Mini Normal 1460 - Normalville Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Elyse]

I do it a lot actually.

[Slandaar]

Nacho explain your initial Elyse vote

Gut.

OK good so it was a serious vote, so how much had you read before making the wall and voting Future?

[Nachomamma8]

I do it a lot actually.

Examples?

OK good so it was a serious vote, so how much had you read before making the wall and voting Future?

Elyse's ISO to that point. I have a recent town baseline from her and I figured she'd be easy to read based off that, and she didn't read town.

[Grimgroove]

Elyse, what are your current reads?

Same question for you, thank you!

[Grimgroove]

Oh, and remind me to see if Nachopappa's walls actually make sense. I just looked at his reads on me for now, and those don't make any sense. I don't even know what his read is on me right now. Does anyone? Even his case on Nachomamma is coated with megafluff. I also find him overly careful when expressing his reads, Always adding some form of "these are just preliminary observations" or "I got later in the game, bear with me"-kind of sidenotes. Not liking those sidenotes, too apologetic.

OK, just went over what happened while I was gone today.

Grimgroove, I'm not known to make sense.

Honestly, I'm having a hell of a fun time in this game mostly because I love playing with Nacho. And he's right, I hate playing scum - especially around him - I'd be super paranoid and I'd lurk like crazy. One of our completed games is an example. If I'm playing without him and I'm scum, I might give an effort for a while until all my deceiving energies are gone, but eventually, rather quickly, the effort would just fizzle out because I hate it just that much. Normally, it is just not in my heart to make an effort to be so deceitful for an extended period of time. Moreso if people I'm familiar with are around.

And before you do it, AtE is not a scumtell. If you're going to call circle-jerking "fluff," don't. If you wish to make a case on me rather than going in a roundabout way about why everything in my post didn't make sense and was mega-fluff, I urge you to do that.

That's a very defensive last paragraph

But let us first look at the rest of this post:

You start by admitting you usually don't make much sense. Either this was meant in a comical fashion (fluff), or it meant an acknowledgment of my view that you don't. This is contradictory to the defensiveness in the last paragraph, where you seem very bothered by this view of mine.

The paragraph starting with "honestly" is a bunch of cowdung. Without mentioning the WIFOM-aspect of it all, meta'ing yourself is just as bad as agreeing with someone else's meta-study on you, even when this person seems to be all you desire to be. The point of my post was that I wanted to find out (note how I didn't reach any conclusions yet, making uyour defensiveness even stranger) in how far you actually did put in an effort, or if you were just randomly collecting posts and put some symbols next to them.

First of all this procedure is not very helpful for any of us. When you are being asked about the "why's" of the exclamation marks and dollar signs, we are presented with a disclaimer that these are just preliminary observations, where you seem to want to apologize for possibly threading on any toes. Also the link between these dollarsigns and exclamation marks and the conclusions you reach on people is very unclear.

I don't need to show why "everything" in your post doesn't make sense. But the sample study I did do (your read on me, because it was the easiest to carry out) doesn't make sense. If this is illustrative for the rest of your reads, I fear we might indeed have a deceitful heartless scum on our hands.

I'll get back to your read on me in more detail later, I forgot to multiquote it and don't feel like starting this post all over again.

And yes, of course I call your circlejerking (it's not really a circle though) fluff, what else could you call it? A helpful addition to catching scum? Of course I don't mind the occasional tongue-in-cheeck comments and all that, this game is supposed to be fun, but this thing you're doing with Nachomamma is obviously some kind of act. A big act. Given the choice of your nickname I'm sure that this act goes beyond this game, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to use it as some kind of cover as well. This whole thing makes the link between the two of you close to impossible to read and I don't like it.

Now I want to move to your read on Nachomamma. Obviously there is something going on between the two of your that surpasses the realm of this game, but your interactions with him, I find them unnatural.

