NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)


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Post Post #275 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:16 pm

Post by Bulbazak »

In post 254, Tebow wrote:'Actual case' and 'Genuine town motivation' are not two things that a reasonable person acting in good faith would think are the same.
Acting in good faith?
In post 254, Tebow wrote: Clearly, 'actual case' is to be contrasted with 'pressure vote' or 'random vote,' not 'fake case.'
And how does that change the interpretation? That just means she was ready to attack any case, or were you thinking she was planning on attacking a different type of case, and how would that not contrast with "fake case"?
In post 254, Tebow wrote: Your mindset reads like "Can I find a definition of 'actual case' that would make her sound scummy, then imply that's what she meant even though it clearly wasn't?"
No, that phrasing did not feel natural to me, which was why I noticed it. And even if we were to ignore her particular word choice, the way she has gone about with her attack and her explanations since then point to the mindset that I have outlined. This is not some bit of semantic trickery. The intent behind that sentence was the same regardless of whether you buy the definition of "actual" or not. She meant to attack those that presented a case on Garmr. It was not spur of the moment. She admits to wanting to shut down discussion on him. She says it's to protect her townread, but when pressed, she couldn't give an adequate answer why this should be the case, since she admitted to ignoring most of Garmr's posts. Then when she was called out on defending Garmr, she backtracks and said that she was defending herself by defending Garmr, which is BS. So go ahead and criticize my interpretation of that one sentence. It still doesn't change her actions, which happen to back up that interpretation.
In post 254, Tebow wrote: Because, seriously, what scum would actually say 'I want to attack town players?'
Want town says that?
In post 254, Tebow wrote: Can you give me any examples of 'scum theater' you've seen in the past?
I've probably seen it, but none readily spring to mind. It's an association thing, and a lot of times it's more subtle than what was done here.
In post 254, Tebow wrote: 'Pregame is the safest place to pull it off' is just an assertion - seems to me pre-game is the absolute worst time to distance, since it draws attention to/makes people pissed off with both of you, and it doesn't actually work as distancing because you're not really putting your partner at risk.
Not having any risk is why pregame is the safest place to pull off scum theatre. People don't refrain from scumhunting in pregame. In fact, it's a good time to start working on early reads so as to end RVS earlier than usual, perhaps even bypassing it. As such, it is still possible to distance without risk, as town still might award towncred based on certain actions. Seriously, why would the first thought of the 3-way between Emo, Garmr, and Kabooom be that there are scum distancing in the argument? And it's for that reason why distancing can work especially well in pregame: a lot of reward for zero risk. I just thought that there were interactions there that seemed fake, which made me think part of it was planned.
In post 254, Tebow wrote: Calling it 'scum theater' just sounds like a cheap excuse to sling some mud to me.
I'm guessing that you just ignored any information that was in pregame then.
In post 261, emogirl123 wrote:Just to add to the above, I doubt it is to play her own meta to her advantage. She linked some games where she did something similar calling a player a VI, then proceed to suggesting a policy lynch. It is the similar situation here. I don't see why scum Maenara would attempt to play her town meta as scum in such a way where the targeted player would never get lynched and she would receive scrutiny from anyone that knows that a policy lynch means.
Yes, I can't understand why scum would choose to play like they are town. :roll:
In post 266, emogirl123 wrote:The irony is, Maenara can be our default policy lynch. I don't see the reason for multiple people to point out her posts are bad.
:neutral:
In post 271, Sotty7 wrote:We're not lynching scum based on who is the most annoying.
Pray tell what are the criteria for lynching scum?
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.
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Post Post #276 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:24 pm

Post by Acidic_TACO »

In post 244, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 234, Slandaar wrote:Albert

:neutral:
What's up?
The sky!
And the amount of stuff I have to catch up on because of school...man you guys are busy...
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Post Post #277 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:12 pm

Post by Aegor »

VOTE: ABR
Currently partying at the
M A S Q U E R A D E
-- a Large Normal for 21 revelers.
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Post Post #278 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:13 pm

Post by Huntress »


Vote Count 1.5


emogirl123 (7) - Maestro, Nobody Special, Bulbazak, Garmr, Brian Skies, Albert B. Rampage, Maenara
Garmr (2) - OhGodMyLife, emeraldemon
Bulbazak (2) - emogirl123, Tebow
Aegor (1) - Acidic_TACO
Maenara (1) - Sotty7
Brian Skies (1) - Chevre
Nobody Special (1) - WBOCampfire1104
Tebow (1) - The Goodfather
The Goodfather (1) - Slandaar
Albert B. Rampage (1) - Aegor

