Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[BROseidon]

BRO's posting style seems to be becoming more and more like AP's every day :/

That AFB hydra is making it worse :/

[BROseidon]

But he wasn't scum there, was he...?

He was 3rd party who couldn't win with town (won when all scum were eliminated and had ring, town had to destroy ring).

[BROseidon]

Current reads list, since Nacho asked so nicely:

Town:

pieguyn
psyche
GP
{mastin/morph}
{wayne/thez}

null-town:

muffinz
Varsoon

null:

Mac

null-scum:

SSK
TNE

scum:

{mastin/morph}
{Wayne/Thez}

The bracketed groups are groups where I think both people look bad, but are mutually exclusive as scum (what I had for bnb/nick in Xenogears AND YES I KNOW I WAS WRONG ABOUT THAT)

[zMuffinMan]

then why are you voting someone you're "null-scum" on instead of someone you actually think is scum?

[thenewearth]

Sorry I'm really not in the mood to re-read everything right now

I'll do later/tomorrow

*cough*and prod dodge*cough*

[BROseidon]

then why are you voting someone you're "null-scum" on instead of someone you actually think is scum?

I want more time to sort the pairings.

[pieguyn]

@Varsoon:

what do you think about 705

Interesting, mostly because it resonates with me a bit.

I mean, out of zmon and Wayne, if I had to call one of them scum, I'd send Wayne to the gallows first.

But I don't feel too passionately about either of them being scum.

do you still think I'm scum?

also what's your opinion on morph's 798?

i get pretty much the same feeling from morph as i do from BRO. the scumhunting they've done so far has either been weak or felt really forced. also they've been almost bipolar in their read on me and i feel like that's been going with the flow of the game more than genuine trouble reading me.

actually, I'm really starting to look at morph a lot too

a lot of her posts seem really serious. and I know I read somewhere that for ffery, "not having fun" is a scumtell. I'm kind of getting that vibe from them atm, although that's pretty much entirely gut.

and I'm paranoid of anyone who calls a scumslip on a townie <_>

Whoever pointed out that TNE's reads are derivative, I agree with them, and while Pie has made a few good points, they seem more play based than red based; I still like TNE for scums.

that was me T_T

can you explain the "play based" vs. "read based"? I don't understand what you mean here.

[pieguyn]

SSK vote seems fine for now, TNE leans town for tone.

can you elaborate on what tone makes you townread him?

I personally didn't see anything too town in the tone in his posts. 0.0

No, I thought that the way pieguy went about the reaction test was decently town; it was an odd angle to take, but the way that he went about it seemed decent to me. I also liked his #89 because it's the type of thing that you out to a scumbuddy in the quicktopic as oppose to zero in on in thread

you know I can only do that if GP and I are both scum right

hmmm do you know something I don't?

This question sucks, considering that question is the one most of Varsoon's recent posts were dedicated to answering. Did you ignore the walls,

or were you just trying to get him to summarize them for you?

noooo what the hell. don't give him the easy out. make him come up with that shit on his own. if that's his real intention to get Varsoon to summarize the walls, he'll say that without you prompting him to say it. you putting that in there made this whole question entirely pointless T_T

[zMuffinMan]

I want more time to sort the pairings.

you didn't have that issue when voting nick in xenogears

why do you think those 4 "look bad"? and what are you doing to sort them?

[BROseidon]

I want more time to sort the pairings.

you didn't have that issue when voting nick in xenogears

why do you think those 4 "look bad"? and what are you doing to sort them?

Learned my lesson after nick >.>

Reason for those four is that the interactions within those pairs feel off. With Wayne/Thez, it's Wayne's aggression combined with thez's defensive/hedged language. With mastin/morph, it's the awkward posturing. Both instances make me think it's TvS, and I want more time to figure out who is what.

Plan is to let more material come in for analysis, and do a reread this coming weekend if I have time.

[pieguyn]

you know I can only do that if GP and I are both scum right

hmmm do you know something I don't?

nvm I get it now durrrr

in that case I have another question: if I was scum, what disadvantage would I have from posting that in thread?

[morph the cat]

There will most likely be an incoming reads list update in an hour or two.

She got some shitty business dinner thing, I've been unable to contact her this entire evening. Tomorrow.

[morph the cat]

actually, I'm really starting to look at morph a lot too

a lot of her posts seem really serious. and I know I read somewhere that for ffery, "not having fun" is a scumtell. I'm kind of getting that vibe from them atm, although that's pretty much entirely gut.

and I'm paranoid of anyone who calls a scumslip on a townie

Mafia is srs bzns. Having fun is almost always in that context. I don't think you have anywhere near the experience to tell the difference between me being town-annoyed (or for that matter town-fatalistic) and me being scum. Though there's plenty of data available, and there are now even some scum games out there in the meta-mix where I was arguably having fun during at least parts of the games.

