Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Mafia - Game Over

[Empking]

Vote: Nacho

[Empking]

Mastin: As Nat says. This is his meta.

[Empking]

Vote: Sak

[Empking]

why do you think at least 1 out of 3 of the people doing a reasonless vote are scum?

1) I said "at least"
2) I've seen 3 people drop votes on me in a rapid manner in RVS in another game and 1 of them was scum.

Wouldn't you expect that if that sort of action were null?

[Empking]

Deas: Don't worry about talah, I liked your unvote.

[Empking]

so your vote on Sakura was serious? afaik you just threw it on there with nothing else whatsoever

That wasn't what I was trying to say at all.

To answer your second question: I was expressing an opinion.

[Empking]

DRDoliitle is so thinking like a townie it is almost suspicious. His injuring the Sakura wagon isn't great though.

[Empking]

I doubt Majiffy is scum. I'm not scum, and if talah and Nat are going to baselessly wagon someone can they put pressure on Beli or Sak, please.

[Empking]

Nat: If you're going for little presence (and Maj -> me suggests that). Isn't dopog conspicuous the most likely suspect, why haven't you looked at him?

[Empking]

however, now you're implying it's not?

No. I'm just saying that in the post where you thought I was implying it was serious I was implying nothing of the sort. It is serious, but in that particular post I wasn't making an issue of it's seriousness.

[Empking]

I thought the whole point was to figure out if she's scum or not, but if that wasn't your intent when questioning her then what the hell are you trying to do? = =

To get her away from illogical thinking. (Illogic is alignment-masking.)

[Empking]

Unvote
Vote: Beli

[Empking]

Also let me ISO Sakura and rethink my read on her.

No your read on her is good.

We're never going to do better than random with a strategy of playing 'Pass the Wagon'. You can't complain about lurkers, when there's an actual group of players wrecking this game from any natural (alignment-indicative) momentum.

Maj: were you calling me town in the post you voted me?

[Empking]

I disagree. This is as natural as it gets because there are a bunch of folks either supporting votes or voting elsewhere, so there's extra initial momentum and also incentive for scum to try to slime their way onto a mislynch.

There's absolutely no reason to ' slime their way onto a mislynch' if the band of five(?) will swoop somebody else as lead wagon tomorrow.

[Empking]

Empking, why did you vote for Sakura and, later, Belisarius?

Because I find them rthe scummiest. Its mostly a strong gut feeling, but:

I just went and ISO'd you to find your question

Then how is a random vote any better?

My vote wasn't 100% random, i think at least 1 of you 3 is scum so i went ahead and picked one at random.

let's assume 5/21 mafia. then if we get 3 random people, the chance of all of them being town is (16/21) * (15/20) * (14/19) ~ 42.11%, meaning there's more than a 50% chance one out of a random group of 3 people is scum.

Quoth Thoreau, "Simplify, simplify"

The formula I've been seeing in use for determining number of scum in a nonmultiball game is scumCount = (int)(floor(playerCount / 4)), which comes to the same assumption of 5 scum, but with the simpler math, it means that one out of every

four

players is scum; a bloc of three in isolation means nothing.

If you want to try to use statistics to scumhunt, name your fourth. But really, don't use statistics to scumhunt, because that analysis means precisely bugger if this is multiball or there's a SK.

Flavour-wise, either multiball (Federation/Orb/Three Ships, ZAFT/PLANT, Blue Cosmos) or SK (Rau Le Creuset) makes sense, and if either of those are in play, then 5/21 scum is a shit assumption to make.

I think it's pretty likely this is multifaction based on my role PM.

made me first look at them. Nothing I've seen past those points have made me second guess it.

[Empking]

I doubt Majiffy is scum. I'm not scum, and if talah and Nat are going to baselessly wagon someone can they put pressure on Beli or Sak, please.

I see this.

And what does that remind you of?

[Empking]

Empking, why did you vote for Sakura and, later, Belisarius?

Because I find them rthe scummiest. Its mostly a strong gut feeling, but:

I just went and ISO'd you to find your question

Then how is a random vote any better?

My vote wasn't 100% random, i think at least 1 of you 3 is scum so i went ahead and picked one at random.

made me first look at them. Nothing I've seen past those points have made me second guess it.

Sakura's post was illogical, yes, but you said illogic was alignment masking earlier. How did you get a gut scum reaction based on an illogical post in that case?

Theres nothing illogical in that post, and if you think there is its becausd you're bringing your prejudices from later in the game.

[Empking]

levi, we need to talk.

This post. I've been trying to put my finger on what annoys about this post, but I can't. However it certainly annoys.

[Empking]

Unvote
Vote: Pie

Maj makes good points.

[Empking]

you said this post was illogical. this directly implies that other post is illogical cause this post is her reasoning for the other post

That's post 123. The other post is 99. What comes first? [Unless, you're genuinely claiming to have psychic powers that allowed you to independently discover the meaning of 99 which happened to match 123]. The phrase 'bad logic is alignment masking' was almost made for situations like this where someone does something off, and then goes 'badlogic'.

[Empking]

That's post 123. The other post is 99. What comes first? [Unless, you're genuinely claiming to have psychic powers that allowed you to independently discover the meaning of 99 which happened to match 123]. The phrase 'bad logic is alignment masking' was almost made for situations like this where someone does something off, and then goes 'badlogic'.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything, and instead see a scumpainting attempt. this is what happened:
Sakura makes post 99, which you claim here that there's "nothing illogical" in. Then you question her in in this post, which you claim here is to get her away from illogical thinking. This implies the logic in the post you were questioning her in is illogical, which, since it was the reasoning for post 99, makes post 99 illogical by extension. This contradicts the first link where you say it's not illogical. Which one came first doesn't matter, what matters is that you're BS'ing your way through D1.[/quote]
You keep onsayingthat the logic for post 99 was in a later pos, but your repeated repetitions does not make that any more true. Unless you can provide any evidince other than Sak's word when presured then you're clearly not being sincere.

