Newbie 1488: Igloo-Town Tragedy (Game Over)

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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:11 am

Post by dawn_to_dusk »

In post 498, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 497, Jake from State Farm wrote:Oh please enlighten us all with your reasons for your town reads.

I'm curious to hear good reasons...
I only have one town read which is on random which I have already articulated; I have a not scum read on Billi, and a "I'm willing to give a pass for a day because there are two players who actually look like scum to me" to jklash.
In post 499, Jake from State Farm wrote:You only explained that he's a town read cause the kill was from an experienced player. I don't see anywhere else where you give reasons. Link please?
If that's the only reason, that is a terrible reason. Jk might be 'playing dumb' and acting newbie here since no one knows how he plays, and this way, he can avert attention away from himself. For all we know, he might be on a different site winning mafia after mafia and we have no idea of this.

I have a town read on jk for other reasons, but if that's your read on him, it's a terrible read.

P.S. If I got the wrong person, same goes for a few others as well.
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:12 am

Post by dawn_to_dusk »

But never mind about that post, your probably going to think its some random crap anyway
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:18 am

Post by jklash12 »

In post 491, Billi bilaði wrote:
In post 490, jklash12 wrote:Billi, you said it would take some convincing to place your vote outside of Jake or DDD, is there anything else I can do to convince you that random is scum?
If you were a cop with a guilty-result, then you would just say so as the game would be won. So, I don't think you can know that he is a mafioso; only have a strong suspicion.

So, with only suspicions:
Why did random put the 3rd vote on PrivateI on day 2?
- There was no need for a wagon on "the mafia-partner" at that time.
- - Did he then get stuck on a fellow-wagon?
I think he did it to get some town cred and then planned to get off it later when the wagon died but the wagon didn't die. So, like you said, he got stuck on his partner's wagon.
Did PrivateI then revenge-vote his partner (random) after that wagon got rolling?
- and then move away from him to put suspicion on dawn_to_dusk instead?
I think Private got on, saw that random voted him, and voted him back because he was mad that his partner voted him. Just a bit later in Private big list of reads it said random was back to good town read.
Why does random relieve the L-1 pressure of Jake this day (day 3)?
- is it because he is getting heat on him?
No, not because he is getting heat but because it would to get town cred because it looks like he is trying to find scum.
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:18 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

In post 501, dawn_to_dusk wrote:But never mind about that post, your probably going to think its some random crap anyway
Well I mean it's random crap because instead of asking a question that would clarified things for you; you made an assumption and a wrong one and your post is meaningless because of that.

Anyways, I don't know if I'll bother articulating my reason for my town read on random because he's not really under any real pressure and there's no point to making that argument; instead it'll be putting together the comprehensive Jake and DTD reasons to lynch lists and deciding which one is stronger, probably tomorrow morning because I'd rather argue about that.
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:36 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

502 is good posting

But 503 is not

My reasons are perfectly legit. He has gone this long without explaining why he suspects us so him finally explain it with something more than "an experienced player that isn't me must have killed zephyr " will be nice.
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:17 am

Post by Randomnamechange »

Sorry I cant quote because I am on my phone, but this refers to post 502
I voted Private because I thought he was scum. It is not generally my playstyle to bus my scum buddy easily. The fact that I had given a scum read on him when there was no pressure on him would make no sense as a bus. Private is an SE. Woupd he really vote his team mate because he was annoyed at them voting him? I am scumhunting. I took my vote off Jake because im still trying to figure him out.
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:36 am

Post by jklash12 »

Private being an SE means nothing. All it is that he has some experience on this site. It doesn't automatically make him a better player and I had played with Private before this game. I could be wrong but I think Private would be the type of person to vote his teammate if he got annoyed with them.
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:46 pm

Post by Billi bilaði »

In post 496, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 494, Billi bilaði wrote:How about: DDD is currently playing so well, that he can be pulling the wool over my eyes, seeing that I believe he might be the strongest player in the game?
Your slip might be that you contribute as little as possible, imho.
I mean if you want to ignore everything else in favor of "he slightly under contributes" knock yourself out but your either vastly overstating the town credentials of everyone else and/or letting paranoia get the better of you.

DTD or Jake are my options for the day and there are compelling reasons for both; the way Jake writes DTD off as town in his latest post is just for awful reasons.
In one post you want me to follow you blindly, in another you are not such a strong player as you never slip.
Well, you often give vague statements of how this and that must be, and expect us to take that on faith, because you don't give much backup to anything.