Again I failed to multiquote the segments where you voted him and you told him why. I'll feel free to paraphrase this thusly:

Nachpappa voted Nachomamma because he wasn't putting much effort in his posts, and didn't seem tob e scumhunting.
This remark was coupled with buddying, along the lines of "I don't want to vote you", blahblehblah.

Then Nachomamma makes a case (aka starts a war of the quotes) with Elyse, and Nachopappa is pleased, and not only does he remove his vote, he immediately sheeps him:

Yay, Nacho's actually making posts that make Pappa happy.

Please listen to Nacho, Elyse, or the ground beneath you will tremble.

Love,

Mamma's friend Pappa

unvote

Nacho, if you feel strongly that someone is scum, I'm just gonna sheep you. Cuz I really liked your posts when you actually TRIED to give a post that's not pitiful. <3

Pappa has now joined Mamma, guys.

And I forgive you for being a sinner, Nacho. <3

Vote: Elyse

Fire is very bad for business.

Now my questions to Nachopappa:

* What makes you so pleased with Nachomamma's case on Elyse?
* What do you make of the fact Nachomamma needed a prompt (an L-2 wagon) in order to start scumhunting?
* Do you think Nachomamma's case on Elyse qualifies as scumhunting?

I'll answer that last question myself: I don't think it does. Mind you, he could be right, but what I see is no scumhunting from Nachomamma's part, it's a tunnel. This tunnel might lead us to scum, but this tunnel might also be his easy way out of a thight spot. Making a case against one person is easy. You ISO them, you nitpcik on their posts, put everything in a bad light, and put the attention on them. That's why I asked about Nachomamma's reads on others. I want to find out if he really did try to find scum, or if he decided to focus on Elyse from the start in case he'd get in trouble himself.

Elyse does seem scummy enough, I'll check her meta to see if she's one of these people who always seem scummy. Some people do that, and Nachomamma might just be the kind of person to try and take advantage of that from the very start. They way he tunneled her from the start seems to point that way.

Next up:
Nachpappa's ridiculous read and why Ztiffe's last post was scummy and should be our Day 1 lynch.

[Grimgroove]

Sidenote:

Sorry guys the game started on the first day of my short vacation.. Will be back tomorrow to post =)

catching up in progress.

Beyond that, the amusing way that he tried to twist it by saying that I am absolving myself with it was pitifully scummy because it shows disparity between his self vote and his interest in self preservation, thus revealing that he does not want to die at all. <--- This + Play + Attitude = Scum.

=

I think RedDragon is bluffing or something.

He says that he's willing to be lynched, but then asks if we want him to claim? What's that about? If you want to be lynched, what's the point of claiming and possibly stalling your lynch?

[Grimgroove]

Hmm, those Ztife quotes weren't supposed to be there, that's for my next post.

[Grimgroove]

I don't know if a lynch on him will still be doable, but I got quite convinced Ztife is scum.
Because this read on Ztife makes my read on Nachomamma/Elyse more complicated because of Ztife's stance on both, I'd prefer to start with a lynch on Ztife and sort out the Elyse-Nachomamma thing later.

Pretty much all of his posts are scummy. ISO him and see for yourself if you don't want to read my wall (I have the impression few people do)

Posts 86 and 144 are just statements he'll be catching up, after he arrived late in the game. Post 86 dates from the 14th of June.

On the 17th of June, 3-4 days later, he presents us with post 161. At first sight this looks like an impressive block of text, but all it is is a rehash of the game theory discussions of what has been going on. Based on this, he starts a case against BP, who Ztife will be tunneling throughout the rest of the game based on this case. In 161 no other arguments are given besides this game theory disagreement, aside from a particularly agressive take on BP's post 112, which he chooses to read in the worst possible light.

The following that happens is that Darthe gives him a townread for this awful post, and me putting question marks around this by stating what I just stated here.

He responds to this in 170 by a complete misrep of me and by asking me hordes of questions that have already been answered. This proved for me he hadn't really read the topic, or caught up as he promised on the 14th of June and pretended to deliver on the 17th of June.

