Newbie 1488: Igloo-Town Tragedy (Game Over)

[jklash12]

Please check my spoiler for in depth analysis of why random is scum.

Spoiler:

I don't think it is a good idea to have anyone at L-1 this early. Someone could quickhammer.

Private was at L-1 here on day 1 and Random goes out to advise against the wagon against Private.

I'm getting a null read on Private. He has asked some good questions, but is laying fairly low. I just don't think he has done anything scummy, the read is more based on him not doing townie things.

Gives a weird null on Private here. He says Private isn't scummy and he asks good questions. From that it sounds like he should be town but instead its a null. If someone is asking good questions, that would fall under the category of townie things.

Hang on a minute. We are lynching Private because he isn't very active. This is a terrible excuse. He could be innocent, or a town power role.

This is a major one. He says we shouldn't lynch Private because he could be a town power role. Think about that for a second. Whenever you lynch anyone you run the risk of lynching a town power role because anyone could be a town power role. This is a terrible defense against a Private lynch but in his next post it gets even worse.

The reasoning for his lynch would also apply to a power role staying low. He hasn't done anything scummy.

In his next post he takes the defense that Private could be a power role and uses it to defend why Private has been laying low/lurking and yet again say he hasn't done anything scummy.

Vote IV

best vote we've got. Nothing contributed, and pretty survivalistic.
Dunno, why I said that stuff about Private, I was tired. Sorry about that.

Here he votes innocentvillager. As far as contributing you can't say Private contributed more than IV on day1. Then he takes back all the bad defensive stuff about Private because he was "tired".

Private has contributed slightly more by asking questions. Also, IV was oddly survivalistic.

Still defending Private when he didn't need to.

(the rest of the quotes are day2. The ones before were all day 1)

Vote private

Same reasons as stated by dtd
Getting a strong town read on dtd, and a weak town on Jake.

Here is where on day2 Random goes to vote Private. Oddly he list no reasons of his own and just sheeps his ass on to dtd's reasons.

GUYS PRIVATE IS AT LYNCH 1. DO NOT HAMMER YET.

jklash, we still have a couple more days of discussion so don't hammer yet.

These 2 quotes are trying to delay the Private lynch so that his scum partner has time to post and hopefully dig his way out.

I'm not sure, but I know DDD asked you questions that you didn't answer. I am satisfied to hammer Private now.

This is just 3 posts after his previous post. He has an uncalled change in mind to be satisfied with the Private lynch.

He clearly isn't going to post. I have realized this and so have no problem with hammering. I have a decent idea of who is scum, but need to see the flip to see if I am correct. I think I am organized enough to proceed.

Then Jake questioned Random why he is asking for time for Private and this was his response where he says to hammer.

The main points of why Random is scum
-His defense of Private day1 with rather weak reasons and then takes it all back when questioned on it
-sheeps the Private wagon day2. Never says, himself, why Private is scummy.
-His trying to buy Private time to talk at the end of day2
-His weird change of mind between 352 and 355

[jklash12]

Also,

OK, here are my reads
billi

Spoiler:

Town - scumhunting, lots of acivity
Scum - nothing
Note - he could have an idea of the layout through being a town PR
Verdict - Strong town

jklash

Spoiler:

Town - scumhunting, posts make good points
Scum - not that active
Verdict - medium-strong town

ddd

Spoiler:

Town - day 2 scumhunting and making good posts
Scum - Day 1 low post quality and not scumhunting, not answering questions
Verdict - Null. could be either

zephyr

Spoiler:

Town - has been posting information
Scum - inactive
Note - a lot of his odd moves can be explained by the fact that he is new to mafia
Verdict - Null

dawn - going to look at his ISO then provide a read
jake

Spoiler:

Town - little bit of scumhunting
Scum - tries to lynch a player without providing a case, when they had plenty of posts to take evidence from
Note - haven't done anything I particularly like
Verdict - Weak scum

Private

Spoiler:

Town - asks questions
Scum - no effort to find scum, very few posts
Verdict - Weak scum

Please comment on these reads.

random, did you do this based on my notes? c",
Basically the same results as I would give.

Great minds think alike.
I'm getting a weak-town read on dtd. Was lurking day 1, but has been playing well day 2.

He gives a reason or two here of why Private is scum but I find it unusual that his reads match exactly with the player that random has called "the most town player".

[dawn_to_dusk]

your right... i may change my vote soon-ish once i get more on jake/random

UNVOTE: JakeUNVOTE:

[dawn_to_dusk]

sorry, that is UNVOTE: Jake

[Randomnamechange]

At this point billi was coming under fire for the role thing.
In a lot of those points about Day 1 I was not defending Private, I was pushing against IV.
I wouldn't have NK'ed Zephyr. To be honest I would have been looking at DDD as a late town leader who would have been unlikely to be protected.
If you look at my last game (I think it was 1773) then you will see my vote does jump around quite a lot.
Also, Private made a case against me whilst being wagonned. I haven't played that many games, but I think it would be odd for scum to try to pull their scum partner down. (please can someone more experienced tell me more about this?)

[dawn_to_dusk]

Or maybe that's what private wanted us to think...

