NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3668
- Joined: November 14, 2005
- Location: Somerville, MA
I was actually just about to post that I am significantly more suspicious of pj with that response. He seems overly concerned with keeping pressure on me rather than trying to understand my point of view.
Incidentally, this post makes me think StD is town. This is basically exactly how I feel about the MafiaSSK wagon.In post 222, Save The Dragons wrote:One of the broad generalizations I remember from my time here is that on day 1 people often lynched a pro-town player because people were arguing against the theory of what they said. Intent > content.
I'm going to go one step further from a previous statement and say there is very little that MafiaSSK has posted that I agree with.Swimming past the bullshitthat is just a gross metaphor. Let me try again.Putting aside all the fanfare, I suspect that MafiaSSK's actions are efforts to find scum.
But it's just so weird! MafiaSSK basically says we should all vote for Glork to gain information and then votes for Tigris for starting a different bandwagon, thus starting a different bandwagon.
If MafiaSSK turns out to be scum, it also kind of ruins my theory that scum decided to parrot PJ (or is PJ) and jump on the wagon.-
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3668
- Joined: November 14, 2005
- Location: Somerville, MA
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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- Posts: 16394
- Joined: March 28, 2005
- Location: New Jersey
In post 246, undo wrote:
May I recommend you to get some sleep then? Your acumen seems to be impairedYosarian2 wrote:Hey. I'm back. Half asleep, but back.
I'm getting some weird vibes off of Undo's posting so far this game. Kind of wishy-washy. Kisses up to everyone in first post, votes DGB "as homage". ? Says MafiaSSK's post #45 " doesn't look right", but then hedges that read, and doesn't vote. Takes off random vote on DGB without voting anyone else. Then later votes SSK. fos:Undo Posting and voting pattern so far looks overly cautious.
No, but seriously, you've just made a chronological list of some of my actions in this game. What's actually suspicious about them? The fact that I am excited to be playing this game (shame on you for dismissing my sincere first post as fawning!)? The fact that I don't vote when I don't find anything immediately voteworthy?
Not everyone plays the same way. I for one don't follow my gut. I don't go voting or fosing people without having minimally solid arguments to do it. If you take one action that I find dubious but not necessarily scummy, I'll take note of it for myself. If you keep on acting dubiously, I will have reasons to find you scummy and evidence to justify my read.
I've been asking questions to several players (some of which remain unresponded) to collect material, so to speak -- but until I form anything valid and concrete from that material, I keep my votes to myself.
In general, your play thus far looked overly cautious for day 1, like you were trying extra hard to stay on good terms with everyone. If there's any point at all to random voting, it's to try to create pressure or get something moving early in the game, but you placed your random vote in such a way as to make sure it didn't create any pressure, and the you dropped it without explaining why and without voting anyone else, at a time when no one else was voting DGB. You seemed to imply that you thought SSK was suspicious, but would rather vote for nobody then vote for him; you then voted for him eventually, but you seemed hesitant to do so, and joined the wagon fairly late. (In fact, i would say that SSK actually looked less scummy when you voted him then he did when you declined to do so). Your first comment about SSK seemed kind of wishy-washy, trying to both say you understood why he looked suspicious while negating that in the same sentence.
In my experience, scum tend to be more cautious then town; they hesitate about voting, they try to avoid making any "enemies", they are more inclined to be wishy-washy and to try to have it both ways then to make a strong stand on anything, all because their main goal is to never get lynched; and that's been my impression of your play so far.
I think VitR is somewhat suspicious. If we lynch him he does flip scum, then that would make LML look more town-ish to me. I'm not sure it would say much about Jelly or about Seol.I see what you mean. So considering you think VitR is scum, are you townreading LML, PJ, and Seol?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Shanba So win
- So win
- So win
- Posts: 4072
- Joined: January 3, 2007
- Location: Up a Tree
All my friends on the Seolwagon are leaving me for the LMLwagon and I don't even really know what the LMLwagon is for!
Then again, I was never really sure why most of the people on the Seolwagon were on the Seolwagon anyway.
