

Also, just to note, the deadline is shorter than day one - though no major rush yet. I think it'd be good for the non-voters to put their votes down soon though so we can begin to get some direction to the day.

PS. Somewhat unrelated, but is Vi a male or a female? I'd assumed the latter but some people have said 'he' or 'him' so yeah.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nachomamma: on Sajin: Do you think ISO #8 and 9's Sajin commentary from Gamma was a bluff, then? It seems quite self-defeating to try and deflect attention onto another scum member like that at that early point of the game. It'd be early enough in the game to try something like that and distance from it - but it seems quite unambitious. In the Mafia in La La Land game his initial scumbuddy vote at the start was given a flimsy reason, was hopped off fairly fast and wasn't pushed anywhere near as much as the Sajin one was.

Actually, no. I'm rereading Sajin a bit, and I think that he's a false positive. I like my Magua and CF Riot and ToastyToast reads a whollle lot more.

[Sajin]

@Nachomamma: on Sajin: Do you think ISO #8 and 9's Sajin commentary from Gamma was a bluff, then? It seems quite self-defeating to try and deflect attention onto another scum member like that at that early point of the game. It'd be early enough in the game to try something like that and distance from it - but it seems quite unambitious. In the Mafia in La La Land game his initial scumbuddy vote at the start was given a flimsy reason, was hopped off fairly fast and wasn't pushed anywhere near as much as the Sajin one was.

Actually, no. I'm rereading Sajin a bit, and I think that he's a false positive. I like my Magua and CF Riot and ToastyToast reads a whollle lot more.

Or you were pushing for me to measure your town cred earned from yesterday. Or you put too much faith in a poor point system. I still have outgoing questions to you from my last post. Need me to relist them?

[Nachomamma8]

Metal Sonic bussing was a hypothetical and doesn't reflect my actual thoughts at all. Your other two questions were answered. One of them was answered in the post you quoted.

[Sajin]

Metal Sonic bussing was a hypothetical and doesn't reflect my actual thoughts at all. Your other two questions were answered. One of them was answered in the post you quoted.

fair enough. Thanks. Now I just want to wait for Matt and CF to become alive again.

[Remembrance]

Okay. What is done is done. *whew*

Town:
Kalimar: I think the thing that has sold me on town Kalimar is his natural progression and impatience when he made the Toastytoast case in which he asked a question, didn't really get an answer, and then made a case without hearing that answer. The reason being is that the impatience seems more like something town would do, he was trying to hold in an accusation, but ultimately he couldn't and just blurted it out. This seems to me someone who is using all their faculties as town to create a working argument based off initial impressions and thoughts, it's a cohesive thought process that just doesn't make sense for scum him.

CarbonFiber: Is communicative, which is pro-town. The latter half of #925 isn't really something scum say, while I've met scum that have used their personal experiences to build a case against another, it doesn't really seem to come from that angle, the opening bit about "warning against confirmation bias" isn't really something scum should technically say either, since they know who is scum and who is town, so it doesn't make any sense for him to put that there as scum. His reads and the way he reacts to things also seems more natural than forced.

Nacho: So, for those that forgot:

Buldey, can we make a truce until day 3? Best friends: neither of us suspects the other until day 3, we don't kill each other until day 3 if scum (or at least fight hard for an alternate kill if they really want to kill our slots that badly), we don't play dirty with power roles until day 3. I think it will be most to our benefit if we are both town, but if one of us is scum, I think it will work to the townie's benefit. Do you agree?

^2 accepted this proposal, so unless Nacho couldn't convince them to do otherwise and/or he is pure evil and would break a negotiation, he is town. Of course the initial thought for me is a lot like every other person that does such a, for a lack of a better word, "gambit." But, I probably buy it.

Scarlet: I've already made the case that Bork was lonely. + The oversoul thing. +#1009, which is still showing isolation and communication with Gif outside of thread about their reads. Also, Gif pointed out my paranoia on Syrana, which probably means he has actual insight into my mind, which shows his concerns are more focused toward reading people than other, scum-motivated concerns.

Kitty:
I kind of hate this read, but I can say that Kitty's actions are probably town motivated, if not very productive. Once in a while, I run into a player that hates my guts, thinks everything I do is forced and fake, and in general just won't let up on me. Often, for the whole game or without extreme evidence to the contrary. But, I've never had a scum tunneler yet. Plus the naturalistic responses. Plus the way one of them (Not sure which) made a case against me, which revealed the player struggling to express their suspicions. It wasn't high effort, which points to me as more a town thing than a scum thing, since scum would want to push a mislynch properly. Or at least, optimally they would do this.

These are my relatively strong town reads right now and my cases for why they are probably town. I'll get to everything else in a little bit. I have to respond and look at other things. Such as Angsty's argument that he had defended me when the momentum was going against me, and I felt no such thing. I feel the momentum is only starting to mount on me now, but it certainly wasn't yesterday.