Mini 1490 - Chef Mafia (Game Over!)

[Porochaz]

PeaceBringer (2) - thenewearth, Porochaz
Amrun (0) -
thenewearth (6) - Pyrotechnics, Jake, d3x, Amrun, The Slovak Prince, Peacebringer
Kthxbye (0) -
The Slovak Prince (0) -
d3x (0) -
Kyubey (0) -
Jake from State Farm (0) -
Rank (0) -
Porochaz (0) -
trebuchet tabby
Pyrotechnics

Not Voting (4): Kyubey, Rank, trebuchet tabby, Kthxbye

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.


kthxbye is no longer able to vote for this day phase.

[Porochaz]

Intent to hammer, your posting in other games, 3 days without a post in this one is not acceptable.

[PeaceBringer]

Jesus christ would you stop twisting everything I say into something different its really fucking wearing.

I need to look back anyway, I made that post whilst pissed and Im not even particularly sure it was pyro, might have been jake.

Also, not a vote was meant as it wasnt bolded so wouldnt count.

I am not twisting anything. I am dealing with the words exactly as written. You are the one twisting others words. You identify that you had the person who said it wrong. If it was jake the statement actually makes more sense. You understand our relationship and history you would understand where it is coming from. Yes, Jake did say he wouldn't vote me day 1 unlessed pressed to do so, I wouldn't either. Unless there was good reason to and vice versa. We have played a few games elsewhere and it is called "mutual respect."

[PeaceBringer]

Intent to hammer, your posting in other games, 3 days without a post in this one is not acceptable.

who pray tell are you referring to...

[PeaceBringer]

Jesus christ would you stop twisting everything I say into something different its really fucking wearing.

I need to look back anyway, I made that post whilst pissed and Im not even particularly sure it was pyro, might have been jake.

Also, not a vote was meant as it wasnt bolded so wouldnt count.

oh, and by the way, you started this with your BS.

[Porochaz]

Oh yes, I forgot mafia is about friendships in previous games, and that should influence this one, because its more about respect and less about you know, actually playing the game.

Right.

Was referring to thenewearth after all, he is the one about to be lynched. I'm letting him know that I will hammer if I need to. Its deadline, so its a given anyway, but Im making sure he knows I won't let a no-lynch go through.

[trebuchet tabby]

There are a little over 7 hours until nightfall. I'll be around today. I will vote with an hour to spare.

[PeaceBringer]

Oh yes, I forgot mafia is about friendships in previous games, and that should influence this one, because its more about respect and less about you know, actually playing the game.

Right.

Was referring to thenewearth after all, he is the one about to be lynched. I'm letting him know that I will hammer if I need to. Its deadline, so its a given anyway, but Im making sure he knows I won't let a no-lynch go through.

Yes, mafia/werewolf by and large is a game founded on relationships. You develop respect. You by an large have people that you would not necessarily vote on day one wihtout a strong reason to do so. If you say otherwise then you either lack self-insight or are a liar. You play the game, day one is the start. You have things that influence you, like you reacting to personality difference between you and me as evidenced by your statement here. Again your arrogance is showing, which you have already demonstrated masks your insecurities. And here, you now saying you are giving TNE "Fair warning." Something done out of "respect" not game play. You cannot seperate relationship and the game as this is a social game.

[Porochaz]

I am at a position no where I feel I am being too focused on one person. This is a problem going into day 2.

Unless I have missed something then I will state right now. I think there are valid points on the Peacebringer case. I don't feel they have been answered sufficiently and I do want to lynch him based on solely that. Whats more I am quite angry that he is either twisting my words or perceiving my words in a way that I am not meaning them. So I do feel there is benefit in going through two of his larger posts about me, at least for him, in the hope we can understand each other better.

As a bit of my own self meta, that I would say doesn't vary with alignment, others may argue that of course, I am an "old school" player, I have rules that are a little flexible but not greatly, these have worked amazingly in the past, outing an entire scum team but at other times have failed miserably, losing games on something stupid. I generally hate day 1, I become more active in later days (unless I burn myself out).

