Newbie 1497 (Game Over)

[Knell]

Could be YOLO scum, but doubt it.

[Thor665]

Would he be capable of making all of this up though as scum?

You said a lot of other things, but this is really the core of your comment.

For me...I dunno. He was able to manage spastic in that other game we were in together. And, I'll admit, half of his posts I read them and I'm like 'there is good town energy here' but then he rolls off on this tangents that I feel are like... well, they feel like set pieces. Like a thing he's showing me for 'look at how much I'm considering/paranoid!' and then he just brushes it away. I just find myself wondering the timeline and his thought process during those moments and it ends up feeling forced to me. I don't like the vibe.

[theelkspeaks]

Hi everyone! I just replaced in for Tynn, I'll be catching up.

[Knell]

I'm examining the person and not so much his alignment at this point. I think he's forcing himself for personal reasons perhaps stemming from that offensiveness and people's response to it. If he explained himself to that detail, I could see myself putting him into my obvious town pool (which has no occupants as of yet).

@Hello, Theelk. Can you ask for a dead line extension from the mod?

[Aquanim]

While I do want to see BBT lynched at the end of the day, I agree that there's no immediate rush to hammer. We still have some things to sort out today.

One of the things we should sort out? That's an alternate lynch if BBT claims something that makes people not want to lynch him - and then you want time for that lynch to be able to claim also, right? How much time do you think that would take? In a perfect world we would have had the first claim a few days ago.

Yeah, sure, those things. (All of which should come before somebody actually hammers.)

With regard to Tr1ckster, in the absense of anyone digging out something incredibly scummy from his ISO I think any bad feelings about him can wait till another day. At worst, he's likely to contribute a lot tomorrow which will make it easier to read him.

Hiya Theelkspeaks. (Is there a common abbreviation for that?)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah bollocks, I haven't even got a good claim to keep me alive.

Just a lil Vanilla Townie

As I stated earlier, I had problems getting into the game so I really haven't had a chance to develop my reads or begin reads on the newer players

Aquanim - I am still leaning scum on Aquanim. For all the reasons previously stated. Regarding the point about me not making a stand with my read on you as scum, I tried to hold my ground against Thor and I dug myself into a hole, I couldn't answer his questions very well and I became very narrow minded. I was simply replying to his questions and not actually playing the game myself. Got sidetracked pretty badly and never recovered. So, when the pressure started building up on me, I didn't want to do the exact same thing again only with you this time, so I took some time away from the thread and then when I came back I ISO'd the person who bugged me most, besides yourself; Madonna. You're clearly quite intelligent and your posts are constructed well so I think it would be very difficult to read you as scum if you were, but you're also clearly valuable to town if you're not scum.

Belisarius - Leaning town. Provided a reads list pretty early on and attempts to go after somebody who nobody has really paid any attention to (Tynn).

Knell - Null/leaning town on Knell so far. Again, goes after Tynn who had pretty much been ignored to that point in the game, shows he doesn't just jump on any old wagon (even though he voted me later on!) but tries to form his own opinions and create his own discussions. I also liked the interactions with Tr1ckster, seems confident in his ability to draw reads out of people. This obviously doesn't mean he is town, but that's the vibe I get from him.

Madonna - Still hasn't answered the questions I asked, although if he expects me to be lynched, why would he. I don't like Madonna's play so far, probably my strongest scum-read up to this point. Very self-aware, cautious and always thinking about how people view him. I would imagine he probably pays a lot of attention to how he constructs his posts which may make him difficult to read later in the game. Has tunneled on one person throughout the game and goes missing for a good amount of time at various intervals before coming back, posting a huge wall of text, claiming exhaustion and disappearing again. Got a vote, gonna use it before my death. VOTE: Madonna

NM - My strongest town-read. Defending me against the majority was pretty impressive and putting himself in the cross hairs, don't feel like I need to say anymore on this.

Thor - Leaning town for Thor for all reasons previously stated. See no reason to change my read here. Very pro-town, always asking questions, probing for information, applying pressure. I like it.

Tr1ckster - Null/leaning town. I find Tr1ckster quite difficult to read. Have struggled with him from the beginning and haven't really had the chance to put in any effort into gaining a good read on him. His posts usually have a lot of questions but most of them seem to lack direction or a main point. Just aimless questions being thrown around. Very happy to vote and unvote, but it comes across that he always has Madonna in the back of his mind all the time. Given Madonna is my strongest scum-read, I don't think this is scum on scum. So, Madonna is scum, and Tr1ckster is town.

theelkspeaks - Obvious scum, lynch him now!!

