Mafia 59: Hell on Earth - Game over!

[Jalyn]

Nightfall, the possibilities are:
Night one: one of the groups targetted a person livingod protected/the groups both targetted Twito/the borg hit an alien

Night two: one of the groups targetted a person livingod protected/the groups both targetted Smashy/the borg hit an alien

Night three: the groups both targetted Fircoal/the Borg hit an Alien

Night four: the Aliens hit a Borg

[M4yhem]

Yos- I went back and checked your record. You voted for three out of four of the townies that have been lynched. You got off Panzer before he was lynched but you still gave his bandwagon a really good push. As for Bogre, you may have defended him but you also fosed him and your support for him was ambigious for sure.

To condemn me for bandwagonning is hypocrisy on your part. You've bandwagonned just as much as I have; the only difference is, I've been more open about it.

[Yosarian2]

Yos- I went back and checked your record. You voted for three out of four of the townies that have been lynched. You got off Panzer before he was lynched but you still gave his bandwagon a really good push. As for Bogre, you may have defended him but you also fosed him and your support for him was ambigious for sure.

I not only got off Panzer before he was lynched, I activaly opposed his bandwagon towards the end of the day. And every time I voted for someone, I had logical reasons for it, unlike your scummy Bogre hammer and your scummy bandwagon votes.

Anyway, last page you were attacking me for defending bogre, saying that I was "defending a good guy in order to try to make myself look like a good guy" which makes no sense as scum don't KNOW who the good guys are. Now you're attacking me for being "ambigious" about it? I wasn't SURE Bogre was a good guy, but I thought the bandwagon was looking quite scummy and said so, and YOU used that as an excuse to hammer him.

By the way, considering how fast all those townie bandwagons moved, how much bandwagoning we've had all game from the scum, the fact that so many people are basically ignoring the m4yhem wagon dispite the obveously scummy things he's done are making me quite happy about this wagon.

Heh...you've also said in the past that you tend to be much more sure of yourself and agressive and focused as scum, and much more wishy washy and questioning when town. Looking at that bogre hammer you made, and your play in general so far this game, I'm thinking your play looks more like your scum play then your town play.

[Jalyn]

I am thinking M4yhem may be the play today, but I'm not putting my vote anywhere near him for several days. I learned my lesson from the livingod wagon, that I was part of, that went by way too fast.

Actually, there's been a little discussion of my analysis of the no kills, but no one's commented on my reasoning for voting Nightfall (other than Nightfall, who noted I was picking him out of a crowd, but didn't comment on the general reasoning) is there anyone who thinks that the idea that Fircoal had hinted at a guilty result on Bogre but wasn't willing to vote for him makes any sense? I suppose I should clarify that with "that didn't use that reasoning to vote for Bogre yesterday."

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I kind of thought it made sense. I donno, sometimes cops try to breadcrumb without bringing much attention to themselves, and it was interesting that it was Fircoal's first post of the day. (shrug) It wasn't a strong theory, but not a totally inplausable one.

[Nightfall]

Jalyn, your right about the nks... I didnt think about both groups possibly targeting the same people.

[~N9V~]

So, to condense what I said in a long drawn out way above. I'm wondering if M4yhem was the attempted kill by the Aliens last night and confirmed Borg to 3 people, Battle Mage was the attempted kill by the Borg two nights ago and confirmed Alien to them and we now have two rival scum teams trying to lynch the guy that they know to be scum.

Hmm. Interesting speculation. Not sure the scum groups would be that obveous, though.

And just to let you know, EVEN if I was scum, I wouldn't be trying to kill townies right now. THey need at least one protown player alive to win. Think before you post.

Not true. If there are no pro-town players left, the scum group with the more scum left wins. So if you're in the scum group that's ahead you might be trying to wipe out all the townies now.

Read the win conditions under the second post.

[Battle Mage]

its hardly surprising, seeing as i have no idea of whether the other 2 are correct or not. The 1 thing i did have confirmation on, i commented on. Simple.
Anyway, i disagree about the scumgroups. Realistically, if the scumgroups work together for the first day or 2, they should have a much greater chance of beating the town. The town begins in the numerical ascendancy, and so a logical scum group would target the biggest threat first. This is the same reason why (when scum) i rarely choose to kill a confirmed vig, because it is more than likely that the vig will actually speed up the process of killing the town. Its the same with all killing roles.

Interesting that you focused so specifically on that option, BM, seeing as I gave three options: Jack could have been the missed kill, M4yhem could be an alien or you could be an alien.

