Newbie 1378 - Game Over! (Town Wins)

[JasonWazza]

CONVINCE ME YOU ARE ACTUALLY TOWN YOURSELF MATTEL.

Seriously the newb card got old like a year before you used it.

[mattel]

I hope you are scum jason and we will know soon enough.

[JasonWazza]

oooohhhhh i'm so scared

[Nul]

I'm happy with a Lucky lynch. Just going to be waiting for Mastin's posts now.

[JasonWazza]

@MOD: Prod yourself, uctriton00 and Mastin please oh and Radiant if your that late

[Nul]

Mastin is V/LA till tomorrow.

[JasonWazza]

Sorry it's monday here so i don't see his V/LA thingo

[Lucky2u]

Let's get an updated vote count too please.

Since we have only a few days left, I highly suggest everyone make their intentions known. Let's not miss this chance.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[RadiantCowbells]

Mattel, why do you gotta be like this?

@Lucky2u lol.

[mastin2]

Something should be done about mattel too. 5 posts in 10 pages is disgusting.

Fuck sake. I am new. I am trying to learn and watch as I go along. Sorry if I dont spend 24 hours a day on my pc. I voted and I am watching. If I need to post 20 times a day I shouldn't have signed up.

No, your posting rate's fine. However, I would highly recommend being less passive with your posting.

Me, I've largely been passive because as the IC, being active can strangle newbies, 'specially given my normal playstyle. So this is one case where I can't lead by example and show you what you should be doing via my actions.

What I will say, though, is that you

should

be actively pursuing your read. Explain why you have it, ask questions about it, see what others think about it, and if they don't address you, put pressure onto them until they do. Posting your thoughts as you have them also helps a lot, and basically, posting on average once a day will do wonders for your ability to play.

The more you're posting, the more you're improving. (Okay, so that doesn't really hold true at a certain level, but for a newbie, it definitely is true--activity breeds learning.) So I would highly recommend a change in approach to the game. Passive, minimal posting is looked upon unfavorably. There's no official rule against it, obviously, but people largely think it to be negative to the game environment, and not entirely unjustifiably so.

[mastin2]

SO I thought the newb game was for people to find their way and to help get advice.

Seems most everyone in here is experienced in the game play.

Let's calm down here a bit. I am really new at this and have never play a game where it is not storyline driven. This is absolutely new to me.

Newb games are for people to find their way and get advice--that's largely my job, in fact, to help you. However, you're quite correct--this game seems to be an abnormality, in that the players here have a greater deal of experience than in an average newbie game. Basically, I believe that overall, this specific game is holding a higher standard than most newbie games do, a standard closer to that of the rest of the site.

For the purposes of learning how the rest of the site plays, this game's going to be good. For the purposes of adjusting to how the site plays, not so much. It would appear to largely be "sink-or-swim" in its approach. (Or, in this case, "adapt or be lynched". ) I am, of course, against this, both as a player and as a teacher, since that will potentially drive away newbies.

Guys, From the sounds of things, mattel's on the verge of giving up on mafiascum.net. WE DO NOT WANT THAT, EVER. So put things aside for a minute, and let mattel adjust. He's already doing a good job--by calming down and not rushing, he's taking his time to get things right. A step in the correct direction, but he needs that shove, to also push things more aggressively, so to speak. (And by aggressive, I don't mean, "YOU ARE SCUM!" or "This player is scum, so sheep me." or such. I merely mean pursuing every aspect of the read to the fullest, as I described earlier--posting about it, explaining where you're coming from, asking others to comment and analyze your reasons, and working from that.)

[mastin2]

(Also, will be doing scumhunting stuff later today. Got other errands to run.)

[mattel]

You are a good man, Mastin.thank you.

[mastin2]

You are a good man, Mastin.thank you.

You can thank me by following my advice and telling me more of your thoughts.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: all the posts Lucky2u has made which have townie stuff in them

Regardless of what you think (due to your shallow reads), I'm voting Mastin.

Vote: mastin2

Am I missing something here? Who is that "regardless of what you think" aimed at? Are you playing this game on drugs?

Giving in to pressure to contribute information to town? You act like it is a bad thing.

I think Radiant said it best "...I've found that whenever I'm talkative I get lynched or pushed on immediately...". So yea it can be a bad thing. That's why one scum strategy is to lurk, they know by speaking up it does exactly what you are doing to me.

So you think I'm a townie yet somehow we aren't on the same team. Right. Freudian slip, anyone?

No, it's called a sense of humor, not Freudian slip. In order to fully understand, please kindly bend over, reach around behind you, then remove stick from ass. Also, it is possible to not be friends and be on the same team. Have you never had a job? or been put in a group for a school project? or played a game of Mafia in RL?

