Mini 1504 - Antihero Mafia REBOOT [GAME OVER]

[AngryPidgeon]

Yo better fucking hope you get me lynched today mastin.

[AngryPidgeon]

Lurkaderpderp there Grim, you are usually so loquacious. Scum dunno how to respond to the Angry side of Angry P.

[The Grim Reaper]

I'm working on my quotes against EtL. It's a big post.

[The Grim Reaper]

I'll get back to your angry side later.

GG

[AngryPidgeon]

EtL may as well beconfirmed town.

Lets not focus on her, tia ^^

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I can defend myself tyvm.

[flying beauties]

well I am going to defend you.

I think you are being hardballed but I am trying to figure out what this means.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What is "hardballed"?

[The Grim Reaper]

I don't think I was understanding what was being argued, grim, and I admitted that when we talked about it then, as well as when Thor explained the thing with the scum list, not to mention at the time I was under the impression that Varsoon HAD voted for JKLM. I stood by the argument that I understood at the time. Does that make sense?

The above was your reply to my questions. You say two things:
You didn't understand what was being argued (

response 1

)
You were under the impression Varsoon had voted JKLM (

response 2

)

However, the biggest reason I believe Varsoon is scum is the way he acted towards the end of JKLM's lynch.

Spoiler: Varsoon calls JKLM townscumtownscumtownscumtown

JKLM is a terrible wagon that doesn't really get us much further in the game.

<snip>
Why should I be on the JKLM wagon when all my biggest scum-reads are pushing it the hardest?

Here he says JKLM is a bad wagon. Why would a wagon on scum (or what people thought was scum) be bad? Unless you knew he was town.

If there's not scum between Grim, FlyBeau, Beli, and JKLM, then the scum's already won.

Except at the time of the above post here, the JKLM wagon was gonna go through, and you knew that. So, better change tune, right? "JKLM is scum!"

Angry pidgeon is scum.
Beli is scum. That's all I'm sure of.

Angry is scum because look at who he thinks is scum: me, varsoon, and NEARLY EVERYONE ELSE. Scum trying to leave mislynched open.


Please don't let them discredit me tomorrow. Don't underestimate me ever, Beli is scum for sure. (I'm just really bad at presentation)

You all ready to eat your foot? Not really, it isn't your guys fault for the mislynch, it's really mine, a don't need to tell me that, so yay.

Good luck town. This is a tough list of people.

I tried, JKLM.
I really did.

It was really obvious from your play so far that you're town.
Reads list, bro?

OH no wait, JKLM is town again!

But, AP, the problem with your lists is that
You have had JKLM as scum for awhile

(he probably isn't).

You have me as scum (I definitely am not).

Bold pinged me so hard. I don't know that I've ever heard this from town or said this myself (except as scum). :/

There is no indication at all here that you thought Varsoon voted JKLM. This was never part of your case. (I snipped it to only the relevant part, but you can check, nothing about Varsoon being on a JKLM-wagon). This goes directly against

response 2

.

I'm actually slightly relieved to know about FnL. I had gut problems with him. All sorts of conflicting reads.

I like EtL's points on Varsoon very much. Especially that, despite his objections to the JKLM wagon, he stayed on it.

VOTE: Varsoon

Here Paschendale comes in. He entirely misreads your case (because he probably didn't read it) but does add his vote based on reasons you supposedly give.

At this point Guyett expresses disbelief through posting a .gif

But now comes the really surprising part:

Grim I find it hard to believe you don't understand what pasch just said....

I suppose it is only fitting you did not read my post, since I didn't read your fairy tale.

Instead of believing your own words, your own case, your instinct tells you to vouch for Paschendale.
You say that Guyett didn't read your wall, implying somewhere in that wall you talk about Varsoon staying on a JKLM-wagon despite his reservations. Yet you didn't.
This is where your sudden "belief Varsoon was voting JKLM" was coming from. You slipped, in an effort to grant Paschendale towncred. You assumed Paschendale knew what he was talking about, and Paschendale misread you.

Maybe, you and I have different definitions for "on the wagon". Because voting for someone and saying they are scum is pretty much it.

This is just an extremely awkward way of trying to get out of this slip. You turn to semantics, and try to explain that simply "calling someone scum" is the same as being on a wagon. It is clearly not. But this part of the discussion also goes directly against your

response 1

, because it's obvious that you knew what was being argued. Whether or not Varsoon was on a JKLM-wagon, and whether or not you said it.

my definition of being on the wagon would be actually voting .