This is where I'll actually start (partially) quoting, because the posts get a bit smaller.

@Grim
Ok, I see. I admit I haven't take much of a closer look at alot of posts yet,

but atm the only thing that interest me is BP.

What do you think of his hesitation then? It was not so much of an NL, but more of the lack of explaination for his own push and then the wavering opinions about it.

@PeregrineV
Please explain your BP town read.

Gonna be catching up on this future wagon now.

He admits to only be interested in BP, while at the same time admitting he hasn't taken a closer look to other posts. This hints at a bias from the very start of the game, because why would he decide to take a closer look at BP's posts and not at others? He had 3-4 days of catching up, yet all he managed to do was read BP's posts?
Note that now suddenly, as opposed to 161, the game theory disagreement in itself is suddenly no longer the problem, and the sidenote and agressive interpretation of 112 suddenly become the center of his "case". I responded to his question, but he never bothered to respond that that answer, probably because it didn't fit his story.
Note the promise he'll be catching up on the Future-wagon. All these promises of catching up sound to me like someone who doesn't put much effort into scumhunting and buys himself some time.

In post 201 we still see nothing of this supposed catching up with the Future-wagon, but just see another remark towards BP. BP is obviously still his only interest, and all this still based on this game theory discussion. If the case were strong I'd agree, but this kind of tunneled commitment is entirely unwarranted.

Then finally, the catch-up with other things going on in this topic in post 220, which I'll split up a bit for the sake of being clearer.

Don't really have any reads on future tbh since it looks like mostly semi-serious posting in RVS. Seems to be over-reacting though with the case from Grim, but I can't really read anything.

I see a lot of second-guessing and on the fence sitting. He starts the sentence with "Can't get any reads" and ends in the same way, and in between there's something that's supposed to speak in Future's favor (I don't actually understand the part about semi-serious posting), and one against Future for an overreaction. While I don't understand the first point, i don't believe it makes much sense. The second point definitely makes no sense. Future barely responded to my case. He overreacted to the deletion of his supposed defense, but he never really responded to my case.

@PeregrineV's 109
How does BP looks town to you?

Scum doesn't argue for No lynches, because they want to mislynch instead.
They especially don't take a no-lynch stance and then actively defend it after it's been pointed out how it's not the best solution.
Of course his play and stances will be continually evaluated, but for day1, I'm good with BP=town.

That's false, NL and mislynch technically similar for scum. Both situations requires 3 mislynches after to win. If we're lynching D1 scum will be forced to make a decision of joining a wagon or not and shit, if its NL everyone would just sit back and relax.

Also, my point is it does not seem like he is arguing for it and actively defending it, quite the contrary actually.

More game theory talk, trying to enforce his flimsy case against BP through repetition. His last sentence is very unclear, but I think it refers again to BP's stating he wouldn't mind a NL and BP's participation in voting wagons. An argument to which I reacted before, but Ztife casually ignored.

Personally I wasn't so comfortable with Slandaar putting future at L-1 so quickly after nacho's vote. It may be nothing but if future flips town....

This.
Then again, I never quite gotten understanding slandaar and his voting and explainations in a couple of games anyway.

These "then again" posts seem very scummy to me. Very on the fence and secondguessing, again no clear read. Note that up to this point he has given no read on anyone apart from BP.

Next quote I'll also be splitting up:

TBH, I'm finding it hard to get into this game, mainly with the lack of pressure on BP and the tunneling (or the tunneling awhile back) of Future.

First of all: hypocrite. If anyone's been tunneling on anyone, it's Ztife on BP. And why does lack of pressure on one person make it harder to get into a game? This game is more than just about BP. His reasons for not being able to get into the game make no sense, and are an easy excuse for his broken promises.

Bullshit. <b>unvote vote sunnydays </b>

The bolding, the lack of colon after mod reminder, and a crucial hammering vote. Seems sloopy/fake. Hmm.

