Mini 1581--The Final Radiant Tales...(Fin)

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Egopost

And also confirm I guess.

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hi guys

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pretty sure it means he's a replacement.

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Getting scum out of fourteen people sounds difficult. D:

When do you plan to get started?

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VOTE: KingdomAces

Sentimental reasons, and testing something.

Want to talk about what you're testing, or wait for the vote count?

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2014:06:27 12:00:00:00

Veeeeery interesting that nati chose to use a hard typed time instead of the countdown tags like in all of the rest of her games. I guess I'll keep an eye on it.

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The answer is "meta".

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Want to talk about what you're testing, or wait for the vote count?

I apparently am a double voter only on particular days, but I have no idea which days.

Apparently not this one.

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It's like you've never played mafia with ffery before.

We vote when we see something we want to lynch.

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Why did you vote Varsoon?

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Heh.

Your new play style looks like it's become comfortable.

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Nope, not rushing into a lynch.



If we grind enough D1, we should become OP enough to avoid a xylo situation.

*serious face*

Is this beli?

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LYNCH SCUM! No, fur realz though. I understand. Typically me but I seem to have improved a lot seeing as how I made it to a couple endgames.

This reaction to KA's posts kinda stands out against the backdrop.

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Would it be accurate to say that you put down an RVS vote in the same post where you commented on non RVS game data?

We're a hydra of fferyllt and Cabd.

mine.

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Is there a reason why you want to keep RVS going?

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Nope, not rushing into a lynch.



If we grind enough D1, we should become OP enough to avoid a xylo situation.

*serious face*

Is this beli?

Yeah!

I'm kind of surprised that question came from you, since you're the only one in this game that's seen me use screenshots from that spoof before.

I'm not sure what to make of that.

I'll call Mr. Z.

I thought so. I don't recall offhand you not voting in your first post in other games, which was why I asked.

me

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Not really. I just didn't have the opportunity to place my RVS vote and I wanted to do it now.

Why?

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It is a serious question. Your vote reason was the sort of thing someone might throw down on page 1.

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Yes you did.

Oh hai. Can we have you skip your emo phase this game please? I don't feel like making the case on why it's alignment neutral for you and it's not helping town, so bottle it.

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It is a serious question. Your vote reason was the sort of thing someone might throw down on page 1.

I couldn't throw it on day 1. That's why I throw it now.

right, and that's what makes your play look odd to me. There ware actual, however tenuous, reasons to vote people based on their play at that point, and had been for a page or two.

Hell, you could have voted us for not RVS voting. You didn't.

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snscompt1 is a person of interest.

gameplay's reaction to my push about his vote gives me minor townvibes.

@Oversoul

, you watch quite a few games you don't play. Have you watched any of KA's recent games?

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@morph
Why is Comti worth watching?Why is Comti worth watching?

My post 82 pointed it up. "One of these things is not like the others", basically.

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snscompt1 is a person of interest.

Aw how sweet, you noticed me.

@morph
Why is Comti worth watching?Why is Comti worth watching?

My post 82 pointed it up. "One of these things is not like the others", basically.

Im sorry for not keeping all my posts worded in the same fashion.

That's nice, but it's not what caught my eye about your post.

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UNVOTE:
UNVOTE:

VOTE: morph the cat
VOTE: morph the cat

sorry, trolling fairy moments I have to get out of the way

I have waited so long to fairy troll

bahahahahaha

The first rule of trolling ffery is to not tell her you're trolling her.

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Vote Count 1.4

ERROR ERROR ERROR

morph the cat(1):

gameplay506

Bert(0):

KingdomAces(4)

: Mirhawk, Bert, Oversoul, ZZZX

MafiaSSK(0):

Bulbazak(0):

Varsoon(1):

Bulbazak

Mirhawk(2):

Bert, Rubicon

Lying Scum(0):

snscompt1(0):

Oversoul(0):

Rubicon(0):

ZZZX(2):

snscompt1, MafiaSSK

gameplay506(0):

No Lynch(0):

Not Voting(4):

morph the cat, Varsoon, Lying Scum , KingdomAces

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch.

(expired on 2014-06-27 12:00:00)

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Called me out on what? I still have no idea what they are referring to.

The other reactions to KA's posts fell into two main categories

- been there done that
- votes

Your reaction to KA was something completely different. It looked like buddying.

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Also what happened with Nati's vote count? What was the big problem with it? Mind somebody explaining because I actually didn't understand what happened.

vote count 1.3 originally showed bert voting two people, which bert took as an indicator that his double vote works today. Nati posted that he'd corrected it, and the double vote was no longer there.

In VC 1.4 it's back.

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Regardless of your alignments, the pattern of the interaction is what it is. The one thing it doesn't particularly look like is scum-to-scum.

If you're town, then it's an odd note of empathy in what so far is a preponderantly snarky ISO.

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I was going to link you to some of his posts in the Dark Age of the Law sign up thread, but the posts I'm thinking about were tiger-chomped. I'll go back through some recent games later today.

