MS Fantasy Camp 2: Reaper's Tale! (Finished!)

[Zdenek]

camn someone w. a town read on zedio tell me why hes town thank you

oh huh maybe zeds not scuim.

Chance you could give some words on this?

[Zdenek]

Something like what posts you read say? If you took sixty's advice that is.

[chamber]

So, you don't think that he'd have become more comfortable as scum in that time?

He may have? Far be it for me to underestimate him. On the other hand I've been playing for the better part of a decade and still hate drawing scum. If I actually took issue with any of his posts I would likely not be willing to count on my experience as his only defense, but I don't independent of it.

[Cerulean]

He's in my potential scum by PoE pool but I don't have a read on him independently of that. I've only skimmed his stuff and I have some questions for him but I'm going to hold on to them 'til later when I have more time to actually sit down and read more closely.

P-edit: ...that was actually one of the things I was going to ask about =/

[Cerulean]

Above p-edit was re: Zdenek's 850, sorry.

[Flipping Awesome]

Zdenek, I'll talk more on my Nero Cain and Katsuki reads when I develop them further. I felt Katsuki understanding why I scumread him was town because of how I think he expects me to sort him. I probably won't be elaborating on that point though.

Nacho, we are at the same place mostly. I think you agree with all seven of my townreads which is great. I am coming around to seeing Shadoweh and UT as town and Penguin leans town on them as well I think. I also agree with your points on Tim Howard and potentially Nero Cain but those two are something we need to discuss in more detail. Penguin has concerns about both but for me, it is more that I just want to be certain before putting them as town. I'lll have to think about Venmar as well. I'll probably post an updated reads list tonight, I am checking in-between classes right now. Based on your POE, it seems as though you are saying scum are likely among Katsuki, Kanye, Reck, NS, and Plum. I'm glad we're on the same page for the most part. I'll have a better idea once I get a chance to dig into their meta. I am also waffling on Plum after seeing that tonally she played a lot differently in the We're on a Boat game.

Empire, would be interested in seeing your POE pool when you find time to discuss it. Also, would like to hear your thoughts on Plum.

~ F-16

[Zdenek]

his comment about the gamestate being weird and hard to read is true enough

Can you say what you were thinking here?

I think the placement of his votes is opportunistic - not in the traditional overblown "lol I can take advantage of it to drive a Shadoweh lynch here and now!" but come out of a desire to take advantage of certain things in the gamestate. I think that was possibly the case with his TH vote and more likely than that was the case for his Shadoweh vote.

What things in the game-state do you think that NS was taking advantage of when he voted Tim Howard?

[Zdenek]

I felt Katsuki understanding why I scumread him was town because of how I think he expects me to sort him. I probably won't be elaborating on that point though.

I thought it had something to do with him wanting to know about PA's reasons for scum reading him.

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 1, VC 28

Tim Howard - (6):

Zdenek, Katsuki, Plum, Shadoweh, kanyeknowsbest, Sixty

Katsuki - (1):

sangres

Venmar - (2):

Nero Cain

, Untrod Tripod

Shadoweh - (4):

ChannelDelibird, chamber, Cerulean, Nobody Special

Zdenek - (1):

xRECKONERx

xRECKONERx - (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Nero Cain - (1):

Venmar

Plum - (2):

Flipping Awesome, Tim Howard

Not voting - (0):

---

With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1:

26th of April at 5pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-04-26 12:00:00)
Plum is V/la.

[/area]

[Shadoweh]

Based on your POE, it seems as though you are saying scum are likely among Katsuki, Kanye, Reck, NS, and Plum. I'm glad we're on the same page for the most part. I'll have a better idea once I get a chance to dig into their meta. I am also waffling on Plum after seeing that tonally she played a lot differently in the We're on a Boat game.

Tonally it seems like Plum has trouble getting solid reads on Day 1 and sounds a little confused as Town, but doesn't have problems bullshitting reasons to lynch people as scum, just from skimming those games. It's hard to make judgements about someone who's been V/LA so much >_>

I would sheep Nacho if people are actually going to do it, so if peeps want to actually do Katsuki.. I'm not keen on resplitting up the votes if everyone is just going to sit there again though. (I'm hereish but mostly going to be not mafiaing on pain of death via roleplaying)

[Cerulean]

I'm here. Before I catch up in the thread and do other stuff I wanted to do with this game, I ISO'd kanye and wanted to leave these questions here for him to answer (please and thanks ):

1) When you tried to wagon Sixty at the beginning of the game, did you get any reads off of it? What is your current read on Sixty?
2) What differences are you seeing between Shadoweh as town in the ASoIaF U-Pick and Shadoweh in this game? Any thoughts on Shadoweh's comments regarding the town color in this game?
3) Explain your strong townread on Katsuki.

