Mini 1563 - Vampire: The Masquerade Mafia (Fourth Evening)
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Kagami Jack of All Trades
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Sorry Kagami.
You're still my MVP for this game. You damn near carried the town despite the town's best efforts.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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Kagami Jack of All Trades
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Kagami Jack of All Trades
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Role PMs!
Vampires:
Spoiler: Kagami
Spoiler: MonkeyMan576
Spoiler: d3x
Spoiler: Empking
Spoiler: Aronis
Spoiler: displacedSpoiler: LLD
Spoiler: KatsukiSpoiler: TheGoodfatherSpoiler: SquirrelGirl
Ghouls:
Spoiler: Kthxbye
Spoiler: SpyreX
Spoiler: Vonflare
Up to scum whether they wanted to share the QT.
D3X's ability couldn't be stolen, everything else was fair game.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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Kagami Jack of All Trades
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rambling thoughts~
simplified version of roles- assuming town manages bags and diablerie well
town:
monkey: one-shot tracker
d3x: one-shot dayvig
emp/AA9: one-shot cop
displaced: slightly better than vanilla
LLD/shadoweh: commuter
katsuki: one-shot neighborizer
goodfather/nd: miller, voyeur
SG: miller
Aronis: redirector of sorts.
Suicidal players can be non-suicidal if they get a non-zero diablerie or a blood bag, which saves at most 2 townies per day phase. Blood bag still leaves them at critical next day. Assuming everyone uses an ability night 1, at least one of monkey, d3x, and AA9 dies.
Anti-town:
Me. Only through perfect aim and good luck was I pro-town. In general, my ability posed no major threat to the ghouls, with the exception of blood addicted vonflare. It is too easy for them to recover enough to stay alive, since they'd only lose one per night and gain a decent amount on kill. It is certain death for town aligned players, however. On top of that, even if I hit ghoul every time, I would resist lynching them at all costs because lynching poisoned targets is playing against my win condition.
Scum:
spyrex is essentially a loud roleblocker
kthx and vonflare are goons
Most of the town power is the dayvig, the cop, and oddly enough, the vitae mechanic and the first blood bag.
In a functional town, where quick-grabbing the blood bag without obvious need is a scumclaim and the diab nom is properly organized, the vitae mechanic is mostly going to limit powers to one-shot. On top of that, though, it makes "I'm out of vitae" an extremely high probability town-tell. It was completely obvious that d3x and AA9 were town during day 2, and if AA9 got the bag and d3x got the diab (or the other way around) town got 2 high-prob innos through game mechanics alone. Scum had no way to know that vampires were so limited in their vitae, so it's very unlikely they'd claim similarly.
Scum were also shut out of claiming "no vitae" once two+ town did it, because they would then have a very good chance of not getting any and being obv-scum the next day. Meanwhile, both townies who were out should have survived because of the blood bag that no one knew would come.
The power-stealing abilities of the scum seems pretty low utility. Mine is the only one worth getting that they'd have a possibility of using, and would be somewhat swingy if they nabbed it.
Interestingly, it was confirmed to the two millers either that they're both town or that scum have fake-claims. This came up when ND called himself a catiff instead of a caitiff, but this wasn't noticed. Minor note there, since it's not surprising that scum would have fake-claims anyway.
I think SG's solution to the diablerie is the only viable one. Leaving it to chance means the ghouls likely will get it, and there's not really any situation where nom-claiming the next day is going to narrow things down enough to justify the massive loss to town that would come if they miss a diab. LLD nom day one was absolutely optimal. Night actions night 1 were not.
I'm actually a little disappointed in how the diablerie-ing worked out as a mechanic, which is in large part due to vitae constraints. All the diabs beyond the first (assuming functional town) were pretty much mechanical since there is always someone with no vitae left. I was hoping it would be something that encourages players to be obv-town so they'd get it. Town players being incentivized to appear town is a sign of a good setup, imo.
Modkill was justified, but I think we should have gotten to nom for diab. The loss of diab organizing ability is punishment enough. I think the purpose of the "disadvantage your team as much as possible" clause is to prevent strategic modkills (e.g. trying to get yourself modkilled as town because you're the lead wagon, deadline is approaching, and it doesn't look like the votes will come in time) or other instances where the modkill benefits that player's team. This effectively gave scum an extra kill.-
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Kagami Jack of All Trades
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Shadoweh Idol Hands
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<.<
>.>
Look, it seemed like a good idea at the time, the wine told me so. I should porbbaly just avoid mafia sites after 4am >_>I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir-
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displaced Goon
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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(oh, side note, LLD won - if you have to be replaced from one of my games due to my personal error, you get an automatic win)
Kagami - pretty good breakdown! SpyreX's roleblocker was loud for two reasons: first, because roleblock/redirect is pretty cruel when you are burning your vitae to get things done, and because its major purpose was to stop some sort of breaking strategy.