Please give a detailed description of the "everything else" I'm ignoring. The voting patterns are there for everybody too look at. I've stated my reasons for seeing some people as not-likely candidates for mafia-membership as the patterns don't match.
But your patterns can match very well. I can absolutely see you play throughout the game as something I might try to pull off as a mafioso.
Maybe you have noted that my paranoia is not so high as getting the better of me since my vote is resting comfortably in my pocket.
Please state full cases for whom you want to lynch, and don't just say that I am paranoid for wanting to look at you as a possibility.
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:35 pm

Post by Jake from State Farm »

idk why I can't do the same kind of re-read at home that I do at scum but I tried to compare billi and private and I got nothing. I don't see anything definitive one way or the other.

the only thing that really sticks out is he is playing kind of cocky and if he's scum he's going to win this game, but if he's town he doesn't really have anything to point to that is like OMG that's pro town

Him town reading anti is kind of weird and his explanation about why the zephyr kill could only come from me really makes no sense.

JK's case on anti is pretty good so not sure if I will be able to come up with anything more that he hasn't already.
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the whole game is dumb and we don't know why we're good at it and nobody knows what is going on and we're all going to have to accept that
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:33 pm

Post by Ser Arthur Dayne »

Vote Count 3.02
  • Jake from State Farm (1) -
    Debonair Danny DiPietro
  • Billi bilaði (1) -
    Jake from State Farm
  • randomidget (1) -
    jklash12
  • Debonair Danny DiPietro (0) -

  • jklash12 (0) -

  • dawn_to_dusk (0) -



  • Not Voting (3) – dawn_to_dusk, randomidget, Billi bilaði
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.


Deadline is 11PM EST March 3
Countdown: (expired on 2014-05-03 23:00:00)
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:16 am

Post by Billi bilaði »

In post 508, Jake from State Farm wrote:...
Him town reading
anti
is kind of weird
and his explanation about why the
zephyr kill could only come from me
really makes no sense.

JK's
case on
anti
is pretty good
so not sure if I will be able to come up with anything more that he hasn't already.
a: Who is
"anti"? Are you meaning randomidget?
b: I believe
you are misunderstanding me here: I believe someone is setting you up as a prime target by killing Zephyrus. It isolates you from the group (which predators like) and makes you stick out. Therefor I DON'T believe that you would have killed him. (But that also means that he was a good kill for you if you are a mafioso, because I'm taking this stance.)
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:20 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

lol fuck I mixed games, anti is in another game. yes I meant random


at lunch I will try and focus on this game. where is my adderall when i need it
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:28 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

DTD


Alright, let’s start with his first post; votes for PrivateI. People tend to vote the familiar when possible for a new player the only player they’d have any brief experience with is their scumpartner. This would be more of a critical mass piece of the puzzle rather than something that stands alone for me.

His next six posts or so are pretty empty but then we get him voting for me for voting for PrivateI which at the time meant nothing but with a PrivateI scum flip has become all the more interesting. It’s curious that he never said why he thought me voting PrivateI and him unvoting him was linked but he did think there was a link; while it’s possible it’s just hubris doesn’t it make sense that there is a link and they’re partners and hence the reaction.

Then we get the second part of this probing post which reads to me now like he’s checking on whether he has to be worried for his partner more than anything.

Over the next hundred pages he says nothing of real value, just some gameplay technique stuff other than briefly trying to direct attention to Zephyr who we know is town. He votes for Billi without any reasons just sheeping other people but as soon as it might get him caught on a hypothetical mislynch he jumps off, probably because he realizes how bad it’d look in retrospect.

And then we get the PrivateI vote that has Jake and others writing him off as scum but looking at the vote count doesn’t that seem like the perfect time to vote for your scum partner? Two big competing wagons that he likely thought would make sure the lynch happened between one of them; he gets to look like he’s doing something instead of just sheeping the biggest wagons and if PrivateI does eventually get lynched then he looks great.

