Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Mafia - Game Over

[Kdub]

Day 3 - Vote Count #20

kanyeknowsbest (0)

-

Belisarius (0)

-

waynegg (0)

-

pieguyn (5)

- Majiffy, talah, waynegg, Wake88, Belisarius

AGar (0)

-

PeregrineV (0)

-

leviathan93 (0)

-

Svenskt Stål (0)

-

Majiffy (0)

-

Pyrotechnics (0)

-

EspeciallyTheLies (0)

-

NachoKoopa (0)

-

Wake88 (6)

- Titus, kanyeknowsbest, Natirasha, pieguyn, AGar, NachoKoopa

talah (0)

-

Natirasha (0)

-

Titus (0)

-

No lynch (0)

-

Not voting (5)

- PeregrineV, leviathan93, Svenskt Stål, Pyrotechnics, EspeciallyTheLies

16 votes available
9 votes needed to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2013-11-24 21:08:27)

V/LA: Natirasha (10/10)

[waynegg]

PV, let's suppose (arguendo, with no evidence) that

1) Night 1 kills are as follows

a) Pie is factional scum and killed AA9.
b) 2nd factional scum killed AA9 OR ran into a doctor/healer or some other role protecting said target.

2) Night 2 kills are as follows

a) Pie's non-blue scum kills DV. (Most likely scenario, but not certain).
b) Blue scum tried to shoot Pyro/Talah or ran into another healer ish type character and Pyro is assuming the BP shot went on him. (I've never heard of a "loud" BP on this site [meaning notification received when vest lost].)


I have just set up a scenario where multiball is possible.

Would it be highly implausible that

a) Blue Scum Wake wanted to lynch Pie to ensure none of his team got lynched

or

b) Non-Blue Scum Wake wanted to get Pie lynched so his faction could have control over his kill?


===========

Now let's take a more likely scenario, one scum team.

Would it be plausible for you that Scum Wake would want to push to have Pie lynched to have total control over his faction's kill?



Look at Wake's actions as a whole... lynch confscum = trying to play for towncred without actually scumhunting, benefit == get control of kill after teammate slipped and required bussing. He tries to insist on his own pool to ensure that those his faction wants dead CAN be killed. Look at his noms as more evidence this is his motivation.



If you're going to seriously put for Wake town, I'm going to need a lot at this point.

More than anything, it's posts like this that make me think Pie is factional.

[Wake1]

Titus, it would seem you more than anyone else has tried to find any reason to see me lynched. You may think I am an easy lynch, but you would be wrong. I'll give you time to think things through before I come back.

[talah]

Where's Svenskt?

Everyone who's not voting right now - why not?

This is effectively a prod-reset. Slightly brain-fizzled tbh. If anyone wants to do some good works, maybe we can talk about Deas' reads and iso, although I can't be arsed doing effort right now. I'd actually be interested in those who he only referred to in passing, or didn't mention at all outside of reads lists.

I'll get back to it tomorrow otherwise.

16 days till deadline. Lordy.

[waynegg]

Kalimar built too easily. He's probably not scum.

I feel like this is the kind of assumption that can easily lead town astray. I don't think it's unlikely for scum to feel pressured to join a wagon on their buddy, and it's even possible that the wagon is all town.

Levi, what is the difference between a 'scum on town' argument and a 'town on town' argument?

I think you'd be better off shooting someone that has claimed , but I'd prefer Sven to ArcAngel, as I've felt disappointed by ArcAngel before only for her to be obviously town a bit later.

Well, there's Kalimar, aka Titus...

[waynegg]

Titus, that quote was where I had previously mentioned that Pie being group scum would actually be no problem at all, so I think that's a pretty bad point in favour of lynching pie. I agree with Nat, essentially.

I can't say I'm too passionate about Empking vs. Svenskt but Svenskt has this semi-natural feel to him that Empking doesn't.

And relation to Pie...