At any rate, we consider it alignment neutral, not a town tell.

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Today was the first exam of the finals


I got burned

In other news I am feeling better about aces but I'll keep my vote for a little while.

If you feel better about him, why would you leave your vote there?

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No, this is a laughable place for you to start.

Why are you reading Morph as Cabd? He's made one post so far.

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Also, your narrative about my posting pretty much sucks.

I didn't chasten gameplay for not voting. I asked him why he put down an RVS vote when the game had transitioned out of RVS.

I look forward to hearing what beli makes of that read.

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Because that read surprised the shit out of me. I agree with you about some of your reads. ZZZX as top tier town surprises me, though.

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It's laughable because I think you're scum or ... what? Give some reasoning. Disparaging my reads isn't going to get you very far Ffery.

Which head is posting doesn't change the read.

P-edit: ok.

It should, on a very fundamental level.

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You certainly implied that Cabd not pegging scum already is of concern.

And yes, this is a very townffery early day 1.

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Why is zzzx in your top tier town?

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You certainly implied that Cabd not pegging scum already is of concern.

No. I didn't. Please read my posts and don't just make shit up. I said the initial comments on each were about my experience with the person. Where did I say that you're scum because you didn't lynch scum yet? Like what? Secondly, BoP isn't something I'd use against either of you... In fact, it was more a statement that I was hoping you were town so I could sheep you guys to a win. I feel like there is a lot of animosity in your posts that I just don't remember from elsewhere.

Sorry, no. Misread me this egregiously, write a novel about it compared to most of your other reads, and on the basis of minimal prior exposure to my early game, then don't expect me to be understanding of how you could be this wrong so quickly.

And I strongly suggest you have a hydra convo about your read. I look forward to the results.

And yes, this is a very townffery early day 1.

townFfery asks empty questions without following up and doesn't push anyone for anything or make any solid content posts? I don't think so. And if that's true you need to maybe think about doing something about that because empty posts don't help anyone.

ETL

No, townffery asks questions, makes observations, watches for the reactions to my questions and others', and develops reads. The fact that you don't see the point of my questions may indicate that our approach to the game is just simply that different. Or it could say something about your alignment that Beli's play hasn't shown any indication of so far. But, from my knowledge of your meta, your aggression as town has much more of a point to it than as scum. And the paranoia comes off more genuine. We'll see how this game shapes up.

I don't think we have ever played a game together from the start before, except for maybe a scum-Sangres micro. You've replaced in after there was already a body of work. But I think if you go back and look at some of our earlier games you'll see that my approach is not all that different here from the early days of those games.

P-edit: Because he's not being scummy ZZZX. He seems excited about what he's doing here. He seems involved and looking for real clues.

Ok.

What did you think of the jester stuff?

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You certainly implied that Cabd not pegging scum already is of concern.

No. I didn't. Please read my posts and don't just make shit up. I said the initial comments on each were about my experience with the person. Where did I say that you're scum because you didn't lynch scum yet? Like what? Secondly, BoP isn't something I'd use against either of you... In fact, it was more a statement that I was hoping you were town so I could sheep you guys to a win. I feel like there is a lot of animosity in your posts that I just don't remember from elsewhere.

Sorry, no. Misread me this egregiously, write a novel about it compared to most of your other reads, and on the basis of minimal prior exposure to my early game, then don't expect me to be understanding of how you could be this wrong so quickly.

Why does the amount of words have anything to do with anything? I had more to say. I felt more strongly about it. If you'll notice, Bulbazak has quite the "novel" as well. And you didn't even acknowledge that you were wrong about what you say I did. I never said I was basing my read on your slot on BoP. Furthermore, this is far from a meta read, so this is another thing you are saying that isn't true.

And why do you expect me to be right "this quickly"? What does that even mean? We're 8 pages in, and I'm working through my reads. You think I expect you to be understanding about me thinking you are scum? Why would that even be a concern? I don't even know how to respond to that

And I strongly suggest you have a hydra convo about your read. I look forward to the results.

FFS, it will happen when it happens, and when it does, we'll post updates. I've been on for what... 3 hours so far? I don't understand why you want to limit me to only posting when I've coordinated with Beli, because that's what it feels like. If you're so interested in his read, then be patient and wait for it. Continually telling me that I'm not good enough to read you without talking to Beli is fucking stupid. And mean. And irrelevant.

No, apparently you're not good enough at reading me. Beli and I have hydra'd a couple times. I think he'll be able to set you straight on some stuff.

I expect to learn something about your game approach on the basis of what comes out of that discussion. Possibly some alignment-indicative stuff as well, but I don't expect it to be easy to spot either of you this early if you're scum.

And yes, this is a very townffery early day 1.

townFfery asks empty questions without following up and doesn't push anyone for anything or make any solid content posts? I don't think so. And if that's true you need to maybe think about doing something about that because empty posts don't help anyone.

