Micro 273: There is Trouble in Paradise (Game Over)

[Citizen M]

It's at Delta's post about me voting you but not attacking you

YET

[Citizen M]

As an addendum to the above, PhD accused me of the same thing in post 163 (although ironically reversed).


OK, my position on this game after a re read is that I can't read most of the people in this game because they have anime avatars, so the best thing to do is to lynch somebody useless and move on to day 2.

[Wisdom]

I guess I can buy citizen-town

Maybe it's just delta/katarina then.

[Kazekirimaru]

If the scumteam I've been calling since page three were the scumteam...wouldn't that be a trip? Unprecedented, really.

[YellowKingValley]

You'll see more of me!

When? And are you going to answer my questions in post 76?

@Kaze, perhaps I should say great players?

[YellowKingValley]

you know what also pisses me off: the idea that you have to

1. have a top suspect at all times

and 2. vote that suspect at all times


how stupid

I agree that is stupid. However, if you

1. Don't have suspects at all

2. Not bothered to find suspects

Then something is fishy about you.

[Kazekirimaru]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Delta

YKV, your vote still on Delta? We should push this through, already.

[RachMarie]

A fair amount of discussion goes on and it is not even yet lunch time. A few votes move around, but we still more or less have the same front runner... Seems that this is not a group who loves bacon. Such a shame, bacon is very tasty, especially with eggs....




Vote Count 1.02

Deltabacon (3) Kagami, YellowKingValley, Kazekirimaru, (L-2)
Citizen M (1) Deltabacon
Kagami (2) Katarina LeBlanc, JasonWazza
YellowKingValley (1) PhDScar,
Katarina LeBlanc (1) Wisdom
Wisdom (1) Citizen M


Not Voting



With 9 it takes 5 to lynch


Deadline is in (expired on 2013-12-27 01:09:33)



Mod notes:

I was going to make a VC after i got some work stuff done and the site went down bleh. It is doing that a fair bit lately due to the process of switching things over so please bear with it.

[JasonWazza]

Disappointing answer. Either he's too busy to read and refuses to admit it, or he is trying to derail Delta's lynch by getting some votes to himself before acting town and pushing them to someone else.

Or those are really my scum reads.

What makes you think if i start acting what you seem to think is town, that i will have control of where votes go?

If nothing else, this paranoia is what makes kagami town. Why do you think otherwise, Jason?

Maybe i think i'm in your head enough to know that, maybe just confidence, take your pick

I really don't see Kagami scum. It seems to me like you're throwing her in your scum pile solely because she's not going meta-crazy a few IRL days into the game(that's the only reason you've given) and I just think that's not a good enough reason.

Do i really have to give you all every reason that she is scum? NO

That's not my job, if i gave you all the reasons she's scum, we'd get no different reactions to votes to her would we?

Did JasonWazza lurk solely because he is afraid of / trying to mess up Kagami's metastat?

No because i didn't lurk.

You seem to be missing that key fact.

For using the supposedly effective and accurate metastat, Kagami will only paint herself into a corner in later days as scum. Why the hurry to lynch her early unless you are trying to silence her before you are found out?

For good players, if they can't find scum by D2 or D3, they are highly likely scum, and should be lynched only by then. Before the cutoff point, town will always try make sure good players survive. What JasonWazza proposed is not town motivated.

All that are assuming that Kagami is good of course. If she is mediocre and her metastat no better than random chances, then perhaps JasonWazza has a point. Even then, stats require time for data gathering.

Or your idea of what me as scum does is completely and utterly stupid, did you consider that?

Nobody but wisdom has enough games to reliably evaluate their play computationally, the metaputer may not show up at all. It overfits like crazy right now anyway.

I started around the same time as wisdom, so my question is this, how has he got enough games for meta, but not me?

You seem to be avoiding people in this "enough games for meta" bullshit.

[PhDScar]

I started around the same time as wisdom, so my question is this, how has he got enough games for meta, but not me?

You seem to be avoiding people in this "enough games for meta" bullshit.

You seem to be avoiding why she's scum with "not my job" BS. Yes I understand you don't want to put down a case so that people will all just sheep you and it would be hard to tell scum from town on the wagon. I'm guessing that's what you mean, it makes the most sense, but if you call a person scum that everyone thinks is town and put nothing forward, not attempting to actually get people to lynch who you think is scum and are happy to sit back and let the game play out is scummy.

Also just because you started playing at the same time as Wisdom does not mean you have the same amount of games to check for meta.
VOTE: Jason

[JasonWazza]

No but it does mean my meta has about the same establishment.

And no i don't plan to hold your hands in telling you the story of how Kagami is scum, ISO her yourself and find out if you believe me or not.

[Kagami]

...

Nobody but wisdom has enough games to reliably evaluate their play computationally, the metaputer may not show up at all. It overfits like crazy right now anyway.

I started around the same time as wisdom, so my question is this, how has he got enough games for meta, but not me?

You seem to be avoiding people in this "enough games for meta" bullshit.

You are correct, I have 49 games from you (9 as mod) and 52 from wisdom (2 as mod). For some reason, I had thought you were a newer player.

[Kazekirimaru]

And no i don't plan to hold your hands in telling you the story of how Kagami is scum, ISO her yourself and find out if you believe me or not.