--------------

I want to vote for Jason because his crazy aggressiveness will end in a scum victory, regardless of whether he is scum or not. I pray that some of you see that too, if not, I'll join the paradigm wagon. If you insist on voting for me, make sure you take a close look at Nul in the next day, since he is the one leading this wagon.

I really feel like I'm getting no where in going back and forth against Nul. His last few posts show that I can keep it up but I'll never change HIS mind. If anyone else is looking for answers from me, feel free to ask and I'll reply.

UNVOTE:

We are so scattered in our votes right now that I think who ever we end up on, it's going to be more luck than anything. The odds are not in our favor and regardless of "tells", all current evidence against everyone is weak and circumstantial. Radiant is on Crazzy, Nul is on me, Jason is on Radiant, Paradigm is on Mastin, Ucrit is on Jason, I was on Nul, and two people aren't voting, one who is V/LA. It's all a mess right now and if you look at it visually we are all standing in a circle pointing in random directions. I know some of you are going to read this and chastise me again for "not contributing" or say that this doesn't help us, but I think it does. Seven town and two scum, with everyone so wildly different in their votes. This means that whoever you are voting for, probably isn't scum. So follow me down this thread for a second. With my vote removed, there are five people with votes on them. Me, Mastin, Radiant, Crazzy, and Jason. The people voting for those people can't ALL be right, but you could ALL be wrong. We have nine days left, which is good because we aren't even close. I'm putting myself back at square one and going to redo my reads, because something is wrong.

Sure probably, but if that's the WRONG thing to do, what's the RIGHT thing? Put yourself in my town shoes and rewrite that post better.

That does not seem like a good plan moose. If I went to three votes and then started scum hunting, wouldn't the response from either Radiant, Nul, or you moose, be that I was trying to divert attention? If anything, me calling anyone scum at that point would raise the question why did I ignore my own accusation and start finger pointing.

Quick question: What is HAM?

Also, I already OMGUS voted for Nul, and to be perfectly honest he is probably my highest town read, despite everything I've said. I voted for Jason before too, when he voted for me for having a light scum on him. That got us nowhere. Jason is too experienced to make an easy scum mistake, though he is suffering from the Pro vs. Noob frustration. By which I am referring to the phenomenon when a pro plays a noob and the pro gets thrown off by the noob not playing by pro player common sense and can't adjust. (That happens alot in poker and chess)

As for you... Judas. I read you slightly scum before but after the recent events. I don't think your scum either. Why? You me and Paradigm were the most likely to get a wagon started on them. I think you sensed that and threw onto me because it was easiest (Jason followed you happily). Your a townie who got scared that Jason was about to make a good case against you and switched to the person who you knew he'd accept as a subsitute.

Your reads are still mastin and ucrit after me? Radiant doesn't even come up on your radar? Is he a null read to you or a town read?

Views change, things happen. I may have been under the assumption he was a noob when I said that stuff. (I still think he is borderline crazy, he hit me with an inflatable hammer)

We agree on Mastin but not on Radiant. I've given my reason for Radiant, why did that not raise a flag for you? What did he do that makes you read town?

For quick reference. I'll explain soon enough what the maybe-town parts in each of these are. (That said, I think I mighta missed some, thanks to me pulling these up in iso. To get the full amount, I'll have to do them in-context.)

[uctriton00]

back from v/la, need a day to catch up

[JasonWazza]

SO I thought the newb game was for people to find their way and to help get advice.

Seems most everyone in here is experienced in the game play.

Let's calm down here a bit. I am really new at this and have never play a game where it is not storyline driven. This is absolutely new to me.

Newb games are for people to find their way and get advice--that's largely my job, in fact, to help you. However, you're quite correct--this game seems to be an abnormality, in that the players here have a greater deal of experience than in an average newbie game. Basically, I believe that overall, this specific game is holding a higher standard than most newbie games do, a standard closer to that of the rest of the site.

For the purposes of learning how the rest of the site plays, this game's going to be good. For the purposes of adjusting to how the site plays, not so much. It would appear to largely be "sink-or-swim" in its approach. (Or, in this case, "adapt or be lynched". ) I am, of course, against this, both as a player and as a teacher, since that will potentially drive away newbies.

Guys, From the sounds of things, mattel's on the verge of giving up on mafiascum.net. WE DO NOT WANT THAT, EVER. So put things aside for a minute, and let mattel adjust. He's already doing a good job--by calming down and not rushing, he's taking his time to get things right. A step in the correct direction, but he needs that shove, to also push things more aggressively, so to speak. (And by aggressive, I don't mean, "YOU ARE SCUM!" or "This player is scum, so sheep me." or such. I merely mean pursuing every aspect of the read to the fullest, as I described earlier--posting about it, explaining where you're coming from, asking others to comment and analyze your reasons, and working from that.)

