In post 149, Madonna wrote:@Tr1ckster: There is a misunderstanding. So when I put down a vote for you, I just gave one of the many reasons I voted for you. You strangely asked the wrong question in return. It is not a question of you being on someone's side, but whether I think you are acting scummy. Instead of answering your strange question, I then gave the rest of those many reasons previously mentioned. That is up there for all to read and make of what they will, and I am fine with discussing any and all of them, but I will not retract or concede anything without talk.
I see. So you've realized your mistake and you're retracting your retraction. Noted.
If you want an answer to your other, strange question, id est why I would think you were on Not_Mafia's side, then I cannot give you a simple answer. I think decisions you have made in this thread have aligned you with him, and I think that shows in the treatment both of you have given HempHHH. I think that you voted for Not_Mafia up to L-1, and then left the wagon. Not_Mafia may be scum, and that is worth debating, but I am not eager to see scum everywhere and declare I found both of them on Day 1. I am only looking at you for now, Tr1ckster. If other people feel you give a good scumread, they will let us know, and if they decide to pursue Not_Mafia, that is up to them too. I am not even worried if my whole long read on you makes me look scummy, Tr1ckster, because that just means the town is taking everyone in good turn and stride.
So I'm scum because I questioned NM's scumminess, and instead of finding out whether or not he's scum, you're going to lynch me, because you think NM might not be scum as well?
Oh, and plot twist! You're questioning NM's scumminess as well! Are you trying to scum claim here?
As for mislynches, they happen, and it is Day 1, so the odds are high. However, that is, what, two votes on you and you are already talking of mislynches? The Day is young yet, Tr1ckster.
Did I say you would lynch me yet? No. I said you're starting the build up for a mislynch. Please stop misrepresenting me.
In post 123, Not_Mafia wrote:Comparing your vote on me to BBT's on Hemp is just a false equivalency amongst other strawmanning in your posts and I have gone on to explain my behaviour where Hemp has not, so not the same.
Are you chainsawing for Hemp?
I don't see much in the way of significant difference between Thor's vote on you (NM) and BBT's vote for Hemp. Both of these votes were essentially saying "You're not contributing anything useful to the thread at this point, start doing something or we lynch you". (BBT's vote put Hemp at L-2 whereas Thor's vote put NM at L-1; however, I don't see that as making a significant difference to the message which the votes were attempting to convey.)
Can you explain what you see as the difference between the two?
Thor was baiting an intent to hammer quickhammer
Thor knew you wouldn't take anything less than that seriously (as a reason to change your behaviour). An accurate judgement from him, I might add.
BBT hoped that Hemp would take L-2 seriously but at this point I'm not even sure that HempHHH understands the problems which we (or at least I) have with his play. Lemme see if I can do something about that.
I would like you to give me a read on someone in this game who you think is likely to be scum.
I would like you to explain why their posts in this thread make them likely to be scum, and why I should be voting for them.
I understand that the game isn't all that long so far and so there is room for error. Your case may be weak. However, I would like you to post it anyway.
I would like you to give me a read on someone in this game who you think is likely to be scum.
I would like you to explain why their posts in this thread make them likely to be scum, and why I should be voting for them.
I understand that the game isn't all that long so far and so there is room for error. Your case may be weak. However, I would like you to post it anyway.
Can you do the above for me?
The only things I can say so far, is Not_Mafia trying to lower his suspicion and Tr1ckster defending it then them both voting on me, other than that it is pretty much a guess.
I would like you to give me a read on someone in this game who you think is likely to be scum.
I would like you to explain why their posts in this thread make them likely to be scum, and why I should be voting for them.
I understand that the game isn't all that long so far and so there is room for error. Your case may be weak. However, I would like you to post it anyway.
Can you do the above for me?
The only things I can say so far, is Not_Mafia trying to lower his suspicion and Tr1ckster defending it then them both voting on me, other than that it is pretty much a guess.
I would like you to give me a read on someone in this game who you think is likely to be scum.
I would like you to explain why their posts in this thread make them likely to be scum, and why I should be voting for them.
I understand that the game isn't all that long so far and so there is room for error. Your case may be weak. However, I would like you to post it anyway.
Can you do the above for me?
The only things I can say so far, is Not_Mafia trying to lower his suspicion and Tr1ckster defending it then them both voting on me, other than that it is pretty much a guess.
What is your read on BlueBloodedToffee?
From what I have read, probably a townie so no harm there
In post 157, HempHHH wrote:
From what I have read, probably a townie so no harm there
What specifically from what you have read makes you think I am town?
