Open 544: Tit for Tat (Game Over)

[Sakura Hana]

Vote Count 1.03

Flames of Disaster (3) - Tlachta C, Captain Picard, Hopkirk

Captain Picard (3) - Lincolm, Flames of Disaster, No Stone Unturned

Not Voting (6) - Malakittens, Celebloki, Saki, Lorantheceae, Ibarra, MTD

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Please let me know if you see any mistakes

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2014-01-31 06:08:00)

sakura <3

Hi <3

[Flames of Disaster]

In other news, Hello everyone! This is the debut of the Pie/Varsoon hydra! I'll try to keep up with signing my posts, so you don't get confused.

It is very obvious who is Varsoon and who is pieguyrn, actually, but ok.

I feel that there are large amounts of scum on my wagon, could a powerful town play help to identify the scum wagon hoppers?

Defensive May not be a scum tell, but the snarky tone of that post should be an indicator of scum itself .

to lincolm : the original vote on Picard was a omgus vote. However, it is now a serious vote.

Why do you always ask town for help instead of doing some work yourself, until now I think you have only said your thoughts on Picard and even in that there was always "town, please investigate" and things like that.

What did you want me to do then? 'Scum please help me?'

I have already made my stance clear that the actions of Picard are scummy. I am highlighting the postular evidence that makes me think that way, and I would like town to draw their own conclusions or interpretations and see if they can come to the same conclusion as me.

Scum do not provide postular evidence. That is different.

This is my rationale for asking town to investigate the scummy posts that I find from certain users .

[Loranthaceae]

VOTE: Celebloki

Talking about rvs is totally useless. Your guess about how Flames vs Picard started is adding to the flame without really justifying your stance or why we should pay attention to it.

Same with Mala to a lesser extent, I fail to see the purpose of the post. The last part part about defensiveness leaves way for interpretation. Are you defending Picard, buddying up to him or just stating your annoyance about defensiveness being a tell? If I should believe the latter you need to specify what else needs to happen in order to make it one.

@Lincolm I said if his statistics apply to him he should be 75% scum because he didn't rv. But he said RV = 75% scum.

[Malakittens]

I'm just stating my annoyance at it because everyone keeps bringing up "AtE, defensiveness" as an argument against someone for being scum, but in all reality it's a null tell.

[Flames of Disaster]

I'm just stating my annoyance at it because everyone keeps bringing up "AtE, defensiveness" as an argument against someone for being scum, but in all reality it's a null tell.

What do you think about the Picard's post in question? You've made your stance on defensiveness clear, but never actually provided an opinion on the matter.

[Captain Picard]

I'm going to drop the schtik for now, but glad I did it for my first few posts, you will see why eventually:

Scum will usually try to copy the predecessor's arguments or reasoning while pretending not to looks suspicious, in order to push for a potential mislync

Except I wasn't copying my predecessors arguments or reasoning, like I said, when I started my post she hadn't even posted, I will prove this to you later, but I just want you to look at that.

So, you can't make your own statistic, heh? K K

Sure you can, but in my post I explained why I didn't like it, he tried to pass it off as irrefutable evidence, then admitted lol-just my observations guyze!

Not necessarily but as town I would expect him to at least say that he is sheeping and not just come up with some poor reason

This is making my skin crawl, the way you worded that "but as town" it's almost like you KNOW I'm town... I'll chalk that up to a giving me the benefit of the doubt?

Something feels off about flames. Could be the newness though.

I was thinking the same, but there is this gem:

My vote is my weapon. I can vote anybody I like.