[waynegg]

I actually don't mind the idea of having everyone nominate three people. It was something we always did way back on my old site, and it worked quite well. I don't know if we'll manage to do it though.

Empking,

Pyro

, Wayne

PEdit: Titus, yeah you did, but I don't think I've ever seen scum do that, and usually when I've seen something that's too strange to come from town or scum, it's from town.

Wake, Pyro has essentially shown us that Pie is the SK and not groupscum. Please don't use the possibility of him being groupscum to support your arguments.

I also don't see much point in waiting for a lynch at this stage except for getting a claim/anything else that's obvious.

My reads are looking something like this:

Super town:

Kanye
PeregrineV

Pyrotechnics

Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

(I actually think this would be a pretty great townblock, but somehow I don't think people would want me in it, so...)

Then I've got a group of people who are kind of town, but I could still see as scum:

Belisarius (Probably should be in the group above, but I'm worried about his lack of posting lately)
AGar
Svenskt
Majiffy
Nacho

And then there's:

Wayne
Empking
Leviathan

And this series bolsters my case on Pyro.

[talah]

Yeah I dunno wayne. I feel like I'm missing something big here because I don't really buy the multiball arguments.

I can make some reasonable assumptions which would allow me to, though.

For example Kdub producing fakeclaims either on-demand or of limited number would explain how pie was able to claim flavour on both Vig and SK (and actually in my scumgame which was a mini-theme, Shamrock provided fakeclaim characters with an option to request flavour for a specific PR, and we would have been allowed to request a fake ability and the paraphrase it in the mafia qt so we effectively had three paraphrased claims we could have shared). It's not highly unlikely but it takes a bit of mental wangling and ignoring a bunch of other evidence.

I already mentioned the problem with Pyro being factional scum - namely that defending pie so heavily to the point of out and out claiming an opposite role kind of makes no sense as scum of the opposite faction.

Trying to get there in my head because Majiffy seems so keen on it and I'm *tending* town on him but can't really understand why he's pushing the multiscum angle unless he actually lucked out and watched a rolecop occur.

(Either way the only way to make this game playable imo is to lynch pie and remove the bone of contention, but anyway, /aside)

So yeah Titus I've been dodgy on since the Kalimar days but we'll see I guess. No strongstrong scumread for me there but I'm a bit iffy that she wants to push folks as scum while apparently not reading all that thoroughly. Actually that would be an interesting exercise going back to see how that wagon died in the first place. Deas attacked it a lot from memory. I remember blasting him for it :S

[pieguyn]

I told you Titus was mafia dayvig

[kanyeknowsbest]

how come wake isnt lynched yet

[talah]

Because lynching Wake doesn't solve the major issue with this game, and he's claimed tracker which can track tonight.

[talah]

And yeah I had thought Titus would be a good smith choice, because if she can still vig she's got no reason to be opposing your lynch pie.

[kanyeknowsbest]

it will help clear up a pretty large problem and also be incredibly satisfying though.

[waynegg]

Talah

Scum usually have safeclaims. In fact, I haven't been in a game on this site where they didn't except for marathon, so you should be thinking more like if they don't instead of if they do. Take a look from that perspective and come again.

In what I quoted from Deas's choices for vig. Do you think he gave a vig list with no scum on it knowing Pie (or his team more like) had to hit scum to keep the SK WIFOM going? Empking already flipped town. I'm town. That only leaves Pyro on his list.

Majiffy is probably town scum have left alone thus far because they think they can push a mislynch on owing to Pie, Pie, Pie and nothing else. He may even be a candidate for endgame because of it.

What problem would that be Kanye? That he was protected last night and you guys couldn't kill him?

[Wake1]

it will help clear up a pretty large problem and also be incredibly satisfying though.

Kanye, stop trying to ruin the game to satisfy your own ego, please. Lynching me won't end the confScum debate. Lynching the confScum

will

.

[Titus]

And yeah I had thought Titus would be a good smith choice, because if she can still vig she's got no reason to be opposing your lynch pie.