ETL

No, townffery asks questions, makes observations, watches for the reactions to my questions and others', and develops reads. The fact that you don't see the point of my questions may indicate that our approach to the game is just simply that different. Or it could say something about your alignment that Beli's play hasn't shown any indication of so far. But, from my knowledge of your meta, your aggression as town has much more of a point to it than as scum. And the paranoia comes off more genuine. We'll see how this game shapes up.

I'm trying not to be such a dick these days. Please do not use that as a way to read me and I'd prefer if you didn't intentionally try to rile me up for no reason. I have anger problems that I really want to work on. I know that I've mentioned this in other places too, so it's something you can verify for yourself.

In any case, I'm not going to be using your self-meta to adjust my read, so you can stop that now. I'll talk with Beli, we'll go over our reads together, and see where we're at. But right now, I really like my read on you and I think it's correct. So there.

I don't think we have ever played a game together from the start before, except for maybe a scum-Sangres micro. You've replaced in after there was already a body of work. But I think if you go back and look at some of our earlier games you'll see that my approach is not all that different here from the early days of those games.

I may or may not look. I'm not a fan of digging for meta. If it's not at the top of my head when I get the read, then it's not going to be part of it. Not to mention that

it's not a freakin meta read in the first place

. You saying "but I do this as town, go look" doesn't help me. At all. My read on your slot is based on what I see to be the effects (or rather, lack thereof) of your posts. I don't see the purpose behind them, I don't see the results, and I don't see any of your conclusions. Don't just tell me about your process, show me.

You'll probably see something in the next 24 hours or so. I'm about ready to move out of observation mode for a while. We narrowed our persons of interest list last night. Cabd has something he wants to finish before we vote.

P-edit: Because he's not being scummy ZZZX. He seems excited about what he's doing here. He seems involved and looking for real clues.

Ok.

What did you think of the jester stuff?

I dunno. I'm not exactly interested in setup spec tbh cuz it doesn't really help me at this moment. Maybe later it will be more significant. I have it filed away. The only thing regarding jesters that stood out was the guy who said "I'm definitely not a Jester". I don't quite understand why that comment was made. Is this in relation to ZZZX or separate?

ETL

I was referring to post 167.

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It looks to me like he is giving his experience with bastard games but I don't know. A lot of what he says is somewhat non-sequiter but it hasn't been alignment indicative in the past. I didn't think much of it. Why are you so interested in it over the other stuff in the thread?

ETL

You asked me why I didn't care about your other reads initially. Now, when I want to know more about the basis for your read of zzzx and whether you've taken into account info that caught my eye, you want to know why I care about this read.

I'm interested in this read in particular because you have a strong townread on someone I am scumreading. I want to understand why we differ and if your reasons for townread should make me reconsider.

It might also help me figure out if I want to give any of your reads at this point much weight, and it's further grist for coming to conclusions about your alignment.

I think this question kind of points up, though, that you and I approach the game quite differently.

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This is a cabdpost. Hi. ETL why are you trying the "omg cabd so scary scum" angle? It...

A: never works
B: Hasn't been true for the past few months
and
C: DId I mention it never works?

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Also.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SNS


Roar of Time, you fucking zubat. Die.

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Also willing to vote anyone who thinks ZZZZwhatever is scum for posting in the wrong thread. You can think he's scum, but that's NOT a reason for it.

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Now tell me why cabd is giving me shit for thinking he's a good player.

You're using "cabd is a good player" as an excuse to scumread us as opposed to null read us via burden of proficiency. No need to ask her.

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8.

morph the cat (Cabd+fferyllt)

:

My experience with Cabd is that he's very scary for scum. I replaced into a game as scum and he pegged me pretty much right away.

I think this slot is probably going to be my highest priority for sorting. I don't really know how to read either of them, but I'm hoping Beli can help me with that. That being said.... I'm not happy with them so far Lots of empty questions, no follow up, excuses for not voting while chastising others for doing the same thing. Very strange. I'm also not really sure about their push on snscompt1. From the ISO, I don't get the reasoning. They say he's a "person of interest" because of post 41 but don't explain why even when questioned at least three times about it, and when they finally get around to going into more detail it's because "it looked like buddying" but they never give exact details. What about the post seemed buddying? What was the major difference that made it stand out? There's no transparent thought process. I don't like it.

Side note, after reading snscompt1 ISO - wtf.. 41 was his third post, and the previous 2 were 1 or 2 words. This is so fabricated. This whole thing. LYNCH WITH FIRE.

Scum

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This is very much not.. at all what I'd expect.

If I had a dollar for every time this was said about morph I'd probably have purchased mafiascum it's own building by now.

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This is a cabdpost. Hi. ETL why are you trying the "omg cabd so scary scum" angle? It...

A: never works
B: Hasn't been true for the past few months
and
C: DId I mention it never works?

I don't understand what you are saying Cabd. I gave my experience on most of the playerlist where I had it to give. What do you think I'm supposedly doing with this statement?

Also... I thought yall were scumreading ZZZX???