Given Darthe's earlier generous townread and this weak attempt at some form of criticism, I wouldn't be surprised when I see a Darthe-Ztife-Elyse scumteam. (Elyse got added for reasons unexplained in this post, but Ztife's vote on Nachomamma and the connection between Darthe and Elyse that's been pointed out earlier are the principal reasons).

UNVOTE:

I think I see what happened here. SunnyDays simply misread his role-pm.
Nothing as honest as a mistake. SunnyDays is town and I was wrong about Future.

What do you think he was misreading then? SunnyDays just seems to be posting crap claims and OMGUS voting, someone please explain to me the reasoning how is he town.

Beating a dead horse. By removing the SunnyDays vote we actually dropped the tunnel he claimed to regard as an impediment to get into the game, yet here I can only see disappointment when we actually do move the vote for reasons that have been explained adequately.

309
The case is mostly on gooner's theory talk with weak reasoning, I don't really see how scum could give out jumbled cases like this. Seems like genuine town with weak scum hunting. Need to see his reads and thoughts more, 5 posts does not warrant a confident read for me.

All of this criticism applies to his own case on BP. This is an exercise of simultanously buddying to Slandaar by calling him a probtown, but at the same time trying to make him less of a threat in this topic by calling his cases jumbled and weak. This also reads as a weak defense for thegooner, but I don't think the gooner-slot is part of the scumteam. Sounds like a minor effort for a set-up.

Sunnydays is going to have to do a little better than that in the Future.



Damn I'm funny.

Vote:thegooner

@PeregrineV
How confident is your read on gooner? Any particular highlights why he seems scum to you?

Same as above. Note there has been no substance with these criticism on the case against gooner, and also no clear read from Ztife on gooner. BP is still the only person Ztife gave a read on.

thegooner obviously will be needing a replacement.

While we wait:

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Not agreeing with this. ATM still seems pretty null to me.

Remember this.

@PeregrineV
How confident is your read on gooner? Any particular highlights why he seems scum to you?

Answered this pre-tiger, but his first real post expresses a concern with the perception he may still be in RVS.
His second post was on mafia theory and his take on it.
Third was badly reasoned vote on Beazu.

Confidence is it's day1, so willing to listen to other arguments, but my own inferior scumhunting has brought me to this conclusion.

What of sunny's claim? Do you buy it?

No comment on the questions about gooner, so still no read from Ztife. all we get is another question about the already dead case on SunnyDays, also someone Ztife didn't give a read on. Only open questions without any follow-up.

thegooner obviously will be needing a replacement.

While we wait:

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Not agreeing with this. ATM still seems pretty null to me.

If he's null to you, why bother singling out this vote on him in order to express your disagreement? I haven't seen you do that for votes on other people?

Because of a lack of reason, and because im interested in knowing what you have to say for the vote.

Poor answer, there have been plenty of votes without reasoning, notably from Nachomamma himself. His interest in my motivations could be explained by scum wanting to hop on a certain wagon he earlier claimed to disagree with.

@Red Dragon
Heed this., Elyse"]
I think sunny's claim is incredibly ambiguous as well, but im more inclined to look at how the wagon is falling apart.
There's no deadline yet, so wait for gooner's slot to post.

Suddenly the SunnyDay's claim is less of an issue, he simply calls it ambiguous (still no clear read). Despite all the questions he asked about it before, he doesn't seem to care very much about the claim. Then why the questions?
Also he states he wants to see how the wagon fell apart? What does this mean? And where did he do that?

5 days to deadline.
In the exchange between Elyse and Nacho, nacho's case seems abstract, Elyse gives me an overrall more town feel.

Unvote, Vote: Nachomamma8

BP is still my highest scum read though, I'll be happy to get this wagon if there's enough support.

As for RD, from the previous game I have been with him he seems to be the kind of player with such a "defeatist" playstyle. As such he reads town to me, although I don't agree with the self vote.

