Newbie 1449: Return of the Van [Game Over!]

[hayatoBL]

So this is what I have so far. I’ll read more in a bit. If the questions I posted are already answered, then you don’t need to answer them again. That means I will find the answer later as I keep reading.

Post6: TCGW is a noob. It’s his first game here. He may be faking being noob, but since this is a Newbie game, then I am forced to believe that he really is a newbie.

Post9: Why can’t there be a naïve newbie townie? But the vote is OK, i guess. Since no one else has made a "scummy" move.

Post11: I agree on this vote.

Post13: Seems like ZF is buddying a newbie. IMO, TCGW’s argument on putting a vote on ZF is a bad one.

Post14: Suddenly votes. Talk about contradicting on page 1. No. Scum bussing each other on D1 is pretty normal. Don’t trust ZF too early, please.

Post17: Another newbie. Yeay. I may have a chance to perform in this game.

Post19: Our good IC giving lessons on scum-hunting. I’m enjoying this game already.

Post20:Votes TCGW because of fake-noobing? Yeah. We have to do something about people playing the newbie cards. Or we don’t because we are in a Newbie game.

Post21: Wow. Getting L-2 for playing noob-ly in a Newbie game. Seriously? Now, both scum and newbies have to play cautiously. Instead of trying to produce new contents to scumhunt, you just agreed and sheeped? That's a bad way to scumhunt.

Post22: A wall. A good point against that vigilante point. It doesn’t proves, that you’re not fake-noobing, but I’m much more convinced that you’re a genuine noob. Congrats. Abandoning ideas quickly is a town-tell in my book.

Page 1 is finished. I’ll do some reads again in a while. At this point I would ask Montosh and Grimgroove, why they would vote on a presumably noob-faking player? Yes. Only scum would fake being noob. I agree. But, there is no way to prove that someone is noob or not. Unless you know them on a personal level. Since you won't know, why pursue scum in this direction? Leave this question unanswered, if the answer can be found in a later post.

[hayatoBL]

So, second page..

Post26: An L-1 for a fake-noob claiming! Noob-tell. Wait. Why doesn’t Grimgrove like you? You should have asked that instead of “It’s OK to find me suspicious”. Now, you are looking suspicious. But it’s OK right?

Post30: Slight townread Grimgroove for the unvote.

Post33: Everything should be suspicious to you, unless you’re scum.

Post35 to 37: I dislike this noob-faking chase, but Grimgroove is really starting the game. I like it.

Post38: Yeah? He looks suspicious? Now, you too.

Post39: Changed opinion without anyone needing to point it out. Town points.

Post45: @Cervantes. And what do you think about the people who are currently sheeping you?

Post 46: What’s this about doctor? Focusing more on about difficulties in expressing than actual scum-hunting. More about this and you’ll fall in my scum pile.

Post47: What do you know? My slot unvoted. Clap clap. I’m town-reading him.

Post49: Oh. Now I get it. Trisania feels that Grimgroove is bread-crumbing doctor because of the “Lie on the sofa” thing. Cute. I see a newbie trying her best to make a decent read.

And I realized, I did put a question to my own slot on my last post.

That’s all from me today. I’ll do more read tomorrow.

[Untrod Tripod]

Votecount 1.3

Cervantes - 2 (zipperflesh, thiscantgowrong)
Grimgroove - 1 (thenewearth)
GuyInFreezer - 1 (Grimgoove)
Montosh
thenewearth - 1 (GuyInFreezer)
thiscantgowrong - 2 (Cervantes, WBO)
Trisania
WBOCampfire1104
zipperflesh

Not Voting - 2 (Montosh, Trisania)

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch

[Grimgroove]

UNVOTE:

Liking GiF's second coming. Going to take the backseat for a short moment.

[thiscantgowrong]

First, thank you Tri for unvoting me, if you are town you won't be disappointed.

Overall I'm still a bit suspicious of you Tri, but GiF makes a good point about the transparency. I'm not 100% satisfied with your answers, but I'm satisfied enough for now. The fact that you have experienced players saying they read you as town would be an even bigger help if I was confident those saying it were town, but I don't view any of them as scum yet either so it's also nothing against you.

@HayatoBL, I was a bit mistrustful towards the guy you replaced due to low activity, but if he had to be replaced that makes me believe he probably was just very busy. Given that I think you're probably town right now.

The only other thing I have to add is I really distrust Cervantes right now. He hasn't spoken since the third page and what he had on that page was pretty mild stuff compared to how he started this game. Starting aggressive, getting pegged as a potential scum, and then getting quite and laying low since seems really scummy to me. A town person shouldn't want to get lynched but a higher priority should be killing mafia. And Cervantes has some experience in the game, I have trouble believing he's not getting some reads on people he could share for the rest of us. I'm a bit worried he might successfully fly under the radar while we go for some more prominent target.

Thus my vote stays on Cervantes.