Not voting (1) - kabooooom


With nineteen players alive, it takes ten votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Tuesday, 4th February 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-02-04 20:00:00)).
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Post Post #279 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:28 pm

Post by Tebow »

In post 275, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 254, Tebow wrote:'Actual case' and 'Genuine town motivation' are not two things that a reasonable person acting in good faith would think are the same.
Acting in good faith?
Yup. IE, trying to actually ascertain her alignment, rather than just deciding to try to paint her as scummy. If I can't see a reason a
reasonable
person acting in good faith (ie, town) would interpret a post in a certain way, that usually leaves three options: you're unreasonable, you're pursuing a personal vendetta, and you're scum. I don't like calling people stupid when there are alternative hypotheses, and I don't have any meta suggesting personal animosity.
In post 254, Tebow wrote: Clearly, 'actual case' is to be contrasted with 'pressure vote' or 'random vote,' not 'fake case.'
And how does that change the interpretation? That just means she was ready to attack any case, or were you thinking she was planning on attacking a different type of case, and how would that not contrast with "fake case"?[/quote]

Because she felt Garmr was a poor player who scum wouldn't be able to resist attacking, therefore the first person who tried to actually build a wagon on him was likely to be scum.
In post 254, Tebow wrote: Your mindset reads like "Can I find a definition of 'actual case' that would make her sound scummy, then imply that's what she meant even though it clearly wasn't?"
No, that phrasing did not feel natural to me, which was why I noticed it. And even if we were to ignore her particular word choice, the way she has gone about with her attack and her explanations since then point to the mindset that I have outlined. This is not some bit of semantic trickery. The intent behind that sentence was the same regardless of whether you buy the definition of "actual" or not.
Other players, please note Bulbazak baselessly asserting that his interpretation of her 'intent' is the same thing as her actual intent. Actually, I think they speak far more to the mindset that
I've
outlined.
She meant to attack those that presented a case on Garmr. It was not spur of the moment.
Never seen town try to lay a 'trap' before?
She admits to wanting to shut down discussion on him. She says it's to protect her townread, but when pressed, she couldn't give an adequate answer why this should be the case, since she admitted to ignoring most of Garmr's posts. Then when she was called out on defending Garmr, she backtracks and said that she was defending herself by defending Garmr, which is BS. So go ahead and criticize my interpretation of that one sentence. It still doesn't change her actions, which happen to back up that interpretation.
This is a hugely uncharitable interpretation of what she said and did.
In post 254, Tebow wrote: Because, seriously, what scum would actually say 'I want to attack town players?'
Want town says that?
This would be valid, if
her having said that
was mutually accepted information. Since the argument is precisely about
whether that is a reasonable interpretation of what she said
, it's just crap. My argument isn't town say that. My argument is that Emogirl didn't say that, and you're deliberately twisting her words.

Gotta run to a lecture.
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Post Post #280 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:15 am

Post by Garmr »

I would love to be in the position I am in if I were scum but I'm not, I am a competent player I don't need defending I'm not a easy lynch and would rather be viewed as a competent player than a incompetent townie that a easy jump for scum. Even if this means I get lynched in the future at least my opinions and cases would actually be valued more than people seeing me as lynch bait townie.
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Post Post #281 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:35 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 244, Albert B. Rampage wrote: What's up?
This is my 'I am not impressed' face; :neutral:
In post 271, Sotty7 wrote: I'm seeing a lot of town kicking up a dust cloud for scum to ooze into and hide behind. Lets stop that.
In post 209, Slandaar wrote:VOTE: Goodfather
:cool:

(That is my 'I have such nice shades you should sheep me face')
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Post Post #282 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:36 am

Post by Sotty7 »

In post 275, Bulbazak wrote:Pray tell what are the criteria for lynching scum?
Having them be scum is the first step.
In post 277, Aegor wrote:VOTE: ABR
Wrong. Try again?

Nah I got my vote on scum Maenara, you should sheep me. That or point out where I am wrong, I'm open to that too.
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Post Post #283 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:52 am

Post by emogirl123 »

In post 259, emogirl123 wrote:if her wagon ever builds, I suspect it will be a misdirection.
Hey Sotty, I have no problem with lynching Maenara when the time comes, but cut the shit please. You are misdirecting attention away from Garmr and Bulbazak over a null read, and this isn't making me happy.
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Post Post #284 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:00 am

Post by Garmr »

In post 283, emogirl123 wrote:
In post 259, emogirl123 wrote:if her wagon ever builds, I suspect it will be a misdirection.
Hey Sotty, I have no problem with lynching Maenara when the time comes, but cut the shit please. You are misdirecting attention away from Garmr and Bulbazak over a null read, and this isn't making me happy.

