Mini 1522: AA - MFA (Game Over!)

[Mac]

Your question is almost as bad as his is. In fact maybe it's worse. Would you trust a yes/no answer to this, or would you want independent verification? Would you ask a question like this in the first place?

well yeah. i'd expect you to say "check for yourself and come back to me" not snarking straight from the off at slimer for asking a simple question. it's funny how he brought it up and the way you replied as such, reminds me of xenoblade.

It wasn't a simple question. It read as something close to the "have you stopped beating your wife" fallacy, which is why I took exception to it.

maybe so, ill take a second look. i won't lie, my first thought upon seeing your reaction was "holy crap it's xenoffery," obviously referencing xenoblade where you and buldermar filled the thread up. but i could see townffery reacting this way too if you felt it was a loaded question.

how is that waffly?

it's waffly because your one "substantial" read is actually described as "well i don't actually know." you gave yourself a way out in case you had to wriggle.

Speaking of things getting washed away in noise, ohai sorry I missed you.

I touched on it here. Using the term "wagon analysis" loosely

hmmm. do you feel KA is town?

I was looking for what possible mental state that you could have been in that would cause you to do something like that. People who posted after you have no effect on that, so it shouldn't have been part of your response. The bolded statement is actually an answer to that, so I'll drop it as promised.

i answered that question long ago.

I don't care? TNE is gone. The slot is freshly null again until its predecessor starts posting. At least, that's how I go about things.

no no no that is not a good way to approach replacements. ever

pie v kaze is strange. pie didn't come out of it looking too good, meanwhile kaze did. pie felt like caught scum.

Kaze is town.

agreed. the not giving a shit attitude is very telling imo. bert is doing nothing. like holy shit i can't believe it nothing. sakura's response to SSK was horrendous. reaaaally bad. SSK is town.

vote: Sakura

cabd/ffery, what is going down with you two? i see very little pushing from either of you. it worries me.

actually fuck that, i might have to vote brian skies. that some very poor posting imo, but at least any worries about cabd have been erased. town as shit.

[GuyInFreezer]

VoteCount 1.8

Mac (L-6):

KingdomAces

Cabd (L-6):

Brian Skies

KingdomAces (L-6):

Marquis
>

Sakura Hana (L-4):

MafiaSSK | Kazekirimaru | Mac

MafiaSSK (L-6):

Kalimar
>

Brian Skies (L-4):

giest | pieguyn | Sakura Hana

Kazekirimaru (L-6):

theslimer3

Not Voting:

Cabd, Bert

Deadline: (expired on 2013-12-09 10:00:00)
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

----

Mod Notes:

J!

[geists]

cabd/ffery, what is going down with you two? i see very little pushing from either of you. it worries me.

Cabd's apathy-mode doesn't give me a lot to work with, but I'm leaning town based on what I've got. And what I've got increased exponentially over the last 24 hours or so.

Nati isn't townreading him. We'll get to a consensus at some point.

I'm not going to play a certain way just because it makes you or other players more comfortable. I'm going to play the way that makes sense to me based on the game state, the players I need to sort, and my townreads. The overriding factor is my shelf-life.

That said, I don't feel that I've been particularly ambiguous so far.

[pieguyn]

Again, I don't care about the circumstance.

You just dropped one of those minute tells I was talking about, by the way. And it was a scum tell. You tend to victimize yourself in your defense when you're scum(you even used the exact term-"scumpainting/painting me scum" -that I caught onto in your scum meta) but when you're town you lean more towards righteous indignation.

why would you point out said scumtell immediately? if I'm scum all it does is let me know how to avoid it. I don't see the town motivation in doing this 0.0

also, if you don't care about the circumstance than that's the most fucking bullshit thing I've ever seen. you're taking something that's not an example and trying to pass it off as an example. then you're handwaving it under "I don't care about the circumstance". this is practically the definition of twisting my words around so they look scummy. I see no town motivation in the way you're acting

Redacted.

I should leave meta to the experts.

Still, righteous indignation and all that jazz.