Gonna have to agree to disagree, and your actually going against the IC code of don't pull your punches.

We are teaching newbs how to play by playing with them, not by treating them like babies.

(this is not meant to be offensive to anyone)

[RadiantCowbells]

IMO Jason's actions towards mattel were unnecessary, but he's right in principle.

I don't want to get into this debate though, because I feel like Mastin is bringing it up to divert attention from his partner's lynch.

[Nul]

Spoiler: all the posts Lucky2u has made which have townie stuff in them

Regardless of what you think (due to your shallow reads), I'm voting Mastin.

Vote: mastin2

Am I missing something here? Who is that "regardless of what you think" aimed at? Are you playing this game on drugs?

Giving in to pressure to contribute information to town? You act like it is a bad thing.

I think Radiant said it best "...I've found that whenever I'm talkative I get lynched or pushed on immediately...". So yea it can be a bad thing. That's why one scum strategy is to lurk, they know by speaking up it does exactly what you are doing to me.

So you think I'm a townie yet somehow we aren't on the same team. Right. Freudian slip, anyone?

No, it's called a sense of humor, not Freudian slip. In order to fully understand, please kindly bend over, reach around behind you, then remove stick from ass. Also, it is possible to not be friends and be on the same team. Have you never had a job? or been put in a group for a school project? or played a game of Mafia in RL?

--------------

I want to vote for Jason because his crazy aggressiveness will end in a scum victory, regardless of whether he is scum or not. I pray that some of you see that too, if not, I'll join the paradigm wagon. If you insist on voting for me, make sure you take a close look at Nul in the next day, since he is the one leading this wagon.

I really feel like I'm getting no where in going back and forth against Nul. His last few posts show that I can keep it up but I'll never change HIS mind. If anyone else is looking for answers from me, feel free to ask and I'll reply.

UNVOTE:

We are so scattered in our votes right now that I think who ever we end up on, it's going to be more luck than anything. The odds are not in our favor and regardless of "tells", all current evidence against everyone is weak and circumstantial. Radiant is on Crazzy, Nul is on me, Jason is on Radiant, Paradigm is on Mastin, Ucrit is on Jason, I was on Nul, and two people aren't voting, one who is V/LA. It's all a mess right now and if you look at it visually we are all standing in a circle pointing in random directions. I know some of you are going to read this and chastise me again for "not contributing" or say that this doesn't help us, but I think it does. Seven town and two scum, with everyone so wildly different in their votes. This means that whoever you are voting for, probably isn't scum. So follow me down this thread for a second. With my vote removed, there are five people with votes on them. Me, Mastin, Radiant, Crazzy, and Jason. The people voting for those people can't ALL be right, but you could ALL be wrong. We have nine days left, which is good because we aren't even close. I'm putting myself back at square one and going to redo my reads, because something is wrong.

Sure probably, but if that's the WRONG thing to do, what's the RIGHT thing? Put yourself in my town shoes and rewrite that post better.

That does not seem like a good plan moose. If I went to three votes and then started scum hunting, wouldn't the response from either Radiant, Nul, or you moose, be that I was trying to divert attention? If anything, me calling anyone scum at that point would raise the question why did I ignore my own accusation and start finger pointing.

Quick question: What is HAM?

Also, I already OMGUS voted for Nul, and to be perfectly honest he is probably my highest town read, despite everything I've said. I voted for Jason before too, when he voted for me for having a light scum on him. That got us nowhere. Jason is too experienced to make an easy scum mistake, though he is suffering from the Pro vs. Noob frustration. By which I am referring to the phenomenon when a pro plays a noob and the pro gets thrown off by the noob not playing by pro player common sense and can't adjust. (That happens alot in poker and chess)

As for you... Judas. I read you slightly scum before but after the recent events. I don't think your scum either. Why? You me and Paradigm were the most likely to get a wagon started on them. I think you sensed that and threw onto me because it was easiest (Jason followed you happily). Your a townie who got scared that Jason was about to make a good case against you and switched to the person who you knew he'd accept as a subsitute.

Your reads are still mastin and ucrit after me? Radiant doesn't even come up on your radar? Is he a null read to you or a town read?

Views change, things happen. I may have been under the assumption he was a noob when I said that stuff. (I still think he is borderline crazy, he hit me with an inflatable hammer)

We agree on Mastin but not on Radiant. I've given my reason for Radiant, why did that not raise a flag for you? What did he do that makes you read town?

For quick reference. I'll explain soon enough what the maybe-town parts in each of these are. (That said, I think I mighta missed some, thanks to me pulling these up in iso. To get the full amount, I'll have to do them in-context.)