I do. It's called I am not queen of the universe. The group decided on Day 2 that Pie lives until he shoots town. If the town doesn't lynch him on the day after he hypothetically shoots town, I will vig him.

[Titus]

Titus, it would seem you more than anyone else has tried to find any reason to see me lynched. You may think I am an easy lynch, but you would be wrong. I'll give you time to think things through before I come back.

I never go for easy lynches. I go for scum lynches. I already have associative tells I have posted and know a goid chunk of your 5-6 player scum team (unless it is multiball). So I want YOU dead as you are practically confscum to me.

[Wake1]

Titus, it would seem you more than anyone else has tried to find any reason to see me lynched. You may think I am an easy lynch, but you would be wrong. I'll give you time to think things through before I come back.

I never go for easy lynches. I go for scum lynches. I already have associative tells I have posted and know a goid chunk of your 5-6 player scum team (unless it is multiball). So I want YOU dead as you are practically confscum to me.

Correction: you do go for perceived easy lynches. I am no easy lynch.

Furthermore, I am no Scum lynch. As Nonconsecutive Tracker (Andrew Waltfeld of the LaGOWE), I can use Tank Mode to track anyone once every other Night. Now as Scum that may make you think twice about acting tonight, so I suspect you'll do what you can during the Day to eliminate the threat.

You think there's a 5-6 player Scum team assuming it's not multiball? That'd be broken.

I'm practically confScum

to you

.

You

, however, are not always sensical. And in this game, I feel you are playing FAR differently than the games where you were Town. When I think of you as Town, I think of someone who may actually be as analytical as me, but can be stubborn and mechanical. Only in this game, though, have I seen you so doggedly attempt over ten times trying to find any and every little strand to try and pull and lynch me with it.

And think about it. If I were Scum and I knew pie was the SK, I'd be loving every second of the drama, while taking a safe seat in the middle-background. No way in hell would I repeatedly run through the battlefront dodging mortars and bulletfire and lynches and furries. No way in Hell.

[Wake1]

This is goddamned stupid. Too many things could go wrong if we let the supposed SK stay alive. We lynch SK, we have one less Scum to worry about. We let the SK live, our Townies drop faster. That means less Days, less time, and less Scumhunting for us. We can't even agree on who he should kill; you don't think he's gonna be a major distraction? Lynch him now, and Town can keep doing what it's supposed to do: root out and lynch Scum.

I agree with this. The problem is, I don't think the town is smart enough to lynch the claimed SK. So I'm voting to get a lynch off.

I remember this from Day 1.

It really contrasts with the position you're currently projecting.

[Titus]

5 to 6 scum in a 20 plus player game doesn't seem broken.

No, regardless of alignment, I go for logical not easy lynches. Methodical plus stubborn pretty much is doggedly. Note: Did the theory I put forth suggest Pie was sk? No. Even if he was, the Pie lynch ensures one of your scumbuddies doesn't get lynched.

A lot has happened since Day 1.

[Titus]

Your tracker claim is worthless to me, which suggests you aren't arguing to me but to the group to setup a gotcha trap. If I cease to go down this path, I am appeasing. If I continue, then you argue that I am overly determined scum.

[Titus]

how come wake isnt lynched yet

Wake has buddies who will lynch anything but Pie or Wake and buddies who fake claim cop.

[PeregrineV]

I actually don't mind the idea of having everyone nominate three people. It was something we always did way back on my old site, and it worked quite well. I don't know if we'll manage to do it though.

Empking,

Pyro

, Wayne

PEdit: Titus, yeah you did, but I don't think I've ever seen scum do that, and usually when I've seen something that's too strange to come from town or scum, it's from town.

Wake, Pyro has essentially shown us that Pie is the SK and not groupscum. Please don't use the possibility of him being groupscum to support your arguments.

I also don't see much point in waiting for a lynch at this stage except for getting a claim/anything else that's obvious.