Again, I apologize for a really bad D1, allowed myself to get sidetracked and essentially took myself out of the game.

Good luck guys!

[Aquanim]

@BlueBloodedToffee

: With regard to your Belisarius read - I personally don't think his list-post of reads was well thought out, do you agree? If so, do you think it's a particularly townie indication despite that?

I also think that going after a lurker nobody feels particularly strongly about (aka Tynn) is a very safe play for a scum to make that doesn't commit him to much. Your thoughts?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BlueBloodedToffee

: With regard to your Belisarius read - I personally don't think his list-post of reads was well thought out, do you agree? If so, do you think it's a particularly townie indication despite that?

I also think that going after a lurker nobody feels particularly strongly about (aka Tynn) is a very safe play for a scum to make that doesn't commit him to much. Your thoughts?

I'm not sure what you mean? His reads-list seems OK to me, but I really haven't played a lot of this game so it may be that there are glaring things that I am missing. He has clearly ISO'd everyone and made notes on particular posts. What makes you think it wasn't well thought out?

I do think that providing a reads list so early upon his entry into the game is probably an indication that he is town yeah. Especially when he goes against the majority saying that he won't vote me. I just think I would have been an easy wagon for scum to jump on (although it may be

too

easy, hence Madonna's hesitation, so I guess it's possible scum may not jump on so quickly)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

EBWOP

- Forgot second point.

I do agree that Tynn would actually be an easy target for scum, that makes sense. However, I'm not sure it would have been an easy wagon to start up with the amount of activity elsewhere in the thread.

[Aquanim]

@Belisarius

:

In your Madonna read:

I am not, conversely, liking his push on Tr1ckster. Tricks is pretty transparent, and if he is scum, it'll become apparent soon enough, whereas if he's town, well, his towngame's getting better. Tricks is a damned low priority lynch for me.

into

VOTE: Tr1ckster

um... what?

Assuming you just didn't think about Madonna again after your Tr1ckster read, does your new read on Tr1ckster change your read on Madonna?

Besides that, Belisarius' read on Trickster (which is where he decided his vote should go) boils down to "Trickster says 'interesting' and 'takes notes' a lot, and says he'd prefer to have reads on everyone in day 1". None of which is scummy in the least as far as I'm concerned.

This may just be a difference in style, but Belisarius is kind of picking out individual posts and commenting on them rather than analysing players' contributions to the thread as a whole. I think the former is far, far, far easier for scum to do than the latter.

[Aquanim]

EBWOP

- Forgot second point.

I do agree that Tynn would actually be an easy target for scum, that makes sense. However, I'm not sure it would have been an easy wagon to start up with the amount of activity elsewhere in the thread.

That's exactly it though: a scum-Belisarius is quite content with parking his vote on Tynn, having the Tynn wagon go nowhere, and being out of the spotlight. Driving a mislynch wagon onesself is less important to scum than making sure they don't get caught themselves.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Belisarius

:

In your Madonna read:

I am not, conversely, liking his push on Tr1ckster. Tricks is pretty transparent, and if he is scum, it'll become apparent soon enough, whereas if he's town, well, his towngame's getting better. Tricks is a damned low priority lynch for me.

into

VOTE: Tr1ckster

um... what?

Assuming you just didn't think about Madonna again after your Tr1ckster read, does your new read on Tr1ckster change your read on Madonna?

Besides that, Belisarius' read on Trickster (which is where he decided his vote should go) boils down to "Trickster says 'interesting' and 'takes notes' a lot, and says he'd prefer to have reads on everyone in day 1". None of which is scummy in the least as far as I'm concerned.

This may just be a difference in style, but Belisarius is kind of picking out individual posts and commenting on them rather than analysing players' contributions to the thread as a whole. I think the former is far, far, far easier for scum to do than the latter.

Ah, I was looking for that after your comment but I must have somehow missed it and I then assumed it was Knell who must have wrote it. I remember reading that and it did strike me as kind of odd. Tr1ckster is low priority lynch and he then goes and votes him. I agree, that part of his read doesn't make much sense at all. I also agree that the 'scum-tells' from Tr1ckster are not scum tells at all imo.