[GuyInFreezer]

*sigh* It's hard to get a read on GiF. His posts are mostly IC mode, and berating me for my stupidity. His non-IC posts are generalized statements and can either lean to highly-experienced town or scheming scum. I still haven't gotten over the 1339 game, he impressed me so much that I'd probably NK'd or mislynched if I were in that game with him.

(He is so good it's scary)

Reading: Null

.

Montosh barely posted, so there's not much to read from him. However, he asked thiscantgowrong twice for an explanation in his defense, which seems to be pro-town. (And I wanna correct myself. He didn't blast thiscant with a wall. A semi-wall, maybe?) Anyway, since he's about to be replaced, it wouldn't matter much what I read. Let's just hope his replacement is more active. For now, my read is: Leaning town.

Zipperflesh changed votes twice without giving much explanation on doing so. He saw thiscantgowrong as an easy target early in the game, which is weird considering we just started (and on RVS, at that) and we're supposed to be in the dark about people's roles, unless he is scum. Also, he voted for me just because he doesn't like my answer to his question. He could've at least stated why he finds it unacceptable. So, for me he is Leaning scum.

I think Cervantes is town. He doesn't post walls, but gave decent explanations whenever he was asked to clarify his opinions. Also, he encouraged me to vote, which is town-ish since even a mislynch is better than a no lynch. (Unless he is mafia trying tomappear town). Reading: Town.

*sigh* thiscantgowrong is, as much as it pains me to admit, he is town. The reason is that he boldly goes after other players (i.e. me), even though almost half the players think he is scum. He refuted my posts and even questioned them, which appears townish. But what I'm looking for from him is the townie's frustration at being the potential mislynch. Because if a person is innocent, he/she wouldn't go down without a fight. But whatever, his rebuttal on my posts constitutes a town action. I think. UNVOTE: thiscantgowrong. Don't disappoint me, townie.

Grimgroove asked

a lot of

questions, hinting that he wants to gather as much info as possible for his scumhunt. He also unvoted thiscantbewrong when he was already at L-1 instead of quick hammering him. This action screams town, because scum would notwant to stall the voting process. He did not take advantage of the opportunity to lynch.

TNE doesn't have substantial posts to go by, so I absolutely read him. *sob*. Reading: Null.

WBO is probably town. He gave decent reads on anyone, and even referenced a completed game on how GiF plays.

Even if GiF is town for me for now

, WBO gave me an excellent reference on how to read players. No scum would link a game on how to act town. Their secret would be exposed! Reading: Town.

[Trisania]

^Honest mistake, sorry. I forgot to edit my reading on you because I was so sleepy. I could barely think of a decent thing to say on the last three players. You're town, because based on that infamous 1339 game, you're more blatant in claiming town as scum. In this game, you're being vague and neutral. So you're more likely town than scum.

[Trisania]

So the hayatoBL thinks I'm scum. He's added to my list of admirers, lol. I'll read you after work.

[thenewearth]

Hmm. If I unintentionally fished for the Doc role, at least it was mitigated by the fact that I think Grim ISN'T the doctor.

These kind of thoughts are best kept to yourself as they don't help town in any way. Role speculation on town is scum's job and there's no need to help them with it.

I am getting quite a strong townread from you though, because I think as scum you would actually be more careful with sharing these thoughts. Don't make it a habit though, it's very rare that anti-town behavior earns you a townread.

Sorry, it won't happen again.

On gut feels:
Cervantes - leaning scum. I'll read his ISO to check.
Montosh - null? He was sort of leaning scum, but he blasted thiscantgowrong with a wall so now I'm not sure.
WBO - town. He seems nice. :/
zipper - null. I have yet to read his ISueO.
You - town.
TNE - null. Same as zipper.
GiF - town. But damn, I

stalked

read his 1339 game as scum, and he is good! So we should be cautious.

These are just gut feels, so don't burn me at the stake for this. I'll read all your ISOs when I get home, since it's annoying to read and post walls using my phone.

You read 1339? It WAS amazing. ANYONE VOTING GUYINFREEZER UNVOTE NOW Why? Because, well, read 1339. He was amazing. He probably just slipped up, or he's scum and is protecting other scum by forcing a wagon to him. But if he gets lynched Day 1, the chances are too high we've lost a very valuable player for town.

Well I don't really care about meta and stuff like that
But basing what you're doing on GiF's 1 game is annoying and not helping.
So CAN YOU JUST STOP THE BUDDYING ALREADY?!

Hi Everybody.

Hi TNE, I suck in the last game, but I'll do better this time.

I'll start with doing some re-read. Until I'm finished with reading, I won't be responding to anyone's question or comments.

Keep up the enthusiasm.
( owo)b

[thenewearth]

Oh and

VOTE: thiscantgrow

[Trisania]

Uhm, TNE, it's "thiscantgowrong".

[thenewearth]

gawd

too much Renard

VOTE: thiscantgowrong

Whatever >.>

[thiscantgowrong]

Oh and

VOTE: thiscantgrow

Most players seem to think I'm not particularly scummy at this point (while there seems to be a growing chorus of accusations against you), so I don't really feel the need to defend myself here more than I already have.