So I am pretty sure he is not new to mafia, as that is something I have read a lot of times in games/theory

^ opportunistic as fuck

Which part is opportunistic? Me voting for someone who said someone was scum in their opinion but not voting them? Or the fact my post happened to just come after someone elses vote on them?

wtf is this? you admit that your read on ibarra was weak bc you had no reads at the time, but he explained how there was legit town motivation in that statistic he made up and you're still painting it as scummy re: "giving him a pass"? I also don't like how you try to write it off bc "lol I'm suspecting these other people now". it feels like you're scared to admit you're wrong and now you're backpedaling bc other people are rethinking their reads on him

I didn't really have a "read" on him at that time, not a lot had happened, as you can tell from my post the vote was kinda a joke, with the gadget being low on batteries, but at the time he was my favorite person to put a vote on for the made up statistics.

Defensive May not be a scum tell, but the snarky tone of that post should be an indicator of scum itself .

So, snarky is a scum tell? What really IS the reasoning you are voting me?

First you said it was because I was annoying, then you said ok, that was just a OMGUS vote really guyze, but he is scum because he is snarky?

You're going to have a REALLY hard time on this site if you think snarky is a scumtell.

Or your reason is because I copied the person above me? Which is why I also think that No Stone Unturned is on me.

However, you are flailing, and while that in itself is not scummy, you are not SCUMHUNTING, and that IS scummy.

Also, No Stone Unturned hops on, first post is to vote me and question others why they are voting Flame. Now, if I was a paranoid guy, I might think they logged in, saw a scum buddy flailing and jumped on the next largest bandwagon? Though, you have your "Opportunistic as fuck" excuse, so if I am right in that you are calling it that because I posted shortly after someone else...

Remember at the top where I said I was going to stop using the schtik, but I was glad I did it? Well, the reason I am glad I did it now is because those stardates were not made up numbers. They were the time I started the post to the exact second:

http://www.hillschmidt.de/gbr/sternenzeit.htm

Put in the stardate, you will see, the time January 17, 2014, Time: 09:26:09 when I started the post, aat least a full 3 minutes before the first vote on him.

So, that is 2 votes on me that look REALLY bad now, since your reasoning for them just got blown the fuck up.

BOOYAH!

[Tlachta C]

Eh, people voting Flames.
Tlachta, please explain.
Picard looks like he is just following and making up some reason on the way, i sure don't like that.

Unvote

No vote jet but
FoS: Picard
Pedit: I agree that RVS should not happen now

I voted him because of that wishywashy post I quoted. He says Ibiarria is 'possibly full of bullshit' and then says he's scum, but doesn't vote him? That doesn’t give me the townie feelz.

[Tlachta C]

Ibarria and Pickard are both town

[Tlachta C]

MTD: Do you consider sheeping to be a scumtell?

Not necessarily but as town I would expect him to at least say that he is sheeping and not just come up with some poor reason

His reasoning loked quite sound to me.
why is it poor?

[Tlachta C]

two tasty wagons
which one
do i hop on

Vote Flames for victory!

[Flames of Disaster]

Picard looks town now after that post. I severely dislike the above post for its strong attempt to push a lynch without solid reasoning. Her nitpicking of where I put my vote itself is the scummiest reasoning possible. The fact that she attempts to push a lynch based on where I put my vote is shallow and is clearly an attempt at mislynch. It is predicted that she will make up some reasoning for voting me along the day and will strongly rally for a bad lynch under suspicious circumstances and premises.

vote tla

[Ibarra]

Picard looks town now after that post. I severely dislike the above post for its strong attempt to push a lynch without solid reasoning. Her nitpicking of where I put my vote itself is the scummiest reasoning possible. The fact that she attempts to push a lynch based on where I put my vote is shallow and is clearly an attempt at mislynch. It is predicted that she will make up some reasoning for voting me along the day and will strongly rally for a bad lynch under suspicious circumstances and premises.

vote tla

The reasoning behind this vote is wrong on so many levels:
1) If you read her post before, Tla already explained why she voted for you. Her latest post wasn't exactly a "strong attempt to push a lynch without solid reasoning".
2) How exactly is pushing a lynch based on where you place a vote shallow? Votes and where you put them are a great way of establishing reads. e.g. bandwagon analysis
3) Your two last sentences are preempting that voting you with Tla on the wagon is scummy.

