Mini 1452 - Inevitable Mafia (Game Over)

[roflcopter]

hello friends! i have to go drinking now so my first real contributions to this game will have to wait on my hangover tomorrow.

[jmo16mla]

Prod dodge bull shit fuck.

[RadiantCowbells]

I figure I'll just selfvote this, because there is no coherent argument that I am scum yet four idiots are on my wagon.

I have no desire to play with a town this bad, so I'll just lynch myself to confirm myself and leave you guys with strategy.

If we have anyone else with vig powers, shoot DCLXVI tonight. He's scum.

Lynch DCL if he's not already dead, then kill Rob.


Feel free to do whatever you guys want following that.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[Rob14]

^^^ More votes, please.

[ThAdmiral]

I figure I'll just selfvote this, because there is no coherent argument that I am scum yet four idiots are on my wagon.

I have no desire to play with a town this bad, so I'll just lynch myself to confirm myself and leave you guys with strategy.

If we have anyone else with vig powers, shoot DCLXVI tonight. He's scum.

Lynch DCL if he's not already dead, then kill Rob.


Feel free to do whatever you guys want following that.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Don't be an idiot.

I mean if you really don't care just vote who I am telling you to vote - cooldog.
do it.

[gorckat]

Just replace the fuck out Radiant. Don't be an asshole about getting voted.

[CooLDoG]

Because if the claimed masons live that long, they're probably scum, and we lynch them.

What do you mean by "we don't want a 2/3 chance of hitting scum" because I want in on that shit in every Mafia game.

I meant town sorry. See if we let all of this drag out then we have th possibility of a 3 mason claims on the same day in which 2 will by right and one will be scum. Again, all of the wifom can be avoided by lynching dcl today.

@CooLDoG: Who the fuck else is in your scum pile?

right now the only other solid read is on jmo, which is either incredibly scummy or incredibly stupid. Other than that most of the disussion has been about the mason claim, which has not gotten me any reads because I could see why town might think it is a bad idea to lynch the miller/force to claim partner.

Sorry for the double.

This is exactly why dcl has to go today. If we lynch him today we gain so much information and remove so much wifom that to not lynch him would be like give the scum a lolly pop.

This is making lean back to a DCL lynch...if he is a mason, then him living later is a pre-packaged mid-game lynch for scum, and even later with a partner claim.

As scum, I would

absolutely

gamble, in a 4 v 3 LYLO, on having a scum bud claim. Get caught out and you are now gonna have a quick 3 v 2 day then go 2 v 1, texbook lylo. Not shabby.

The other options are for the partner claim on Day 2 (11 players) or Day 3 (9 players). At both points, we need to not be dickering over this.

Obviously ignoring power and killing roles because I don't care what they do and sometimes, oh shit- they die at night.

this is correct. The best play, no matter if you want him to out his bud or not, is to lynch dcl today. Scum are given too much advantage (essentially a free lynch in more important parts of the game) to consider letting him live...

no, because we need to know if there are masons. We don't want a 2/3 chance of hitting scum.

2/3 is bad? Wat?

As scum, I would absolutely gamble, in a 4 v 3 LYLO, on having a scum bud claim. Get caught out and you are now gonna have a quick 3 v 2 day then go 2 v 1, texbook lylo. Not shabby.

Which is why second mason claims BEFORE LYLO.

@CoolDoG what is your opinion of TMT?

See above, I mean town... because we have the possible 3 way mason claim scenario, which is why we really have to lynch dcl before or at the same time that the other mason claims.

TMT seems like a non-contributer. He hasn't done much scum hunting. He doesn't seem to have that much interest in the goings on of the town. Chipping in from time to time. So I would say null to slightly scummy. I would probably lynch him after jmo.

hello friends! i have to go drinking now so my first real contributions to this game will have to wait on my hangover tomorrow.

hello. Solution to hangover: drink more.

Radiant is so fatalistic. Why would anyone of alignment be like that... no idea.

[gorckat]

The advantage to letting DCL around is that if he lives, he and his partner confirm each other and bang, we have two townies and narrow our lynch pool.

If he's town, this is a obviously a huge advantage and focusing the lynch today on someone who didn't vote him (since his partner obv wouldn't) is likely to better our lynching scum today.

BDK saying partner claims before lylo made me think I missed the obvious hole I described in 247 (iirc) (the day 2/3 options for partner to out), but I had forgotten to go into a little more detail with what I think we'd be dickering about.

Let's say DCL is kept around and his partner claims tomorrow. Neither dies come Day 3 and no counter comes.

Are we debating if they're scum going for the gold or if scum are wifoming us into lynches?

"

When do we lynch a living DCL/partner

" is the question we need to answer today. If we are going to let DCL pass, are we going to hang him tomorrow? Day 3? If so, then we have let scum dictate the future of the game and we need to take that control back now and leave them unknowing of the future.

unvote

@Radiant- seriously...why the fuck are you self-voting? Why did you do it earlier in the game? Where else have you played mafia?

[Kitoari]

Votecount #4:
TMTOLBTWNTOF - DCLXVI, BROseidon, jmo16mla, Yates
DLCXVI - CooLDoG,
RadiantCowbells - Rob13, nhammen, TMTOLBTWNTOF, RadiantCowbells,
CooLDoG - ThAdmiral, Does Bo Know,

Not voting - roftcopter

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to go on a witch hunt!

Deadline is May 29th.

[Yates]

I mean if you really don't care just vote who I am telling you to vote - cooldog.

I'd be willing to move my vote to my second biggest scum read if you can tell me why TMT is not scum.

[DCLXVI]

Apologies for not posting. Other games with closer deadline took priority.

Good news is I'm getting a new laptop tomorrow so I should be able to get up to speed.

As far as scum reads go, cooldog, radiant, and TMT are my current scum reads.