I don't like lurkers, active lurkers especially, like tne. Its why Im not totally opposed to this deadline lynch.
Self meta is one of my biggest hates as you have probably guessed. Do I find it scummy? Repeated use, yes.
I don't like soft claims, town fakeclaims and Im quite happy with the whole LAL thing.

Moving on...

The problem I have with you, is that you are a very self-meta player. I view any defence like that as nil. Ive already said, you know your meta, you can change your meta. Its why Im not a fan of Jakes reluctance to vote you on that basis. However that more of a negative on him than you.

Post 622, the first quote is an example...

It is not about the neighbor, it is about taking a post of someone else who viewed as a crumb and reacting to its as an outing.

You think if I were scum I would react in such a manner, seriously?

You think I am a noob to have such a reaction. Now that blantant crumb that stood out to me like a Red Neon sign resulted in a WTF reaction. That is it. You can argue null on it perhaps and only because you do not know me. THat was a genuine response.

I haven't played you before, but I see this as an example of if any other player had said the underlined I would have been okay with it. You're commenting on your own behaviour here. If someone else had said it, it might be a point in your favour, like, why would you react like that? With you saying it, its got a lot more WIFOM in there, and relies on me having a knowledge of you that I dont have.

Personally, I missed the crumbs so to me it looks like you outted it. If you are town, do you see where my problem lies with that situation? I didn't see it a red neon sign, I still don't. Maybe its worth asking other players.

Other players, did you see the neighbour softclaim?

Im looking at the strawman thing and Im wondering if the main problem I have with you is a playstyle clash. My play is largely based around making cases, thinking people are scummy for playing a certain way. You are reactions based, I would disagree that you post a lot of one-liners. We are obviously both quite aggressive players. I think from my point of view, I have to believe that the way you talk to other players is your playstyle and selfmeta is a part of that and not something scummy. However, Im not going to pass off things as votes which aren't explained etc. as not scummy, because I do find that scummy.

The case which I have been basing part of my case on, is from newearth, ironically, re-reading it, Im less happy with it. There are a few things I don't like still. When did you think RVS ended? Would be quite interested in your reads?

The attitude was me referring to your whole game attitude, not saying you had attitude.

yet in this game you have only pointed at me for such behavior. And by and a large you make it so you can dismiss what anyone says of there behavor.

Im not sure I understand. Who else would you say has been relying heavily on self meta?

TNE case, looking back, does look like a little bit of butt-hurt. He brings up a few points though, that I don't feel should be ignored. I do react to things like fishing etc, because thats the way I play, like self meta is obviously the way you play. I find your playstyle scummy, its the only reason Im going after you but if there is a way I can determine that for sure, whilst laying off of you for a bit, then Ill go that way.

I apologise for taking your initial schtick the wrong way, I also apologise if you think I have been attacking you on the basis of prior altercations, I don't think I have, I think its been a playstyle clash. I hope that you will take the time to answer my questions and that we can have a more productive relationship within this game. (or I vote you again for being scum)

I will still go over the other post. But not just now.

[Porochaz]

I am at a position no where I feel I am being too focused on one person. This is a problem going into day 2.

Unless I have missed something then I will state right now. I think there are valid points on the Peacebringer case. I don't feel they have been answered sufficiently and I do want to lynch him based on solely that. Whats more I am quite angry that he is either twisting my words or perceiving my words in a way that I am not meaning them. So I do feel there is benefit in going through two of his larger posts about me, at least for him, in the hope we can understand each other better.

As a bit of my own self meta, that I would say doesn't vary with alignment, others may argue that of course, I am an "old school" player, I have rules that are a little flexible but not greatly, these have worked amazingly in the past, outing an entire scum team but at other times have failed miserably, losing games on something stupid. I generally hate day 1, I become more active in later days (unless I burn myself out).

I don't like lurkers, active lurkers especially, like tne. Its why Im not totally opposed to this deadline lynch.
Self meta is one of my biggest hates as you have probably guessed. Do I find it scummy? Repeated use, yes.
I don't like soft claims, town fakeclaims and Im quite happy with the whole LAL thing.