Am I not ganging up on you with the third vote? Why is my vote different from NM's and Tr1ckster's?
Do you have reads on anybody else in the game?
You unvoted me, so maybe your scum trying to lower my suscipion on you, or you could be town, who the hell knows, i would need more evidence for you, as for the rest of the game, no because I have been busy lately
In post 160, HempHHH wrote:
You unvoted me, so maybe your scum trying to lower my suscipion on you, or you could be town, who the hell knows, i would need more evidence for you, as for the rest of the game, no because I have been busy lately
I have not unvoted you.
When you get some time, have a read through the thread, and see what you think so far.
I probably won't post something of worth until tomorrow morning (gmt +1) since I have a massive hangover at the moment (celebrated påsk yesterday). But I'll heed BBT's advice to HempHHH and have another read through of the last pages. :)
In post 143, HempHHH wrote:Well, theirs not much to say but I am just trying to find out who the hell is mafia
just like you
, and NM and you have been the most scummy becuase NM Self-Voted (Yes I know he unvoted) and you seem to be supporting him (once he unvoted) like you guys are partners in crime, please I do not want to go in circles anymore
Hemp assumes Trickster town then says he scum reads him. Slip or am I reading too much in to it?
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
In post 143, HempHHH wrote:Well, theirs not much to say but I am just trying to find out who the hell is mafia
just like you
, and NM and you have been the most scummy becuase NM Self-Voted (Yes I know he unvoted) and you seem to be supporting him (once he unvoted) like you guys are partners in crime, please I do not want to go in circles anymore
Hemp assumes Trickster town then says he scum reads him. Slip or am I reading too much in to it?
I reckon that "slip" could as easily be made by a townie who isn't really thinking about what he's saying. Or, as you say, it could be made by scum. Maybe even a scum who isn't really thinking about what he's saying. I'm not confident which of the above it is.
In post 143, HempHHH wrote:Well, theirs not much to say but I am just trying to find out who the hell is mafia just like you, and NM and you have been the most scummy becuase NM Self-Voted (Yes I know he unvoted) and you seem to be supporting him (once he unvoted) like you guys are partners in crime, please I do not want to go in circles anymore
In post 164, Not_Mafia wrote:Hemp assumes Trickster town then says he scum reads him. Slip or am I reading too much in to it?
Either he's scum who just made the biggest oppsie I've ever seen or he's town who's not really thinking through his answers and neither is very good. One thing is certain though, HempHHH's credibility is at an all time low. Adding this to his record of damaging town with his non-participating and dodging of questions -- let's just say he doesn't look too good in my eyes.
In post 120, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:When I voted for Hemp, he was posting the same thing over and over. He was not contributing, he hadn't joined in any of the discussions, he wouldn't answer questions, he wouldn't elaborate on his posts. These are reasons more worthy of trying to apply pressure to someone, not just a self-vote.
Ah, so...when Not_Mafia had self-voted, and been asked for reads and refused to give them, and had been asked by people why he had self voted and said "but the RNG" all of that was being totally helpful and not at all like what Hemp is doing...right?
I feel like that's *exactly* what Not_Mafia was doing. How am I wrong here?
I slightly pull back on my Madonna town read.
I endorse an Aquanim town read.
I might be tending town on Trickster too - shock, i know.
Can we please lynch BlueBloodedToffee now? I see a lot of people not voting him at this juncture - I feel the above quote from 120 should really be a fairly self-contained scum case for him. If people don't get it they could at least ask - and if people get it and disagree they should say why.
In post 120, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:When I voted for Hemp, he was posting the same thing over and over. He was not contributing, he hadn't joined in any of the discussions, he wouldn't answer questions, he wouldn't elaborate on his posts. These are reasons more worthy of trying to apply pressure to someone, not just a self-vote.
Ah, so...when Not_Mafia had self-voted, and been asked for reads and refused to give them, and had been asked by people why he had self voted and said "but the RNG" all of that was being totally helpful and not at all like what Hemp is doing...right?
I feel like that's *exactly* what Not_Mafia was doing. How am I wrong here?
I slightly pull back on my Madonna town read.
I endorse an Aquanim town read.
I might be tending town on Trickster too - shock, i know.
Can we please lynch BlueBloodedToffee now? I see a lot of people not voting him at this juncture - I feel the above quote from 120 should really be a fairly self-contained scum case for him. If people don't get it they could at least ask - and if people get it and disagree they should say why.