The bottom of this post is amusing but it could be legitimate with the second half talked on to cover and even redirect. In post 399 we get what looks to be like his first real analysis of the game state in any depth. And you know the theory that Billi suggested (and I didn't care for) that scum NKed Zephyr to make Jake stand out? DTD falls right in line with that suggestion pushing Jake for just that reason so maybe there is something to it.
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:44 am

Post by Billi bilaði »

Thank you, DDD. This is very good.
Here are my notes on dawn_to_dusk:
- "? Prodded pg.4. Misread rules. Post95 strange. innocent doesn't like his vote P.102. doesn't give a read! First to unvote me.
First to vote Private for lynch.
"

As you say, the only "redeaming" issue I have is him being the first to vote PrivateI.
I need to ISO him again and review with your notes in mind.
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:45 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Jake


Fused shadows didn’t do or say anything interesting. Jake joins the game voting for PrivateI but by his own admission it was “only” a reaction test but he could’ve just been covering his bases making sure he was on the lynch if it happened but he pretty much guaranteed that it wouldn’t when he quickly flipped off the wagon. In retrospect he called his vote a reaction test but then the only thing he said about his test was that it was “weird” that no one reacted to it. Surely that weirdness would lead to some conclusion but the only thing it appeared to do was OMGUS at Billi.

He votes in 176 for just awful reasons going back to things that were irrelevant instead of decent reasons to lynch IV. Then we get an irrelevant discussion of reasons versus cases and then he just strands his vote for what feels forever on Billi for “slipping”, this has long been one of my biggest red flags where scum just lock into a single person for an easy to see reason and push it for all it’s worth because they are technically right and can’t be argued with on those grounds and few people are lynched for being “too stubborn”.
In post 358, Jake from State Farm wrote:Well I'm sticking with confirmed scum. When private flips town I'll be looking at who started the counter wagon
Just wanted to quote this for both hilarity and posterity.

And earlier today he was on the lynch Billi wagon of nonsense basically ignoring the wagon yesterday and the need to re-evaluate things in light of a PrivateI scum flip.

~~

UNVOTE: Jake
VOTE: DTD

I think I’m personally more aggravated by Jake because he doesn’t shut up and he’s so frequently wrong but those are actually townish attributes while DTD’s relative silence and dearth of contributions are more on the scum side of the ledger.
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:30 am

Post by Randomnamechange »

DTD is the only player deeply in my lynch pool (I did vote him earlier I'm not just sheeping).
We are approaching the deadline and so
LYNCH DTD
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:00 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

In post 514, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:he called his vote a reaction test but then the only thing he said about his test was that it was “weird” that no one reacted to it. Surely that weirdness would lead to some conclusion but the only thing it appeared to do was OMGUS at Billi.
1. billi wasn't voting me so it wasn't omgus
2. billi hopped on the wagon for no reasoning which is a scummy thing to do so I decided to pressure him for it. Opportunistic voting = bad
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:05 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

and I had a huge post about dtd and I went to hit the backspace key to deleted something and instead I hit the f12 and this weird screen popped up that I couldn't get rid of and it ate my post :(

In a nut shell it was something along the lines of

Day 1 his play was quite good but his hammer took his town cred away
day 2 his play wasn't as good, wasting time questioning a town read and other useless stuff
day 3 giving jk a pass just cause he was the hammer vote, despite scum hammering scum buddies all the time. Also saying my reason for why I thought JK was town is bad but his reason for giving jk a pass is horrible, not to mention he is hanging on to a mysterious town read on random. Makes me think he's trying to keep random on his side.

Not to mention saying the NK of Zephyr can only come from somebody experienced which really isn't true

If random is town when I do my re-read I would be willing to vote DDD. I don't really like the dtd wagon
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the whole game is dumb and we don't know why we're good at it and nobody knows what is going on and we're all going to have to accept that
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:10 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

In post 515, Randomnamechange wrote:DTD is the only player deeply in my lynch pool (I did vote him earlier I'm not just sheeping).
We are approaching the deadline and so
LYNCH DTD
if you were already voting him before with reasons not sure why you felt to explain your actions

also we aren't that close to deadline. 4+ days if I am not mistaken. I'd like to get through my iso of you please
Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.

the whole game is dumb and we don't know why we're good at it and nobody knows what is going on and we're all going to have to accept that
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:29 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

