Micro 276 Peek a Boo! Mafia GAME OVER

[Majiffy]

Seriously get the fuck out of this game. You have demonstrated a clear lack of reading comprehension, logical progression of thought, and now a complete inability to grasp simple setup mechanics.

You are by far the worst mafia player I have ever had the misfortune of playing with multiple times.

Good day, sir.

[Majiffy]

It's neither pro-town nor logical to use Watch when there's a dead Miller, but you did it anyway.
And we also have Jingle also trying to submit a kill.
So, what

should

happen is not necessarily what happens.

Explain to me why it is not pro-town or logical to use a watch with a dead miller, given what we know about this setup.
Explain to me why Jingle trying to submit a kill refutes my logic, rather than supports JingleScum.

Do you have inside knowledge of JingleTown?

[Majiffy]

And beyond that, explain to me why a player acting illogically and anti-town refutes the argument that the action was anti-town and illogical.

[Wisdom]

You have demonstrated a clear lack of reading comprehension, logical progression of thought, and now a complete inability to grasp simple setup mechanics.

No, that's what you're demonstrating here.

[Majiffy]

adsfdgh

I can't fucking even anymore.

Can we please policy lynch Wisdom?

[Wisdom]

Explain to me why it is not pro-town or logical to use a watch with a dead miller, given what we know about this setup.
Explain to me why Jingle trying to submit a kill refutes my logic, rather than supports JingleScum.

Do you have inside knowledge of JingleTown?

Because a miller suggests the existence of a cop. The pro-town thing to do was investigate. One of us would get a result.
Jingle trying to submit a kill shows that there are people who thought "maybe I am scum, let's try killing" and submitted a kill. Which supports my logic.
I do know if Jingle is town but I don't think that the lying shooter would claim "I tried to shoot Om". And besides, the way he described his thought process looked genuine enough.

[Wisdom]

And beyond that, explain to me why a player acting illogically and anti-town refutes the argument that the action was anti-town and illogical.

That's not what I'm trying to refute. The action maybe was anti-town and illogical, the point is that it could still happen. You are assuming it didn't happen just because it was anti-town and illogical.

[Wisdom]

I do know if Jingle is town

do not*

[Wisdom]

Now tell me this.

Assume Om has a ridiculously low percentage (say 5%), which made him claim a ridiculously high one. Why look at his role PM (which means he won't be getting any bonuses) instead of just assuming he most likely is scum and try to shoot someone?

Now assume the liar, someone other than Om, also has a low percentage and also fakeclaimed something relatively high. Instead of looking at their role PM (and stopping getting any bonuses), they assumed they are most likely scum and tried to shoot someone. When they saw they succeeded, they lied about their night action.

Which one makes the most sense?

[Om of the Nom]

So has anybody used my actions today to determine my alignment or are we just going to go on WIFOM NKA?

[Majiffy]

Because a miller suggests the existence of a cop. The pro-town thing to do was investigate. One of us would get a result.

'Suggests'

We cannot rule out the possibility of the miller being added because of the

future existence

of a cop - knowing what we know about the setup - or a false positive for balancing purposes. Both of these are very plausible realities.

So, whereas a cop investigation is a very specific investigative report that could very well be spent on a dead player, I decided to use an investigative report that casts a wide net - watching - on a highly likely target - a 99% claimed town probability player.

This player is likely to be the target of doc protection, cop investigations, mafia kills, etc.

A watch is

the

most pro-town and logical move to make.


So you're wrong there, lets move on to where else you're wrong;

Jingle trying to submit a kill shows that there are people who thought "maybe I am scum, let's try killing" and submitted a kill. Which supports my logic.

Jingle trying to submit a kill shows that there are idiots who think "Hey you know I've got a good chance at being town but instead of doing anything that could possibly help me if I AM town, I am going to take an anti-town action, to see if I AM an anti-town role, so that my playstyle can thusly be negatively effected in the thread where players are actively looking for other players that know their alignment to be anti-town. This sounds like the most logical and sound action I could possibly take as either alignment!"
So if your logic is supported by this being a logical move, your argument supports my logic that you suck at this game.

I do know if Jingle is town but I don't think that the lying shooter would claim "I tried to shoot Om". And besides, the way he described his thought process looked genuine enough.

That still requires

more

players to take

actively

anti-wincon - not to mention incredibly stupid - actions.

It's a really poor position to take, given that we

know

there is a player who

read

their role PM and could very plausibly be scum.

[Majiffy]

And beyond that, explain to me why a player acting illogically and anti-town refutes the argument that the action was anti-town and illogical.

That's not what I'm trying to refute. The action maybe was anti-town and illogical, the point is that it could still happen. You are assuming it didn't happen just because it was anti-town and illogical.

I'm assuming we shouldn't start there when we have better, more likely avenues to take.

Assume Om has a ridiculously low percentage (say 5%), which made him claim a ridiculously high one. Why look at his role PM (which means he won't be getting any bonuses) instead of just assuming he most likely is scum and try to shoot someone?

So he would know who his partner is, and

what

his partner is.

Also what power roles may be available to him.

Now assume the liar, someone other than Om, also has a low percentage and also fakeclaimed something relatively high. Instead of looking at their role PM (and stopping getting any bonuses), they assumed they are most likely scum and tried to shoot someone. When they saw they succeeded, they lied about their night action.

Which one makes the most sense?

Om being scum. It requires less conditionals to complete.

So has anybody used my actions today to determine my alignment or are we just going to go on WIFOM NKA?

We haven't actually gotten past anything other than Wisdom having his head shoved up his ass.

Do you have anything worthwhile to add, or should I move my vote to you?

[Wisdom]

A watch is the most pro-town and logical move to make.

lol, and then you say I am unable to think logically.