Morph meta is a sort of island, though. All the completed games are not-town, and I have a hopefully pessimistic expectation that we'll be scumread by default, though there's a fizz in the back of my mind every time I open this game because this time the game is in my home court. I'm not too worried about things because I know what my body of work will demonstrate.

There are at least a few people playing this game who demonstrably can read me. Assuming they're town, the morph read should be pretty accurate.

I'm going to sleep off that business dinner now.

[pieguyn]

yeah that whole feeling on you is pretty much just paranoia. it's a pretty weak feeling for pretty much the exact reason you pointed out in that post

the "scumslip" read is a lot stronger and is making me watch out though

also, I tried looking through your posts to figure out your read on BRO. I think I see it but I'm not sure T_T

I did notice something odd though

can you elaborate on that plz?

Wayne's always somewhat abrasive, but he doesn't get this aggressive on people as town (Xenoblade, Xenogears, War in the Middle East). He's being more abrasive than usual, which reminds me of his play in LotR, where he played much more abrasively to throw Amrun/the SK/Andy hydra off.

At least you're focusing on two players I had early concerns about. I'm not sure it's good to have dropped my guard on BRO and zmuffin a little since my first reads list, but I do like later stuff they've posted.

I thought I answered this.

The vote itself didn't trouble me too much because I also had rising concerns about Wayne at that point. The main reason I waited until yesterday morning to vote him was because I didn't want to jostle the interactions between Wayne and thezmon because those interactions were helping with my reads on both players.

However, I didn't like the 624 reasons for the vote, and made a note to bring that up with Cabd when we synch our reads. In the Wayne games I've read, I've found him to be plenty abrasive as town.

you say he's suspicious for "bad reasons" early on, then claim you like his later posts, then claim that you don't like a post again for "bad reasons" that would fit into that category of "later posts"?

[zMuffinMan]

Both instances make me think it's TvS

i really hate statements like this, unless you actually have a scum read on one and a town read on the other. e.g. if you think one of mastin/morph is town and awkwardly posturing, why couldn't they

both

be town awkwardly posturing?

[waynegg]

actually, I'm really starting to look at morph a lot too

a lot of her posts seem really serious. and I know I read somewhere that for ffery, "not having fun" is a scumtell. I'm kind of getting that vibe from them atm, although that's pretty much entirely gut.

and I'm paranoid of anyone who calls a scumslip on a townie

Mafia is srs bzns. Having fun is almost always in that context. I don't think you have anywhere near the experience to tell the difference between me being town-annoyed (or for that matter town-fatalistic) and me being scum. Though there's plenty of data available, and there are now even some scum games out there in the meta-mix where I was arguably having fun during at least parts of the games.

Morph meta is a sort of island, though. All the completed games are not-town, and I have a hopefully pessimistic expectation that we'll be scumread by default, though there's a fizz in the back of my mind every time I open this game because this time the game is in my home court. I'm not too worried about things because I know what my body of work will demonstrate.

There are at least a few people playing this game who demonstrably can read me. Assuming they're town, the morph read should be pretty accurate.

I'm going to sleep off that business dinner now.

And now ffery scum to go with cabdscum.

VOTE: Morph

[morph the cat]

actually, I'm really starting to look at morph a lot too

a lot of her posts seem really serious. and I know I read somewhere that for ffery, "not having fun" is a scumtell. I'm kind of getting that vibe from them atm, although that's pretty much entirely gut.

and I'm paranoid of anyone who calls a scumslip on a townie

Mafia is srs bzns. Having fun is almost always in that context. I don't think you have anywhere near the experience to tell the difference between me being town-annoyed (or for that matter town-fatalistic) and me being scum. Though there's plenty of data available, and there are now even some scum games out there in the meta-mix where I was arguably having fun during at least parts of the games.

Morph meta is a sort of island, though. All the completed games are not-town, and I have a hopefully pessimistic expectation that we'll be scumread by default, though there's a fizz in the back of my mind every time I open this game because this time the game is in my home court. I'm not too worried about things because I know what my body of work will demonstrate.

There are at least a few people playing this game who demonstrably can read me

. Assuming they're town, the morph read should be pretty accurate.

I'm going to sleep off that business dinner now.

And now ffery scum to go with cabdscum.

VOTE: Morph

Wasn't counting you among those.

[mastin2]

BRO's posting style seems to be becoming more and more like AP's every day :/

No kidding.

To start: Mastin is probably fucking Town.

Only

probably

? Ghostlin, if I could fake this attitude so convincingly as scum, it'd be scummy-worthy. I'm town.

Mastin's "fuck I made myself far too obvtown early" + a couple of his wafflefests felt very genuine to me, like he was thrust out into thread and just started ranting.

