Mafia 59: Hell on Earth - Game over!

[M4yhem]

What I don't understand is, if he knew something about Panzer, why didn't he do more to save him? What's the point of making a vague hint like that? Fircoal must have known he would be asked to explain it further- so why not just say what he knew immediatly; or not say anything at all, if he doesn't want to talk about it?

Which is why I think he's lying. Fircoal, if you want to weigh in on this, that would be nice.

[Jack]

Yeah, the "not sure" part doesn't make sense. That one piece would prove panzers innocence, the other cop wouldn't prove anything with an innocent result and the blocker would be more an indication of guilt. I don't think he was claiming a role.

[Nightfall]

hmm, good question. Town do occassionally attack me, but i generally find more often than not, those who attack me avidly are scum, desperate for an easy lynch. I suppose any protown player can say that, but in my experience it is especially true.
BM

uh huh...

[M4yhem]

It's quiet. A little

too

quiet if you know what I'm saying?

Can I persuade anyone to vote for Fircoal?

[spectrumvoid]

vote: livinggod

I don't like the cases for anyone that hinge on their position on the panzer wagon. The way I see it, panzer was so scummy yesterday, it's his fault he got lynched. I do not blame anyone for pushing panzer, nor the panzer-hammarer. Seriously speaking, I myself would have put the hammer if I was able, because panzer acted way too scummy.

I can also see a vote for Fircoal because of the soft-claim, but I want him to respond first.

[Jalyn]

Crimeny. I've reread the thread a couple of times now and I don't trust any of you. Still, given the setup of this game, I would think that even the mafia would be trying to lynch other mafia at this point. I would think that the mafia groups would probably be trying to lynch the person that the NK failed on as it seems likely that that was due to the "first NK immunity" that both groups have.

That said, I'm going to

vote:livingod

because that post really did look like "Oh shit, cop caught me, claim he's insane or scum."

I'm very open to hearing more from BM, Bogre & Fircoal. After all, at this point, simple odds say that at least 1 of them is scum.

[Kelly Chen]

Vote Count

5 - Bogre (theopor_COD, Jack, livingod, Battle Mage, ~N9V~)
4 - livingod (Akbar, Yosarian2, spectrumvoid, Jalyn)
1 - Fircoal (M4yhem)
1 - Battle Mage (Bogre)

not voting: milkman, Nightfall, Fircoal, TheJiveMachine

With 15 alive and 15 present, it is 8 to lynch!
Deadline: Wed Apr 11

Thursday afternoon I'll prod everyone whose last post was Saturday or earlier. Or earlier if you have special requests.

[Battle Mage]

brilliant work. You choose 3 people seemingly at random, and infer that perhaps one of them is scum. Great!
I dont see your logic that Mafia would be trying to lynch Mafia now. Ideally, Mafia would never lynch their buddies. Its only when they are under pressure that they may do so, but i dont see why NOW is any more pressuring than yesterday or tomorrow.
Unless u meant the fact that the scum groups would be trying to lynch each other, in which case i must say that this ought to always be their intention.
Im quite wary of the fact that there is a large wagon on livingod, matching that on Bogre. Considering his comments at the start of the day, and his hammer yesterday, i would have thought there would have been a popular campaign to lynch him. The fact that we only have about 50% of players inclined to think he is scum, makes me think that possibly some of those on the Livingod wagon are scum. Its not concrete, but its a strong feeling.
On the other hand, please be clear that im not voting him because of his hammer. Its my opinion that those who hammer are no more scummy than those who have voted earlier in the wagon. Those on the wagon who complain about the hammer are hypocrites. MY reason for voting is because Bogre made his vote look so scummy. He didnt even bother to give a decent reason. He appeared like scum who decided it was worth the risk of getting lynched in order to finish someone off.
BM

[milkman]

After rereading, I really don't think Panzer is scum, he seems really honest in his defense. So no hammer.

Akbar: I had that in mind, but later dismissed it when I addressed the setup.
Yos: My reason is that I feel he's either a messed up cop or scum. He can't be a messed up cop, so I think he's scum.

As for why, it's because of his notoriety. The not claiming and pushing for my lynch.

So your only reasoning for the Panzer-wagon happened during the bandwagon? It doesn't even seem that scummy. You didn't make any accusations, so he had to attack back. And the whole cop or scum thing is just one big fallacy.