ETL

p-edit: K. Posting in the wrong thread about the same thread. Ok.

Are you clear on this now?

mine

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Are you clear on this now?

Clear on what, why Cabd's pissy about a perceived BoP read, or why you're willing to vote anyone

voting one of your scumreads

due to an egregious scumslip?

Because I sure as hell don't grok the latter. #167 was clearly "wrong thread, but right game." Jesters are a bastard element, and how many bastard games are going on right now? Oh that's right, one. The "we" and "stay safe" sentiments are clearly something one would write in a scum QT, and scum have daytalk.

Voting ZZZX after the slip is

not

alignment indicative. That lynch is

going

to happen. Scum will be on the wagon to avoid being PoE'd so readily, and town will be on the wagon because when the scum give you a free lynch, you take the fucking free lynch.

-Beli

Clear that we are scumreading ZZZX. I feel like ETL keeps pointing up supposed (but actually nonexistant) contradictions in our posts. Mostly my posts. I don't ordinarily push back on every little thing, but I don't like how this last day or so went at all.

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I don't ask empty questions. Whether I follow up immediately or at all depends on the answers I get.

Your explanation about historical comments to start your paragraphs satisfies me. I haven't talked to Cabd about it. But, some of the other problems I had - for instance your characterization of my question to gameplay being hypocritical or contradictory with my own play, was quite simply incorrect, and I don't see how you can read my posts that way unless you are actually trying to put the worst possible interpretation on each individual post rather than looking at the conversation as a whole.

Players doing stuff that prolongs RVS or that looks like they are ignoring or refusing to engage actual content that drives the game beyond RVS always gets my attention.

I think Beli is aware of this about my early game.

Anyway, you're utterly wrong about us. Cabd has reminded me that you rage about as either alignment, but there are alignment differences in how you go about it, which will come to light. Waiting is.

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your characterization of my question to gameplay being hypocritical or contradictory with my own play, was quite simply incorrect,

From your ISO, it looked to me like you gave someone a snarky response about why you did not place a vote, and then later poked at gameplay for doing the same thing. It looks hypocritical to me in the ISO, perhaps not in context, but the point of doing ISOs is to find the contradictions that may not be apparent in context.

Players doing stuff that prolongs RVS or that looks like they are ignoring or refusing to engage actual content that drives the game beyond RVS always gets my attention.

Is this your explanation of the context? You were poking at gameplay because he was RVSing at a point that you felt it was no longer appropriate?

I have no idea how you could possibly have missed that this was the problem I had with gameplay. That was why your nitpicking this against my own tendency not to vote at all until I see something I think is lynchworthy as somehow cotradictory looked like a non sequitor

In case the conclusion I reached somehow got lost in all the dust you've raised, I think gameplay's reaction to my pressure didn't look scummy.

Also, forgive me if I do not trust either of you to be able to read my alignment correctly from "rage", considering how 1) I haven't played regularly as ETL in the last 2 months and I'm positive Cabd isn't aware of all my alts currently in circulation, and 2) I've been working pretty diligently on adjusting my playstyle, focusing mostly on channeling my emotions and not insulting people. Me telling you what I'm working on regarding that isn't going to help you, but neither is guessing about it.

We'll read you as best we can as the data comes in. The lack of trust in read ability obviously goes both ways. We at least aren't WRONG yet, because we haven't reached a conclusion. The same can't be said for you.

Lastly, if you're not going to follow up on your questions, how do you expect me to think that is anything BUT scummy? It doesn't look to me like you are actually interested in the results of your inquiry. You can't simply scumread us for pointing out something valid about your play here that doesn't look remotely town motivated. If you actually plan on doing something constructive with those questions, then do it, but don't complain that I'm scumreading you when you haven't yet. I've been strung along far too many times by scum who were "too busy" or "not done yet", and I've done it myself more than once. Actually, until recently, that was probably my biggest scum tell and I don't know why no one ever fucking caught it.

I don't ask questions or do anything else in mafia in order for you personally to think anything about me. I ask questions to inform my own reads. I know based on lots of past experience that my body of work always accurately reflects my alignment, and most players will figure that out.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you. I have other people to sort, and you've become a distraction. I'll come back to you later.

ETL

Good enough for now.

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UNVOTE:

for now. Cabd and I need to talk about sns replacing out that way. In the meantime Guyett can have some catch-up space.

VOTE: ZZZX

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I'm pretty sure that rule about unvoting has changed once or twice. :/

[morph the cat]

I'm pretty sure that rule about unvoting has changed once or twice. :/

To get back to this, when I first read the rules, they said unvote

was required

. I checked a couple days ago when bert's votes were being weird and the rules said unvote

was not required

. I assumed I misread initially until ETL said something about the rules saying they are required.

As of the time of this post, the rules now say unvotes are not required again.

[morph the cat]

@Oversoul

I haven't talked about this meta-review with Cabd, which I really should since he reads all the games and I don't. But, we may not get a chance to discuss KA's meta before I fly out tonight, and I have no idea what my time will be like during the first week or so that I'm back in Florida. My dad starts chemo on Friday and we'll see what he and my mom need in the way of support following that.