Moving on...

The problem I have with you, is that you are a very self-meta player. I view any defence like that as nil. Ive already said, you know your meta, you can change your meta. Its why Im not a fan of Jakes reluctance to vote you on that basis. However that more of a negative on him than you.

Post 622, the first quote is an example...

It is not about the neighbor, it is about taking a post of someone else who viewed as a crumb and reacting to its as an outing.

You think if I were scum I would react in such a manner, seriously?

You think I am a noob to have such a reaction. Now that blantant crumb that stood out to me like a Red Neon sign resulted in a WTF reaction. That is it. You can argue null on it perhaps and only because you do not know me. THat was a genuine response.

I haven't played you before, but I see this as an example of if any other player had said the underlined I would have been okay with it. You're commenting on your own behaviour here. If someone else had said it, it might be a point in your favour, like, why would you react like that? With you saying it, its got a lot more WIFOM in there, and relies on me having a knowledge of you that I dont have.

Personally, I missed the crumbs so to me it looks like you outted it. If you are town, do you see where my problem lies with that situation? I didn't see it a red neon sign, I still don't. Maybe its worth asking other players.

Other players, did you see the neighbour softclaim?

Im looking at the strawman thing and Im wondering if the main problem I have with you is a playstyle clash. My play is largely based around making cases, thinking people are scummy for playing a certain way. You are reactions based, I would disagree that you post a lot of one-liners. We are obviously both quite aggressive players. I think from my point of view, I have to believe that the way you talk to other players is your playstyle and selfmeta is a part of that and not something scummy. However, Im not going to pass off things as votes which aren't explained etc. as not scummy, because I do find that scummy.

The case which I have been basing part of my case on, is from newearth, ironically, re-reading it, Im less happy with it. There are a few things I don't like still. When did you think RVS ended? Would be quite interested in your reads?

The attitude was me referring to your whole game attitude, not saying you had attitude.

yet in this game you have only pointed at me for such behavior. And by and a large you make it so you can dismiss what anyone says of there behavor.

Im not sure I understand. Who else would you say has been relying heavily on self meta?

TNE case, looking back, does look like a little bit of butt-hurt. He brings up a few points though, that I don't feel should be ignored. I do react to things like fishing etc, because thats the way I play, like self meta is obviously the way you play. I find your playstyle scummy, its the only reason Im going after you but if there is a way I can determine that for sure, whilst laying off of you for a bit, then Ill go that way.

I apologise for taking your initial schtick the wrong way, I also apologise if you think I have been attacking you on the basis of prior altercations, I don't think I have, I think its been a playstyle clash. I hope that you will take the time to answer my questions and that we can have a more productive relationship within this game. (or I vote you again for being scum)

I will still go over the other post. But not just now.

[Porochaz]

Oh yes, I forgot mafia is about friendships in previous games, and that should influence this one, because its more about respect and less about you know, actually playing the game.

Right.

Was referring to thenewearth after all, he is the one about to be lynched. I'm letting him know that I will hammer if I need to. Its deadline, so its a given anyway, but Im making sure he knows I won't let a no-lynch go through.

Yes, mafia/werewolf by and large is a game founded on relationships. You develop respect. You by an large have people that you would not necessarily vote on day one wihtout a strong reason to do so. If you say otherwise then you either lack self-insight or are a liar. You play the game, day one is the start. You have things that influence you, like you reacting to personality difference between you and me as evidenced by your statement here. Again your arrogance is showing, which you have already demonstrated masks your insecurities. And here, you now saying you are giving TNE "Fair warning." Something done out of "respect" not game play. You cannot seperate relationship and the game as this is a social game.

Goddamn these double posts. Sorry, I dont know how to stop it.

I disagree with your point. Face 2 face mafia is a slightly different beast, but at the recent meet, I sat next to a guy named Patrick for a large amount of games. I know Patrick better than most of the other people at the meet, I know how he plays, I know that if he is scum in lylo, he will win. That said, just because I know him better than the others there, doesn't mean that will stop me voting him later on even if its for something minor. And god knows he loves voting me day 1 "just for the fucking hell of it".