I'm finding it hard in this game to be righteously indignated. especially when people vote/scumread me with shit reasons

How in the world do you have a null on Sakura when 1. She's been rather active and 2. You've experimental meta with her and as such should be able to formulate SOME read in a decent fashion by now.

this is bad
first off, what experimental meta do I with her? also why the hell does 2 matter at all? just bc she's done a lot doesn't mean I need to be leaning a specific way on her. she's done some things that lean town and some things that lean scum, so I don't lean either way on her. why do you think this is alignment indicative?

If you're town then you really need to stop this habit of OMGUSing everyone who throws the smallest bit of suspicion in your direction, because you constantly flail like a fish.

"smallest bit of suspicion"
I'm the only person he's scumreading

also his reasons for scumreading me sucked and it seemed opportunistic. why the hell should I NOT point smth that's scummy, just because he's scumreading me? that doesn't make any sense.

speaking of flailing, I love how you accuse me of flailing when you had to keep making posts after declaring you'd "ignore" me earlier

OMGUS much?

do I really have to say this again? why is this a scumtell?

what makes you think this came from scum motivation, rather than town motivation? I was starting to lean scum on him and I saw he voted me without explaining any reasons, so I voted him to get him to explain said reasons, if he had any. then he came up with this whole "reaction test" BS and still didn't answer any of my questions.

[pieguyn]

I'm starting to see SSK town. his push on Sakura is really good

[MafiaSSK]

Whew. That took way longer than I thought or needed it to take.

READS LIST:
Scum: Sakura, geists, one of (Kalimar, pieguy)
Null: Brian Skies, Bert
Town: Mac, KA, Kaze, slimer

And what was up with Kalimar's random vote on me?

I honestly don't see why I'm town here. Especially since I haven't post much most game.

I've said it before, but mostly gut. But the post from which this quote comes from affirms my gut.

VOTE: Kaze
If you flip scum, I'd be happy with Pie or Sakura next.

But to be able to keep it there, you gotta give good reasons for your votes. I see some acknowledgement of possible Kazescum, but no definite reasons. Mind explaining?

[Kazekirimaru]

How does it feel riding the confirmation bias train, pie? Pretty good?

If you're going to shittunnel me at least couple it with a vote in my direction.

[geists]

How does it feel riding the confirmation bias train, pie? Pretty good?

If you're going to shittunnel me at least couple it with a vote in my direction.

Or you could put your vote on the Brian wagon.

[geists]

In fact, Kaze look back at that post. Pie's responding mostly to your points abut his play, not attacking your play.

[Kazekirimaru]

Pie's not just saying I'm wrong, though. He's saying I'm bad, this is bad, I don't see the town motivation here, etc. There's a difference between disagreeing and calling every point someone makes scummy. You can be wrong without being scum.

[pieguyn]

yeah no
if you don't answer my questions, I'm forced to assume you have no answer. so get to it

I get the feeling if you had answered my questions I'd feel a lot more comfortable about you. as it is, there's too much that I don't have an explanation for. which makes me even more convinced bc you're handwaving everything I ask on the basis that you're ignoring my questions. also your "confbias" excuse is still complete bullshit

You can be wrong without being scum.

THE IRONY
LOL

oh right you're scum

[geists]

Pie's not just saying I'm wrong, though. He's saying I'm bad, this is bad, I don't see the town motivation here, etc. There's a difference between disagreeing and calling every point someone makes scummy. You can be wrong without being scum.

I'm not getting nearly so much of a "you're scum" vibe from it as from earlier posts. His viewpoint is extremely self/alignment-centric. If he's town, and feels he's obviously town then it's hard to see attacks as town-motivated.

I seriously wish you'd both give it a rest and look elsewhere for a while, though.

[Kazekirimaru]

oh right you're scum

If you really think that then vote me. If not, stop derping.

Ugh.

You know what? Compile a list of questions that you wish answered and I'll answer them. I'm tired of this. If you still think I'm scum afterwords, more power to you.

[Kazekirimaru]

I seriously wish you'd both give it a rest and look elsewhere for a while, though.

To be fair, seeing either Sakura or Brian lynched toDay is on the top of my list.