Here Guyett further clarifies it for you, further going against your

response 1

.

After this you decide to steer clear of the discussion.

I see two scum having slipped over this. PAschendale later feels forced to remove his vote off of Varsoon over this mistake, in an effort to avoid people from noticing the concurrence of your mistake and his mistake. He later puts it back again when this discussion is gone and forgotten.

GG

[The Grim Reaper]

The slip is in 845, and shows PAschendale and EtL are in a scumteam together.

GG

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You seem to have conveniently excluded the part where Varsoon and you both pointed out he was not ever voting for JKLM, at which point I double checked for myself, admitted my mistake, and explained that I had thought he was on the wagon?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

grim... that had more to do with YOU and less to do with pasch... I was making a comment about you since I had considered you were playing dumb on purpose.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm surprised that you are attempting to hinge a case against me based on whether or not I directly stated in my initial case on Varsoon if he was actually voting JKLM or not, since I quite clearly believed he had.

[The Grim Reaper]

The point is that you didn't make the mistake while making your case. You made the mistake after Paschendale agreed with an argument that wasn't present in your case, by telling Guyett he should have read your case.
The slip is the following, in one sentence:
You agreed with Paschendale's mistake on your own case.

And the way you tried to withdraw from that mistake, was an awkward discussion about the semantics of the word "wagon".

GG

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And yes, when I realized my mistake, I backed off. Would you have preferred I tunnelled him to death on false information?

P-edit: What? I made a mistake after pash agreed? I agreed with pasch mistake .. what..

You're trying to say that I'm scum because pasch made the same mistake as me, and I didn't catch it, because I believed the same thing?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You are trying to tell me... that I knew varsoon hadn't voted, when I made my case, then forgot, and then remembered? Is that right?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I never argued the semantics about the word "wagon"... wtf? I never once argued about that. I honest to god thought Varsoon had voted for JKLM. Is it completely impossible to look at that case and the conversation following it from the point of view of someone who thought that?

[Antihero]

It is now my mission to have this song stuck in EVERYONE'S heads.

Vote Count 2.5

AngryPidgeon - 4 (mastin2, flying beauties, Majiffy, The Grim Reaper)
mastin2 - 1 (AngryPidgeon)
Paschendale - 3 (Darthe, Lying Cat, Thor665)
Thor665 - 1 (Paschendale)

Not Voting: Belisarius, EspeciallyTheLies

6 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2013-11-05 13:23:03).

[The Grim Reaper]

Let me break it down for you:

1. EtL makes a case.
2. Paschendale agrees with an argument that isn't there. (JKLM stayed on a wagon)
3. Guyett notices the oddity of step 2.
4. EtL claims there is no oddity in step 2, and states the non-existing argument is there.
5. EtL explains this by stating that she interprets "wagon" broadly.
6. Guyett shows surprise at this interpretation of "wagon", EtL steers away from further discussion.
7. PAschendale, despite EtL saying Paschendale was not being odd in 2, admits to his mistake himself and removes his vote.

(aftermath: Paschendale replaces his vote.)

GG

[The Grim Reaper]

I never argued the semantics about the word "wagon"... wtf? I never once argued about that. I honest to god thought Varsoon had voted for JKLM. Is it completely impossible to look at that case and the conversation following it from the point of view of someone who thought that?

Maybe, you and I have different definitions for "on the wagon". Because voting for someone and saying they are scum is pretty much it.

GG

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Fucking exactly dude. I thought he had voted for JKLM.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

At which point, I was corrected, and realized I'd made a mistake. I thought he had voted for him. What else do you want me to say? I thought the dude had fucking voted for him.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Are you trying to make a case against me for that? When you know what I'm like?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That I forget it's LYLO or when a game has already flipped a scum even... ask Guyett. You are missing information, Grim.

[The Grim Reaper]

+

my definition of being on the wagon would be actually voting .

I do find it suspicious that he both pushed and distanced himself from the wagon at numerous times.

After which you didn't reply anymore. The difference between Guyett's definition of wagon and yours, is your inclusion of "calling someone scummy", which Guyett read as that being in itself enough for constituting a wagon. You didn't react against this implication. This is the semantic element, the tiny way out of your tight spot.
If you had argued that wagons are actual votes, the mistakes made by you and Paschendale would be unexplainable.

GG