I am not afraid to lynch someone I know or respect on day 1, I'd hope the same would be said for others playing me. Again this comes down to me looking at people fishing, how people react to votes etc.

And as for the fair warning thing, Id say that to anyone. Im looking for a claim and if he posts without one, or within this situation leaves it too long, I will lynch him. It has nothing to do with respect, as I say, I know him about as well as I know you. Less even, because he hasnt really taken much part in this game.

[PeaceBringer]

Regards post 734Thanks, for the more reasonable approach. I also do not want to be focused on tearing into what I feel are hypocritical posting and constantly examining your behavior at the expense of the game. I will disengage that action now in hopes of more reasoned discussion.
FYI-there does exist a way to check on "how I play" barring signing up for other sites. I have some record here and while it is a long time ago, there is a record outside of what I have to say. You refer to things such as "self meta" as scummy. Yet, by and large it is nil. Scum by and large may or may not engage in it. So that is your personal preference not a behavior that scum would do over and above non-scum. You will also find that the "heavy self-meta" here is trying to explain things to people who otherwise may just choose to wagon me because yes I am aggressive. I also am intutioin and reaction based. I hate lurkers and day one. So we agree on that. I find the LAL thing to be faulty premise and despise the premise. (part of why I left) I don't mind soft claims or fake claims or anything else that can be used to get separation and be able to sort out who is and who is not in the informed minority.

[PeaceBringer]

734 We can disagree. Yes, face to face is different as you have non-verbal tells and other relational elements. FYI- a bit more explanation on the relational. While Jake and I have played toghether before, this is 1st game in a couple of years. In this game I had no intent till see more of voting him. He maybe the same, I cannot speak for him. I came here to be able to play with him. So not "voting day one" is just a relational thing. Give me more signs that he is scum and will jump on him. Now I have fished his reactions and exchanges, of course he knows what I am doing as well. We are probably feeling out. He is doing far less fishing than I am used to but I yet cannot call him scummy for it. I did let him know I have some concerns. Now, I can be entirely wrong on my takes and game. I tend to be reactionary at time, as seen by the "neighbor outing" and thought something was more obvious than was, as when I reread it to explain it was not quite as clear. Now, sure I can make statements about it. I was not the first. When ever you defend your self you have options. Go on an attack (kind of like what I did with your posts), avoid it, or find some way to navigate it without aggression or avoidance. Any which action can be done by scum or non-scum. It is the greater relational and emotive and other content that ultimately determine things from my point of view. You may have another one.

[PeaceBringer]

jeez, now I double posted...lol

[PeaceBringer]

noppe, just the wrong post. Post 737 should refer to post 735

[PeaceBringer]

also prozac- by way of explanation, I don't like explaining my votes and other elements because it expains what I am looking at. Also I play with people who normally do not which can be seen in that passive aggressive copy and past of a game page at where I play werewolf (packmentality.net). Night and day difference.

[PeaceBringer]

Oh and as to "twisting words" it is a matter of perception. What I respond to is my perception at the time of writing and how in "interpret" what is being said. Much like in a moment I take something to be obvious that really wasn't. That is my perception in the moment. Your perception that I meant more then "schtick" with the opening vote is your perception. It is flawed, but it is the perception none the less. Adding in "twisted" means a purposeful misrepresentation of the facts. Also known as "spin". I have been sharing my genuine perceptions, you of course can perceive to be spin. All I can do is explain to alter perception and vice versa.

[PeaceBringer]

Now Prozac what you refer to as a self-meta, can be argued is by an large either an attempt as town to explain and alter mis-perceptions. Now if done by scum, it is done with intent to manipulate perceptions. IT is a tool, now you can certainly not like the tool and argue against it. However, pointing to someone as engaging in "self-meta" and therefore needing to be ignore or scummy is by and large a strawman set up and then lived by. Same issue I have with that I have with "lynch all liars" as it reduces the tools that can be used.