Anyway, if the scum groups were logical, they should have been going after the other scum group the entire game. The other scum group is their biggest threat, regardless of the size of the town. There would be some searching for the town power roles as well, but killing vanilla townies should have been a disappointment.

[Kelly Chen]

I have to stop saying I'm going to do things on Friday afternoons.

Vote count

2 - M4yhem (Yosarian2, theopor_COD)
1 - Nightfall (Jalyn)
1 - Yosarian2 (M4yhem)

not voting: Nightfall, Battle Mage, spectrumvoid, Akbar, ~N9V~

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to toss someone into the steel!

posted today: Jalyn, Yosarian2, Nightfall, theopor_COD, Battle Mage, spectrumvoid, M4yhem, Akbar, ~N9V~

Rule commentary: A scum faction only requires one or more living townies, in order to win by making up merely half of living players instead of a majority. This is because if all townies are dead and a scum faction only makes up half of living players, that means the other scum group also makes up half of living players, which is the condition for everybody losing the game.

Prodding: milkman, TheJiveMachine

[Nightfall]

Rule Q: So are you saying that if all town members are dead, the scum cant win?

[Kelly Chen]

They can win if at that time (the time that the last townie/s is/are now dead) they comprise a majority. But not if they only comprise half.

[Yosarian2]

So, to condense what I said in a long drawn out way above. I'm wondering if M4yhem was the attempted kill by the Aliens last night and confirmed Borg to 3 people, Battle Mage was the attempted kill by the Borg two nights ago and confirmed Alien to them and we now have two rival scum teams trying to lynch the guy that they know to be scum.

Hmm. Interesting speculation. Not sure the scum groups would be that obveous, though.

And just to let you know, EVEN if I was scum, I wouldn't be trying to kill townies right now. THey need at least one protown player alive to win. Think before you post.

Not true. If there are no pro-town players left, the scum group with the more scum left wins. So if you're in the scum group that's ahead you might be trying to wipe out all the townies now.

Read the win conditions under the second post.

Read it more carefully. The "everyone loses" clause only applies if both scum groups have the same number of people.

[Battle Mage]

The Case on Milkman:

First off, it must be pointed out that

Every single person he has voted for in this game is proven protown

.
It is reasonable to be wrong once or twice, but to incriminate 5 or 6 people-none of whom are scum, is pretty bad. He has also joined a number of late wagons on these people.
His lurkiness is also a point against him, though he may just be plain inactive.
However, the main reason i suspect him, is his reluctance to join the Panzer wagon. While saying he thought Panzer was scum, and strongly campaigning for his lynch, he chose not to place a vote on him, with the obvious intention of keeping out of the limelight.
Nonetheless, he made several comments that were pro-Panzer lynch.

In fact, i think Milkman is even scummier than N9V atm, so i will go ahead and

Vote: Milkman

i suggest anyone who doesnt think Milkman is scummy read his posts on their own.
BM

[~N9V~]

BM, you have the worst case against me I have ever seen. Well, you think I'm scum when I'm clearly town, that means you must be scum. That's what your case looks like.

[Yosarian2]

BM, you have the worst case against me I have ever seen. Well, you think I'm scum when I'm clearly town, that means you must be scum. That's what your case looks like.

Wow. That is so incredibly scummy.

How are you "clearly town"? You've not posted many times all games, and most of the posts you have made have been iffy at best, such as your waffling on Panzer; first you defended him based on playstyle, then you voted him, then you unvoted him, then you voted him again, and then you went after Bogre for lynching him when you were also on that bandwagon yourself.

Just declaring that you're "clearly town" and that anyone who votes you "must be scum" just makes you look that much more scummy.

fos:n9v

. If m4yhem wasn't so obveously scum, that would be a vote.

[milkman]

[quote="Battle Mage"The Case on Milkman:

First off, it must be pointed out that

Every single person he has voted for in this game is proven protown

.

It is reasonable to be wrong once or twice, but to incriminate 5 or 6 people-none of whom are scum, is pretty bad. He has also joined a number of late wagons on these people.[/quote]


I voted for you, and there is no proof that you're protown. I joined one wagon late, the al4xz wagon, because I thought he was scum.

D1: al4xz was extremely scummy.
D2: I voted livingod. His actions were also really scummy.
D3: Again livingod.
D4: I voted bm.

His lurkiness is also a point against him, though he may just be plain inactive.

I do lurk alot, and I haven't contributed as much as I should. I do try to keep up with the thread, and give my opinion though.

However, the main reason i suspect him, is his reluctance to join the Panzer wagon.

While saying he thought Panzer was scum, and strongly campaigning for his lynch, he chose not to place a vote on him, with the obvious intention of keeping out of the limelight.
Nonetheless, he made several comments that were pro-Panze

r lynch.