OK, I'll try one more time; just for you.
I agreed with you that NM was being difficult and probably downright stupid with the self-vote and the nonsense that followed, although I don't believe he refused to provide reads? My point was, you wanted to lynch him in your very first post. I explained that this was a problem for me because if he accidentally got lynched, I believed (and still do) that losing two weeks worth of discussion when hardly anybody knew anybody else due to only having 4 pages or whatever it was at the time, was a bad thing for town. This was the main point from my side of the discussion, which you disagreed with.
Now, NM explained his behaviour, a bad explanation but an explanation nonetheless. Hemp has done nothing to change my opinion, and other people's opinions from the looks of it, of him through his posting. I also explained that I had a lot more information available to me at the time of my Hemp vote, than you did at the time of your NM vote.
In post 120, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:When I voted for Hemp, he was posting the same thing over and over. He was not contributing, he hadn't joined in any of the discussions, he wouldn't answer questions, he wouldn't elaborate on his posts. These are reasons more worthy of trying to apply pressure to someone, not just a self-vote.
Ah, so...when Not_Mafia had self-voted, and been asked for reads and refused to give them, and had been asked by people why he had self voted and said "but the RNG" all of that was being totally helpful and not at all like what Hemp is doing...right?
I feel like that's *exactly* what Not_Mafia was doing. How am I wrong here?
I slightly pull back on my Madonna town read.
I endorse an Aquanim town read.
I might be tending town on Trickster too - shock, i know.
Can we please lynch BlueBloodedToffee now? I see a lot of people not voting him at this juncture - I feel the above quote from 120 should really be a fairly self-contained scum case for him. If people don't get it they could at least ask - and if people get it and disagree they should say why.
OK, I'll try one more time; just for you.
I agreed with you that NM was being difficult and probably downright stupid with the self-vote and the nonsense that followed, although I don't believe he refused to provide reads? My point was, you wanted to lynch him in your very first post. I explained that this was a problem for me because if he accidentally got lynched, I believed (and still do) that losing two weeks worth of discussion when hardly anybody knew anybody else due to only having 4 pages or whatever it was at the time, was a bad thing for town. This was the main point from my side of the discussion, which you disagreed with.
Now, NM explained his behaviour, a bad explanation but an explanation nonetheless. Hemp has done nothing to change my opinion, and other people's opinions from the looks of it, of him through his posting. I also explained that I had a lot more information available to me at the time of my Hemp vote, than you did at the time of your NM vote.
I have to admit I was not paying attention enough to this game
In post 168, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I agreed with you that NM was being difficult and probably downright stupid with the self-vote and the nonsense that followed, although I don't believe he refused to provide reads?
He did.
In post 168, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:My point was, you wanted to lynch him in your very first post. I explained that this was a problem for me because if he accidentally got lynched, I believed (and still do) that losing two weeks worth of discussion when hardly anybody knew anybody else due to only having 4 pages or whatever it was at the time, was a bad thing for town. This was the main point from my side of the discussion, which you disagreed with.
So...you draw that big of a distinction between L-1 and L-2? I have a hard time believing that. You *don't* think your vote has any risk of causing a short day?
In post 168, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Now, NM explained his behaviour, a bad explanation but an explanation nonetheless. Hemp has done nothing to change my opinion, and other people's opinions from the looks of it, of him through his posting. I also explained that I had a lot more information available to me at the time of my Hemp vote, than you did at the time of your NM vote.
This doesn't address how both sets of actions remain almost identical.
I disagree that you have "more info" on their relative poor play. I agree both are playing poorly, I'm not sure how Hemp is playing 'more poorly'
In post 169, HempHHH wrote:I have to admit I was not paying attention enough to this game
Do you expect that to change?
If so - when?
If not - why not, and why did you even sign up if this is the case?
In post 168, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I agreed with you that NM was being difficult and probably downright stupid with the self-vote and the nonsense that followed, although I don't believe he refused to provide reads?
He did.
In post 168, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:My point was, you wanted to lynch him in your very first post. I explained that this was a problem for me because if he accidentally got lynched, I believed (and still do) that losing two weeks worth of discussion when hardly anybody knew anybody else due to only having 4 pages or whatever it was at the time, was a bad thing for town. This was the main point from my side of the discussion, which you disagreed with.
So...you draw that big of a distinction between L-1 and L-2? I have a hard time believing that. You *don't* think your vote has any risk of causing a short day?