Naco: the misrep point I thouhht wss specially good.
Nacho: His point abouy Pie being

[Empking]

[Vote: Pie

Mastin looked like scum to me so I'm think town-motivated kill*.

* But nor the sort of kill designed to look town-motivated.

[Empking]

I think AA9 is right about this being a wagon of lazy scum. I've no idea who the scum are, but I think Day One wagon analysis will be fruitful in future days.

[Empking]

Still want to lynch Pie.

[Empking]

Vote: Pie

[Empking]

Nat is probably scum. Pie might actually be scum with him.

[Empking]

Empking, why didn't you vote them then?

I am.

[Empking]

Nat is probably scum. Pie might actually be scum with him.

You're buying into that shit too?

It doesn't impact my vote (I voted him for being a SK), but I can't say I'd be shocked if he flipped mafia either.

[Empking]

Not always. Some times town are able to work together and benefit from the leashed SK. But sometimes people just like to yell and try to get their own way. Depends. In mafiastuck, the SK claimed to be a vig day one and wanted to be directed. We realized he was the SK pretty soon though and even though he never admitted it, we still leashed him and he took direction from a strong town core. We won that game because we were able to use the SK to kill the mafia that the rest of town wouldn't lynch.

There is not a strong town core in this game. I'm not sure if the scum are all sticking together, but if not then there's player's such as Nat who are like marmite. If we 'leash' Pie then our best case situation is that he's mafia who will do what a fellow Mafiaso suggests in thread. If he is a Serial Killer then he'll kill the AA9s of the world under the orders of scum. Either way town loses.

[Empking]

Keeping Pie alive means a destruction of days, or less discussion. What ever you believe theres no town motivation for wanting that.

[Empking]

Kira Yamato, Freedom Gundam, JOAT - Follow, Jailkeep, Vanilla mobile suit abilities. In addition once in the game something can happen to make all my slots will refresh themselves. That occurred at the end of day one. I didn't use anything yesterday due to a lack of decent targets.

PEdit: He was pushed to a claim, otherwise he'd have been lynched. Now scum and bad town are letting him live in order to kill other bad town.

[Empking]

That doesn't make sense. Your abilites refreshed when you hadn't even used them?

Yes. Its almost as if lynching DrD rather than claimed scum on day one was a bad idea.

[Empking]

And you had all that power and didn't think jailkeeping the SK or following him was a good idea. I call bullshit.

How would follow help in the least? How would following a publicly claimed SK help at all. Even if he is group scum, it seems likely that'll he'll send the kill. How can you support the SK being alive and then want him Jailkept. Surely even you and the Sak's of this game can see that

that

would be entirely pointless.

(If my third power wasn't clear. I'll permanently get rid of mobile suit powers; so leaving any other powers fine.)

PEDit: I'd hope that if I survived I'd have better things to use the JK on.

[Empking]

Not at all.

Even let's suppose I am wrong, why didn't Empking vanillize the sk?

He'd claimed investigative immunity. He'd also claimed SK. Why would I care to get rid of the claimed SK's investigative immunity when he had already claimed. I think its important to note that the 'PIe might be group scum' discovery occurred in day two.

P-Edit: Follow, Jailkeep, Vanillise is not that good a set of powers. I'd rather be a non-consecutive tracker.

[Empking]

He'd claimed investigative immunity. He'd also claimed SK. Why would I care to get rid of the claimed SK's investigative immunity when he had already claimed. I think its important to note that the 'PIe might be group scum' discovery occurred in day two.

No, it was partially the consideration that he could be group-scum that forced his hand on claiming SK. That was Day 1.

Yes, and the claim temporary got rid of the suspicion he was group scum. Or are you saying you still think he's group scum?

P-Edit: Follow, Jailkeep, Vanillise is not that good a set of powers. I'd rather be a non-consecutive tracker.

If you knew there was an event that could reset your abilities, you would have started burning your abilities immediately.

On Night Zero?

PEdit: So you'd make the claimed SK lose his investigative immunity. If you think that's the best use of the vanillase, and you might be right, then it really isn't a strong power.

[Empking]

Vanillaize would make the sk stop killing presmably and have to lynch everyone.

No. You'd assume that a Serial Killer's kill goes beyond what can be vanillaised.

[Empking]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vanillaiser

Vanillaisers remove power. Logically that is he Sks kill ability.

No logically the kill of part of being the serial killer faction, and Vanillaisers don't rid factional powers.

[Empking]

PV, please hammer Empking after Talah responds.

Empking, took you a long time to come up with that.

Not as long as it took you to come up with this.

The SK is a faction of one. Do you really think that the investigation immune is role specific but the kill is faction oriented?

Yes. That's the sensible case.

Did you even ask?

No.

MOd: Assuming there is a serial killer in this game, are you willing to answer details about the Serial Killer's role PM?

[Empking]

You theoretically may have had the ability to neuter the SK an you didn't ask. What the fuck?

Why are you letting him live. If you don't want him to kill? (I don't have the theoretically ability to neuter the SK since his kill obviously isn't going to be able to be vanillaised since that's an insane design choice.)

Talah: I'm not contradicting myself. I thought he was a SK yesterday. (Paraphrased the activation is: Your [Ability's Name] has been activated.)

[Empking]

Avoiding the question of "when" you were notified?

At the end of the day/start of night. I said before that I hope there'd be more useful things to use a JK on.