I made two posts about the panzer lynch, one asking for a claim, and the second saying that I thought he was town. At this point I think you're grasping at straws,

vote:BM

.

[Akbar]

1st off, to the remaining 3 townies, I apologize for not posting more. Between deadlines at work, and feelings of hopelessness based on our crappy start, I haven’t found time to post much more. I’m not even sure if we have a chance to win at this point.

Anyhow, I spent some time analyzing possible roles of the remaining players. Most scum are pretty guarding on not showing who their teammates are in game. But, they tend not to hide who their enemies are. So, instead of guessing who was on who’s team, I spent most my time noting who was NOT on who’s team. Then reverse engineer based on the open set up. Since my track record sucks right now, (I voted Alex day 1, Panzer day 2, and LG day 3), I don’t expect anyone to have too much faith in this, but that won’t stop me from trying.

Alien Group:

M4yhem
Nightfall
TheJiveMachine


Borg Group:

Battle Mage
Spectrum Void
Theopor_COD
Yosarian2



Remaining Town:

Akbar
Jalyn
Milkman
N9V


I cannot possibly post all the data that brought me to this conclusion as it encompasses most of the thread. I understand that I have made a leap here, but we are in a desperate situation and our future looks grim. I realize it’s likely I made at least 1 mistake, which would become 2 simply because their counter spot would have to be filled with a different player. With any luck, I’m not far off the mark. I ask that the 3 remaining townies, even if it’s not Jalyn, Milkman and N9V, check their own lists and see if ours are fairly similar.

Right now, I think the remaining Alien Mafia should take heed of the situation. If you standby or help Borg kill us all without taking the lead, you will lose with us. (The enemy of my enemy kind of thing….) I believe BM was telling the truth when he said he was not Alien. That’s because he’s Borg. I’m confident he’s today’s lynch.

Vote Battle Mage

[Battle Mage]

whilst there may not be proof as such that i am protown, if you look from my perspective, I KNOW that i am protown, thus i also know how your voting pattern has gone. Your vote is totally OMGUS btw.
as for the panzer lynch, you also made 2 posts featuring the words: "Panzer wagon sounds cool". Perhaps a message to your scumbuddies that they should hammer?
BM

[quote="Battle Mage"The Case on Milkman:

First off, it must be pointed out that

Every single person he has voted for in this game is proven protown

.

It is reasonable to be wrong once or twice, but to incriminate 5 or 6 people-none of whom are scum, is pretty bad. He has also joined a number of late wagons on these people.

I voted for you, and there is no proof that you're protown. I joined one wagon late, the al4xz wagon, because I thought he was scum.

D1: al4xz was extremely scummy.
D2: I voted livingod. His actions were also really scummy.
D3: Again livingod.
D4: I voted bm.

His lurkiness is also a point against him, though he may just be plain inactive.

I do lurk alot, and I haven't contributed as much as I should. I do try to keep up with the thread, and give my opinion though.

However, the main reason i suspect him, is his reluctance to join the Panzer wagon.

While saying he thought Panzer was scum, and strongly campaigning for his lynch, he chose not to place a vote on him, with the obvious intention of keeping out of the limelight.
Nonetheless, he made several comments that were pro-Panze

r lynch.

I made two posts about the panzer lynch, one asking for a claim, and the second saying that I thought he was town. At this point I think you're grasping at straws,

vote:BM

.[/quote]

[Battle Mage]

apology rejected. now you are back, your only contribution is to lynch one of us. hardly what id call useful protown play.
anyway, i regret to see that you 'spent some time' on that analysis, as it is quite frankly BS.
you have the 2 obvious scumbags in the protown group, and the likely protown players in the scum group.
a leap of faith is exactly what you have made, and you have fallen flat on your face i am sorry to say. Your failure to produce ANY evidence for your guesses makes them nearly worthless. your attempt to suck up the townies, in order to gain the much needed majority over your scum-group counterpart is noted, as is your repetition of comments i have already made.
if you are town, im truly sorry that you wasted your time in such spectacular fashion. If, after all your so-called research, a 'lets kill off BM' was the best you could come up with, you have my deepest sympathy. I am neither Alien nor Borg, however i suspect YOU are the latter.
I wont play a gambit speculating EVERYONES roles, but i will make clear that the following are almost certainly true.

