Newbie 1441 (Game Over)

[TRG]

I had many reasons for my vote on TRG. I like to place my vote on the person I find most suspicious, and that was TRG. (Ellipses are a scum tell...) Also, I thought that placing a third vote might help us get out of RVS which is terrible and which I hate. Also I wanted to see how everyone would react if I put a third vote on with zero reasoning. (Not a reaction test on TRG specifically, more a general stirring of the pot.) And also I wanted to make a pedagogical point about the difference between weird and scum, which I've already explained.

Fair enough (took you long enough). What's your response to Ravenpaw's post #33? He told us he should be able to read you well since you two were previously scum buddies. You think you can read him as well?

VOTE: Frettory

Only person who has yet to post. If he's scum he needs to be lynched. If he's town he's not helping. Either way I'm gonna need him to step it up.

[TRG]

@anyone

What is an ellipse exactly? Never heard that term before.

[Ravenpaw]

In the meantime

Vote: SecondEngineer

I didn't like your justification of your use of the sarcasm tag.

Please allow me to give you a better justification. After writing Post #12 and rereading it, the post sounded a little rude. So, I threw in a sarcasm tag at the very end of the post. I had qualms about putting the tag right after my vote, however, because I didn't want to be unclear about whether or not I made the sarcastic vote. I thought having a sarcasm tag directly after my vote would be confusing.

The feeling I'm getting from this whole thing is that you were self-conscious about your vote and took great lengths to try and make it blend in.
How did it sound rude? Without the tag it would've read like this:

This is near perfect reasoning. No denying it. I have to vote with you.

VOTE: TRG

That doesn't read as rude to me, just a normal random vote.

I disagree on this. Taking us out of RVS is protown, not anti-town.

Like I've said for the 10th time now it's not the vote it's the way he dropped it without saying anything else.

That wasn’t my point. You acussed Nom of being anti-town by taking us out of RVS, which is wrong.

As Nominull never explained his vote, how can you know he was being serious about it?

I. Don't. Know.

Maybe that's why I've been grilling him so hard to try and get an explanation for the entirety of this game as of now?

You said in post #24 it was serious. Why didn't you ask first if it was a serious vote or a random vote? Instead you just jumped to the conclusion that he was serious, and as Nom left no reason I was curious to why you said that.

Okay sorry about spamming the thread, but I keep going away and coming back and seeing something else that catches my eye.

We need more activity overall guys. Remember more posting = more information

More information = more opportunities to catch scum.

I don't know how to feel about this post. I greatly dislike when people don't post either, but the game has literally just started today.

Wasn't even directed towards anyone it was just a general rule of thumb. How is trying to persuade people to post more a bad thing?

This is huge misrep. I never said it was a bad thing. I said I didn’t know how I felt about your post. And then I gave my reasons. Given you’ve played a game before you must be aware of how slow forum mafia games work yeah? That’s why it was odd to make a call out for more activity when the game was just a few hours old.
Also saying that it wasn't even directed towards anyone is a lie; you specifically said "We need more activity overall guys" which is a direction towards everyone and anyone.

Why are you being so defensive over Nominull in general?

How am I being defensive over him? You were throwing out assumptions that needed to have the truth driven into them.

He was your previous scum buddy eh? That's good info to know. You two know how to operate together.

This made me lol. No we don’t. I spent 3 whole game days bussing the heck out of him. We were atrocious together.
But like I said it's given me an insight into how he operates as scum (and vice versa).

That either makes you two huge allies or huge threats but only time will tell.

What does this even mean? Nom and I are threats to each other? We’re allies? What?

[Ravenpaw]

Wow we have an '02er here, that's pretty cool.

Hey everyone.
I have good news, Nom and I were recently scumbuddies in a game so it gave me a pretty good insight to how he operates as scum, so if he's scum here I should be able to pick up on it easily enough. Unless of course he's decided to change his meta since then, but we'll see.

In the meantime

Vote: SecondEngineer

I didn't like your justification of your use of the sarcasm tag.

If you aren't familiar with me as town, how do you hope to distinguish?

A feeling mostly, also when we played together and I was hard bussing you I did look at a few of your town games (I needed to prepare myself).

So you wanted to devolve yourself of responsibility?

Yes. I wanted to devolve myself of responsibility in the same way you devolved responsibility in vote #6 by claiming Ravenclaw is the best. It was all in fun during the RVS stage.

This is bad. The conversation about your vote doesn't compare to Jacob's at all.