Anyway.

In reviewing his Fire Emblem: Awakening ISO, I was reminded again how much he impressed me in that game. It was fast-moving and he came into the game as one of the children on Day 2, so he had a lot of data to work with, as well as a lot of spamposting, and he did what I thought was a good job of sifting through it and developing good reads. Most of the deaths in that game were janitored, which made the associative stuff much more difficult to trace. Going back through that, I don't see much concern from him during the game about being a likely default mislynch, though he was pretty hard on himself in the postgame.

The next game I played with him was MarketPlace Mafia III. The negativity about his play doesn't really come out here, either, until postgame where he apologizes, "Sorry that I replaced in even though I really didn't have time for it, and turned what was an obvtown slot into an easy mislynch." Looking at his contribution in retrospect, he was much quieter in this game than in the FEA game (which was still going on), and I remember not being as impressed with his level of analysis at the time, and being concerned that the difference was alignment indicative. But, his reads weren't all that bad, and certainly better than the reads some town players had during that game.

In the AA Mini 1522 game, he posted a lot less than I'd seen from him in the past. His 8th post in the game was quite the self-indictment for his skills as a player in general. "Despite my join date, I'm actually probably one of the worst mafia players in this game." I think this was when I finally realized that he has a pretty poor opinion of his own play.

The next link I'd like to include here doesn't exist any more. He posted in the sign up thread for the Dark Age of the Law game. As I recall he was apologetic for not joining the game, dissed his own play pretty thoroughly, and was slowly talked into joining the game. Once he was in the game, he gave it his best shot, and I feel bad about helping him be deadline-mislynched after an insane day 1 part 1 (double day format). It was his post 191 where he brought up his opinion of his play within the game.

So, I'm seeing a trajectory here. I think FEA was his first game after a hiatus. He's gotten mislynched with distressing frequency and he's become more and negative about his play. This marks a departure in that it's first time I've seen him talk about being mislynch bait right from the start, but the posts have been heavily foreshadowed in other games. I can see an argument that his playing it up more here than in past games could be alignment indicative. But, I'll want to see other differences in his play before I buy such an argument.



This was a pretty

[morph the cat]

Screwed up the link to his FEA iso: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Final sentence fragment is detritus.

[morph the cat]

And with that, Ffery-head will be on V/LA starting this evening. Precise return to frequent, active posting is unknown at this time.

[morph the cat]

I'm looking forward to playing with you guys again. Sorry I'll miss your catch-up until later.

[morph the cat]

We are a Militan Unrequited Lover with bert btw. If he dies we die and we take out whoever killed him

Oh you.

[morph the cat]

P-edit: All flavor claims should come with a game reference. I have information that can help root out fake claims.

What do you mean by game reference?

Your role PM should be in the form of "You are [name], from [game]. You are a [role].". So if you are flavor claiming, you should be able to tell us what game you're from.

You think flavor claiming on day 1 is a good idea?

[morph the cat]

stop flavor fishing, Guyitt

what's the harm in flavor claiming? ill go first!

pick me. pick me. also guyitt stop active lurking

what changed your mind?

[morph the cat]

KA, I'm kind of missing the sort of analysis and reads you have done in other games we've played together. Not seeing that worries me way more than your early warning labels did.

[morph the cat]

:/ See that's part of the problem. It's like you're waiting around for data to happen. Data HAS happened. If it's not enough data or the right kind of data for you, why aren't you asking questions?

Your lying read is a lot stronger than mine, but I am leaning town on them.

What do you feel makes them obvious town? And what do you think of IA scumreading them? And of that slot in general?

[morph the cat]

To be honest I couldn't comprehend a word that sns said. I think Arsehole's scumread on them is OMGUS, since I don't think they actually read the game yet. I really don't like the fact that they are trying to start a flavor claim, and trolling in ways that could actually draw out full claims.

IA replaced sns.

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I don't like KA

Shoot:KA

jsyk if you make up shit and keep changing your story in this game we will quite remorselessly lynch you into the ground.

[morph the cat]

ifthat wasn't classic guyetti;d ldt you buyou pushin nkthat knowing it si ais scumjy as fuck. fi it wroent for beli i'd be lyncing you.

The last game we played with IA they lied through their teeth and changed their claims repeatedly. They were a 3rd party who eventually were converted to town lovers with another player.

You think whatever you like. I will have no patience for that kind of crap this time out.

[morph the cat]

I know they replaced sns, that was the point of me mentioning them in the same section?

Then I don't understand what you were saying about them OMGUSing sns.

[morph the cat]

I'm saying Arsehole OMGUSed Lying. That appears to be their sole reason for the scumread. The sns comment was saying that I didn't get anything from him because I just don't understand what he said.

Ok, thanks. Do you think it was a serious scumread?

[morph the cat]

Why do you think she would know better?