And this one takes the cake in scumminess. His shift from a null-read on Nachomamma to an L-2 (I'd call it an L-1 vote given the circumstances) without a satisfying explanation."An abstract case"? What is Ztife's case on Nachomamma then? He put him at L-2 over such a silly reason? Really?

And BP still being his highest scumread, well, the case is weak, and BP was hardly here lately, not providing Ztife with extra arguments. This is just a way to show us he's got different possible trajectories, keeping an open-minded stance, but in all fairness: he's got nothing. He's got no cases, no reads, just a tunnel on BP and a very poor L-2 vote on Nachomamma.

Lynch him.

[Grimgroove]

Almost forgot:

VOTE: Ztife

[Grimgroove]

I'm too tired to go into the Nachopappa thing further, and as it suddenly feels less relevant, I'll save it for later.

[Slandaar]

Lets lynch Elyse

VOTE: Elyse

[Darthe]

How about we get Red Dragonscum instead of people floundering for other lynches for unremarkable reasons?

The chainsaw defending going on here is fucking ridiculous, seriously. Grim, could you possibly deflect from this with anyone else? You've only pointed fingers at about half the player roster now.

I found mafia. And he still hasn't played to his normal activity level again. Truly, RD is laying low.

[Red Dragon]

So when you ask to be lynched and people vote for you, that's opportunistic?

I'm sorry but I'm failing to grasp that concept.

goddamn it, you are going to make me quote a dictionary aren't you? Are you fucking serious here. You don't know what the word opportunistic means... I can't criticize everyone because some of the votes on me were not opportunistic.

Definition of OPPORTUNISTIC
: taking advantage of opportunities as they arise: as
a : exploiting opportunities with little regard to principle or consequences <a politician considered opportunistic>
b : feeding on whatever food is available <opportunistic feeders>

If they fit the above, then hell yes I can call them out. Some of them do. So kindly go back to 4th grade where people explain what words mean, thanks.

Nacho, if you feel strongly that someone is scum, I'm just gonna sheep you.

And you were doing so well. I don't like it when people blindly follow others. It seems like an attempt to absolve one's self of responsibility.

Almost forgot:

VOTE: Ztife

You mkae quite to compelling case for zitfe. Just a quick question, is elyse or nachomamma scum? Meaning is it highly unlikely, in your opinion, for them both to be of the same alignment?

Truly, RD is laying low.

so, can I ignore this guy now? Because he is obviously not reading the same game as the rest of us.

[Grimgroove]

The chainsaw defending going on here is fucking ridiculous, seriously. Grim, could you possibly deflect from this with anyone else? You've only pointed fingers at about half the player roster now.

Deflect what? The Red Dragon has disintegrated even without my doing.

And yes, I point a lot of fingers. When people act scummy, I do. Could you point to where I made an argument that didn't make sense, in order for you to conclude my fingerpointing is simply a deflection?

You could also try to respond to the content of the case? I bet you didn't even read it.

Currently, Elyse and Nachomamma are locked into a fight which will likely result in one of them getting lynched, and frankly, at this stage, I wouldn't mind either of them hanging from the rope. To respond to Red Dragon: if find it very unlikely they are aligned.

Like I said, I find it too early to get any firm conclusion on either Nachomamma or Elyse. They both act scummy, and they both have scummy people on their wagon.

Hence I feel more comfortable in voting Ztife, based on my own case and my own arguments.

Nacho's case on Elyse seems compelling, but like I said, might be a set-up. If both would be at L-1 at the end of D1, right now I'd say I'd also vote to lynch Elyse.

[Darthe]

I'll happily respond to points that I do not agree with tonight (girlfriends birthday, I'm reading as I get ready). Personally, I think Elyse and Nacho are town on town and my point is that when a lynch is getting continuously stalled by any means it typically is indicative of mafia not wanting that person to be pressured or lynched. When you take into consideration that this is a self voting, depraved, lurking, and manipulative soul who has had every opportunity and reason known to man to be lynched and yet he isn't: something is fishy.