BORG:
Akbar

ALIEN:
Milkman
N9V

I think Akbar genuinely believes that by targetting Milkman and N9V, he can convince 2 innocents to lynch someone of the opposing group. I also believe his plea to the Alien group to side with him. He is clearly well aware that i am a townie, but is hoping to get the other Mafia group on side to lynch me. To this end, Akbar is probably Borg, as he last post suggested.
Hell, if Milkman wasnt such certain scum, id vote Akbar instead. In fact, assuming my analysis is correct, i might be better off helping to lynch a Borg, seeing as it will even up the groups again.

BM

1st off, to the remaining 3 townies, I apologize for not posting more. Between deadlines at work, and feelings of hopelessness based on our crappy start, I haven’t found time to post much more. I’m not even sure if we have a chance to win at this point.

Anyhow, I spent some time analyzing possible roles of the remaining players. Most scum are pretty guarding on not showing who their teammates are in game. But, they tend not to hide who their enemies are. So, instead of guessing who was on who’s team, I spent most my time noting who was NOT on who’s team. Then reverse engineer based on the open set up. Since my track record sucks right now, (I voted Alex day 1, Panzer day 2, and LG day 3), I don’t expect anyone to have too much faith in this, but that won’t stop me from trying.

Alien Group:

M4yhem
Nightfall
TheJiveMachine


Borg Group:

Battle Mage
Spectrum Void
Theopor_COD
Yosarian2



Remaining Town:

Akbar
Jalyn
Milkman
N9V


I cannot possibly post all the data that brought me to this conclusion as it encompasses most of the thread. I understand that I have made a leap here, but we are in a desperate situation and our future looks grim. I realize it’s likely I made at least 1 mistake, which would become 2 simply because their counter spot would have to be filled with a different player. With any luck, I’m not far off the mark. I ask that the 3 remaining townies, even if it’s not Jalyn, Milkman and N9V, check their own lists and see if ours are fairly similar.

Right now, I think the remaining Alien Mafia should take heed of the situation. If you standby or help Borg kill us all without taking the lead, you will lose with us. (The enemy of my enemy kind of thing….) I believe BM was telling the truth when he said he was not Alien. That’s because he’s Borg. I’m confident he’s today’s lynch.

Vote Battle Mage

[Akbar]

Well BM, even if you were town. You’d be the last person to throw insults. Let’s look at your track record.

You told everyone how you found townie tells on Alex and how he might be a power role, and then you tried to hammer him.
You helped get Panzer lynched.
Then you hammered our cop.
And finally you lynched Bogre after telling us it was a trap set by mafia.

So if you are town, you might want to take a step down from that pedestal. I however think the likely answer is your scum.

What’s interesting is through the whole game, Yos takes pretty good notes of suspicious things, but he never seems to find fault in your actions. I wonder why.

[Battle Mage]

Akbar, try and stick to the facts. I never said Alex gave townie tells-i actually claimed he gave off power-role tells-There is a big difference. Obviously when he claimed vanilla townie, i realised the one reason i had been defending him was no longer valid, and saw no reason not to go along with the towns wishes.
Besides, i dont think i need to remind YOU that you were also on nearly all of those wagons. It doesnt take a genius to work out that someone who hammers is no more to blame than the guy who put the first vote on. If making bad choices is a scumtell, you are far more scummy than me.
as for Yos, i think you have answered your own question. It wouldnt surprise me one bit if he was one of the remaining protown players.
so-as for my track record, i dont think you have any right to criticise, considering your 'contribution' to the town. Nonetheless, this isnt a competition about who is best. Its about finding out who is scum, and THAT my friend, is why you should be lynched today.

Well BM, even if you were town. You’d be the last person to throw insults. Let’s look at your track record.

You told everyone how you found townie tells on Alex and how he might be a power role, and then you tried to hammer him.
You helped get Panzer lynched.
Then you hammered our cop.
And finally you lynched Bogre after telling us it was a trap set by mafia.

So if you are town, you might want to take a step down from that pedestal. I however think the likely answer is your scum.

What’s interesting is through the whole game, Yos takes pretty good notes of suspicious things, but he never seems to find fault in your actions. I wonder why.

[~N9V~]

BM, you have the worst case against me I have ever seen. Well, you think I'm scum when I'm clearly town, that means you must be scum. That's what your case looks like.

Wow. That is so incredibly scummy.

How are you "clearly town"? You've not posted many times all games, and most of the posts you have made have been iffy at best, such as your waffling on Panzer; first you defended him based on playstyle, then you voted him, then you unvoted him, then you voted him again, and then you went after Bogre for lynching him when you were also on that bandwagon yourself.

Just declaring that you're "clearly town" and that anyone who votes you "must be scum" just makes you look that much more scummy.

fos:n9v

. If m4yhem wasn't so obveously scum, that would be a vote.