You must not care enough to see her lynched, then.

[Kazekirimaru]

I mean, I've been playing this game since it started(believe it or not :O!) and I haven't seen a single thing to make me think Kagami is scum.

So either I missed something damning, or you're wrong.

Since you obviously think she's scum, you obviously think I'm missing something.

Shouldn't townies want to set other townies straight? Make people see their point and synch up with them? No? Kay then. I was just under the impression Mafia was, you know, a social game.

[PhDScar]

And no i don't plan to hold your hands in telling you the story of how Kagami is scum, ISO her yourself and find out if you believe me or not.

You must not care enough to see her lynched, then.

That's what I said.
@Jason We aren't asking you to carry us through the game we are asking you to explain yourself, and actually attempt to lynch scum.
This means a case, or at least an explanation other than, they haven't used meta yet, which has been pointed out to be not true.

[Kagami]

Also, I can't really defend myself if I don't know why I'm attacked...

[Kazekirimaru]

Also, I can't really defend myself if I don't know why I'm attacked...

Ugh.

Kagami.

Why'd you say this?

I was feeling so good about townyou and then you said this. ._.

[Kagami]

O.O

[Kazekirimaru]

Feeling the need to defend yourself and feeling like you're attacked. That generally doesn't come from a townie with one solitary vote upon them.

[YellowKingValley]

Or your idea of what me as scum does is completely and utterly stupid, did you consider that?

Considering I pin you as scum in my first game with you...

Also, I can't really defend myself if I don't know why I'm attacked...

Ugh.

Kagami.

Why'd you say this?

I was feeling so good about townyou and then you said this. ._.

There are differences between

Jason: My gut feeling says Kagami is scummy...
and
Jason: So many slips. Kagami is scum...

Jason is saying the latter.

By being ambiguous, Jason achieved few different objectives. All are scum motivated.
1) Spares himself from making up accusations. Thus we could not check his consistency in thought process.
2) Allowing himself a way out when Kagami flips town. If he didn't commit, he can make up excuses later that make him less scummy.
3) Let others who join the wagon think up stretched accusations to try justify Jason's accusations. The sheep are good lynch bait once Kagami flips town.
4) Prevent Kagami from defending herself.

[Kagami]

Feeling the need to defend yourself and feeling like you're attacked. That generally doesn't come from a townie with one solitary vote upon them.

I just kind of like addressing complaints as soon as they appear.

[Kazekirimaru]

By being ambiguous, Jason achieved few different objectives. All are scum motivated.
1) Spares himself from making up accusations. Thus we could not check his consistency in thought process.
2) Allowing himself a way out when Kagami flips town. If he didn't commit, he can make up excuses later that make him less scummy.
3) Let others who join the wagon think up stretched accusations to try justify Jason's accusations. The sheep are good lynch bait once Kagami flips town.
4) Prevent Kagami from defending herself.

Except a half-decent town wouldn't push a wagon based on an empty accusation. I don't think Jason really thought he could get Kagami lynched just by pointing and shouting "scum!" And if he did, that's hilarious.

[PhDScar]

I doubt he wants the wagon to go anywhere. It's just a good excuse to do nothing all day.

[JasonWazza]

Or your idea of what me as scum does is completely and utterly stupid, did you consider that?

Considering I pin you as scum in my first game with you...

Woopdefuckingdoo

There is a difference between my normal scum and that (that was after a reasonable sized break from playing mafia to any sort of standard)

Also, I can't really defend myself if I don't know why I'm attacked...

Ugh.

Kagami.

Why'd you say this?

I was feeling so good about townyou and then you said this. ._.

There are differences between

Jason: My gut feeling says Kagami is scummy...
and
Jason: So many slips. Kagami is scum...

Jason is saying the latter.

By being ambiguous, Jason achieved few different objectives. All are scum motivated.
1) Spares himself from making up accusations. Thus we could not check his consistency in thought process.
2) Allowing himself a way out when Kagami flips town. If he didn't commit, he can make up excuses later that make him less scummy.
3) Let others who join the wagon think up stretched accusations to try justify Jason's accusations. The sheep are good lynch bait once Kagami flips town.
4) Prevent Kagami from defending herself.

Point out where i said she sliped ever.

Also i'm more sparing myself from putting in effort.

By being ambiguous, Jason achieved few different objectives. All are scum motivated.
1) Spares himself from making up accusations. Thus we could not check his consistency in thought process.
2) Allowing himself a way out when Kagami flips town. If he didn't commit, he can make up excuses later that make him less scummy.
3) Let others who join the wagon think up stretched accusations to try justify Jason's accusations. The sheep are good lynch bait once Kagami flips town.
4) Prevent Kagami from defending herself.

Except a half-decent town wouldn't push a wagon based on an empty accusation. I don't think Jason really thought he could get Kagami lynched just by pointing and shouting "scum!" And if he did, that's hilarious.

That wasn't the plan, but i was expecting people to at least re-read her, which they seem to not have done.

I doubt he wants the wagon to go anywhere. It's just a good excuse to do nothing all day.

I want the wagon to go places, otherwise my vote wouldn't be there.

[Wisdom]

How do you expect the wagon to go anywhere if you don't put in any effort to show us why we should vote her?