And yeah, Nacho/Elyse are not playing their greatest. But your conjecture of some wildly large setup between them and I is simply implausible to me, and would be even if I didn't know my own role PM.

Personally, I don't actually have much on Ztife. He is sort of another weak case that isn't doing much but also won't give much info. I don't know why you would want that to be our D1 lynch as he is one of the least profitable available.

[Grimgroove]

And yeah, Nacho/Elyse are not playing their greatest. But your conjecture of some wildly large setup between them and I is simply implausible to me, and would be even if I didn't know my own role PM.

Nonono, don't make me sound like some crazy conspiracy theory guy. I never claimed such thing.
The explained exactly what the Nachomamma-Elyse thing is about in 479, you have nothing to do with that.

What conjecture is it that you're talking about?

Currently I'm linking you to Elyse (what is your read on her) and Ztife. I don't expect you to have much on Ztife, but commenting on my case against him could give us insights on how you do read him. I disagree it's a weak case. and even if it is, there's no reason not to try and make it stronger.

We'll see in the end which case is stronger by seeing whog ets lynched, but if you want to get that Red Dragon lynch you'll have to come with more than you already did. All you've proven so far is that he has acted like a VI. What are the scumtells?
You call him:
self voting - not scummy in this case
depraved - ?
lurking - untrue
manipulative - please...

[Nachopappa]

* What makes you so pleased with Nachomamma's case on Elyse?
* What do you make of the fact Nachomamma needed a prompt (an L-2 wagon) in order to start scumhunting?
* Do you think Nachomamma's case on Elyse qualifies as scumhunting?

OK, OK, I'll stop being his sidekick for the time being, Elyse. Sorry.

1) I was happy it seemed he was actually trying to make non-one-liner posts.
2) It's silly of him to invite pressure like that.
3) Yeah I think it does – as theoretical “scumhunting.” Because I don’t know whether he is actually trying to find scum or if he’s just flinging shit to stir up mislynches.

I'll answer that last question myself: I don't think it does. Mind you, he could be right, but what I see is no scumhunting from Nachomamma's part, it's a tunnel. This tunnel might lead us to scum, but this tunnel might also be his easy way out of a thight spot. Making a case against one person is easy. You ISO them, you nitpcik on their posts, put everything in a bad light, and put the attention on them. That's why I asked about Nachomamma's reads on others. I want to find out if he really did try to find scum, or if he decided to focus on Elyse from the start in case he'd get in trouble himself.

OK. I see your point. And I always buddy Nacho in every single one of my games with him. Get used to it. I’ll read your post on Ztife in a bit. Brb.

[Nachopappa]

How about we get Red Dragonscum instead of people floundering for other lynches for unremarkable reasons?

The chainsaw defending going on here is fucking ridiculous, seriously.

Grim, could you possibly deflect from this with anyone else?

You've only pointed fingers at about half the player roster now.

I found mafia. And he still hasn't played to his normal activity level again. Truly, RD is laying low.

Why are you calling this deflecting? Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of walls since it takes a lot of effort for me to read, but he's putting forth data which could incriminate him or the people he talks about. I hate when people call this "deflecting." There's no such thing. It's making a case against others at all times, regardless if pressure is on the poster or not. I get called out on this at times so I am totally against this deflecting crap.

[Nachopappa]

Nacho they're right that you haven't given your complete current reads at any point during this game. Why don't you just do it? Are you playing chicken?

Oh bloody hell, grim, I type what I think and I'm offended that you choose to call it cowdung. Believe it or not, those two walls where I highlighted with exclamation points and dollar signs...I worked on that for hours to get acquainted with everyone. They may not all make sense hence the word "random observations," but they in their state are the exact vibes I got upon reviewing the game. They're a compilation, and as scattered as they may look, that is my list for not just you but also me to look at when I review the game and see what I've thought at different stages.

And actually on second thought you're posting so many walls I'm gonna take a while to get back to you about what I think.