For the record: a "fuck, I made myself far too obvtown early" attitude would technically be my scum meta, because scum-me being obvtown early is a literal death-sentence. My most successful scum games are the ones where I'm NOT obvtown early, but rather, sorta-town, and progressively more town. If I start as obvtown, the only way to go is downwards, and thus, a scum-me would not be amused. Also, ranting is part of my scum meta, too, in that I've gotten so many scum PMs this year that I'm kinda sick and tired of them.

Now, a "whoops, I made myself obvtown" attitude, on the other hand, that's a town-me. And a town-me does have a MASSIVE tendency to

ramble

. These subtle, but vital, differences mark the difference between the town-me and the scum-me. (For the record, though, this is the town me. It was a "whoops" combined with rambling, not a "fuck" with ranting. )

gut-town based on what?

On gut. Granted, I'm beginning to come around on SSK. I don't like the push ON him, but I'm also not liking him, either. (Maybe he really IS third party...... ) Could be town (though I'm beginning to doubt it) being pushed by scum, could be scum being bussed by scum (I'm beginning to think this), could be scum being pushed by town. I'm not sure, anymore.

Think morph's town

why?

(<3 vollkan.)

Town:
{mastin/morph}
{wayne/thez}

scum:
{mastin/morph}
{Wayne/Thez}

The bracketed groups are groups where I think both people look bad, but are mutually exclusive as scum (what I had for bnb/nick in Xenogears AND YES I KNOW I WAS WRONG ABOUT THAT)

Uh-huh.

VOTE: BROseidon.
For emphasis.

[pieguyn]

mastin what's wrong with BRO's post. i dunno if I'm overlooking smth cause i'm tired as hell but I don't see it 0.0

also holy wow those :Ps

[pieguyn]

@wayne:

can you elaborate on exactly what's wrong with that post

@zmuffin:

what are your thoughts on morph's 837

[mastin2]

mastin what's wrong with BRO's post. i dunno if I'm overlooking smth cause i'm tired as hell but I don't see it 0.0

A lot?

(This is a mental note that I'm basically thinking pie-scum is possible with BRO-scum, but eh, pie-town's not impossible either.)

[pieguyn]

I'm really tired and I can't see anything for shit right now sry

[Varsoon]

VOTE: pieguyn

A little reiteration never hurt anyone.

Anywayforwho~

I don't know who else is scum.

Feeling kinda useless.

[zMuffinMan]

quick post before i head out today

On gut.

i meant, which posts gave you this gut feeling? or is it not based on his posts?

@zmuffin: what are your thoughts on morph's 837

i don't really have thoughts on it. it's a fairly alignment-neutral post.

[morph the cat]

Town

Holy shit I don't feel like putting any of you in this pile.

Lean Town

Varsoon - I disgree with him on some stuff, but he's the towniest player in the list atm.
mastin2 - I think scum-mastin would actually work harder on mislynching me, because I don't think I get much more mislynchable than town-morph at this point in the morph-evolution. I like some of his reads, and like them some of them more than I originally did.
zMuffinMan - this is becoming a pattern. I'll like his entrance into games, get weirded out about some of his early posts and stances, and then work my way back toward a town read.
pieguyn - without the partial claim this would be a null read. I thought about moving him to lean town on the basis of his pretty much tireless questioning of other players, but looking at the questions he's asked me I feel like an ISO would have answered most of them more than adequately. Makes me worry some of this is busywork. Also, Cabd feels that the focus on the "scumslip" accusation is bad and he should feel bad, because that was an obvious as fuck reaction test.

Null

thenewearth - play the damn game.
Mac - same. After the xenogears game, I have expectations.
Psychlone - it worries me a lot that I don't have enough data to develop even a preliminary read. Much as I loved the hi guys case, it's worn off. I know Nacho's stolen laptop situation, but GiF get in here and talk.
waynegg - I don't know how Cabd feels but I've come back to what seems to be my usual take when I read waynegg's posts - intentionally chaotic and abrasive, reaction seeking, and ultimately not all that effective. Some sort of order usually emerges, and he does a fair job of interacting with his town reads later on. I'm watching for signs of that happening.
Ghostly Penguin - Not as much content mixed in with the invective as I'm used to seeing. IIRC we got off to a rocky start in the Diner game but eventually our reads and stances were pretty synchronous. Waiting to see if that happens here.

Leaning Scum

BROseidon - there's a huge reads/reactions disconnect here that I'm not used to seeing when we're both town. Xenogears being a counter-example. I feel like we occasionally come close to the same page on a player or post and then it falls apart again. I'm worried this means scum-BRO.
MafiaSSK - sorry, mastin. I still have somewhat but not entirely meta-based concerns here.
thezmon211 - the back and forth between him and waynegg has me leaning scum, mostly because his arguments have been as much about discrediting waynegg as about rebutting the substance. I know that a word choice based case isn't easy to refute. In fact BRO tried to spin such a case on me in xenogears, and my reaction was to laugh it off because fuck no I was town.