[thenewearth]

1) I really don't care if someone thinks I'm scummy
2) Is this some attempt of redirecting?
3) What do you think of ME then (I would not care if you'd call me scum or not. But I would care for the reasons of why you think of me as THAT)

[hayatoBL]

Reads from page 3:

Spoiler:

Post50: Good lord, still talking about PR. Somebody needs to tell Trisania, we don’t do this. If this is a scum move trying to out the PR, it can’t get much more obvious than this.

Post52: Not elaborating?

Post55: Can’t one fake being innocent and indignant in a forum?

Post56: TCGW’s idea of not voting and only discussing who to lynch is a bad idea. I agree. But we all know this idea won’t be brought into action with all the experienced players around. His merely suggesting and not really executing it shouldn’t be seen as scum. If he is trying to make a statement, it could be in a line of “I’m a newbie. So, if I make a mistake, don’t be suspicious of me. OK?”

@TCGW You said
“Also, if I'm scum I likely would have conferred with my fellow mafia person who could be a pro and quite probably would have told me to not post anything that brings too much attention to myself.”

Yet, here you are as town, having this idea without someone conferring you. What I see here is, you’re trying to paint scum in a way, that it doesn’t matches you.

Already finding Cervantes’ scum partner? How about wait for Cervantes actually flip scum to do that.

Post57: Bread-crumbing PR is made both by PR’s and scum to point out later in the game that they were the PR, they claimed. But what Grimgroove said ISN’T bread-crumbing. You’ve misinterpreted.

Post59: Jumped on a wagon and then clarify it. Nice…you just fall into scum pile.

Post63: @TNE Why is Cervantes town?

Post64: What is the difference between those two votes?

Post71: @WBO What is wrong with being overly-aggressive? Isn’t that a town-tell?

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: thenewearth

[Grimgroove]

Trisania
thiscantgowrong

Cervantes

HayatoBL

WBOCampfire1104

zipperflesh

Grimgroove

thenewearth

GuyInFreezer

[Trisania]

Post50: Good lord, still talking about PR. Somebody needs to tell Trisania, we don’t do this. If this is a scum move trying to out the PR, it can’t get much more obvious than this.

[rant]The fuck, dude?! Yes, I keep making mistakes here because I don't fucking know everything. And yes, I'm playing the bloody newbie card because I AM new, and I do not know the proper execution of the rules here. I have read the wiki, but that does not immediately educate me about everything here.

Damn it, it's embarassing enough that I've been told off by an IC, so you guys don't need to rub it in. Fine, see me as scum, but heck, better that than be a Village Idiot, which I'm feeling better suits my idiocy so far.[/rant]

[Trisania]

Trisania
thiscantgowrong

Cervantes

HayatoBL

WBOCampfire1104

zipperflesh

Grimgroove

thenewearth

GuyInFreezer

And the colors mean...?

[Grimgroove]

Green = Townread, not lynching today
Brown = Unclear, needs looking into, possible lynch for today
Red = Scumread, preferred lynch for today

[thenewearth]

And why is that, pray tell?

[thenewearth]

Don't give me that "Why did you just vote now" stuff, btw.

[Grimgroove]

I can't see any reason why not to lynch you, for starters.

You're beating a dead horse with that thiscantgowrong-vote. The arguments against him have been addressed, you did not provide any new ones. The vote as a frivolous afterthought sits very badly with me. It also feels as appeasement towards GuyInFreezer, who called you out for that very thing. For someone claiming not to care about being read as scum, this is strange. You avoided a direct exchange with GuyInFreezer at a time where he clearly called you out.

And you didn't answer my question about where you know me from, but that's not really a reason, I'm just still curious .

You got time to talk?

[Grimgroove]

Can you answer Hayato's questions to you, for starters?

[Grimgroove]

At this point I would ask Montosh and Grimgroove, why they would vote on a presumably noob-faking player? Yes. Only scum would fake being noob. I agree. But, there is no way to prove that someone is noob or not. Unless you know them on a personal level. Since you won't know, why pursue scum in this direction?

I don't know if you feel this has been adequatelly answered in this topic already, but in case you need further clarification:
The "playing the newbie card" is not necessarily the same as someone faking to be a noob. It's true, there are newbies in this game and some of them are obviously unfamiliar with certain common principles. Some of the principles deal with what is anti-town behavior, for example. When a newbie shows anti-town behavior, and gets called out on it, he can play the newbie-card: he didn't know about that being anti-town. This offers a veil for the intentions they had when doing what they did (example: putting someone at L-1 without stating that it is L-1).

So sometimes it's genuine newbishness, but sometimes it's definitely not. I had reasons to believe that in the case of thiscantgowrong, his "newbishness" was at least partially faked, because he went overboard in playing the "unknowing new player" by considering the vigilante-role in this game. Same with that silly "not voting"-theory. I sensed overacting. By now I'm starting to get more convinced he's not as meticulous as he first seemed and the way he dealt with the early pressure on him feels very town.