In post 168, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Now, NM explained his behaviour, a bad explanation but an explanation nonetheless. Hemp has done nothing to change my opinion, and other people's opinions from the looks of it, of him through his posting. I also explained that I had a lot more information available to me at the time of my Hemp vote, than you did at the time of your NM vote.
This doesn't address how both sets of actions remain almost identical.
I disagree that you have "more info" on their relative poor play. I agree both are playing poorly, I'm not sure how Hemp is playing 'more poorly'
In post 169, HempHHH wrote:I have to admit I was not paying attention enough to this game
Do you expect that to change?
If so - when?
If not - why not, and why did you even sign up if this is the case?
I mean I will still play and be on this forum, I will still play in this game, of course I might be lynched, but this is a lesson for me for the future
In post 171, HempHHH wrote:I mean I will still play and be on this forum, I will still play in this game, of course I might be lynched, but this is a lesson for me for the future
If it's a lesson why not try to learn it now and get involved with this game?
Can we please lynch BlueBloodedToffee now? I see a lot of people not voting him at this juncture - I feel the above quote from 120 should really be a fairly self-contained scum case for him. If people don't get it they could at least ask - and if people get it and disagree they should say why.
BlueBloodedToffee stretching the truth about why people were voting for N_M to justify his own Hemp vote is indeed pretty sketchy. There's another aspect to BBT's play this game which also makes me suspicious - namely, he has a lot of weak reads
and doesn't seem to be doing anything to improve them
I really, really don't like how quickly Thor jumped on the NM wagon. You seemed to be OK with an early D1 lynch, which is obviously bad for town. However, you're an IC and I don't believe you would be silly enough to do this as scum. Why did you feel the need to do this? Was it purely down to NM's self-vote?
There's also the fact that NM is coming across as scummy so far in this thread and I highly doubt you would put your newbie scum partner under that much early pressure. So, at this point, I have a slight town read on Thor and a slight scum read on NM.
NM is also not being very helpful so far either. Strange posting without much direction/content. Even if he is town, he is going to need to up his game if he is going to help out in any way.
Tr1ckster is coming across weird to me. I was developing a town-read on him after the first couple of pages, but then his willingness to throw his vote around and possibly be OK with an early D1 lynch without any real good reason yet concerned me. Not sure what to make of him yet.
Aquanim and Madonna come across as null/slight town reads so far, although Madonna's comments on being happy to watch an early D1 lynch are again, a little concerning. We have 2 weeks for a reason, let's use this time to actually come up with some useful reads/information for a lynch.
These reads are pretty weak. And that's fine, up to a point. His read on Thor contradicts itself, which I don't like, but sometimes it happens. There is a question to Thor in there, which is a start... but it isn't a question which gives me much confidence that BBT is putting a great deal of thought into scumhunting.
The reads on NM, Tr1ckster, myself and Madonna basically boil down to "I dunno".
Now, let me reiterate:
Having only weak reads early on day 1 is fine. It is not scummy.
What DOES reflect a scum mentality is a lack of interest in improving reads by interacting with the players in question.
BlueBloodedToffee himself says we should be "actually coming up with useful reads/information"... but his actions don't seem designed to accomplish this.
I don't expect anybody in this game to demonstrate a clear interest in drawing out information with
every
post. The point is that I think very few of BBT's posts satisfy that description. Furthermore the posts which do satisfy that description are not particularly insightful, and don't really satisfy me that BBT is putting significant effort into solving the game.
That being out of the way, let's take a look at his total contributions to the thread.
I'd like to start the game off with a couple questions.. just because it's a Newbie game and it's good to ask questions!
1. You probably are about to vote for some random person you've never voted for before. Why? Why that person in particular?
2. Have you ever played mafia before? IRL or on a forum? Where?
3. What can you give to this game, why are you important here? What role do you think you'll play as the game develops? Do you tend to post in short bursts or in long paragraphs? A mixture?
4. How often can you visit the thread?
1. Already done and answered.
2. Never played before. Have my first game ongoing, that's it.
3. I'm not really sure how to answer this due to having limited experience of the game so far, I don't even know how to play a full game. I have a mixture of post lengths though, depends what I am posting about.
4. Right now, I can probably visit around 4-6 times a day, maybe more, so expect me to be very active. From 28/4 onwards however, I will be busy and my activity levels will drop, should still be able to get on at least once a day though.
In post 27, Not_Mafia wrote:Guys. Stahp. The RNG rolled 6, what else could I do?
Roll again?
No meaningful content.