And how is BM clearly town? Also, so, there were plenty of other people who were on the Panzer, and on Bogre, so I guess they're all scum to?

I think that there is still one or two scum in this group: Yos, BM, and M4yhem.

[Yosarian2]

And how is BM clearly town?

I never said he was. There are so many scum in this game, I don't think ANYONE could be said to be "clearly town" right now. Which is why I find it so scummy that you're just declaring yourself to be "clearly town" and just assuming that anyone who doubts you must be scum. That's just horribly illogical.

Also, so, there were plenty of other people who were on the Panzer, and on Bogre, so I guess they're all scum to?

No, not all of them, but most of them probably are. Remember, there's more scum then town left at this point.

Akbar: Heh, that's quite a list, just declaring that you know not only who all the scum and all the town are, but also that you know which groups each of them is in. I don't think anyone's going to take you seriously unless you can actually explain WHY you think that, though, using specific examples.

What’s interesting is through the whole game, Yos takes pretty good notes of suspicious things, but he never seems to find fault in your actions. I wonder why.

(shrug) BM dosn't really look that scummy to me right now, compared to how he looks in other games I'm in with him right now. He could be scum, he's certanly used some iffy logic and such, but he always seems to do that, and at the moment my gut feeling is that he's not looking all that scummy.

[M4yhem]

And every time I voted for someone, I had logical reasons for it, unlike your scummy Bogre hammer and your scummy bandwagon votes.

My logic was just as good as your logic. You’re twisting things here, gambling on people to take your word for it rather that go back and check. If my logic was so freaking scummy, how come you didn’t call me out at the time? Simple. You didn’t care if panzer and bogre died, because they weren’t your buddies. But now I make a convenient target, and so you use whatever you can.

By the way, considering how fast all those townie bandwagons moved, how much bandwagoning we've had all game from the scum, the fact that so many people are basically ignoring the m4yhem wagon dispite the obveously scummy things he's done are making me quite happy about this wagon.

That’s ridiculous and you know it. We can’t know what the scum are thinking. There are other possibilities. For example, maybe they think I might be town and would prefer to kill off scum. Or maybe your buddies don’t want to associate themselves with a wagon you started.

Oh and saying I’m obviously scum doesn’t mean anything. Anyone can do that.
You’re obviously scum, Yosarian2 and so’s your mother. See?


Akbar- If you think Yos is scum, how come you’re not voting for him? He’s far more dangerous as a player than BM.

BM- What do you think of Yosarian?

[Yosarian2]

My logic was just as good as your logic. You’re twisting things here, gambling on people to take your word for it rather that go back and check. If my logic was so freaking scummy, how come you didn’t call me out at the time? Simple. You didn’t care if panzer and bogre died, because they weren’t your buddies. But now I make a convenient target, and so you use whatever you can.

I didn't "Call you" on your bogre vote becuase it was to late, that was the hammer.

And saying that "your logic is as good as my logic" is just completly untrue. None of my votes were anywhere NEAR as illogical as your "I'm going to hammer Bogre because Yosarian is defending him" post. And the logic behind your panzer vote was this:

Panzer, I've had enough of your insanity.

unvote, Vote:Panzer

Claim or die.

and then the next day, this.

Panzer- There is no Mayham in this game. There is a me, but you can't possibly have been talking about me because no-one sane would mangle my name that badly.

Anyway, I don't believe you were framed. Wifom, wifom, wifom.

Vote:Panzer because he was the next most suspicious after Al4xz anyway, because he jumped rather quickly to the conclusion he was framed and because oh my god, he sucks.

So I hardly think you can say you had "good logic" behind your panzer votes or behind your Bogre vote.

Whereas I have given good, logical reason for all of the votes I've made this game, except for my early random vote on alex, and when I decided to stay on that wagon I did give good reasons for that.

So please, everyone, take M4yhem up on that. "Go back and check". Go back and re-read his bogre vote, his cop fishing, and his panzer votes, and tell me if you don't think he's scum.

That’s ridiculous and you know it. We can’t know what the scum are thinking. There are other possibilities. For example, maybe they think I might be town and would prefer to kill off scum. Or maybe your buddies don’t want to associate themselves with a wagon you started.

(shrug) That wasn't the main point of my case against you; it's just an interesting observation, considering how fast all the other bandwagons this game have gone, usually with much weaker logic then the case against you.

Oh and saying I’m obviously scum doesn’t mean anything. Anyone can do that.

It wasn't supposed to be an argument against you. It was just an explination for why I wasn't voting n9v; he's scummy, but you're so obveously scum I can't see myself moving my vote off of you for anything short of a confession.