[Alton Brown]

Votecount 1.16

thenewearth (6) - Pyrotechnics, Jake from State Farm, d3x, Amrun, The Slovak Prince
PeaceBringer (2) - thenewearth, Porochaz
Amrun (0) -
PeaceBringer
Kthxbye (0) -
The Slovak Prince (0) -
d3x (0) -
Kyubey (0) -
Jake from State Farm (0) -
Rank (0) -
Porochaz (0) -
trebuchet tabby
Pyrotechnics

Not Voting (4): Kyubey, Rank, trebuchet tabby,

Kthxbye

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-08-31 19:03:38).

kthxbye is no longer able to vote for this day phase.

thenewearth has requested replacement. Searching for a replacement. (Deadline will not be extended.)

[Porochaz]

The other post I was going to comment on - (650)

31 - Made me laugh, you have a point.
110 - That post had nothing to do with you, I was more commenting on his playstyle he had shown up until that post rather than the vote itself. A blanket statement with no real reason behind it.
113 - I think your being unfair, nowhere do I say my play is the best play in the world, I've lost too many games for that to be true. I need reasoning, without it this stops being mafia and turns into a popularity contest. I dont need everyone to "be me".
193/194 - You asked for a claim ridiculously early. 193 is a valid point.
417 - 11 posts in a row is ridiculous for anyone!
488 - I think Im terrible at this game and am frequently doubting myself I dont understand where your opinion is coming from, I guess the condensation is the way your reading my posts. Im not meaning to be.
517 - Its fair enough, I work, Im not able to post some times. It was purely a prod avoider.

[PeaceBringer]

The other post I was going to comment on - (650)

31 - Made me laugh, you have a point.
110 - That post had nothing to do with you, I was more commenting on his playstyle he had shown up until that post rather than the vote itself. A blanket statement with no real reason behind it.
113 - I think your being unfair, nowhere do I say my play is the best play in the world, I've lost too many games for that to be true. I need reasoning, without it this stops being mafia and turns into a popularity contest. I dont need everyone to "be me".
193/194 - You asked for a claim ridiculously early. 193 is a valid point.
417 - 11 posts in a row is ridiculous for anyone!
488 - I think Im terrible at this game and am frequently doubting myself I dont understand where your opinion is coming from, I guess the condensation is the way your reading my posts. Im not meaning to be.
517 - Its fair enough, I work, Im not able to post some times. It was purely a prod avoider.

FYI- I was making general comments on your play and posting, not your comments toward me. And yes, you do come off as arrogant and condescending.

[PeaceBringer]

The other post I was going to comment on - (650)

31 - Made me laugh, you have a point.
110 - That post had nothing to do with you, I was more commenting on his playstyle he had shown up until that post rather than the vote itself. A blanket statement with no real reason behind it.
113 - I think your being unfair, nowhere do I say my play is the best play in the world, I've lost too many games for that to be true. I need reasoning, without it this stops being mafia and turns into a popularity contest. I dont need everyone to "be me".
193/194 - You asked for a claim ridiculously early. 193 is a valid point.
417 - 11 posts in a row is ridiculous for anyone!
488 - I think Im terrible at this game and am frequently doubting myself I dont understand where your opinion is coming from, I guess the condensation is the way your reading my posts. Im not meaning to be.
517 - Its fair enough, I work, Im not able to post some times. It was purely a prod avoider.

FYI- I was making general comments on your play and posting, not your comments toward me. And yes, you do come off as arrogant and condescending.

of course that being said, when pissed off I may perceive things more "condescending" than they actually are...

[Amrun]

Amrun.

you rang?

why does it feel like i have to count to 100 to get you to join the gam?

Is this a joke? I posted like 2 posts before you posted this.

[Amrun]

SEVEN MINUTES before, in fact.

[Rank]

Hey guys. I'm here. SORRY for dipping out for a couple of days. Looks like the deadline is in two hours. Lets do this.

VOTE: thenewearth