Vote: Flames

ATM, it looks like you're grasping for straws for voting someone.

[Captain Picard]

Ibarria and Pickard are both town

I'm undecided on both you and Ibarria yet, you are both leaning towards town, you moreso, but I just think in terms of town/scum, on a scale of 1 - 10, 1 being scum and 10 being town, you are probably a 7, Ib is a 5(null).

Picard looks town now after that post. I severely dislike the above post for its strong attempt to push a lynch without solid reasoning. Her nitpicking of where I put my vote itself is the scummiest reasoning possible. The fact that she attempts to push a lynch based on where I put my vote is shallow and is clearly an attempt at mislynch. It is predicted that she will make up some reasoning for voting me along the day and will strongly rally for a bad lynch under suspicious circumstances and premises.

vote tla

Again, not scumhunting, you are flailing. If you are town, I hope you learn from this, you are coming across REALLY scummy, as you are doing OMGUS votes, and have yet to respond to why Tla and I both voted you.

We had a fine reason for voting you. You basically said "XXXX is SCUM" but then you didn't place a vote on them.

You haven't done anything since to convince me you are looking for scum, you are kinda just wishy washy.

Anyhow, if Flames flip scum, I think NTU is scum as well. And because I want a scummie, I will pick the third scum member as well, but I cannot because people haven't posted enough.

If I had a gun to my head, I'd say Hopkirk.

[Captain Picard]

@ Flames:

What are your thoughts on No Stone Unturned?

[Celebloki]

The fact that anyone is pushing for a lynch halfway through the second day irks me. We have almost two weeks until the deadline, we have no reason to rush this. It seems to me that multiple people are pushing for a lynch for flimsy reasons. I agree that votes can be used well for pressure at this point, but people like Flames, Picard, tla seem to be jumping the gun quite early on ending the day. Only scum want to rush through the day phase.

[Captain Picard]

The fact that anyone is pushing for a lynch halfway through the second day

Second day?

Did I miss something?

Care to give us your reads? You are all concerned about us not rushing the day, please, give us your thoughts.

[Celebloki]

I meant real day, not Mafia day. Don't be obtuse. Currently I have no real solid reads besides the people pushing for lynches( i.e tla going after Flames, Piacard being butt hurt at Flames for calling him annoying, Flames being annoyed at Picard because of his admittedly hilarious posting style) It's anti-town to rush the day phase is all I am saying and I find people pushing for lynches this early to be scummy.

[MTD]

@Captain: It is nice that you put in the stardates , but
1. You could easily have faked them and
2. Why should we believe that it is not possible that you looked at posts being made in the meantime?

@Tla: Picard's only reason back then was trhat Flames didn't vote and I don't think that's a great argument when flames stated himself, that he is not sure.

however, as I said:

Vote:Flames

[Ibarra]

The fact that anyone is pushing for a lynch halfway through the second day irks me. We have almost two weeks until the deadline, we have no reason to rush this. It seems to me that multiple people are pushing for a lynch for flimsy reasons. I agree that votes can be used well for pressure at this point, but people like Flames, Picard, tla seem to be jumping the gun quite early on ending the day. Only scum want to rush through the day phase.

What's giving you the idea they want to end the game early?
Forming a wagon against someone early won't exactly end that day automatically (well unless someone quickhammers which REALLY scummy).
In fact, it will eventually give us more stuff to discuss about.

P-Edit:
Assuming the Day does end early yes, but like I said, pushing for a lynch early =/= that person will be lynched early.
It's when someone's at L-1 when a ton of discussion usually takes place.

[Lincolm]

No Stone Unturned (Varsoon + pieguyn hydra)

just saw this

damn that is one sexy hydra

Nope. It is terrible hydra. One of them should join with me to make that hydra.

@Lincolm I said if his statistics apply to him he should be 75% scum because he didn't rv. But he said RV = 75% scum.