[Elyse]

This game.

Lets lynch Elyse

VOTE: Elyse

Why

@Grim
Your case on Ztife is basically what you accused Nacho of doing to me. You said, "Making a case against one person is easy. You ISO them, you nitpcik on their posts, put everything in a bad light, and put the attention on them." Moreover, if you think that me vs Nacho is town vs scum, then you should really be on one of us rather than creating a new wagon. Also, can you explain this link between me, Darthe, and Ztife you keep mentioning?

@RD
I know what opportunistic means, but thanks for the lesson. My point was that if you ask someone to vote for you, and they do, it's not opportunistic.

@Nachopoppa
Your reasoning for switching off of Nacho and onto me is complete shit.

@Nacho
Here's an example of me giving a reads list without wanting to:

I hate doing reads lists like these, but apparently I'm tunneling so here we go:

_Zaradi_ - Null
Amethyst Actor - Town
BT - Null
fuzzybutternut - Nullscum
gangsta_duck41 - Scum
Grandi - Town
Keybladewielder - Null
Mathdino - Scum
MonkeyMan576 - Nulltown
mozamis - Scum
Salamence20 - Null
Z3r0 - Null

I really don't like mozamis' last few posts. Wouldn't mind his lynch either.

Gangsta, why do you keep asking people why they think me v. you is town v. scum?

I'll respond to the quote wall soon. It's just so tedious and arguing with someone you like takes the fun out of it for me.

[Nachopappa]

It is shit, Elyse. I'll go read the game. Sometimes I get overexcited and just sheep him. I'll try to be my own player in this game from now on. Sorry.

[Elyse]

I don't go directly and try to lynch someone for everything they do.

That's not what I accused you of. It's just strange you had such a weak response to someone trying to spring for a lynch on Page 5. Is explaining an RVS after the fact really scummier than that for you?

Baezu seemed noobish and it could be explained by that.

Again, why don't YOU explain it? And what I explained DID matter.

I'm not explaining it because it's not my suspicion. Why does wacky capitalization equal scum?

It wasn't so much the capitalization as it was the "I swear I'm town" when no one was really pressuring her. The capitalization was for effect.

YOU ARE DOING THE SAME DAMN THING. And I had an excuse. I was sick. Do you want a doctor's note? I'm not going to not point out something I see as scummy just because other people think I'm doing it.

No, it's not. I was sick for the beginning of the game and now I'm contributing and interacting. This post was literally your first non-shit post (actually it still is shit but at least you tried?), so you can't say a damn thing.

You're not going to stop pointing out things you find scummy just because you're also doing it; why do you expect me to behave differently? Also, the point wasn't that you were lurky. I never cared about that. All I was noting was the hypocrisy.

I'm not even going to start about how you are being hypocritical by you doing nothing until there was a wagon on you and asking me for my reads when you haven't given your's.

But Future's lynch would have helped me determine Darthe's alignment.

If Future was scum, sure. If Future was town... wouldn't really give you much, would it?

Yes?

No, he said to lynch him to make sure that we don't let SunnyDays off the hook for his entrance into the game. He said that we shouldn't have abandoned an L-1 wagon like that.

This doesn't help your case at all.

Yeah it does, it disproves what you were saying initially.

I didn't see the mod's post. People miss posts all the time. It's not alignment indicative.

When it pertains to your top scumread, it sort of is.

No it doesn't. This is actually your stupidest point. It's not like posts that contain "thegooner" are highlighted or something. I missed the damn post. It's not scummy. You are reaching like crazy here.

P-edit: Good Pappa.

[Elyse]

nacho's case seems abstract, Elyse gives me an overrall more town feel.

My case is that Elyse suspicions on Gooner and Future were both opportunistic. In the first, Slandaar attacked Gooner because of his vote on Elyse, and Elyse latched onto a strong player and sheeped him. In the second, Future got a sizeable wagon on him, Elyse called Baezu (who was trying to lynch future) scummy because of his attack, then suddenly Future joins Elyse's suspect list for no reason.