Rob is town now also have a town read on gorckat. Admiral is probably town as well.

[Does Bo Know]

See, here's my thing: I never actually had a heavy scumread on DCL, so that's another reason why I haven't been advocating a DCL lynch today.

Can someone,

anyone

, summarize the case on DCL

before

the Mason claim? I'm looking through his ISO, didn't see anything bad about it up until the Mason claim...

Still looking...Okay, so look at his 181...his third point is that he's going to reveal later today why he absolutely won't out his partner today. AND, he apparently already stated with his fourth point that his partner would claim, at the latest, the day before LyLo. Which is what I would've liked to happen, if DCL were actually lynched.

I'm really hoping getting his new laptop tomorrow could give us insight on his actual thoughts.

@DCL: Once you have access to a computer, could you try listing your reads on every player? Since you haven't been able to post properly it's hard to read you.

[DCLXVI]

I've been intentionally avoiding giving reads on players that were not on my wagon. For now I don't want to make it any easier for scum to know who my partner is.

[Does Bo Know]

Okay, fair enough.

Though we do only have 6 days to deadline, so if you're going to give your reason for not revealing your partner today, you better do it soon.

[gorckat]

Can someone, anyone, summarize the case on DCL before the Mason claim? I'm looking through his ISO, didn't see anything bad about it up until the Mason claim...

Good question, and I can't really speak for others because I was pretty much on cruise control for the early stages of this game*.

For me, it was his shiftiness over seeing why I called Radiant town. He didn't get it and then he saw why I did it and never really explained that transition.

It still niggles at me because I actually did base my on

something

, just not anything generally considered obvious or any kind of universal tell, and its something that could be spun as town or scum so it is doubly moot. Radiant had counted the 10 confirms needed to start the game and did so, which read like a tad of newbish enthusiasm. I wouldn't expect scum to do the same- as a rule, scum want to go unseen- so I went with town. Wiggle the wifom dial and you can go back and forth as desired.

So I took a plunge from my normal RVS move of 'vote the person with the most votes with no explanation' and decided to see how moving the game this way worked. Because I'd never done it, I didn't really have anything to base my expectations on.

Now, DCL joining in the calls for more explanation was sensible, fishing a reason for the knowledge and then being all chill with it raised my hackles and I poked. And others poked. And his claim was to use the fishing portion of that wobble as a breadcrumb.

Because the "breadcrumb" first read like fishing, I was hesistant to buy into it. Had Radiant or I coyly acknowledged that possibility, no doubt scum-DCL would see it as a boon to have helped ID masons. But we didn't, obv, so he later falls back on it "I was crumbing".

And suddenly (I just thought)- why do masons need to crumb? They have each other...they go "TA-DA! We are MASONS!" and the scum tremble and the town rejoices. Was the crumb a hedge against one of them dying? Seems way early to be worried about that.

*On me cruising, my wife was yesterday admitted to the hospital for the 4th time in <30 days. We've had at-home nurse care for a week and a half, I've been playing nurse taking off time...it's been a crazy ride and she is having an exploratory surgery tomorrow, so my VLA will be extended (I'm blowing off work duties for the last half hour), but I am just as likely to be posting like crazy from hospital wi-fi.

[DCLXVI]

The reason why I shouldn't claim my partner has already been discussed. I think it is clear why revealing him or her would not help the town

As far as the breadcrumbing is concerned, I did it that in the event I was run, I could avoid having to y partner claim.

[Yates]

Can someone, anyone, summarize the case on DCL before the Mason claim?

Why are you buddying the crap out of the claimed mason in this post? This reads scummy.

[DCLXVI]

See above, I mean town... because we have the possible 3 way mason claim scenario, which is why we really have to lynch dcl before or at the same time that the other mason claims.

How could we have a three way claim scenario... I only have one partner...

[gorckat]

As far as the breadcrumbing is concerned, I did it that in the event I was run, I could avoid having to y partner claim.

Still on a phone? Because the second and third portions are muddied by typos.

[BROseidon]

I meant town sorry. See if we let all of this drag out then we have th possibility of a 3 mason claims on the same day in which 2 will by right and one will be scum. Again, all of the wifom can be avoided by lynching dcl today.

If we have 3 mason claims we lynch the one that isn't a mason. At worst we get a 50% chance from 4 mason claims, with a successful lynch setting up the next day's lynch.

"When do we lynch a living DCL/partner" is the question we need to answer today. If we are going to let DCL pass, are we going to hang him tomorrow? Day 3? If so, then we have let scum dictate the future of the game and we need to take that control back now and leave them unknowing of the future.

Who says we have to? We can set a lynch timer (if neither mason is dead by day N, we lynch DCL), but then also set that as a time when an investigative role can come forward with an investigate on them, as well as all other results up until that point. Insta giant conftown block (and if we think it's 3 scum in that group fucking with cop+2 mason claims, we can lynch one to check and still walk away with a decently sized town block if it was legit, because the cop will be able to conftown multiple people)

[gorckat]

First, since DCL-mason believes there are scum on his wagon, here's in one place everyone who voted him:

Cooldog, gorckat, Radiant, Rob, Thad, TMT

vote: RadiantCowbells

After re-scanning those ISOs, I really don't like Radiant's re-vote of DCL and asking he not be hammered.

Also- read the start of post #62 and the end of post #236. Cognitive dissonance or something something.

[DCLXVI]

First content post. By the way, if there really are masons, there is no reason for them to out their partners first day.

In the case of you being mason, there is no benefit whatsoever to the withholding of your partner's identity,

Good job finding this gorckat.

Vote:radiant

[Rob14]

That's L-1, if my counting abilities have not failed me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Last words:

lynch Rob13 and DCLXVI. Gorckat is town.

[BROseidon]

Claim?