In post 517, Jake from State Farm wrote:and I had a huge post about dtd and I went to hit the backspace key to deleted something and instead I hit the f12 and this weird screen popped up that I couldn't get rid of and it ate my post
Pretty sure you mean me.
Jake from State Farm wrote: Day 1 his play was quite good but his hammer took his town cred away
day 2 his play wasn't as good, wasting time questioning a town read and other useless stuff
day 3 giving jk a pass just cause he was the hammer vote, despite scum hammering scum buddies all the time. Also saying my reason for why I thought JK was town is bad but his reason for giving jk a pass is horrible, not to mention he is hanging on to a mysterious town read on random. Makes me think he's trying to keep random on his side.
Day 1) Lynched an under contributing SE like I said I would; not my preferred one but as usual the policy is far more successful than it fails.
Day 2) Helped get my day one preferred lynch, they flip scum; try to get under contributing members of the town to contribute.
Day 3) You claim to think jk is town so why are you even remotely encouraging me to go after him? Furthermore, I never commented on your jk read; I said your DTD read is awful and it is. Why wouldn't I try to keep random on my side? If he listens to me I'm more likely to get the lynch I want and I know this still seems crazy to you people but I generally think I'm going to be right. That being said the reason I have random as a town read is because I have him as a town read, anything else is just an added bonus.
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:24 am

Post by dawn_to_dusk »

:/ DDD's post is hard to counter...

1st, I'll post about me supposedly lynching my scum partner.
Out of the mafia forums, I have played 6 or 7 mafia games. My 1st game, I was scum and was went up against a much better player than me (who was also scum) and won. I lynched a fellow scum (the scum had a concealing role so he wasn't revealed as scum). I was then NK'd by the rogue.

The point of the story is, this was my 1st mafia game and lynching mafia got me killed. That scared me out of lynching scum partners. Period.

I'll do more later, but for now, I must leave.
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:06 pm

Post by Billi bilaði »

In post 516, Jake from State Farm wrote:...
2. billi hopped on the wagon for no reasoning which is a scummy thing to do so I decided to pressure him for it. Opportunistic voting = bad
2. Of course you can't reasonably know, but I do that all the time, regardless of alignment.
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:29 pm

Post by jklash12 »

In post 470, Randomnamechange wrote:UNVOTE: Jake
I don't think he is scum. I really don't know with Jake.
VOTE: dtd
The guy whose I distrust the most.
In post 485, Randomnamechange wrote:
Unvote dtd

I just realized that the point made was by Private, and Private was scum. :/ sorry about that.
I trust dtd after that. It's hard to explain, but I think he reacted in a townie way.
In post 515, Randomnamechange wrote:DTD is the only player deeply in my lynch pool (I did vote him earlier I'm not just sheeping).
We are approaching the deadline and so
LYNCH DTD
Come on guys! are you seeing this? If this isn't scum then I don't know what is. He voted dtd saying he distrusted dtd. Then unvoted saying he trusted him and he was townie and then the last one he is back in his lynch pool and he doesn't even have his vote on him. These are 3 of random's last 4 posts.
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:22 pm

Post by dawn_to_dusk »

In post 522, jklash12 wrote:
In post 470, Randomnamechange wrote:UNVOTE: Jake
I don't think he is scum. I really don't know with Jake.
VOTE: dtd
The guy whose I distrust the most.
In post 485, Randomnamechange wrote:
Unvote dtd

I just realized that the point made was by Private, and Private was scum. :/ sorry about that.
I trust dtd after that. It's hard to explain, but I think he reacted in a townie way.
In post 515, Randomnamechange wrote:DTD is the only player deeply in my lynch pool (I did vote him earlier I'm not just sheeping).
We are approaching the deadline and so
LYNCH DTD
Come on guys! are you seeing this? If this isn't scum then I don't know what is. He voted dtd saying he distrusted dtd. Then unvoted saying he trusted him and he was townie and then the last one he is back in his lynch pool and he doesn't even have his vote on him. These are 3 of random's last 4 posts.
I saw it, it's opportunistic as hell and he's contradicting himself a lot. He has been acting scum a lot recently.

Firstly, he gives a weak scum read on private but doesn't vote him. When I vote private due to random's analysis, random can't do anything other than go with his own analysis and vote him. Why didn't he just vote private in the 1st place?

Then he follows private's reads. If it works? Great for scum. If it doesn't? Call a misread. And then there is his most recent post. He's wanting to start a wagon on me and claiming we don't have much time despite he fact we have 4 days left.

I'm going random. When I flip town, vote him too.
VOTE: random
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:32 pm

Post by dawn_to_dusk »

@DDD- why the hell would I NK zephyr? To me, he was fairly inactive and it would have been better to lynch a confirmed civvy. I don't even understand why it's smart play and I REALLY don't understand why you are suspecting me of NK'ing him and putting me in the same pool as jake. As I said in one of your quotes, I am inexperienced. So why would I make a smart NK?

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