Morph I have no clue, but I think they actually need to read more than one post before having a read on them.

Probably for the same reason I expect town-Beli to recognize my game.

[morph the cat]

both of your heads

* takes notes to emulate this for my next scumgame against you *

[morph the cat]

Apologies for disappearing like that. I got kidnapped.
Will read through soon. Anything I should keep in mind while reading?

The rest of your team broke down and confessed. They've agreed to lynch you first.

Poor varsoon never can get a break, this already happened to him once.

[morph the cat]

I love it when you talk Elizabethan.

[morph the cat]

I think you're confusing our posts. 376 was Cabd. I never talk about what I'll do in my next scum game. Just about what I hope someday in the mists of time that my scum game can encompass.

[morph the cat]

Nice save, furry.

No offense to that community, but morph is more of a BDSM dom.

[morph the cat]

Cabd gets it easier because I won't be satisfied until I beat him legit as scum. Cabd is like the anti-Nacho.

Good luck. You'll need it.

[morph the cat]

On a more serious note, I'm looking back at SNS's past games and apologetic-sns is scum SNS. So given his replace out....

[morph the cat]

Nice try, but Cabd is fully confident in his ability to beat town-me with a red role PM

What is this in answer to?

[morph the cat]

Ffery's post about 383.

The hilarious part is, that post was me and now you won't believe us.

[morph the cat]

Ffery's post about 383.

That was kinda my point. From your reply to 383 it looked to me like you thought it was a ffery post. And yes, Cabd is fully confident he can conquer the galaxy with a red role PM.

[morph the cat]

There's no need to flavorclaim. I imagine all the scum have been given a credible fakeclaim, so there's no advantage in it. Not to mention the possibility of scum discerning roles from flavor.

Agree. Having backup modded for and played in several natigames in the past I am positive claiming will not break anything wide open.

The bert angle you'll need to sell me on.

[morph the cat]

Ffery's post about 383.

That was kinda my point. From your reply to 383 it looked to me like you thought it was a ffery post. And yes, Cabd is fully confident he can conquer the galaxy with a red role PM.

Why would I limit myself to ~THIS~ galaxy only?

[morph the cat]

ok, I'm totally confused. And I need to stop posting and leave for the airport.

laterz.

[morph the cat]

Where the hell did zzzx go?

[morph the cat]

I Claim Town

[morph the cat]

Heh.

Your new play style looks like it's become comfortable.

Could one of you two explain what this is referring to?

Bulba has trying to do less deathtunneling in town games. When he first started working on this, it didn't look very natural. I thought it made him harder to read.

I Claim Town

for theory discussion, ffery?

It was Cabd. I agree with him, though, that KA's posts have looked kinda town the last few pages.

[morph the cat]

Synch Achieved.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: IA

More when spayhalf isn't playing the Florida dance and neuterhalf isn't being a lazy fuck.

[morph the cat]

woah I have lots of votes on me

time to get serious

why am I being voted.?

We are voting you in part because of Cabd's read of sns. He was our strongest scum read while he was in the game. And Cabd doesn't think the way he replaced out fit sns' townplay from the 6prizes site. I unvoted when you replaced in for a number of reasons. We wanted to see what you did with the slot. We wanted to see what ETL thought of you guys. We wanted to see what ZZZX did after we unvoted you and voted him.

ZZZX has been replaced. Drunk-ETL called you town but hasn't had much else to say since then. Your play so far hasn't settled any of the concerns we had about the slot originally.

[morph the cat]

ETL, I assume this post was you:

ifthat wasn't classic guyetti;d ldt you buyou pushin nkthat knowing it si ais scumjy as fuck. fi it wroent for beli i'd be lyncing you.

That was your reaction to me telling IA that we'd lynch the fuck out of them if they set up another huge pyramid of fake-claims like they did in GiF's cult micro.

[morph the cat]

Ok so I haven't ISOed sns and I don't want to, so can you point out what made you consider him scummy? maybe I can defend that

The main thing that caught my eye was his reaction to KA.

The other players in the game were either "been there, done that" or suspicious of KA for entering the game by dissing his recent gameplay and pointing out that he's an easy mislynch. sns' post was sympathetic and immediately raised a "buddying?" flag for me. If you look at his other posts before and after that one, you'll see that as well as being quite different from the reactions of other players it was also quite different from the tone of his own posts, which came off sarcastic and snarky.

Sarcastic and snarky isn't alignment indicative, according to Cabd. So, I'm left with the clang of a post that doesn't fit the rest of his ISO.

Sometimes players will say something, or indicate a level of distress about a game that will draw me out of a "this game" focus. It could be that sns' post to KA fits that mold.

But, the apologetic, I'm-in-over-my-head tone of his replace-out post strikes Cabd as not like town-sns.

And then there's your play, which doesn't look like it's focused on developing reads or finding scum.

[morph the cat]

so basically at least 2(3?) votes on me are bacuse of sns?

morph can you please provide post numbers or context or something

It's a 15 post ISO. :/

The post to KA was 41

The replace-out post was 239

I see you ignored my comment about a lack of scumhunting.