[pieguyn]

273, then. My apologies, I am in the wrong in this case.

still doesn't change my point

To be perfectly honest I had no idea who Sakura was voting at the time and I didn't care either, so, of course I wouldn't opine about it.

what Sakura said

why would you point out said scumtell immediately? if I'm scum all it does is let me know how to avoid it. I don't see the town motivation in doing this 0.0

first off, what experimental meta do I with her? also why the hell does 2 matter at all? just bc she's done a lot doesn't mean I need to be leaning a specific way on her. she's done some things that lean town and some things that lean scum, so I don't lean either way on her. why do you think this is alignment indicative?

also his reasons for scumreading me sucked and it seemed opportunistic. why the hell should I NOT point smth that's scummy, just because he's scumreading me?

oh right you're scum

If you really think that then vote me. If not, stop derping.

the same thing applies to you. you're so convinced I'm scum but you're not voting me. while I don't think this is a scumtell, the fact that you're selectively applying this kind of logic pings the shit out of me. one reason I think you're scum is a lot of the logic you used can be applied on yourself. the same thing happened with the "confbias train" for example.

I don't see your lynch happening today, so I rather vote someone else (Brian or mb Sakura)

[Kazekirimaru]

273, then. My apologies, I am in the wrong in this case.

still doesn't change my point

To be perfectly honest I had no idea who Sakura was voting at the time and I didn't care either, so, of course I wouldn't opine about it.

what Sakura said

Not sure what Sakura said. That I should pay more attention to what my scumreads are doing or whatever, right? Meh. Oversights happen.

why would you point out said scumtell immediately? if I'm scum all it does is let me know how to avoid it. I don't see the town motivation in doing this 0.0

Because you already did it? Not like you can avoid what you already did. fferynati already pointed out that the supposed tell is null, anyhow.

first off, what experimental meta do I with her? also why the hell does 2 matter at all? just bc she's done a lot doesn't mean I need to be leaning a specific way on her. she's done some things that lean town and some things that lean scum, so I don't lean either way on her. why do you think this is alignment indicative?

You've played games with her before, have you not? I suppose I just believe that at that stage of the game you would have something other than a null on someone you're familiar with and had associated with several times this game.

also his reasons for scumreading me sucked and it seemed opportunistic. why the hell should I NOT point smth that's scummy, just because he's scumreading me?

Didn't say you shouldn't point out when someone is being scummy, I said that you seem to find everyone who reads you as scum scummy and that's odd.

oh right you're scum

If you really think that then vote me. If not, stop derping.

the same thing applies to you. you're so convinced I'm scum but you're not voting me. while I don't think this is a scumtell, the fact that you're selectively applying this kind of logic pings the shit out of me. one reason I think you're scum is a lot of the logic you used can be applied on yourself. the same thing happened with the "confbias train" for example.

I don't see your lynch happening today, so I rather vote someone else (Brian or mb Sakura)

I've already mentioned a few times about how my scumread on you has been waning as of late. Right now, to me, you're probably my weakest scumread and I'm looking to fix that one way or the other before long. I'm honestly willing to believe that you're just misguided town for the moment. So, no, I'm not "so convinced" you're scum by any stretch. If I were, I wouldn't be trying to sort you or settle things with you in this fashion right now.

[pieguyn]

You've played games with her before, have you not? I suppose I just believe that at that stage of the game you would have something other than a null on someone you're familiar with and had associated with several times this game.

I know her but I can't read her for shit .-.
ask Sakura about this cause I don't feel like going through all the times I've misread her and she can probably explain it better than me anyway > <

Didn't say you shouldn't point out when someone is being scummy, I said that you seem to find everyone who reads you as scum scummy and that's odd.

them being scummy is unrelated to the fact it's me they're scumreading. rather, it's based off their reasons/timing/etc. however, I think it's only natural that you pay more attention to, and are more critical of, people's reads on yourself than others. also if you can call out who you think jumped on you for false reasons, it can be useful even if you get lynched anyway cause your flip will confirm your alignment.

[pieguyn]

do you have any explanation for how you seem to use arguments that can also work against you?