Since it was such a weak wagon and Seol didn't come in snarling and ripping people aside, he must be scum with a guilty conscience, right? (Note: notentirelyserious here.)(10:50:24 PM) xcaykex: GODDAMNIT I DONT WANNA GET RID OF MY TENTACLE RAPE PORN
Ribbit.-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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- Posts: 16394
- Joined: March 28, 2005
- Location: New Jersey
In post 210, Glork wrote:Incidentally, I am SUPER DUPER AMUSED that people are crying foul at MafiaSSK's "big wagons good" theory, whenat the time he referred to my wagon as "almighty" he jumped AWAY from it, thereby creating a greater spread of votes.
Like, this wagon is legit based on nothing SSK did to actually hurt the game, and just on his theory crafting.
Getting townie vibes from Glork here. His posting about the SSK wagon just feels honest to me.
People who are likely town-
Chamber
Glork
GreenCrayons
DGB and Albert also feel like they're playing within their normal day 1 pro-town meta, leaning town on both of them.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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undo Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: March 27, 2007
Eh, I am not sure you have understood my posts then, because you're distorting their significance.Yosarian2 wrote:In general, your play thus far looked overly cautious for day 1, like you were trying extra hard to stay on good terms with everyone. If there's any point at all to random voting, it's to try to create pressure or get something moving early in the game, but you placed your random vote in such a way as to make sure it didn't create any pressure, and the you dropped it without explaining why and without voting anyone else, at a time when no one else was voting DGB. You seemed to imply that you thought SSK was suspicious, but would rather vote for nobody then vote for him; you then voted for him eventually, but you seemed hesitant to do so, and joined the wagon fairly late. (In fact, i would say that SSK actually looked less scummy when you voted him then he did when you declined to do so). Your first comment about SSK seemed kind of wishy-washy, trying to both say you understood why he looked suspicious while negating that in the same sentence.
The point of random voting is subject of much debate, as we have already observed in this game. I don't care much for RV, so I saw it as a compliment opportunity. I eventually dropped it because it was no longer valid (it was a RV, remember) -- and I thought that was pretty clear.Yosarian2 wrote:If there's any point at all to random voting, it's to try to create pressure or get something moving early in the game, but you placed your random vote in such a way as to make sure it didn't create any pressure, and the you dropped it without explaining why and without voting anyone else, at a time when no one else was voting DGB
You are referring to my post 115, where IYosarian2 wrote:You seemed to imply that you thought SSK was suspicious, but would rather vote for nobody then vote for himneverimplied I thought SSK was suspicious. When I said "it didn't look right to me", I was saying I didn't agree with his theory -- his theory didn't look right to me -- but that defending one controversial theory about RVS was not enough for me to find him scummy.
I voted for him because between one post and another, he kept on coming out with some hardly defensable conjectures (I'm mainly referring to his posts 156 and 173). When he said he thought CES's post 137 (and I invite you to read it again) was scumYosarian2 wrote:you then voted for him eventually, but you seemed hesitant to do so, and joined the wagon fairly late. (In fact, i would say that SSK actually looked less scummy when you voted him then he did when you declined to do so)discreetlyshowing agreement with a scum partner, he really just seemed desperate to come up with any connection, any valid suspicion that could shake off the heat he had on him.
I can't really understand how you (or any others who agree with you) can think MafiaSSK looked more scummy before those posts. In my opinion, his first posts were too isolated to indicate scumminess. But when he just kept on acting dubiously, he started to be readable in a whole other light.
As I've told you, I vote when I have reasons to do it. I've got my eyes on some players more than others, but for the moment, MafiaSSK is the one player who gave me more justifiable reasons to be suspicious of -- that's why my vote is currently on him. It's as simple as that.-
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MrBuddyLee Slightly better than 50-50
- Slightly better than 50-50
- Slightly better than 50-50
- Posts: 5219
- Joined: March 2, 2006
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Green Crayons Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7612
- Joined: September 21, 2002
- Location: Richmond, VA
I don't really care for PJ's Post 244, but I can't put my finger on why. It doesn't make me want to vote him, though. It strikes me as off, but not necessarily because of scumminess. For example, maybe I'm just not used to PJ's play style -- Ithinkwe played mafiachat games together before, but that was long ago and I don't really know how well that translates relative to forum games.