[morph the cat]

UNVOTE:

[morph the cat]

What do you mean, no counterwagon?

If anything, the IA (and ZZZX) wagons were counter to the KA wagon.

[morph the cat]

What do you mean, no counterwagon?

If anything, the IA (and ZZZX) wagons were counter to the KA wagon.

Yes. Fine. And they disintegrated. If IA is scum, what happened? Does it make sense to you?

Wagons exist on player A and player B.
Player C shows up.
Wagons on players A/B go poof, and wagon on player C, and only player C explodes.

That tells me that there are votes on there that are only there to lynch player C. That tells me that people moved in that direction because they saw an opportunity to do so. It tells me that it's a wagon that has no opposition

from the scum team

. It tells me something is wrong and we should be looking at where it went wrong.

ETL

The wagon fizzled earlier. I dunno.

What is your read of them?

[morph the cat]

I'll have a lot of time tomorrow morning/afternoon to attend to this properly. Neither of the suggestions of "wow this wagon is off because there's not suitable counterwagon" are so off-kilter.

I catch a lot of scum dude. If you don't think the lack of a counterwagon idea has merit, then I don't know what the fuck you are doing, because it ain't scumhunting.

ETL

Your argument re counterwagons isn't particularly compelling to me either. But, I think the concern about the day being cut short before you can do the analysis you want to do

is

compelling.

[morph the cat]

morph the cat: "Synch achieved" What? Prior to the vote, nothing regarding IA. Next post does explain. Weird though, because they call sns the strongest scum read, when it was ZZZX prior to the replacement, and from what I can tell, the only reasoning for scumreading the slot at all is the replace out.

No, you've missed a bit, there. We were voting sns before he replaced out, and we telegraphed the shit out of that vote. We switched to ZZZX because he was our next strongest scum read and we wanted to give IA a little slack to get their foot into the game.

I'm kinda wondering what the hell it is you looik at when you ISO someone. It's evidently not who they question, who they interact with, and who they vote for.

[morph the cat]

Bert what are you thinking about SSK?

[morph the cat]

I'm getting tired of this shit.

[morph the cat]

There's a lot of resistance to lynching the ZZZX slot now, isn't there? Lots of people are all "synced" on IA. They were "synced" on ZZZX too for a while, weren't they? The IA wagon had far more momentum. And hell yeah that gives me pause! It should make

you

wonder too!

I'm not letting this go. Maru being in the slot now only makes me want it more.

I'd like you to respond to my concerns about how you have grossly mischaracterized our stances and play.

As an aside, FYI "synch achieved" is a fferyllt-ism for "this hydra has discussed the game through to the current post, is on the same page, and the vote is a consensus vote." My hydra partners usually use the same jargon, as is the case in this game. You apparently find the word controversial. I have no idea why.

[morph the cat]

No I don't? I just didn't understand the statement in your vote post. What bulb is talking about is unrelated to your "synch achieved" comment.

Also - wat? I haven't "grossly mischaracterized" anything. It is my perception of your words. If it's wrong, that's your fault.

I am really in a foul mood at the moment for various non-MS related reasons. I should really step away. I'm going to do that now.

bolded is all incorrect and if you've actually read our ISO (which you claim to have done), you'd know it's incorrect.

morph the cat: "Synch achieved" What?

Prior to the vote, nothing regarding IA. Next post does explain. Weird though, because they call sns the strongest scum read, when it was ZZZX prior to the replacement, and from what I can tell, the only reasoning for scumreading the slot at all is the replace out

.

No, you've missed a bit, there. We were voting sns before he replaced out, and we telegraphed the shit out of that vote. We switched to ZZZX because he was our next strongest scum read and we wanted to give IA a little slack to get their foot into the game.

I'm kinda wondering what the hell it is you looik at when you ISO someone. It's evidently not who they question, who they interact with, and who they vote for.

mine

[morph the cat]

Should he flip scum, IA becomes as good as conftown, we ignore Beli and lynch morph the cat for good game go town

"We" do no such thing.

[morph the cat]

I feel like zzzx's jester post is probably a red herring, but overall I had his slot as scum. My strongest scum read is pushing the fuck out of that slot, which makes me a little cautious. And ETL's attitude toward the game and toward me/us makes me want to be stubborn about my position here.

I'd like to see more beli posts. :/

The whole catchup without reading a role PM thing is squicky.

[morph the cat]

bulba I'm getting a vague sense of being WK'd by you and it's freaking me out a little.

[morph the cat]

I don't feel good about this but whatever. We don't have much time.

VOTE: Beast

Where would you rather have your vote, time permitting?

[morph the cat]

We're working on lynching this gameplay guy.

Oversoul, we can create relational tells by wagoning him. And he already has some interesting ones, like his interactions with morph earlier and your own resistance to it.

I don't know what you mean by oversoul's resistance to it? And what do you make of those interactions?

