Red Wine Mafia: Game Over

[fferyllt]

We're in agreement that ABR is lynchbait though.

No. ABR is scum. He's about the only one here, besides Espeonage, I'm practically certain of. When pjo was catching heat, he slipped onto that wagon. When it died and people were pressuring mindgamer (now BBmolla), he did the same thing. When that got replaced and the Espeonage wagon was growing, there he is again. And I can almost guarantee that wagon is scum driven. The first two didn't need to be. This one is. If I'm wrong about Esp, I will stfu for the rest of the game. But I'm like 99% Esp is town.

I'm saying that Espeonage didn't jump at the chance to lynch pjo or mindgamer when the wagon was gathering steam.

Like ABR did.

p-edit: no, ceph. nat just misunderstood me.

Did you see my point to Cabd that it seems like really poor scum tactics for ABR to make no real effort to address/dispel his wagon? Doesn't make for good town tactics either. I don't know what to make of it.

[T S O]

you forgot to give your reasoning, Kat.

Oh wait there is none this is OMGUS bs.

[Cephrir]

oh his points against me are horrific, I just can't see how my points are.

We have roughly the same meta experience with Katsuki, considering I was the mod of DotA and I had experience with scum-Kat in NikPick 3. In both games, Katsuki was a lot more combative and troll-y. He didn't really exhibit this same willingness to actually, you know, do things.

PEDIT: Then I guess redact that point, Cabd/ffery.

Katsuki is doing things?

So Cephrir, who do you think is scum?

Aside from ABR my reads are still rather iffy at this point. I'm sure I'll wind up scumlisting at some point, but I'd like to try not to go there just yet.

[Natirasha]

And I think people are bandwagoning a read on Pjovek as Town - he spammed and now he's lurking and I hate that because it's unnatural.

If we're playing the meta game, TSO...Pick Your Partners.

If you want examples, I can give you links to a couple games where I had similar difficulty getting grounded. But...self-meta.

It's alright. Like I said, I think there is one scum in your pair, and the defensiveness is making me side with Cabd right now. I'm not saying you're scum, but come tomorrow(when I have more than four days to figure this out+a round of nightkills to divine results from), I wanna dive into the deep end of this.

I'm flattered, this coming from the master of unreadability himself, but it actually isn't that difficult.

Looks like you changed your mind on ABR though D:

I didn't know I had that reputation. I kinda like having a smokescreen in such a way. And, yeah, ABR's play really turned itself around IMO after that point, starting with...

Pray tell, because they still sound stilted as hell to me.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5468239 I found this post very interesting because of the hypocritical position ABR takes. I do not think scum-ABR takes such a bait.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5468934 The wording+tone of this post is highly indignant and I love it.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5470516 The shut down-and-force-a-lynch tactic is one I use all the time as town because it seems presenting cases really isn't in vogue right vs being a useless ass until people come around(I call it the majiffy school of scumhunting).

That's not to go in with ABR's profile this game--minor accusations of lurking, a sense of detachment, not much content, lots of wagon hops. For a player as skilled as ABR, I find it highly likely he would put this little effort into his scumplay. I mean, by god, this is the guy who posted that egotistical "Objectives As Scum" post in Mafia Discussion a while back. In all, he fits the profile of "scum-approved mislynch to a T".

[Natirasha]

Katsuki is doing things?

More than he does as scum, yes.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Did you see my point to Cabd that it seems like really poor scum tactics for ABR to make no real effort to address/dispel his wagon? Doesn't make for good town tactics either. I don't know what to make of it.

I've seen him as town. He screams a lot more about his own lynch.

[fferyllt]

Did you see my point to Cabd that it seems like really poor scum tactics for ABR to make no real effort to address/dispel his wagon? Doesn't make for good town tactics either. I don't know what to make of it.

I've seen him as town. He screams a lot more about his own lynch.

The only other game I've played with him, he replaced into a slot that was the leading wagon with about a day left to deadline. He didn't do much to move that wagon, but there wasn't much time. he definitely didn't yell about it. I doubt that game has any relevance to what's going on here, though.

Can you suggest a game to read? Maybe my choices for meta-reading weren't so great.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

In all, he fits the profile of "scum-approved mislynch to a T".

I disagree. Your insistence on this is worrying me, nat.

p-edit: sure ffery, meta queen, I will see what I can find. But give me a bit as I'm finishing working/starting drinking.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That wasn't meant to be derisive at all btw lol... utmost respect in that moniker.

[Tammy]

More wine, more time, will finish tonight.

[Tammy]

. However I'm not seeing this supposed empire/tammy thing that Llama seems to.
.

It's completely moot now, but what marble was referring to is what would have happened if empire would have stayed/been more active. Empire and I are friends who hydra together and can read each other pretty well. He was looking to see what would come of the sorting process.

[Katsuki]

you forgot to give your reasoning, Kat.

You received a scum role PM.

^Irrefutable reasoning.

[Katsuki]

Oh yeah Nati is towntowntown.