I would probably like this post more if you mention yourself in that as well as at the moment most of the commotion is between the three of us. The fact yourself out is a bit disturbing.
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Post Post #285 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:03 am

Post by emogirl123 »

The wagon on me is garbage. I doubt scum would be crazy enough to attempt to have me lynched after many of the people on my wagon are now topic of discussion.
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Post Post #286 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:07 am

Post by Garmr »

So where do you think scum would place there vote then.

Also what do you think of Scotty.
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Post Post #287 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:09 am

Post by emogirl123 »

I suspect if Bulbazak and Garmr are both town, scum would place a vote on one of you.

If Bulbazak and Garmr have scum within, scum would make a counter push towards a easy target with a strong case.
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Post Post #288 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:17 am

Post by emogirl123 »

Maenara is a disguised policy lynch at best. Stating otherwise and trying to generate discussion on that point is nonsense and should be stopped.
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Post Post #289 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:18 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 245, OhGodMyLife wrote:Whoever brought up multiball
Hi
In post 245, OhGodMyLife wrote: none of these things even remotely resemble scumhunting
Well, you're wrong.
In post 245, OhGodMyLife wrote: It's all white noise that looks on the surface like helpful activity but is actually just a fine place for scum to hide.
Let us take this hypothesis as true, it would mean starting a conversation about multiball would draw out and ultimately help catch scum.

:]

Was I doing that? meh I know to watch peoples activity regarding multiball and activity regarding scumhunting need to be about equal (or increase in scumhunting), if activity drops from someone when multiball talk ends they are scum. There is nothing inherently wrong with talking about multiball in RVS after-all as long as the person transitions; it is better than making a random vote because someone posted above you.

We could also go another level, if we know that most people think that it's scummy and there are a lot of people who incorrectly do (town like to talk), then we can assume scum will see this as a reason to use to accuse town of acting scummy and this leads to scum who know people will be accused of scum for talking about multiball are less likely to do it than town.

:cool:
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Post Post #290 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:21 am

Post by Garmr »

In post 287, emogirl123 wrote:I suspect if Bulbazak and Garmr are both town, scum would place a vote on one of you.

If Bulbazak and Garmr have scum within, scum would make a counter push towards a easy target with a strong case.
what happens if one of us is town and the other is scum?

Also I played with manera before she rode a miller claim to end game didn't do much and got mislynched. So I will agree with you on the manera front.

Also you didn't answer what you think of scotty.
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Post Post #291 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:26 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 290, Garmr wrote:scotty.
Her name is Sooty get it right Garmr! Don't think star trek think Childrens TV!
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Post Post #292 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:28 am

Post by Garmr »

In post 291, Slandaar wrote:
In post 290, Garmr wrote:scotty.
Her name is Sooty get it right Garmr! Don't think star trek think Childrens TV!
From now on I will think of sooty always wearing a red shirt.

So Slandy what do you think of me this game?
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Post Post #293 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:29 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

I'm perfectly happy with a lynch on emogirl for the nonce. She seems way too overconfident.
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Post Post #294 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:33 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 288, emogirl123 wrote:Maenara is a disguised policy lynch at best. Stating otherwise and trying to generate discussion on that point is nonsense and should be stopped.
Why would anyone policy lynch Maenara...
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Post Post #295 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:35 am

Post by emogirl123 »

I know I seem overconfident. I suspect that it's the overconfident tone that generates wagons at will. What is your point?

Maybe my idea of policy lynch differs from others, but lynching someone over a null read because the player is bad is considered a policy lynch in my eyes.
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Post Post #296 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:38 am

Post by Huntress »

WBOCampfire1104 has been prodded.
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Post Post #297 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:43 am

Post by Garmr »

So what do you think of sooty emo?
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Post Post #298 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:46 am

Post by emogirl123 »

She's right about her read on you being town. I'll note that her point about Maenara taking the ultimate easy stance voting emogirl can be applied to herself. Pushing a lynch on Maenara at this stage seems to me like it is also the ultimate easy stance. Saying so misreps the two major wagons that will form in the next few pagse on Garmr and Bulbazak (prediction), and since she town read you already, it just seems like she doesn't want to comment on Bulbazak. Complete null read.
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Post Post #299 (ISO) » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:53 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 295, emogirl123 wrote:Maybe my idea of policy lynch differs from others, but lynching someone over a null read because the player is bad is considered a policy lynch in my eyes.
Maenara isn't bad. At all. And it isn't a policy lynch. I don't see what you're implying.
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