In post 33, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:@Trickster - I think the self vote is just a way to sit back and see what is going on without actually having any input, which is obviously bad for town.
The self-vote does bring attention to himself however, but as of right now, I'm not sure that this means, if it means anything. Also, whilst all of the early votes are random, when people provide some sort of reasoning, stupid, funny, or otherwise, it gives other people something to talk about. By claiming he uses a RNG, he gives absolutely nothing to work with.
Reply to Tr1ckster's #30. I also disagree that NM claiming he uses an RNG contains any less content than some made-up nonsense based on someone's name. I reckon BBT is stretching a bit here - however his argument is at least beleivable.
I really, really don't like how quickly Thor jumped on the NM wagon. You seemed to be OK with an early D1 lynch, which is obviously bad for town. However, you're an IC and I don't believe you would be silly enough to do this as scum. Why did you feel the need to do this? Was it purely down to NM's self-vote?
There's also the fact that NM is coming across as scummy so far in this thread and I highly doubt you would put your newbie scum partner under that much early pressure. So, at this point, I have a slight town read on Thor and a slight scum read on NM.
NM is also not being very helpful so far either. Strange posting without much direction/content. Even if he is town, he is going to need to up his game if he is going to help out in any way.
Tr1ckster is coming across weird to me. I was developing a town-read on him after the first couple of pages, but then his willingness to throw his vote around and possibly be OK with an early D1 lynch without any real good reason yet concerned me. Not sure what to make of him yet.
Aquanim and Madonna come across as null/slight town reads so far, although Madonna's comments on being happy to watch an early D1 lynch are again, a little concerning. We have 2 weeks for a reason, let's use this time to actually come up with some useful reads/information for a lynch.
These reads are pretty weak. And that's fine, up to a point. His read on Thor contradicts itself, which I don't like, but sometimes it happens. There is a question to Thor in there, which is a start... but it isn't a question which gives me much confidence that BBT is putting a great deal of thought into scumhunting.
The reads on NM, Tr1ckster, myself and Madonna basically boil down to "I dunno".
Now, let me reiterate:
Having only weak reads early on day 1 is fine. It is not scummy.
What DOES reflect a scum mentality is a lack of interest in improving reads by interacting with the players in question.
BlueBloodedToffee himself says we should be "actually coming up with useful reads/information"... but his actions don't seem designed to accomplish this.
: How do you think Not_Mafia's read on HempHHH reflects on NM? Do you have a read on HempHHH yourself?
I don't really make much of NM's reads on Hemp. However, I just looked at it from the other perspective, looking at Hemp's posts and it seems off to me.
In post 72, Not_Mafia wrote:Why is that reason to quickhammer, why not just keep your early reads but still fully utilise the 14 days
UNVOTE: Not_Mafia
So I did actually RNG and I did roll a 6, I was going to re-roll but then I thought I'd try it out as a reaction test, I was either looking for people who were eager to jump on my wagon or people who whiteknighted me out of the blue. It wasn't very successful.
1) Aquanim - Slight town
2) BlueBloodedToffee - Town, towniest read, I liked his inquisitive response
3) HempHHH - I don't like that he didn't even acknowledge my posting, skittish scum trying to play around it?
4) JasonWazza - Post pls
5) Madonna - Weird posting style makes him hard to read
6) Not_Mafia - Scum
7) Thor665 - Not a fan of the way he jumped on my wagon
8) Tr1ckster - I was thinking town, but those last few posts are concerning me now
9) Tynn - slight town
VOTE: HempHHH
Serious vote. Why are you scumreading Trickster and why did you not reference my self voting, which was the main topic on your entry?
You never asked me anything directly, and your probably self-voting to decrease your suspicion, but you fail to realize that has to opposite effect.
Hemp comes in and immediately tries to take the attention that is building on NM away by making a nonsensical claim that he believes one of the more experienced players are scum, without actually saying why. Now, would he do this as town or would he do this as scum? Let's just think for a second if NM and Hemp were scum partners, this is how Hemp would react right? It also may be seen as a newbie tactic to try and remove the more experienced players, and thus better players, out of the game as early as possible.
He then proceeds to ask NM why he self-voted. NM doesn't answer his question, so he answers it himself. The feeling I get from post 77 is Hemp basically saying 'you're self voting hasn't worked, you tried to decrease suspicion which hasn't worked, please take your vote off because everybody is focusing in on you.
Of course, he may just be town who doesn't want an early lynch. I just don't get that feeling from his posts and this is something I am certainly going to keep my eye on.