I had many reasons for my vote on TRG. I like to place my vote on the person I find most suspicious, and that was TRG. (Ellipses are a scum tell...) Also, I thought that placing a third vote might help us get out of RVS which is terrible and which I hate. Also I wanted to see how everyone would react if I put a third vote on with zero reasoning. (Not a reaction test on TRG specifically, more a general stirring of the pot.) And also I wanted to make a pedagogical point about the difference between weird and scum, which I've already explained.

Fair enough (took you long enough). What's your response to Ravenpaw's post #33? He told us he should be able to read you well since you two were previously scum buddies. You think you can read him as well?

*she.

[Ravenpaw]

@TRG- what do you think of Secondengineer so far?

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.2

TRG (3):

JacobSavage, SecondEngineer, Nominull

Nominull (2):

Drake Crusader, Spaces

Drake Crusader (1):

Tigris

SecondEngineer (1):

Ravenpaw

Frettory (1):

TRG

No Vote (1):

Frettory

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Wednesday, October 30, at 3:30 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2013-10-30 15:30:00).

[Tigris]

Frettory was replaced in only other game on this site on the first day, so chances are will be replaced here.

UNVOTE: drake crusader

VOTE: second engineer

Do seem nervous about initial vote and subsequent explanations seem nervous as well, so seems like an avenue worth pursuing at this phase of the game.

[Nominull]

@anyone

What is an ellipse exactly? Never heard that term before.

An ellipsis is a series of three dots ("...") used to indicate words that have been left out. Like so...

[Drake Crusader]

A question to anyone who can answer: How do you know that we are out of RVS ? Was something done that I missed that symbols that RVS is over? Or do you just figure now that we are 2 pages into the game that it is time to end it ?

What qualifies as RVS is pretty subjective but for the most part you can tell it's over once a) someone drops a serious vote that isn't entirely random or b) people get an early wagon going (intentionally piling votes on one person as a means of performing some early game wagon analysis).

How long RVS lasts usually depends on the group of players. Some games can enter/exit RVS in a matter of minutes while others can drag for a while.

I personally assumed RVS was over once Null dropped his vote on me since it seemed as if he legitimately wanted to get an early wagon going against me.

Alright! So everyone kinda gets a for when we are out of RVS. In this game I would say we are out of RVS now. Thanks for clearing it up!!
In a few games I looked over people claimed roles during the first day. Would this be a sign of RVS ending just due to the fact they claimed a role?
Just trying to get a feel on how to distinguish RVS to a non-RVS vote.

I had many reasons for my vote on TRG. I like to place my vote on the person I find most suspicious, and that was TRG. (Ellipses are a scum tell...) Also, I thought that placing a third vote might help us get out of RVS which is terrible and which I hate. Also I wanted to see how everyone would react if I put a third vote on with zero reasoning. (Not a reaction test on TRG specifically, more a general stirring of the pot.) And also I wanted to make a pedagogical point about the difference between weird and scum, which I've already explained.

I kinda see what you wanted to achieve! I want to believe that this reaction test ties into your post that I last quoted. I was reading your other games where you seem to play this way all the time. I kinda feel that after that post you are not really a mafia member. Thank's for leading me on!

UNVOTE

I feel as my vote on Nominull no longer belongs. Understanding that a unvote is not necessary is it a good practice to unvote after RVS or just leave it on the person until you find someone else ?

So you wanted to devolve yourself of responsibility?

Yes. I wanted to devolve myself of responsibility in the same way you devolved responsibility in vote #6 by claiming Ravenclaw is the best. It was all in fun during the RVS stage.

By shedding all responsibility aren't you just trying to throw this all under the rug ? Now that RVS is over...(I believe it is at least) What do you bring to the table ? It appears nothing which could suggest that you have something to hide from us!

I would like to also hear from Frettory... OR his replacement. Kinda feel like I am on to something with the "role-no-one-wants"!

[Zaicon]

Montosh replaces Frettory.

[Montosh]

Frettory was replaced in only other game on this site on the first day, so chances are will be replaced here.

UNVOTE: drake crusader

VOTE: second engineer

Do seem nervous about initial vote and subsequent explanations seem nervous as well, so seems like an avenue worth pursuing at this phase of the game.

I'm pretty new to this, and your reasoning seems sound, so:

VOTE: second engineer

[JacobSavage]

Montosh do you think Tigris is town?

[Montosh]

I see nothing that would indicate what he is.

[Drake Crusader]

I don't really know how to feel about the jump in and vote on second ! I know I am not a fan of him however, it makes me feel every more uneasy of Montosh's slot! With that being said I shall go with my first pick and give Second a chance to post before I vote him. I have looked over enough games to know that L-1 is a bad spot to be in. So until comes on I shall

FOS:SecondEngineer

[Montosh]

Looking over all this, I fell I may have jumped the gun a bit, so for now:

UNVOTE: second engineer

[Ravenpaw]

@Nominull- you didn't answer TRG's question. Also what are your thoughts on Second?