#90: Feels like Lucky is getting a bit hyped up about a vote on Mastin. This potentially points to scum buddies. Townies generally don't care who other people vote on, especially when the person being voted on only has one vote on them. This post seems very forced.


#93: 1. To support his argument that "

talking too much is bad

" he says "

that's why scums lurk

", this is a potential freudian slip. He is also acting more concerned with staying alive than contributing information to town, thus his reasoning: "

talking too much is bad because it gets you lynched

". See how his main concern is getting lynched rather than scumhunting.

2. He uses ad hominem, attacking the person instead of the argument. This is a scumtell as scums like to use ad hominem to make other people's cases on them seem weak, detracting from the actual arguments being made.

3. Quoted: "

I want to vote for Jason because his crazy aggressiveness will end in a scum victory,

regardless of whether he is scum or not.

"

His intentions were revealed to not even be for scumhunting. He is not sure whether Jason is scum or not here but he is intent on lynching him (he wasn't voting for pressure; quoted (#84):"

I can't say for certain whether he is scum or not, but he would be worth

getting rid

of either way.

"). It is worth noting that he later backpeddles on this which does nothing but adds to his scumminess. He was pretty intent on lynching Jason here, there is a drastic change in behaviour towards Jason once Lucky realises how many posts Jason has.


#135: He is trying to take us back to square one and divert the course of the discussion, saying that "

we are probably all wrong

" because according to his "mathematics based on the chance of randomly voting scum" it is more likely everyone's votes are on townie. Inane logic followed with illogical reasoning. Does nothing to contribute to the discussion but tries to detract from it by diverting it to the start again.


#148: Reconfirms that he is more focused on trying to not be lynched rather than scumhunting. Quoted: "

Sure probably, but if that's the WRONG thing to do, what's the RIGHT thing? Put yourself in my town shoes and rewrite that post better.

" This seems to me that he was actually writing posts putting "town shoes" on, why is he so intent on trying to seem town rather than scumhunting? That's because he is scum, his focus is trying to appear town not scumhunting.


150: Again he states that if he started scumhunting people would think he was doing so because of "pressure". I'll reiterate:

he is more intent on seeming town-like than scumhunting.

#157: Backpeddles on his scumread on me, and another drastic change is seen; I somehow jump from a scumread to his highest townread "

despite everything he's said

". The quoted line just shows I was his highest townread all along but he still wanted to OMGUS vote me because he wants to lynch people, not scumhunt. Notice the change in behaviour towards Jason. This entire post reeks of scumminess just from how far he has backpeddled in such a short amount of time.

Illogical deductions in second paragraph (pointed out by Jason), it doesn't make sense at all. I feel this is because he has information that we don't know (who is town, who is scum, etc).


#187: You can see he backpeddles again from a townread on Radiant to a scumread. I feel this is because after Jason pointed out his illogical reasoning, he realised he could use it to try to attack Radiant (before he didn't want to use it because he knows Radiant is town, which explains why his deduction doesn't make sense).


@Mastin, instead of trying to prove Lucky is town, I think you should try to prove why he is not scum. It seems like you want to ignore all the arguments that has already been made (all the points above had actually already been mentioned) and try to build a case on why he is town in an attempt to obscure the past. You've posted quite a bit since your V/LA but you have still yet to do any form of

actual

scumhunting.

Your ISO just looks to me like you are trying to lead discussion away from points that have already been made and instead trying to create a new topic of discussion when the past arguments haven't even been addressed yet. You haven't been scumhunting at all, your focus seems to be on trying to prove Lucky is town.

[JasonWazza]

I'm waiting for him to give the maybe town parts of them.

Also waiting for him to find scum to vote.

And if anyone hammers before Mastin starts scumhunting, they will be lynched tomorrow.

[JasonWazza]

Also where the hell is our mod?

He hasn't been here since saturday so i am going to notify Singersigner that he may be missing AWOL etc.

[mastin2]

@Mastin, instead of trying to prove Lucky is town, I think you should try to prove why he is not scum.

The thing is, I'm not entirely sure that he's not. He could be, but I'm not convinced one way or the other.

[mastin2]

Actually, I feel confident enough to do this.

Vote: RadiantCowbells

.

[JasonWazza]

Mastin, why?

ACTUALLY SCUMHUNT SO I CAN HAVE A READ ON YOU

[Nul]

Looks like the Lucky wagon isn't going to go off. We really need the replacement for Paradigm, and mattel needs to post more, seriously.

At first glance, it looks like Uct is intentionally lurking but I checked his posts and it looks like he's been inactive in all his games. My scumread on him is still low. I wish Mastin would stop acting so mysterious and non-contributive with his thoughts, he only talks a lot when he is teaching about something or talking about something unrelated to the game.