Again a wishy-washy read on Hemp... he also kind of side-steps my original question about Not_Mafia, preferring to talk about the possibility of a NM/Hemp scumteam. Perhaps he simply misunderstood, or maybe he's not interested or comfortable with analysing another player from a particular perspective (which would indicate scum).
In post 86, Aquanim wrote:@BlueBloodedToffee: Most of your thoughts there (post 85) are based on the supposition that HempHHH and Not_Mafia are mafia together. I'm not a fan of trying to associate scumbuddies together before any scum have flipped; however, that aside, Not_Mafia's agression towards HempHHH would make that partnership... unintuitive, in my opinion. Do you disagree?
Supposing that you somehow knew Not_Mafia was... well, not mafia, what is your read on HempHHH in that case?
I was looking for a reaction from either Hemp or NM. Hemp replied with a weird question which didn't really respond to anything that I wrote and NM pretty much ignored it. I'm not really sure what to make of that from either of them. In addition, I am by no means claiming I have found both scum on day one within a couple of days, that would be preposterous. I'm simply searching for information, a failed attempt it would seem.
I really, really don't like how quickly Thor jumped on the NM wagon. You seemed to be OK with an early D1 lynch, which is obviously bad for town. However, you're an IC and I don't believe you would be silly enough to do this as scum. Why did you feel the need to do this? Was it purely down to NM's self-vote?
There's also the fact that NM is coming across as scummy so far in this thread and I highly doubt you would put your newbie scum partner under that much early pressure. So, at this point, I have a slight town read on Thor and a slight scum read on NM.
NM is also not being very helpful so far either. Strange posting without much direction/content. Even if he is town, he is going to need to up his game if he is going to help out in any way.
Tr1ckster is coming across weird to me. I was developing a town-read on him after the first couple of pages, but then his willingness to throw his vote around and possibly be OK with an early D1 lynch without any real good reason yet concerned me. Not sure what to make of him yet.
Aquanim and Madonna come across as null/slight town reads so far, although Madonna's comments on being happy to watch an early D1 lynch are again, a little concerning. We have 2 weeks for a reason, let's use this time to actually come up with some useful reads/information for a lynch.
You didn't mention Hemp or Tynn. Is there a reason for this?
Also... I would shy away from reads lists for now ... especially this early in the game. They can help scum figure out who to NK that night by telling you who you're willing to lynch tomorrow, among other things.
I didn't mention them because I didn't think they were very active, I pretty much focused on the main situation that was happening (NM's self-vote, early day lynch) and didn't really look at anything else. I guess they just flew below my radar for that post. I also don't post reads/thoughts on everyone if I feel I don't have a lot to add/anything useful.
I have no problem posting reads. Obviously it's early, and there is a high probability that most, if not all, are wrong but it helps to provide some sort of information and can provoke discussions/questions.
In post 97, Thor665 wrote:
Is it obviously bad for town? Why? Also, do you think an early L-1 wagon is also obviously bad?
I felt the need to do it to try to educate Not_Mafia that he was playing provably badly, and also to see if he might be scum. I still lean that it was a slightly scummy reaction to my vote but don't feel strongly about it.
Why do you find my vote the only one worth questioning on his wagon? I didn't put him in lynch range alone, but I was the only one moving 'too fast' in your mind?
It's bad for town because 2 weeks worth of discussion can go down the pan, that could be a lot of potential information that isn't only useful for D1 but can also be used later in the game. To an IC, I thought this would have been fairly obvious. If someone had come in, and not paid attention to what was going on so far, and voted for NM, we would have lost a lot of information.
I don't really have much experience of L-1 wagons. However, trying to make somebody claim this early seems really bad, and only good for scum. If NM had to claim a power role to save his life, he could lie of course but let's just assume he doesn't, town are at a huge disadvantage with a power role exposed. Again, I'm not sure why I have to explain this to an IC. L-1 wagons are good for applying pressure and increasing activity for sure, but that was really early and I'm sure it was warranted.
I had a problem with your vote because a) you're an IC who looked super happy to lynch straight away and b) you voted for him in your very first post knowing he already had 3 votes and there was a chance somebody could lynch him by mistake.
Answering questions from myself, Tr1ckster and Thor. I again feel like he sidestepped my question, the answer to Tr1ckster's question is immaterial and the answer to Thor's question is a pretty easy answer to make.