Ah hell,

vote: livingod

.


PS: Panzer-wagon sounds really cool.

Vote:Livingod

[Jalyn]

brilliant work. You choose 3 people seemingly at random, and infer that perhaps one of them is scum. Great!

I didn't choose three people at random, I chose the three people that have been accused today. Literally, of the people that have votes, I voted for one and said I wanted to hear more from the other three because I understand the arguments behind the votes for them. As for inferring that at least one of them is scum... There are more scum than town. The chance of any three people all being town is low.

I dont see your logic that Mafia would be trying to lynch Mafia now. Ideally, Mafia would never lynch their buddies. Its only when they are under pressure that they may do so, but i dont see why NOW is any more pressuring than yesterday or tomorrow.
Unless u meant the fact that the scum groups would be trying to lynch each other, in which case i must say that this ought to always be their intention.

Of course I meant that mafia groups would be trying to lynch each other, not their own partners. And, yes, it should have been their intention from the start, I was noting that it was more important at this point.

Im quite wary of the fact that there is a large wagon on livingod, matching that on Bogre. Considering his comments at the start of the day, and his hammer yesterday, i would have thought there would have been a popular campaign to lynch him. The fact that we only have about 50% of players inclined to think he is scum, makes me think that possibly some of those on the Livingod wagon are scum. Its not concrete, but its a strong feeling

Which bring me to, I would be incredibly surprised if there isn't some scum on the livingod wagon. That was the whole point of the beginning of my post voting him. I think that there is also quite a bit of scum on Bogre's wagon. My gut feel, at this point, is they're both scum from opposite groups and the opposing team is trying to lynch them. Er. Did that make sense?

[Battle Mage]

Yes, it did make sense, and i agree.
Also, big thanks to Milkman, who has just reminded me of something i noticed yesterday. I may have commented on it earlier, or maybe not, but it was certainly something that struck me as very scummy.
Ill hook it out, but in the meantime,

Unvote

BM

brilliant work. You choose 3 people seemingly at random, and infer that perhaps one of them is scum. Great!

I didn't choose three people at random, I chose the three people that have been accused today. Literally, of the people that have votes, I voted for one and said I wanted to hear more from the other three because I understand the arguments behind the votes for them. As for inferring that at least one of them is scum... There are more scum than town. The chance of any three people all being town is low.

I dont see your logic that Mafia would be trying to lynch Mafia now. Ideally, Mafia would never lynch their buddies. Its only when they are under pressure that they may do so, but i dont see why NOW is any more pressuring than yesterday or tomorrow.
Unless u meant the fact that the scum groups would be trying to lynch each other, in which case i must say that this ought to always be their intention.

Of course I meant that mafia groups would be trying to lynch each other, not their own partners. And, yes, it should have been their intention from the start, I was noting that it was more important at this point.

Im quite wary of the fact that there is a large wagon on livingod, matching that on Bogre. Considering his comments at the start of the day, and his hammer yesterday, i would have thought there would have been a popular campaign to lynch him. The fact that we only have about 50% of players inclined to think he is scum, makes me think that possibly some of those on the Livingod wagon are scum. Its not concrete, but its a strong feeling

Which bring me to, I would be incredibly surprised if there isn't some scum on the livingod wagon. That was the whole point of the beginning of my post voting him. I think that there is also quite a bit of scum on Bogre's wagon. My gut feel, at this point, is they're both scum from opposite groups and the opposing team is trying to lynch them. Er. Did that make sense?

[milkman]

Also, big thanks to Milkman, who has just reminded me of something i noticed yesterday. I may have commented on it earlier, or maybe not, but it was certainly something that struck me as very scummy.
Ill hook it out, but in the meantime,

Unvote

BM

What?

He commented that the Panzer wagon was "really cool" and he seemed very disappointed about not joining it.

Right, I didn't say it was "really cool." I said that it sounded cool. The words "panzer" and "wagon" sound cool together. In fact, I denounced the panzer wagon in the post that you keep referencing.

PS: Panzer wagon still sounds cool.

[Fircoal]

What I don't understand is, if he knew something about Panzer, why didn't he do more to save him? What's the point of making a vague hint like that? Fircoal must have known he would be asked to explain it further- so why not just say what he knew immediatly; or not say anything at all, if he doesn't want to talk about it?