[Randomnamechange]

or maybe Private wanted us to think that that was what Private wanted us to think?
Or maybe Private wanted us to think that Private wanted us to think that Private wanted us to think I was scum?
WIFOM

[Billi bilaði]

jklash12 makes a very strong case that I could easily buy into. No need to rush the voting yet, though.

[Jake from State Farm]

At this point billi was coming under fire for the role thing.
In a lot of those points about Day 1 I was not defending Private, I was pushing against IV.
I wouldn't have NK'ed Zephyr. To be honest I would have been looking at DDD as a late town leader who would have been unlikely to be protected.
If you look at my last game (I think it was 1773) then you will see my vote does jump around quite a lot.
Also, Private made a case against me whilst being wagonned. I haven't played that many games, but I think it would be odd for scum to try to pull their scum partner down. (please can someone more experienced tell me more about this?)

I have seen scum do this so it's entirely possible. It's that whole wifom thing. Would scum toss their partners name out there hoping people will think he's town with a scum flip. The stalling and the bs shit you said about me makes me think it could be you but I really feel like billi slipped. I want to see his and private's interactions before deciding.

[Randomnamechange]

...Private is dead Jake

[Jake from State Farm]

yeah I know he is

[Randomnamechange]

Here is where on day2 Random goes to vote Private. Oddly he list no reasons of his own and just sheeps his ass on to dtd's reasons.

This was in my reads, given before dtd's vote. dtd had referred to my reads in his evidence to lynch Private. His reasoning was my reasoning. If you had been paying attention then you would know that DDD had explained this.

[Randomnamechange]

Town - asks questions
Scum - no effort to find scum, very few posts
Verdict - Weak scum
sorry forgot to put this in the post

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I mean I thought I had a solid reason for my town read on random but jklash's post in 400 is actually outstanding, lots of compelling stuff there.

[Jake from State Farm]

I mean I thought I had a solid reason for my town read on random but jklash's post in 400 is actually outstanding, lots of compelling stuff there.

Just got done reading that. I agree it's pretty good and I don't really see random responding to it

[Billi bilaði]

At this point billi was coming under fire for the role thing.
In a lot of those points about Day 1 I was not defending Private, I was pushing against IV.
I wouldn't have NK'ed Zephyr. To be honest I would have been looking at DDD as a late town leader who would have been unlikely to be protected.
If you look at my last game (I think it was 1773) then you will see my vote does jump around quite a lot.
Also, Private made a case against me whilst being wagonned. I haven't played that many games, but I think it would be odd for scum to try to pull their scum partner down. (please can someone more experienced tell me more about this?)

I have seen scum do this so it's entirely possible. It's that whole wifom thing. Would scum toss their partners name out there hoping people will think he's town with a scum flip. The stalling and the bs shit you said about me makes me think it could be you but I really feel like billi slipped. I want to see his and private's interactions before deciding.

I regularly take down my fellow mafiosos if I feel it helps with winning. Last game I played (in iceland) I and my fellow goon took down our godfather. It was a big help with winning the game.
I will be surprised if the same isn't done on this site.

Jake, can you take a selfie of when you see me flip town, and post it here?

[Jake from State Farm]

sure thing

[Jake from State Farm]

the only thing that hangs me up about you billi is you seem to be trolling at times and I don't see that coming from newb scum

Then again you aren't really a newb are you?

[Jake from State Farm]

jake was the only person (other than zephyr who we know is townie) to not vote private. he instead stuck on the same person who everyone has accepted to be civvy, billi. after random posted that someone should hammer, jake did not hammer. maybe trying to prevent it? i dont know. but for now, my vote goes to:

so I am suspicious because i didn't sheep "everyone", I didn't hammer private when random told me to, and I somehow tried to prevent a hammer (which isn't true at all)

lol you can't be this bad

[jklash12]

Here is where on day2 Random goes to vote Private. Oddly he list no reasons of his own and just sheeps his ass on to dtd's reasons.

This was in my reads, given before dtd's vote. dtd had referred to my reads in his evidence to lynch Private. His reasoning was my reasoning. If you had been paying attention then you would know that DDD had explained this.

After my big post, I went back and found your reads and addressed your reads in the post right after my main case on you.

[Randomnamechange]

My point was that one of your points was invalid - the one about dtd. DDD had already looked at this point.

[Randomnamechange]

Also, jklash, do you have any points that point to me being scum apart from my interaction with Private?

[Randomnamechange]

OK, gonna go through these points one by one.

-His defense of Private day1 with rather weak reasons and then takes it all back when questioned on it
I am a newbie, I'm still learning the ropes and it was explained my reasoning is invalid.
-sheeps the Private wagon day2. Never says, himself, why Private is scummy.
I did.
-His trying to buy Private time to talk at the end of day2
How is this scummy? He hadn't had a chance to defend himself. I wasn't the only one to have this view
-His weird change of mind between 352 and 355
Hang on just checking these posts.

[Randomnamechange]

That's why I just posted intent. So that we could have more time to hear from private before I hammered.

This is what you did. 8 posts later, you hammer. Very similar to my 'odd change'.

[Billi bilaði]

the only thing that hangs me up about you billi is you seem to be trolling at times and I don't see that coming from newb scum

Then again you aren't really a newb are you?

Not a newb as such, I believe.
Playing the mandatory newb games here before I look at the other forums.