How the fuck is watching a logical thing? What did you have pointing in a watcher being included in the setup? Nothing? I thought so. While there was a miller, which pointed to an existence of a cop. Sure, it could be a false positive, it could be weird setup mechanics, but it STILL was the only clue anyone had as to what PR they could possibly be. Why would anyone think that they are a watcher?

You're completely unreasonable and lacking common sense, which means you are arguing just to argue. You know I'm right.

[Wisdom]

Jingle trying to submit a kill shows that there are idiots who think "Hey you know I've got a good chance at being town but instead of doing anything that could possibly help me if I AM town, I am going to take an anti-town action, to see if I AM an anti-town role, so that my playstyle can thusly be negatively effected in the thread where players are actively looking for other players that know their alignment to be anti-town. This sounds like the most logical and sound action I could possibly take as either alignment!"
So if your logic is supported by this being a logical move, your argument supports my logic that you suck at this game.

This is all irrelevant.
The point is one.
There are people who would submit a kill action, whether you find that logical or not.
Which means my theory is perfectly plausible.

[Wisdom]

That still requires more players to take actively anti-wincon

How is it anti-wincon when they don't know their wincon?

Once again, why are you assuming that people have the percentages they claimed instead of low ones?

[Wisdom]

So he would know who his partner is, and what his partner is.

He didn't need to do that. Not when it would put him under suspicion AND stop him from receiving any bonuses. He could just guess or assume the one the mod gave him is most likely the partner.

[Majiffy]

How the fuck is watching a logical thing?

an investigative report that casts a wide net - watching - on a highly likely target - a 99% claimed town probability player.

This player is likely to be the target of doc protection, cop investigations, mafia kills, etc.

What did you have pointing in a watcher being included in the setup?

Oh, I don't know, maybe because POWER ROLES ARE BEING HANDED OUT LIKE CANDY. WATCHERS AND TRACKERS ARE THE NORM WITH POWER-HEAVY SETUPS.

Fucking moron.

Why would anyone think that they are a watcher?

Why would anyone assume they should play like scum when they have a better chance of winning

as either alignment

by playing assuming they are town?

You're completely unreasonable and lacking common sense, which means you are arguing just to argue. You know I'm right.

Yeah, that's totally it. You got me, Wisdom, you clever dog, you.

[Wisdom]

Om being scum. It requires less conditionals to complete.

Not really.
The one that makes the most sense is the person with the low percentage not reading their role PM and just attempting to shoot someone. That way, they both confirm if they are actually scum, and they don't lose the benefit of getting the bonuses.

[Om of the Nom]

So has anybody used my actions today to determine my alignment or are we just going to go on WIFOM NKA?

We haven't actually gotten past anything other than Wisdom having his head shoved up his ass.

Do you have anything worthwhile to add, or should I move my vote to you?

Well look I think if anyone's lying about percentages it's likely ETL (mainly gut). Wisdom is probably telling the truth. You're likely scum, and so is Nati (gut paired with low percentages). Jingle is probably town. Uctriton I was having bad gut feelings earlier but they seem to have subsided.

Idk man I'm just kinda sitting here on the sidelines laughing at this debate because I'm in the center of it and I don't even care. I can't defend against the shit being thrown against me because it would just be WIFOM. So I'll just accept the fact that you guys are fighting over it like children and need to calm down :~)

[Wisdom]

Why would anyone assume they should play like scum when they have a better chance of winning as either alignment by playing assuming they are town?

They actually have a better chance of winning if they learn they are scum and actually kill people.
Which is what was achieved.

[Wisdom]

Oh, I don't know, maybe because POWER ROLES ARE BEING HANDED OUT LIKE CANDY. WATCHERS AND TRACKERS ARE THE NORM WITH POWER-HEAVY SETUPS.

Fucking moron.

Once again.
A person doesn't know what role they have.
A miller flips.
The person gets a slight hint that they might be a Cop. They don't get any such thing for a Watcher, or any other role.
What's the logical thing to do? Try to investigate.

[Majiffy]

This is all irrelevant.
The point is one.
There are people who would submit a kill action, whether you find that logical or not.
Which means my theory is perfectly plausible.

Plausible, sure, but not the optimum direction to go in.

One does not assume that the night kill comes from a player who does not know their role is more likely to be scum submitting a kill (an illogical and anti-wincon action to take) when there is a player who has read their role PM and has an easy claim to cover behind.

WHICH IS MY FUCKING POINT.

That still requires more players to take actively anti-wincon

How is it anti-wincon when they don't know their wincon?

Once again, why are you assuming that people have the percentages they claimed instead of low ones?

It doesn't matter what percentage they have.

Optimum strategy for scum in this game - and every other game - is to play like town, so as not to be caught by

scumhunting.

This is a setup where scum can

legitimately get away without having to know they are scum.

Knowing they are scum will taint their play, and enable them to more likely be caught by

scumhunting.

Ergo,

it is optimum strategy as scum to not try to figure out if you are scum, and just play as town.

And I shouldn't have to explain how playing to find out if you're scum is anti-town for a townie.

He didn't need to do that. Not when it would put him under suspicion AND stop him from receiving any bonuses. He could just guess or assume the one the mod gave him is most likely the partner.

Having a PR you know about (town doesn't know theirs) and knowing who your partner is (without having to worry about them trying to distance from you) are two very effective things to have in this particular setup.

[Majiffy]

Oh my fucking god.

[Majiffy]

Seriously, Wisdom? Seriously?

[Om of the Nom]

You know what I'd laugh if Who tried to kill himself and succeeded.


But seriously you two need to stop arguing about whose logic is better and just accept that neither of you see the ideal options in the same way.