I also think it might actually just boil down to a difference in playstyle, not everybody does their reads/analysis in the same ways.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

EBWOP

- Forgot second point.

I do agree that Tynn would actually be an easy target for scum, that makes sense. However, I'm not sure it would have been an easy wagon to start up with the amount of activity elsewhere in the thread.

That's exactly it though: a scum-Belisarius is quite content with parking his vote on Tynn, having the Tynn wagon go nowhere, and being out of the spotlight. Driving a mislynch wagon onesself is less important to scum than making sure they don't get caught themselves.

OK, I see where you're going with it now. Yeah, I kinda agree. I don't usually expect scum to start wagons though, I expect scum to try and justify reasons and jump onto a wagon that looks like it's about to take off. But I can see your point, that would be a good play for scum to make.

[Aquanim]

Given how much he's been lurking while his professed townread BBT is headed for the lynch... can anyone tell me a good reason they think Belisarius is town?

Until then,
UNVOTE:

[Madonna]

mafiascum_140429a

ISO is super useful and I bothered to learn the term because it has been used so often of late. This will be a major help and tre snazzy.

You read both me and NM as scum, albeit NM is a weak-scum read. What interference do you think NM is doing? What do you think he is trying to achieve with this interference?

With said reads, can you explain the difference between Hemp's earlier posting to divert attention from NM, and NM's current posting defending me. I mean, in your own words, if we're both scum then NM could potentially 'bone himself' trying to defend me against the majority, right?

In relation to your read on me from your list, I asked you a question earlier, I don't think you answered it?

In addition, do you not think I would act the same way to Thor's questioning no matter my alignment? If not, how would you expect my reaction to change depending on what alignment I was?

Not_Mafia's ran a lot of interference on your behalf, BlueBloodedToffee, in calling out Thor665 and his vote on you (and call to lynch), so I am surprised you have not noticed his obvious defense. You can see examples of this at post 231 and post 287, and that was steady throughout Thor665's case against you. I was thinking his aim was to help muddy the waters, while keeping himself out of the way, since while he was arguing with Thor665, Not_Mafia kept his vote on HempHHH, because while he could undermine Thor665's arguments, Not_Mafia was not going to face off against Thor665.

And reading in this ISO way, I am actually surprised how little a scumread I am feeling for Not_Mafia, and think he did good work to step in on BlueBloodedToffee's behalf. While Thor665 was clearly in the right in regards to the argument's topic, Not_Mafia gave perspective to explain BlueBloodedToffee's situation, so that it is understandable why BlueBloodedToffee acted as he did, versus the stance that anyone who loses an argument is wrong therefore lynch-worthy.

The difference is that HempHHH's behavior and lack of contribution resulted in him phenomenally garnering all ire and distrust. He basically held out a hand and demanded to have the votes, all of them. Not_Mafia is playing the game; tackling arguments, giving posts a proper read-through, and not moving on full caps when asked the same questions repeatedly.

Since I do not know your alignment, you, or your meta, I cannot tell you what I would expect from someone I do not know, BlueBloodedToffee. I know that you responded poorly, which is not generally a good sign, and that was enough for a beginning scumread.

I promised to be your L-1, BlueBloodedToffee, and I fulfilled that.

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

NM - My strongest town-read. Defending me against the majority was pretty impressive and putting himself in the cross hairs, don't feel like I need to say anymore on this.

Not_Mafia's ran a lot of interference on your behalf, BlueBloodedToffee, in calling out Thor665 and his vote on you (and call to lynch), so I am surprised you have not noticed his obvious defense.

Are you sure I didn't notice NM's defence of me? I was asking what you meant by interference and what you thought his intentions were. It's quite obvious that he was defending me.

6) Not_Mafia: Weak scum. Did himself no favors in the beginning, and changed his tune as soon as he got into hot water. Has been making some helpful posts, but it also feels like he is running interference than doing his own work.

mafiascum_140429a

ISO is super useful and I bothered to learn the term because it has been used so often of late. This will be a major help and tre snazzy.