Looking over all this, I fell I may have jumped the gun a bit, so for now:

UNVOTE: second engineer

How do you mean you jumped the gun?

[Spaces]

I think that the point about Engineer paying too much attention to how he was coming off with the whole sarcasm tag holds merit. Choosing your words so very carefully does speak of someone who might have something to hide.

This weekend, however, I'm out of town, and the hotel internet isn't working! So I'd like to UNVOTE: for now, and I'll look at the arguments a little more closely when I get home on Monday.

[SecondEngineer]

Forgive me if I seem a little nervous. I've been pretty excited to play a game of online mafia. From what I've learned about this game it seems to be entirely about diplomacy and mind games. If I'm nervous, it's because I'm not really sure how to do this diplomacy very well yet (but I want to, hence the carefully thought out words). I'm doing my best to truly explain all of thought processes. I'm trying to give you all every opportunity to get into my head; to reveal as much as I can.

As I said, I'm very excited to be playing, and as it's my first time, I think nervousness should be expected. So the fact that many of you have found me nervous, in my opinion, proves that I've been quite open.

[SecondEngineer]

I'm not saying that because I'm nervous I'm not scum. That would be poor reasoning. All I'm trying to say is that I'm trying to be open, which is something I don't think scum would do.

[Nominull]

Forgive me if I seem a little nervous. I've been pretty excited to play a game of online mafia. From what I've learned about this game it seems to be entirely about diplomacy and mind games. If I'm nervous, it's because I'm not really sure how to do this diplomacy very well yet (but I want to, hence the carefully thought out words). I'm doing my best to truly explain all of thought processes. I'm trying to give you all every opportunity to get into my head; to reveal as much as I can.

As I said, I'm very excited to be playing, and as it's my first time, I think nervousness should be expected. So the fact that many of you have found me nervous, in my opinion, proves that I've been quite open.

There are three aspects to the game of mafia - analysis, deception, and persuasion. Diplomacy is persuasion, deception is mind games, but analysis is important too. At least, it's important if you're town! Deception is less important for townies, analysis is less important for mafia.

[Montosh]

@Nominull- you didn't answer TRG's question. Also what are your thoughts on Second?

Looking over all this, I fell I may have jumped the gun a bit, so for now:

UNVOTE: second engineer

How do you mean you jumped the gun?

I voted for him with very little evidence to support it. I think being seemingly nervous isn't enough to lynch someone, and I find it doubtful that we can really justify the lynching of anyone on Day 1.

I definitely should be more careful when voting, and make sure I get it right in the future, or at least have some reason why I think that person is scum beyond "he seemed nervous". Sorry if there's any confusion.

[Tigris]

A large part of analysis for me is to find something I find curious, apply slightly more pressure, and then see how things progress. Thus giving more things to analysis (both by the person and others in response) and then go from there.

Votes aren't always intended to lead to a lynch, more often than not, they're intended to increase pressure and get more information to analyze. That and provide talking points.

Have company this weekend, so my access will be hit/miss. Hope everyone's weekend goes well.

[Ravenpaw]

@Mod- Please replace me, sorry.

[Montosh]

A large part of analysis for me is to find something I find curious, apply slightly more pressure, and then see how things progress. Thus giving more things to analysis (both by the person and others in response) and then go from there.

Votes aren't always intended to lead to a lynch, more often than not, they're intended to increase pressure and get more information to analyze. That and provide talking points.

That makes sense, but second doesn't seem to be anyone we need to pressure right IMO.

[Montosh]

This stuck out as strange to me:

I had many reasons for my vote on TRG. I like to place my vote on the person I find most suspicious, and that was TRG. (Ellipses are a scum tell...) Also, I thought that placing a third vote might help us get out of RVS which is terrible and which I hate. Also I wanted to see how everyone would react if I put a third vote on with zero reasoning. (Not a reaction test on TRG specifically, more a general stirring of the pot.) And also I wanted to make a pedagogical point about the difference between weird and scum, which I've already explained.

Which isn't really a bad explanation for your actions, but what I found strange was Ravenpaw's post earlier which said:

Hey everyone.
I have good news,

Nom and I were recently scumbuddies in a game so it gave me a pretty good insight to how he operates as scum

, so if he's scum here I should be able to pick up on it easily enough. Unless of course he's decided to change his meta since then, but we'll see.

This seems suspicious to me, saying you have special insight into whether he's scum or not. Just strikes me as suspicious. This strikes me as a you two are scum together type suspicious. And goes on to immediately divert attention to Second engineer.

FOS: Nominull