I entered the game sick. I wasn't there at the very beginning. I noticed thegooner's weird vote. So did Slandaar. That's all. You are misrepping me saying that I called Baezu scummy. I said she seemed bloodthirsty. I already explained that Future was scummy to me and the first time I mentioned it is when you said I was just hopping on other people's reads.

Next, Elyse has apparently had a townread on Nachopappa, which contradicts her gooner scumread, and apparently has had a scumread on me for a while. The scumread on me came up after she was questioned about me, and the townread on Nachopappa came up after I asked her why she dropped her Gooner scumread. I don't like the timing of either of them.

I don't have a townread on Nachopappa. I said his entrance seemed townish. He's null right now. And yeah it contradicts my gooner scumread. I'm sorry that he's not scummy too? How is changing my read scummy? Wouldn't it be scummier if I continued saying that Nachopappa was scummy when he wasn't? Also, my scumread on you started from your unexplained votes and bad attitude towards me pressing you for information.

Then there's her posturing to jump on wagons with potshots, hypocrisy, lynching a lesser scumread with a bigger wagon because she feels one player she doesn't suspect is avoiding the wagon... It's not abstract at all. Hard to follow since the case has come through bickering walls, but certainly not abstract. Why do you disagree?

Nice buzzwords. Now "potshots" aren't what I was doing, and I never "postured to jump on a wagon" with them. You have been more hypocritical than me, and Darthe avoiding the Future wagon was just an additional reason to lynch Future, not the main one. Stop misrepping.

[Grimgroove]

@Nachopappa: if you want to be offended, please be so for the right reasons. I never called your efforts in catching up and putting dollar signs next to posts cowdung. I called it not easy to work with for other playyers, because 1. your reasons for the signs are not clarified, 2. the leap from signs to conclusions is unclear.

What I did call cowdung was this:

Grimgroove, I'm not known to make sense.

Honestly, I'm having a hell of a fun time in this game mostly because I love playing with Nacho. And he's right, I hate playing scum - especially around him - I'd be super paranoid and I'd lurk like crazy. One of our completed games is an example. If I'm playing without him and I'm scum, I might give an effort for a while until all my deceiving energies are gone, but eventually, rather quickly, the effort would just fizzle out because I hate it just that much. Normally, it is just not in my heart to make an effort to be so deceitful for an extended period of time. Moreso if people I'm familiar with are around.

And I gave you the reasons why I called it that. I realize you don't like walls, but don't read diagonally and get all offended on me for no reason.

[Grimgroove]

@Grim

Your case on Ztife is basically what you accused Nacho of doing to me. You said, "Making a case against one person is easy. You ISO them, you nitpcik on their posts, put everything in a bad light, and put the attention on them."

Moreover, if you think that me vs Nacho is town vs scum, then you should really be on one of us rather than creating a new wagon. Also, can you explain this link between me, Darthe, and Ztife you keep mentioning?

Yes, I was expecting this thing in bold, and I'll give you several reasons why it's not the same:

1. I never tunneled solely on Ztife.
2. My comments are not nitpicky. They are statements about the essence of his posts, not about choices of words.
3. If you feel I put everything Ztife said in a bad light, feel free to put it under a good light.

I explained why I don't feel like joining either the Nachowagon or the elyse wagon right now, no reason to reiterate this question. Why is everyone acting like those two wagons are final? There's still time to get a Ztife-lynch. And even if there isn't, I wouldn't want to pass off the chance to put Ztife in the spotlight just because there's something else going on as well. If not today, I hope my case will be referred to during Day 2.

Like I said, if push comes to shove, I will lynch you Elyse. Or maybe Nachomamma, depending on how he asnwers my questions/requests. But I prefer the Ztife lynch because I got a firmer read on that guy, with less other players complicating things. My read on you and Nachomamma is being blurried by Nachomamma and you, as well as Ztife and Darthe's stances.