I can see you town for the moment, but I especially want an explanation for that one > <

[Kazekirimaru]

I guess I just don't care if they apply to me because I know I'm town and I know my reasons for doing x and y are town reasons.

[Kazekirimaru]

"I don't care" is probably a fitting motto for my towngame.

I don't care about how I look, how much I bork up, how much people dislike me, etc. as long as I lynch scum.

[Kazekirimaru]

Once it hits the point where I can't gather any support for my reads, however, that's when I know I need to take my foot off the lolpedal and start playing a bit more seriously. Like now.

I'm slow to get totally serious. I know. I'm working on it.

[pieguyn]

meh
honestly this whole thing feels like a massive personality clash. I retract my scumread on you but I don't wanna write you off as 100% town yet > <

I need to go rework my reads since I'm sure I have too many in my town/null-town pile. I had 8 townreads and there's no way in hell they're all town. will post later

[geists]

meh
honestly this whole thing feels like a massive personality clash.

Yeees YEEEEESSS

[theslimer3]

do I really have to say this again? why is this a scumtell?

what makes you think this came from scum motivation, rather than town motivation? I was starting to lean scum on him and I saw he voted me without explaining any reasons, so I voted him to get him to explain said reasons, if he had any. then he came up with this whole "reaction test" BS and still didn't answer any of my questions.

Honestly never said it was.
Just said it.

I've said it before, but mostly gut. But the post from which this quote comes from affirms my gut.

Eh. Scum has a habit of townreading me every game and buddying. Just trowing that out there.

VOTE: Kaze
If you flip scum, I'd be happy with Pie or Sakura next.

But to be able to keep it there, you gotta give good reasons for your votes. I see some acknowledgement of possible Kazescum, but no definite reasons. Mind explaining?

In due time.

[Brian Skies]

this is bad and you should feel bad. you don't point out any specific examples of this or why you think they came from scum motivation? also notice how you weren't pushing me whatsoever this whole time. all your questions that you did ask me seemed derived from what I was asking you and it didn't seem like you were trying to find out anything new. your reasons for scumreading me suck and your attempt to place suspicion on me is opportunistic as fuck

a few questions. when did you start scumreading me? also, remember stack the deck? I attacked you on D1 and you ended up townreading me because of it. what makes this different from there?

I don't feel bad at all because you spent the majority of the early game trying to trap somebody into a scumread (TNE).

The difference between this game and Stack the Deck is that you were interacting with me based on game actions, not meta. I can't read somebody's interactions with me if they're basing it on meta, something that can be faked (and I just watched Nacho do it in the micro I linked you guys).

talking about setting people up to look like scum, why Marquis/Kalimar? is it cuase they're the lurk-ish players that I have a townread on? this doesn't seem legitimate and I'm seeing an intentional attempt to scumpaint me. there's people in this game who have done less than those two (theslimer) and I don't get how this is any different from a null read.

I'm not setting these reads up for anything. I've read through the game once so far and I'm not leaning in any particular direction for these slots. Slimer is special because I attempted a meta-dive on her in my last game and I already know what she's doing doesn't tell me shit.

So I decided to look back at Stack the Deck, and realized something's odd, Brian's saying he usually keeps his RVS vote on someone until he finds something decent to pursuit, yet on that game he voted his RVS and then someone else on Page 1.

I just do whatever I want in the RVS stage. But outside of it, my votes don't move all that much. It's not even alignment indicative for me because I do it as both alignments.

Um, hello? You should know damn well I've been out of town.

Um, hello? Why am I not getting the same treatment when I was on V/LA? For the holiday season?

lol this is hilarious.

Glad you enjoyed it.

This looks like scum nervous that they've been pulled into the spotlight and they're just trying to get back on the faceless townie opinion train where they can coast safely again.

No, the pressure in my direction sucks (even though I actually like the attention), I've stated so, and I've been completely honest about everything.

The case so far on me has been: I did X as town in Game Y but not in this game. I was scum in Game Z, but even though there are no connections between me and Game Z, the lack of connections between me and Game Y makes me scum. :shrugs: Maybe when you guys mislynch me I won't have to deal with these bullshit meta-reads anymore.