I noticed it, but I thought that's an error at writing. I can see the logic behind that.

So, you can't make your own statistic, heh? K K

Sure you can, but in my post I explained why I didn't like it, he tried to pass it off as irrefutable evidence, then admitted lol-just my observations guyze!

Yeah, still, you can make your own observations as statistic. Never mind. Nothing important now, except you want to ask me.

So, that is 2 votes on me that look REALLY bad now, since your reasoning for them just got blown the fuck up.

This is bad, and if you're town, you should feel bad.

I'm undecided on both you and Ibarria yet, you are both leaning towards town, you moreso, but I just think in terms of town/scum, on a scale of 1 - 10, 1 being scum and 10 being town, you are probably a 7, Ib is a 5(null).

No one asked you for that also. And tbh, this is bad.

=

Vote : Celebloki

You guys should sheep me.

[MTD]

@Lincolm: Eh, where does that vote come from! As far as I see, nothing in your post hints at it, still you put an "=" before it as if it was the logical consequence...

[MTD]

Read the exclamation mark as a question mark.

[Flames of Disaster]

Scum will usually try to copy the predecessor's arguments or reasoning while pretending not to looks suspicious, in order to push for a potential mislync

Except I wasn't copying my predecessors arguments or reasoning, like I said, when I started my post she hadn't even posted, I will prove this to you later, but I just want you to look at that.

Indeed. I concede this point.

Defensive May not be a scum tell, but the snarky tone of that post should be an indicator of scum itself .

So, snarky is a scum tell? What really IS the reasoning you are voting me?

First you said it was because I was annoying, then you said ok, that was just a OMGUS vote really guyze, but he is scum because he is snarky?

You're going to have a REALLY hard time on this site if you think snarky is a scumtell.

Or your reason is because I copied the person above me? Which is why I also think that No Stone Unturned is on me.

The reason that I voted you in my first post was because you were annoying, which was synonymous with omgus. The reason why I had not unvoted you was because you were snarky AND defensive. Being snarky defensive is a scumtell for me. Feel free to think otherwise.

Do not put words into my mouth. In no post did I ever mention that I had voted you because "you copied the person above you". I had mentioned my stance about sheeping, but I did not refer to you. I do not like this misrepresentation.

However, you are flailing, and while that in itself is not scummy, you are not SCUMHUNTING, and that IS scummy.

I am not flailing. There is no reason to flail when I am in no danger of a mislynch, as of this point now. I am scumhunting. You are my first scumread, but I shall drop it as you have painstakingly made this post, which although has a possibility of being written by scum, is less likelier. My second scumread is Tla which I will give reasons in later posts, as I do not wish to confuse the intention of this post.

BOOYAH!

I do not believe a scum would post "Booyah!". However, my opinion is still that this was annoying.

[Flames of Disaster]

I voted him because of that wishywashy post I quoted. He says Ibiarria is 'possibly full of bullshit' and then says he's scum, but doesn't vote him? That doesn’t give me the townie feelz.

This is the scummiest post I have ever seen in this current game. Why do you give a damn about who I vote? How is saying that Ibiarria being "full of bullshit" and "possibly scum" correlate to me having a must to put a vote on him? How is not putting my vote on a player that I am unsure of remotely scummy? Tla's explanation(or lack thereof) fails to account for these questions, and is clearly a shallow reasoning to place a vote and push a mislynch.

Ibarria and Pickard are both town

Why are they town? Did you just pick two random players and call them town? What has led you to this conclusion? Are you scum having prior knowledge on the alignment of all players, and thus can state with certainty that they are town?

two tasty wagons
which one
do i hop on

Vote Flames for victory!

Victory for whom? Your scumteam?


At this point I feel that tla is 80% scum and Picard is 30% scum. Anything less than 50% scum is "not scummy", as it is a lesser chance than flipping a coin.

[Flames of Disaster]

in case I didn't,

vote tla[/vote]