Not_Mafia's ran a lot of interference on your behalf, BlueBloodedToffee, in calling out Thor665 and his vote on you (and call to lynch), so I am surprised you have not noticed his obvious defense. You can see examples of this at post 231 and post 287, and that was steady throughout Thor665's case against you. I was thinking his aim was to help muddy the waters, while keeping himself out of the way, since while he was arguing with Thor665, Not_Mafia kept his vote on HempHHH, because while he could undermine Thor665's arguments, Not_Mafia was not going to face off against Thor665.

And reading in this ISO way, I am actually surprised how little a scumread I am feeling for Not_Mafia, and think he did good work to step in on BlueBloodedToffee's behalf. While Thor665 was clearly in the right in regards to the argument's topic, Not_Mafia gave perspective to explain BlueBloodedToffee's situation, so that it is understandable why BlueBloodedToffee acted as he did, versus the stance that anyone who loses an argument is wrong therefore lynch-worthy.

Are you retracting your original read now? You appeared to dislike NM's interference in your reads list, but now you're saying it was good work and you're struggling to scum-read him. I think other than NM's early play, he has quite obviously shown he is town. I would like to know what changed your mind on these things? Why have you changed your mind on his interference and why has he gone from weak-scum to struggling to scum-read him?

[Tr1ckster]

@Aquanim

I read 517 and it's surrounding posts as claims that you were almost certain BBT was scum.
Was I incorrect in reading them that way? If not, what made you think Beli was scummy enough to unvote BBT? Or has your read on BBT changed?

@Madonna

Do you have a scumread at the moment? What made you unvote BBT? Do you consider him town now?

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.13

Madonna (3):

Tr1ckster, Not_Mafia, BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

Thor665, Knell

Tr1ckster (2):

theelkspeaks, Belisarius

No Vote (2):

Aquanim, Madonna

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Thursday, May 1, at 9:00 AM CDT, which is in (expired on 2014-05-01 09:00:00).

[Tr1ckster]

@Thor

I wrote you a post about why I think Madonna's scum yesterday and responded to your concerns. Would you explain, if you disagree, what exactly from it you disagree with, and if you agree, what is holding you back from a Madonna vote?

[Madonna]

Gin and Tonic obv

@ Thor - I can see him going back on himself when he's been backed in to a corner by the IC in something that stemmed from a misrepresentation. Don't get me wrong, I may or may not end up scumreading him, but if I do end up doing so, I want it to be from what I view as genuine pressure, not shite that snowballed to he point that everyone has lost sight of what even happened in the first place

I do see a difference in your votes though, I agree that the cases on me and Hemp are largely for the same reasons (shitposting, non-contribution etc..) however I don't find the way you hopped on the respective wagons the same and that's the distinction that I see BBT as drawing.

And I have explained my behaviour, whereas at the time of BBT's vote Hemp hadn't and arguably still really hasn't, so I don't agree.

I haven't really gotten an impression that he's trying to look town, if there's any particularly egregious cases of this in his ISO please do highlight them cos I can come round on it. What I don't like moreso is his OMGUSy read on you

.I want to ask BBT a couple of questions.

What do you think of my comments on you vs. Thor?
Nicely and concisely, why are you scumreading Aquanim?

I do not like the options of runners for the lynch right now. I think Belisarius and theelkspeaks could stand more looking into at this point, as they are going into D2 with clean slates, as their previous owners kept to themselves too well. With me at L-2, I wonder how much less fun this is going to get to say hi to a friend.

VOTE: Belisarius

Salutations, Belisarius! If I had to lynch either you or theelkspeaks today based on your arguments for voting Tr1ckster, whose arguments would keep them their head?

[Madonna]

Hmm, quotes from while I was looking at Not_Mafia and deciding not to post a wall of text. I hate you, phpBB, and your strange memory.

[Tr1ckster]

@Knell

BBT just posted and two people unvoted him seemingly because of it. Did BBT's post change your view of him? If not, what do think of the people who did unvote? Did your read on them change? If so, what do you think of him now? What would be holding you back from a Madonna lynch?

[Tr1ckster]

I don't think I'm willing to vote Beli just yet. I'm not ready to lynch someone on the policy of inactivity.

No, I don't think I see a reason for him to be town, but I don't see a reason for him to be scum, either.

[Tr1ckster]

@Madonna

Who's your ideal lynch after Beli?

[Tr1ckster]

@Elk (can I call you elk?)

Will you catch up and ask for an extension from the mod and then inform us of your thoughts?

How do you feel about your partner's previous play?