I recognize that this is pretty wishy-washy stuff, but I'm just noting it now for future reference, so I can come back to it if I can eventually identify what's bothering me about it.
Much like:
I can thank Glork for pointing out why seol's post rubbed me the wrong way: "Like, this wagon is legit based on nothing SSK did to actually hurt the game, and just on his theory crafting." seol's Post 162 is a defiant "I'm going to vote MafiaSSK because his bandwagon theory is bad."In post 179, Green Crayons wrote:I wasn't voting VitaminR,I would probably vote seol (I find his Post 162 not sitting well with me), MrBuddyLee (one post all game), and maybe even LoudmouthLee (for reasons I'm letting simmer).
Having a bad bandwagon theory is indicative of having a bad bandwagon theory. I don't see how it's alignment indicative, but seol is flying that flag as if it's golden material."This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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- Posts: 16394
- Joined: March 28, 2005
- Location: New Jersey
Ok. How would you distinguish between "SSK is acting scummy" and "SSK has a very different view on mafia theory and scumhunting tactics then I do" here? I certainly agree that looking for association tells on day 1 between random people seems like a bizzare way to scumhunt, but I'm not really understanding the scum motivation here, or why you think that's more likely to come from scum then town.In post 258, undo wrote:Yosarian2 wrote: I voted for him because between one post and another, he kept on coming out with some hardly defensable conjectures (I'm mainly referring to his posts 156 and 173). When he said he thought CES's post 137 (and I invite you to read it again) was scumdiscreetlyshowing agreement with a scum partner, he really just seemed desperate to come up with any connection, any valid suspicion that could shake off the heat he had on him.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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- Posts: 16394
- Joined: March 28, 2005
- Location: New Jersey
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Natirasha Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9041
- Joined: February 18, 2008
- Location: preening her feathers
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Cogito Ergo Sum YARR!
- YARR!
- YARR!
- Posts: 11085
- Joined: October 29, 2005
- Location: Nottingham
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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- Posts: 16394
- Joined: March 28, 2005
- Location: New Jersey
I know you replaced in late, but that was 2 days ago, and the thread is only 11 page long.In post 263, Natirasha wrote:I'm lurking.
I'm going to give you another 24 hours to read the thread and post something intelligent about it. If you haven't done so by then, I'm going to vote for you.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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DrippingGoofball Mafia Piñata
- Mafia Piñata
- Mafia Piñata
- Posts: 40675
- Joined: December 23, 2005
- Location: Violating mith's restraining order
True, that.In post 248, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Unvote, vote Petroleumjelly
"May switch my vote soon" is scummy.Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet-
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Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Votecount
LoudmouthLee (5) -- DrippingGoofball, VitaminR, Albert B. Rampage, Untrod Tripod, Save the Dragons
Tigris (1) -- MrBuddyLee
MafiaSSK (6) -- Tigris, petroleumjelly, Seol, Porochaz, CrashTextDummie, undo
Seol (6) -- Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber, Glork, Natirasha
VitaminR (2) -- Yosarian2, Green Crayons
Save the Dragons (1) -- LoudmouthLee
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) -- MafiaSSK
Not voting: Nobody
22 alive, 12 to lynch.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
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Sotty7 That Damn Good
- That Damn Good
- That Damn Good
- Posts: 6744
- Joined: October 7, 2005
- Location: Minnesota
LML is probably scum, his early jump on both the early wagons was pretty weak and his movement away hasn't swayed my mind away from this. I'm looking to see what his post weekend posts have to say about the state of the game.In post 240, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Sotty thoughts on LML and petroleumjelly?
PJ on the other hand feels very much like PJ from the mountainous we just finished so I'm not looking to lynch him any time soon but his suspicions are pretty terrible at this point.