Please help me lynch ABR and TSO, they're scum. TSO especially (you modded dota so you know how his play there and here differ in addition to his consistant BS of trying to link my play there to here despite it being vastly different).

[projectmatt]

T S O

, why do you scumread me?

Albert's play is shamefully lazy but I'm not exactly letting go of my read on Espeonage here. The thing about Espeonage is that none of the meta that I have on him adds up at all. While comparing his early town play to this one, I saw that when Espeonage is town he tends to be genuinely excited and aggressive. His overall play this game comes off not only as lazy - but as really nervous. It feels like to me that Espeonage isn't actually scumhunting but looking for reasons to accuse people. That might sound like a silly sentence but there's a huge difference between the two.

For example, his method of scumhunting in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=22308 is really hyper and erratic. His conclusions of the mafia aren't based on on big analysis but rather through repeated questioning and pressuring. None of that is here.

After reading that ISO, read all of these posts

It comes off to me like he's willing to give up too easily and isn't actually invested in the game short of coasting long enough to get a lynch. I can understand he hasn't played in a year and a half - but it doesn't change the fact that his game is extremely, extremely sloppy and uncomfortable. That is why my vote will at the moment remain on Espeonage.

[projectmatt]

Hey

fferyllt,

how is my play reminding you of Chosen Mafia?

[fferyllt]

Hey

fferyllt,

how is my play reminding you of Chosen Mafia?

It reminds me of your play in that game mostly in terms of what Nati calls tempo.

You go quiet for periods, and you tend to pop up within a few hours of when your name is mentioned, which makes me think you're probably following the game daily or something close to that.

There's also the quick, short posts with infrequent longer posts interspersed, which also looks a lot like your Chosen ISO And most of your interactions seem to be prompted - sort of like this one, where I mention you, and then within a couple of hours here you are looking all proactive and stuff.

[projectmatt]

Fair enough. Although I would argue my play on Viscon was essentially the same - the only difference being that I had a lot to do at the beginning as I was replacing in. I am following the game, actually. But the days where I have time to actually read the game and post analysis of it at the same time are scarce. The interaction is prompted. You agreed with another play about something and I wanted to see whether or not you had actually read the game or you were just making it up at the top of your head. I'm still planning on making a full post of reads with actual detail but for now you'll have to deal with infrequent content.

[fferyllt]

Fair enough. Although I would argue my play on Viscon was essentially the same - the only difference being that I had a lot to do at the beginning as I was replacing in. I am following the game, actually. But the days where I have time to actually read the game and post analysis of it at the same time are scarce. The interaction is prompted.

You agreed with another play about something and I wanted to see whether or not you had actually read the game or you were just making it up at the top of your head.

I'm still planning on making a full post of reads with actual detail but for now you'll have to deal with infrequent content.

Ah. I was in that game. I was part of the Sound of Silence hydra.

[Natirasha]

In all, he fits the profile of "scum-approved mislynch to a T".

I disagree. Your insistence on this is worrying me, nat.

p-edit: sure ffery, meta queen, I will see what I can find. But give me a bit as I'm finishing working/starting drinking.

Okay, so I ask, what happens if ABR flips town? What happens if ABR flips town?

[Natirasha]

*flips scum

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If ABR flips town, I would be surprised. But if he does, then I'll reevaluate based on that new info. If he flips scum, then I'm happy and will continue to use the method I used to find him in the first place.

[Natirasha]

Oh yeah Nati is towntowntown.

Please help me lynch ABR and TSO, they're scum. TSO especially (you modded dota so you know how his play there and here differ in addition to his consistant BS of trying to link my play there to here despite it being vastly different).

He seems to be doing the same? He has a tendency toward flamey deathtunnels. You know what I'm seeing here? A flamey deathtunnel. I think you're both mispurposed in this fight.

[fferyllt]

Oh yeah Nati is towntowntown.

Please help me lynch ABR and TSO, they're scum. TSO especially (you modded dota so you know how his play there and here differ in addition to his consistant BS of trying to link my play there to here despite it being vastly different).

He seems to be doing the same? He has a tendency toward flamey deathtunnels. You know what I'm seeing here? A flamey deathtunnel. I think you're both mispurposed in this fight.

If one of them flip scum I'll rethink this, but your efforts to stamp out this brushfire with both participants looks town. As scum, you'd have no motivation to decrease the amount of town-generated smoke and heat in the game.

[Katsuki]

Oh yeah Nati is towntowntown.

Please help me lynch ABR and TSO, they're scum. TSO especially (you modded dota so you know how his play there and here differ in addition to his consistant BS of trying to link my play there to here despite it being vastly different).

He seems to be doing the same? He has a tendency toward flamey deathtunnels. You know what I'm seeing here? A flamey deathtunnel. I think you're both mispurposed in this fight.

I couldn't care less if it were flamy. It's the way he's pushing it, it drips scum bloodlust.

[Natirasha]

Do you think TSO would push a case he knows he won't get a lynch on today so hard?