Also, really want the answer to Zdenek's question especially.

[kanyeknowsbest]

re: zedio my original scum read was based on his really odd play around my 60 vote and his declaration that he was going to be doing something different. i reexamined him after his tim vote (which i really liked, the way he went abt it and everything) and his following play around that. but the real clincher for me is i put myself in his shoes, and were right on the tail of fire and ice where he became really obvscum day1 by getting stuck in the trap that is arguing w. me abt stupid shit. i take that into consideration and as scum in this game i think that he simply avoids me early since he knows it wont get him anywhere, which is pretty conflicting w. his move to jump hard on my 60 vote.

[kanyeknowsbest]

@ cerelueo

1) n. i thought id have the time to do some work on it but i didnt. as such it did not work for my usual early d1 reads generation. pass on the sixty portion of this q
2) i had a real strong gut town read on shadowy in fire and ice. i dont have that here. i missed her color comment, point it out 4 me pls ty
3) nope. ill only do that if its to save him from the rope, otherwise i refuse to divulge how i read katsuki (ive never 1nce been wrong abt him and i intend to keep it that way)

[Shadoweh]

When I die I'm changing my avatar to Cerulean's with an

X

through it.

[Cerulean]

Have we played together? I've barely played for like a year, and I don't recall playing with either of your heads (Nexus). This comment makes me uneasy unless you can give me some meta - (unless of course you're going to turn around and say you've been reading all my old games in which case wow)

Well, then, get ready to say wow. Just off the top of my head, I've read Mafiastuck (I was in this game as part of a hydra with petapan, we died N1), Abarat 2, Red Wedding, UK Scummers Invitational, and Breaking Bad. All of those games were ongoing at the time I read them - whenever I'm bored/have nothing to do/feel like procrastinating, I usually end up reading games I'm not in as a way to test my scumhunting because it's fun.

The first Harry Potter game had Penguin and CDB as scumbuddies. I read it a few months ago. The second Harry Potter game had all of me, Penguin and CDB as town and he was fairly obvious town there. BUT, I was more confident in my read there than I am here. The other town games were ones that I followed but want to go back and re-read. Assuming we solidify our read on CDB, we are willing to take his word on Nexus/Quadz for D1. Katsuki is a more major project and I've played a few games with him and spectated others so I'll figure out where I stand after looking through these games.

@ Ffery

, I am looking forward to discussing his meta too. I see you played a lot of games with him. You said you were waiting for Nacho but I'd like to hear your thoughts as well. Why wait for Nacho? Penguin's played games with him as well so that'll be a nice discussion. I am linking Venmar's Micro 53 mostly because I want to read Empire's case and Penguin was in the X-Men Micro. Also, interesting thing about Shadoweh is that she is somewhat dominating? as scum. See Fall of Gondolin where Tierce and Shadoweh basically directed the town in the initial phases. I'd like to hear your thoughts about that game as well Tierce, I was following it. I haven't played with Shadoweh before but Penguin was in the invitational game. Penguin found Plum scummy but I'm not sure. I was in Attack of Titan as scum when she was town and read the On a Boat game.

I'll go through these one-by-one (I was going to include these in my upcoming reads wall but figured why not here):

CDB:

From my understanding, CDB really dislikes being scum - he tends to lurk and his posting generally reads as meek. When he's town, he's a lot more confident, almost willing to assume a leadership position, not afraid to state his thoughts even when they go against the norm. The way he comments on the Tim Howard wagon as a bad one and then wants to steer people to a better vote in #325 followed by his repeatedly encouraging / asking people to join him on the Shadoweh wagon follows the kind of self-assured attitude that I don't think I've ever seen CDB successfully replicate as scum. I also like the way he inserts himself between Tim Howard and Zdenek early on (two of his townreads), scum don't usually put in as much effort into playing the mediator that he had there, they usually tend to consider TvT infighting either dismissively or not at all. A more minor point, but his repeated insistence that Tim Howard is town, complete with the post where he sites his experiences with Nexus, reads town as it comes across as though he genuinely believes in the read.
-> As an aside, the main issue that I have with sheeping his read on Tim Howard is that, from experience, I feel as though we're just naturally biased towards reading our friends as town (it definitely happened to me in Yoloville and I think it's at least part of the reason I got away with as much as I did in Faraday's ASoIaF U-Pick).