As you might have guessed, there's a lot of ways to get information in this game, and I wanted there to be outplay opportunities from both scum and town. The scum didn't have fake claims, they had a list of clans and I'd give them a claim if they asked for one based on what clan and power they wanted. Obviously in a heavy flavor game like this I can't leave them out to dry entirely, but I thought that was a good balance between that and "there's no doctors in the game, so feel free to claim it"
(also spelling mistakes might dot my games now and in the future. I'm hardly perfect I wouldn't recommend people read too much into the exact spelling of things)ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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displaced Goon
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Why no backup mod GI?
Also regarding the modkill, I think I agree with Kagami, broadly. I think the modkill was justifiable but the repercussions were not. If it hadn't been for Kagami's power killing Vonflare, the modkill wouldve effectively decided the game on the spot, which I find fairly absurd. (Punishment for a player compromising game actually compromises the game far more decisively)
Given the role PM's I am even more bemused by Aronis' play, I got the distinct impression from his claim etc that his role was compulsive but it turns out not to be? He should be aware enough to know that he wouldnt be a NK target with the focus he was receiving during the day game and that his role even if successful in redirecting a kill is more than likely to have negative impact. Basically this role shouldnt be used unless you are some town god who is an obv NK choice, and even then with some trepidation.-
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d3x Mafia Scum
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Re: The ModKill - I do not disagree with the ruling. I think that once a rule has been put into place, the Mod is as bound by it as the players are to carry out the ramifications. I do have a huge issue with the rule, however. This game is the perfect storm of why. I couldn't come up with a single circumstance where the Scum team was as impacted as the Town team due to a ModKill. In other words, a ModKill can {and did} directly result in multiple Town deaths. The same cannot be said for the Scum team afaict. That means that the rule itself is weighted towards harming the Town. This means it's a bad rule.
Re: Lying Townies - Did the replacements receive their RolePM with additional information or not? If not, then why the hell are townies lying about the contents of their RolePMs?-
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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If I were to revise the rule, I'd change it to "appropriate penalties will be taken to ensure no faction will ever benefit from a modkill" which in this case probably would have meant a diablarie vote. The meta of strategic modkills (which was always shady and looked down on) is long passed.
All replacements had full information.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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displaced
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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d3x Mafia Scum
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I'm not sure what this means. Were they sent the RolePMs along with additional rule clarifications that came up in thread or just the PMs themselves?In post 787, GreyICE wrote:All replacements had full information.-
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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They were sent the full role PM, and any actions their slot had previously taken.
I assumed they'd have read the thread for other rules, etc., which may have been a mistake, since I kind of feel in at least one case that didn't really happen.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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d3x Mafia Scum
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My crusade is refreshed anew. Instead of my previous policy of avoiding games AA9 is signed up for, I'm now going to be actively replacing out of any game she replaces in to.-
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displaced Goon
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Finally got my stupid internet and this site to play nice again.
Well.... that was
I'm not sure what it was this game (aside from RL which made me inactive far more than I like) but it was clear the winning strategy was to watch the town go into some kind of bad oneupsmanship. I get where d3x is coming from, a lot.
And I'll never understand the day before lylo. Kat thought I was town because, really, I had something 100% legit to attack and there wasn't any "scum" that day. Town SpyreX would have played that day identically and if I was in Shadow's shoes, I would have lost it too.-
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displaced Goon
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I mean yeah I probably overegged the redirect thing but apart from that your attacks weren't legitimate?
Given Kats' town flip proved you were talking bull about the double vote how can you hand on heart say you'd have lost too? Shadoweh lost the game because she acted on drunken impulse, not because of anything solid you presented.-
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Kagami Jack of All Trades
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I already knew you were the last scum, so I might be biased, but I thought using your power on shadoweh should have been treated as a scum-claim.
Town-spyrex would have used it as an investigation and targeted displaced, especially since he might be worried about getting NKed himself, only scum-spyrex would use it on shadoweh, which is clearly a move to persuade rather than investigate. Using it on shadoweh makes especially little sense as town, since if she were actually scum, her power would probably be ascetic, not commute.-
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Kagami Jack of All Trades
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displaced Goon
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Squirrel Girl Mafia Scum
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