Which is why I think he's lying. Fircoal, if you want to weigh in on this, that would be nice.

Because I was trying to save town. I still have my reasons not to explain why I was defending him.

[Yosarian2]

I notice livingod is posting in several other threads every day, while not posting here at all for the last 4 days. I'm thinking he's just trying to lurk, keep his head down, and hope someone else gets lynched today.

[livingod]

It's because I lost myself in this game.

[Yosarian2]

It's because I lost myself in this game.

...

huh?

[livingod]

Yup. I guess there's something called RL that has made me follow certain games, but not others. I only get to check a certain amount of games, and after a while, the ones I don't check are the ones I get lost in. But I'm still here and still following along.

[M4yhem]

I really hate these vague hints, Fircoal. You haven't really given me much reason to trust you, what with the borderline lurker behavior you're displaying. How about saying who you suspect? You're not voting, why is that?

[Fircoal]

I really hate these vague hints, Fircoal. You haven't really given me much reason to trust you, what with the borderline lurker behavior you're displaying. How about saying who you suspect? You're not voting, why is that?

I suspect Borge the most. I don't usually vote until I'm really sure once it gets to part of days like this. I kind of hate the vague hints, but I have to do them.

[Battle Mage]

i noticed this a few days back, and i remember by complete indignation. However, i cant seem to find the post that i had made on it. At this point Panzerjagger was -1 from lynch. Notice how reluctant he seems to join the wagon, despite openly promoting it. It seemed alot like scum who wanted to hammer, but was worried about looking scummy by doing so. Instead he joined a completely different wagon, but still promoted that wagon strongly.

Vote: Milkman

After rereading, I really don't think Panzer is scum, he seems really honest in his defense. So no hammer.

Akbar: I had that in mind, but later dismissed it when I addressed the setup.
Yos: My reason is that I feel he's either a messed up cop or scum. He can't be a messed up cop, so I think he's scum.

As for why, it's because of his notoriety. The not claiming and pushing for my lynch.

So your only reasoning for the Panzer-wagon happened during the bandwagon? It doesn't even seem that scummy. You didn't make any accusations, so he had to attack back. And the whole cop or scum thing is just one big fallacy.

Ah hell,

vote: livingod

.


PS: Panzer-wagon sounds really cool.

[M4yhem]

Fair enough, Fircoal. I'll have to be satisfied with that for now.

unvote, Vote:Milkman

Not for the reasons BM gave but because I looked back over his posts and noticed a distinct lack of content. Besides, I don't like the other two wagons and I'll never get anywhere on my own.

[spectrumvoid]

I do not buy the excuse for livinggod not checking in. Wouldn't a pro-town naturally check in games where he's falling under suspicion? It seems to me like livinggod is thinking of excuses to get himself off the hook...

m4yhem: that is one really interesting bit of interaction between you and fircoal. I'm not too sure what to think of the fact that you pushed Fircoal for an answer, he didn't give you one, and you said you were satisfied. It seems to me like m4yhem was trying to poke around to out a possible power role.

Also, you're voting milkman for a lack of content when many other people are doing the same.

[Yosarian2]

Again, livingod is acting exactally how I would expect a scum to act this game.

Two factors:

1. The scum have the advantage of numbers, and I would expect there to be a very strong temptation to take advantage of that by using extensive bandwagony voting stuff.

2. The biggest threats to a scum in this game is probably the other scum group and the cop that can find him, and to a lesser extent the roleblocker. So I would also expect scum to try to stay under the radar so as to try and avoid being noticed by people with night actions, which more often target high-profile people.

That's why I tend to think livingod is scum. His bandwagoning, the craplogic he used to support his bandwagoning, and his general attempts to stay under the radar all look like how I would expect a scum to want to act this game.

[Kelly Chen]

Vote Count

5 - livingod (Akbar, Yosarian2, spectrumvoid, Jalyn, milkman)
4 - Bogre (theopor_COD, Jack, livingod, ~N9V~)
2 - milkman (Battle Mage, M4yhem)
1 - Battle Mage (Bogre)

not voting: Nightfall, Fircoal, TheJiveMachine

With 15 alive and 15 present, it is 8 to lynch!
Deadline: Wed Apr 11

Tomorrow afternoon I'll prod everyone whose last post was Saturday or earlier.

[Nightfall]

vote : Livingod

For reasons see Yos's post.