I would be careful about letting people fly underneath your radar. I think it's interesting that you said you don't post reads/thoughts on everyone if you feel you don't have a lot to add/anything useful... but two posts later you post some very useful stuff on Hemp.
Like I said, I glossed over the information and focused on the main activity points. I believe it was Aquanim who asked me about the Hemp/NM situation also and I was responding to their post.
: When you say "one of the more experienced people is mafia", who in this game do you consider as "experienced"?
Also, is there something in particular about the play of the "experienced people"
as a group
which makes you think this?
I think a SE is a mafia
These posts really are not helping anyone, it's barely a contribution. You're making nonsensical claims with nothing to back up what you are saying.
VOTE: HempHHH
This places you at L-2.
Voting HempHHH could be construed as pressuring him in an attempt to extract information, which would be town-motivated. However, at this point HempHHH is a very safe place for a scum to park his vote, too.
In post 110, HempHHH wrote:
Dude its the first day, how the hell do I know who is Mafia ?
I'm not asking you to pick out both mafia on day one, although if you could that would be nice. What I am saying is that you're not contributing very much to the discussions that are ongoing. You're stating the same thing over and over, with nothing to back up what you're saying and it's just one line at a time.
Contribute, ask questions, discuss, provide information; that's all I am asking.
BBT claims the town-oriented motivation for his vote. I don't feel inclined to take his word for it, but it is perhaps a small towny sign that he knows what it is.
In post 114, Thor665 wrote:
1. Is that obvious? I've been in exactly one Newbie game that had an early speed lynch - Town won that game. What is your evidence supporting that speed lynches tend to lead to town losses? I mean, if it's silly that I, as an IC, wouldn't agree with that - clearly it's a well known fact with supporting evidence...right?
2. I do not understand how you think a claim is bad. A claim is good. If people don't want a claim early then they shouldn't vote people. Claims, and L-1 wagons with hammer intent create trackable evidence of who people are willing to lynch and also provide information. If you agree that after two weeks a claim is "good" then I don't see the issue with having a claim at one week, or two days, or one day. If it happening is good (and I presume you're not arguing that there shouldn't be a claim) then the time it happens is merely one of preference, not an absolute.
3a. I was looking super happy to lynch right away. Is that scummy? Why?
3b. Yes, I did vote him...so did a number of other people. Why am I the only one who would be guilty if he was lynched? I'm pretty sure I can't lynch people on my own.
Like take this - here you are pushing for a lynch. You're making an aggressive and early move...something you seem to find questionable when others do it. But...I guess since you're not L-1 and not an IC it isn't scummy when you do it? Is that right?
I don't believe I have stated that early lynches lead to town losses - if I have, please provide evidence to correct me. Do you disagree that losing 2 weeks/1 week/5 days worth more discussion is a bad thing?
I'm arguing about the timing of the claim. You were looking for a claim when we hadn't even had everyone post in the thread at that point and the game had barely started.
I thought I explained why it looks scummy to want a lynch straight away. I'm pretty sure I did. You're repeating your questions for some reason.
I'm applying pressure for information, I'm not looking for an instant lynch. I also got a quick reaction from Hemp, which is exactly what I was looking for. There are also more reasons to start applying pressure to Hemp, as opposed to your rant on NM's self-vote and proceeding vote to L-1. I hope you can see the difference between the two.
Just answering some questions for Thor, mostly not about actual reads.
In post 118, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I don't believe I have stated that early lynches lead to town losses - if I have, please provide evidence to correct me. Do you disagree that losing 2 weeks/1 week/5 days worth more discussion is a bad thing?
I do disagree that loss of time is a bad thing. It is not. Is that the full extent of your reasoning that an early lynch is bad for town?
In post 118, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I'm arguing about the timing of the claim. You were looking for a claim when we hadn't even had everyone post in the thread at that point and the game had barely started.
So when am I allowed to want a claim? Only after everyone has posted at least once? What difference would that make?
In post 118, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I thought I explained why it looks scummy to want a lynch straight away. I'm pretty sure I did. You're repeating your questions for some reason.
I'm repeating it because the answers you've provided don't actually show scum intent. At most they show 'a playstyle you disagree with'.
I can explain the difference if needed, but I'm curious why you think it's a scum plan.
In post 118, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I'm applying pressure for information, I'm not looking for an instant lynch. I also got a quick reaction from Hemp, which is exactly what I was looking for. There are also more reasons to start applying pressure to Hemp, as opposed to your rant on NM's self-vote and proceeding vote to L-1. I hope you can see the difference between the two.