My reads are looking something like this:

Super town:

Kanye
PeregrineV

Pyrotechnics

Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

(I actually think this would be a pretty great townblock, but somehow I don't think people would want me in it, so...)

Then I've got a group of people who are kind of town, but I could still see as scum:

Belisarius (Probably should be in the group above, but I'm worried about his lack of posting lately)
AGar
Svenskt
Majiffy
Nacho

And then there's:

Wayne
Empking
Leviathan

And this series bolsters my case on Pyro.

If you show us possible reasons why that switched in 460 posts (or not), it would lend weight to what you are saying.

[PeregrineV]

Too late as in costing us too many Townies over confScum.

Majiffy says there are two teams. Discuss.

*Scratches head*

...well, it's possible and even plausible. We have 21 players in this game. It's big enough to allow not just two Mafia factions, but also an SK.

With Multiball + SK, the Mafia teams could either be comprised of two or three members each. However, that'd be 7 Scum total. Still, it may be possible.

That, or there are two Mafia factions and no SK. It's possible. The reason I suspect two Mafia factions is that there's a Blue group, which lends credence to an alternate Red group.

Blue and Red Mafia and an SK is possible...

...but if so the NKs put everything into question. If three Scum factions, why so few kills?

Therein lies the crux of why I can't jump on the "Pie is the other mafia" bandwagon.

[Wake1]

(1)

5 to 6 scum in a 20 plus player game doesn't seem broken.

(2)

No, regardless of alignment, I go for logical not easy lynches.

(3)

Methodical plus stubborn pretty much is doggedly.

(4)

Note: Did the theory I put forth suggest Pie was sk? No.

(5)

Even if he was, the Pie lynch ensures one of your scumbuddies doesn't get lynched.

(6)

A lot has happened since Day 1.

(7)

Your tracker claim is worthless to me,

(8)

which suggests you aren't arguing to me but to the group to setup a gotcha trap.

(9)

If I cease to go down this path, I am appeasing.

(10)

If I continue, then you argue that I am overly determined scum.

how come wake isnt lynched yet

(11)

Wake has buddies who will lynch anything but Pie or Wake and buddies who fake claim cop.

Gee.

(1)

No, it is broken. 4 groupScum in a 21-player game with SK I'm alright with. 5-6 groupScum with an SK in a 21-player game I'm not. If there are six Mafia out there besides a Serial Killer, do you not think it would be more likely to have two teams with three members each?

(2)

So you say.

(3)

Perhaps, although I do question your intentions. In a completed game a player named SalmonellaDreams tunneled me relentlessly, and he was Scum. I get the feeling you're tunneling of a sort, as in looking for near-countless ways to get rid of ol' Wake. If you were Town, you wouldn't tunnel like that against an Unknown. You should, however, against uprooted Scum.

(4)

In which post? It has felt for some time that you have argued tooth and nail that pie was SK, and that you wanted to use him to kill Mafia, which is why you won't lynch him. If he were a Mafia faction, you would have voted for him.

(5)

Don't make assumptions, Titus. That's how Townies get made to look stupid on certain flips. Qualify by dealing in possibilities. Not claims of absolute truth.

(6)

Based on your maneuvering,

indeed

.

(7)

A PR claim should not be worthless. If one claims Doc or Cop, you don't instantaneously vote that fellow off.

(8)

You may imply that.

(9)

You may think that. It would be better to kill the Scum up on stage. End that debate. End that division.

(10)

I argue that you're suspicious as Hell for your dogged way of singling me out, as though you're Scum trying to remove a threat. Either that, or you are very anti-Town. You get Townies killed over confScum, defend confScum, and are now even willing to lynch a claimed Tracker over a claimed SK. Should you succeed in lynching me, which you will not, my finger of suspicion rests squarely on you, Titus.

(11)

Really. Titus? How are we

not

going to lynch you once I flip Town or pie flips factional Scum?