I explicitly stated that I agreed with VitR's conclusions. Does that change anything?In post 241, Green Crayons wrote:In contrast, Vitamin slandered the players themselves ("Feels like a bunch of strong players going for an easy target.") To me, this denotes a scum mentality: attacking the players, rather than the rationale for their votes, to get the attention on the who instead of the why. This leads to identity-based suspicion rather than suspicion based on players who pushed bad reasons to lynch people.-
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Porochaz Oh, Prozac
- Oh, Prozac
- Oh, Prozac
- Posts: 9317
- Joined: September 6, 2007
I really hate this post (and the one after). I am not sure a lack of reasoning, especially from chamber is worthy of a vote. Particularly because I don't see a huge reason not to change at that point? 128 and 129 look very superficial, I don't see them as actual reasons for them being scum.In post 128, CrashTextDummie wrote:I agree with PJ's thoughts on MafiaSSK. It's a similar tell to the one I caught UT with in the last Oldy, though it's not as strong here. I also think Yos has decent points against VitR, though I'll withhold judgement on him until I see a response. In addition to those, the one person who stood out to me was chamber:
This to me is the scummiest post of the game so far. It's incredibly severe in its wording for page 2 ("screams scum") and at the same time cushioned by the "reduced confidence". He's preemptively giving himself an out on the grounds that people are hard to read. VitR challenged him on this and he defended his position on two occasions, and yet he dropped her completely to join the Seol bandwagon for reasons unknown (Tigris was at 6, Seol at 3).In post 48, chamber wrote:Yeaaah. I'm going to be less confident this game just because people have old styles, but that screams scum to me.
vote: chamber
In other news, I found Tigris' response to my question to be reasonable and she looks decently town to me. Same goes for PJ and Yos and, to a lesser degree, StD.
Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure ABR is pulling reads out of his ass:
DGB and farside town reads look particularly far-fetched.In post 111, Albert B. Rampage wrote:People I'm willing to lynch:
Petrolumjelly
Glork
LoudMouthLee
People I think are town:
DGB
VitaminR
farside22Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.-
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undo Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: March 27, 2007
So how's Paris, CES? You still haven't responded to my question, by the way.In post 264, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:If you want to be annoying, Nat, can you at least be a bit respectful about it?
More votes for Seol, please.
It's one thing to have different views on scumhunting tactics, it's another to say that a post which explicitly states "I agree with the person who posted right before me" is discreet. There's not much room for different opinions there. As I've said before, it looks like MafiaSSK was desperate to find some kind of association that could divert the negative attention he was getting and at the same time make him look like he was scumhunting and contributing positively. Only he just calls even more negative attention to himself when he does that in such an absurd way (at least in my view).In post 261, Yosarian2 wrote: Ok. How would you distinguish between "SSK is acting scummy" and "SSK has a very different view on mafia theory and scumhunting tactics then I do" here? I certainly agree that looking for association tells on day 1 between random people seems like a bizzare way to scumhunt, but I'm not really understanding the scum motivation here, or why you think that's more likely to come from scum then town.-
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Porochaz Oh, Prozac
- Oh, Prozac
- Oh, Prozac
- Posts: 9317
- Joined: September 6, 2007
This made me laugh, would read again.In post 173, MafiaSSK wrote:And in regards to CES, why should I not take his posts at face value? Or be able to analyze them for what they say? Where is the bright line drawn where I can analyze posts at their own value? 6 posts? 500+ word posts?
Seriously though, not sure what you are doing but your over analysing quite majorly. To an extent where I find it scummy. Im also not sure your last paragraph in 173 and your play so far match.
(Also weasel mafia is a long ago game that I am still "upset" about, thanks to Glork single handedly getting me mislynched - for those that are wondering)Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.-
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Seol Logical Rampage
- Logical Rampage
- Logical Rampage
- Posts: 1563
- Joined: November 26, 2004
- Location: In the wrong
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Porochaz Oh, Prozac
- Oh, Prozac
- Oh, Prozac
- Posts: 9317
- Joined: September 6, 2007
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Porochaz Oh, Prozac
- Oh, Prozac
- Oh, Prozac
- Posts: 9317
- Joined: September 6, 2007
Stop being an asshole.In post 263, Natirasha wrote:I'm lurking.Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
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