Katsuki:

I know the caps obscures it a bit, but you gotta look beyond it and into his tone. The one meta-based tell I have on him is that Katsuki is overall way lazier/lurkier as town. He puts in a lot more effort to giving thoughtful responses to people, building at least some semblance of a case, and showing even a hint of aggression as scum (check the two scum games again for examples of what I mean). I don't see any of the latter here - the expectation that a player he's familiar with be capable of reading him correctly as town is something that I've seen consistently across his town games, and while it's an easy smokescreen for scum generally speaking as it relieves the burden of having to put forth any meaningful content, Katsuki's meta turns that idea on its head.

Shadoweh:

I was ready to be all over her for the color thing but the way she's responded to Tammy's/chamber's/my accusations reminds me of the way she got hella mad at me in The Wire for my early push on her. I know she'd probably try and fake that angle here but she just sounds more genuine than I'd expect her to be as scum. Part of me is worried that I'm falling for the same bait that I did in Wingate Mansion, but eh. All I know is that her being domineering (this is the word you were looking for) is not indicative of her alignment at all.

Plum:

I'd really like to say that Plum's behavior in this game is consistent with scum boxed in by a lack of good lynch options (as her case on NS / vote on Tim Howard might suggest), but the stasis in this game seems like it's affecting everyone (it's definitely affecting me right now). The closest thing I've found that reminds me of the On A Boat game where she was my scumbuddy is #542 where there's a lack of focus that doesn't appear to be there when she's town (I read SpyreX's Wizard game and the Attack on Titan game while they were ongoing and correctly read her as town there) but that could just be a side effect of this particular game. Right now, she's in my PoE pool but got no read on her independently of that here, which is annoying.

I've already spoken at some length about Venmar and don't really feel like driving it in again.

I thought Cerulean's early posts were incredibly scummy, but they've been towntelling lately. I could absolutely support a Cerulean wagon though.

This makes absolutely no sense: you're saying my slot's been towntelling but you could "absolutely" support a wagon on our slot?

---

P-edit: Shadoweh, that's mean.

Honestly, I don't even feel that strongly that you're scum anymore, I just have no idea what I'm doing right now. I've got a nice handful of townreads but for some reason lack a sense of direction in this game (apparently the only scumread I have that I'm even remotely confident in right now sucks, maybe I'm just bad/rusty, I dunno).

Unvote

Bleh. Going to try hitting the game again in the next hour or so and seeing what I can manage.

[Cerulean]

EBWOP: Kanye, it's this post.

[kanyeknowsbest]

im not sure what youre getting @ re shadowy? are you trying to suggest scum shadowy would be more aware of faction colors? for me its straight null since theres a lot of wifom involved trying to go either way w it.

[ChannelDelibird]

I really don't want this day to end in a Tim lynch. I'll see if I can put together an actual case of some kind on someone later this evening.

[sangres]

Agree re the Tim lynch.

[Sixty]

Agree re the Tim lynch.

Then make it happen? You are voting on a wagon of one and not making an effort to push it.

I do not believe Shadoweh is scum; her irritation at the blue issue seems genuine, and she was the very first one to mention the "Heart Attack on First Read Red" Town color. Furthermore, scum have safeclaims and there's a sample role PM. Shadoweh is not stupid, and blue is a plausible color for an Innocent Child. Plus, she mentioned Thor + smurf. The whole deal is just ridiculousness upon ridiculousness.

One of this hydra's heads does not really think Messieurs Hortons are scum--from memory, Nexus tends to be lurky and apathetic as scum, so his reaction to us reads as Town who is offended his posts are not being seen as useful.
Regardless, it's a lesser of two evils, and frankly if sangres aren't going to be taking the reins and making something happen we have no good reason to be pushing more righteous wagons.

[chamber]

Unvote Vote: Sixty

[Lost Butterfly]

Prodding xRECKONERx

[Sixty]

Unvote Vote: Sixty

#YOLOOF!

[xRECKONERx]

Sorry about being inactive. Zombie Jesus Weekend ate up all of my time, and I had to deal with some reaaaaaaaal bullshit yesterday.

I'm gonna sheep chamber for now.

VOTE: Sixty

Oh it also helps that they pushed a realbad case on me. Time to check and see if they ever responded to my criticisms!

[xRECKONERx]

@Shadoweh: What is the "FoG" game you're referencing?

So Sixty basically just backed down from me without really saying anything? That's sketch