Oh, so when you do it it's "pressure for info"
But when I do it it's "rushing and forcing a claim"
Yes, I need you to explain the difference between the two - they appear identical.
That was pretty much it yeah. A couple of days worth of discussion does not help town later in the game. The more posts/information you have, the better chance you have of making informed decisions further down the line. There is also a chance for people to make mistakes as the day goes on. Do you disagree with this?
You're being facetious. You can want a claim whenever you like, it makes more sense however to wait until you can give some valid reasons for why you want a claim from a specific player, not just OMG he self-voted. Claim now.
OK, I'm gonna try again. The less information there is in the thread, the better that is for scum. The less information there is in a thread, the harder it is to make reads on people. The less information there is in a thread, the better the scum have of surviving an extra day without getting lynched.
OK, at the time of your vote to push NM to L-1, he hadn't actually done anything worthy of all his votes, and one of them was a RVS vote. I agree he was being difficult, with his short, pointless posts, but worthy of a claim/accidental lynch, I don't think so.
When I voted for Hemp, he was posting the same thing over and over. He was not contributing, he hadn't joined in any of the discussions, he wouldn't answer questions, he wouldn't elaborate on his posts. These are reasons more worthy of trying to apply pressure to someone, not just a self-vote.
I can't be any more clear than that.
Well, BlueBloodedToffee is doing a lot of thinking about this conversation with Thor about pressuring earlygame. What I'm still not seeing is him really trying to figure out Thor's or anybody else's alignments.
In post 122, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:OK, I feel like we're about to start going round in circles. Until next time.
In post 157, HempHHH wrote:
From what I have read, probably a townie so no harm there
What specifically from what you have read makes you think I am town?
Am I not ganging up on you with the third vote? Why is my vote different from NM's and Tr1ckster's?
Do you have reads on anybody else in the game?
This is a start; BBT is trying to quiz Hemp here. Still though, these are some pretty obvious questions to ask. Scum also have a tendency to be interested in other people's reads on themselves, but townies can be interested in it too so this isn't conclusive.
In post 160, HempHHH wrote:
You unvoted me, so maybe your scum trying to lower my suscipion on you, or you could be town, who the hell knows, i would need more evidence for you, as for the rest of the game, no because I have been busy lately
I have not unvoted you.
When you get some time, have a read through the thread, and see what you think so far.
In post 120, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:When I voted for Hemp, he was posting the same thing over and over. He was not contributing, he hadn't joined in any of the discussions, he wouldn't answer questions, he wouldn't elaborate on his posts. These are reasons more worthy of trying to apply pressure to someone, not just a self-vote.
Ah, so...when Not_Mafia had self-voted, and been asked for reads and refused to give them, and had been asked by people why he had self voted and said "but the RNG" all of that was being totally helpful and not at all like what Hemp is doing...right?
I feel like that's *exactly* what Not_Mafia was doing. How am I wrong here?
I slightly pull back on my Madonna town read.
I endorse an Aquanim town read.
I might be tending town on Trickster too - shock, i know.
Can we please lynch BlueBloodedToffee now? I see a lot of people not voting him at this juncture - I feel the above quote from 120 should really be a fairly self-contained scum case for him. If people don't get it they could at least ask - and if people get it and disagree they should say why.
OK, I'll try one more time; just for you.
I agreed with you that NM was being difficult and probably downright stupid with the self-vote and the nonsense that followed, although I don't believe he refused to provide reads? My point was, you wanted to lynch him in your very first post. I explained that this was a problem for me because if he accidentally got lynched, I believed (and still do) that losing two weeks worth of discussion when hardly anybody knew anybody else due to only having 4 pages or whatever it was at the time, was a bad thing for town. This was the main point from my side of the discussion, which you disagreed with.
Now, NM explained his behaviour, a bad explanation but an explanation nonetheless. Hemp has done nothing to change my opinion, and other people's opinions from the looks of it, of him through his posting. I also explained that I had a lot more information available to me at the time of my Hemp vote, than you did at the time of your NM vote.
Some more talking with Thor about stuff not really related to reads.
Summary of content: A bunch of fluff, a long-winded discussion with Thor about votes for HempHHH vs. votes for Not_Mafia, and a couple of ok but lacklustre questions of and pressure of HempHHH. As far as I can see he's not doing *anything* to improve his weak reads on Tr1ckster, Madonna, myself, or the other players he hasn't stated a read of at all yet. His posts have enough redeeming features that I'm not certain yet, but this is definitely good enough for