[morph the cat]

Nnnnngh... oh man.. I am so hung over..
I hope I didn't do anything crazy last night like replace into a mafia ga-OH SHIT

I guess I should reread this thing. On the plus side I'm not a voyeur so I'm happy. There's kind of one day left and half the people aren't voting, were you guys planning to lynch today or are we testing out Stabsinthe's awesome strategy?

You've been following the game?

[morph the cat]

Willing to choose between gameplay and IA only.

Ffery I would like to discuss ETL.

The third is the toughest, heck getting any of them right is.

Can't discuss ETL in this game without discussing Beli.

I'll look at gameplay again in a bit, but I don't see us moving our vote to him.

[morph the cat]

I took our vote off IA because ETL was having fits that their wagon was going through too easily. Consider our vote there.

[morph the cat]

if you guys check out bulba's voting record in comparison with VCs at the time, I'm pretty sure you'll see why I'm voting there.

plz elaborate.

[morph the cat]

Can't discuss ETL in this game without discussing Beli.

...and then you'll run out of superlatives. Here are some Kilrathi ones to help out:
-ga suffix = approbative enhancer (i.e., kut = clean, kutga = holy)
-gaga suffix = like ga, but stronger
thrak = great (can be used as a prefix or suffix, as in kn'thrak for the Great Void or thrak'hra for the nobility)
ki = good (kithrak = excellent)

...I'm setting myself up for one roaring hell of an insult, aren't I?

heh.

We aren't interested in lynching IA today, or maybe ever. I trust ETL's reads on Guyett, so that's up to her. ETL is still scumreading Morph, but I'm not interested in going there without a scumflip from bc.

And it's going to take more than we've seen so far from IA to erase the bad taste sns left for both of us, but particularly for Cabd. zzzx is our next strongest scum read, but it has nothing to do with the jester crap. I'd prefer to see that lynch over gameplay because I still feel like gameplay's reaction to my push about a very late (from my perspective) rvs vote rang town.

Bulba would be acceptable. I'm e'er paranoid about him and ETL's been howling for his blood in our hydra QT so loudly I'm actually glad for the old man wax in my ears serving as a volume-reduction apparatus.

I got an early townsense from bulba, but overall he bothers me. Reminds me a little of his hydra scum play in Thad's neighborhood game.

[morph the cat]

It was scumfuck.

I miss that name. :/

[morph the cat]

Can't discuss ETL in this game without discussing Beli.

Discuss Beli? I don't think I've played with Beli before, and has he shown up other than to say SAY MY MANE, VARLET?

Yes you have. Yes he has. He dumped a load of paranoia about me in one of his earlier posts, when I asked if a beli post was made by ETL, which is actually where my townread started to gel.

[morph the cat]

Scumfuck was renamed because chiclets.

[morph the cat]

Morph: I'm increasingly sure you aren't going to actually vote who you said you will for whatever reason

. Commit srsly.

You may be right about my compass. We'll probaby synch sometime in the next few hours. Sun won't set without a vote.

[morph the cat]

Morph, why aren't you voting IA-scum with me?

What is your lying scum read?

[morph the cat]

What is your lying scum read?

Town, but annoyed at ETL.

And you think that town-ETL would so emphatically get her Guyett read wrong?

[morph the cat]

How do you know it's wrong, morph?

I don't

know

it's wrong. You and I disagree on the read. I'm working through whether to value your guyett read over my sns read (and Cabd's as well).

I feel like Bulba, if town, should have a similar thought process about you, and yet he's asking me to vote IA with him.

[morph the cat]

I feel like Bulba, if town, should have a similar thought process about you, and yet he's asking me to vote IA with him.

yes exactly... ? He's trying to butter you up because you disagree with me, and using AtE and trying to make me feel guilty about wanting to lynch him.

Actually what bothered me more than anything was bulba defending me when you totally misread my trajectory on sns/IA. Part of it is the implied strong townread. Part of it is the timing - it would have been better for us to sort ourselves out if possible before someone leaping to mediate.

[morph the cat]

bert, you're making me nervous. :/

[morph the cat]

no you are making me nervous with your not voting any of your scumreads

which is the first hint of concern about me that I can recall.

that's what makes me nervous.

[morph the cat]

and you all but called bulba but leaned scum, didnt vote him

called IA your best option based on the read on sns's replaceout, still didnt vote them.

???

I'm leaning toward not voting IA unless Cabd is still feeling pretty strongly about that read once he catches up. Which puts zzzx and possibly bulba in the frame.

didnt discuss ETL and made comments about Beli whom I don't know, and then that was that.

Do you have questions about my LS read?

[morph the cat]

zzzx/bc, but it's primarily a zzzx read.

[morph the cat]

like, being concerned about you and waiting for you to actually place a vote or commit somewhere is about as exciting as watching paint dry

so, i have sat on my hands until 20 hours remaining

You know where I stand if you're reading the thread today. It will be a consensus vote.

[morph the cat]

Do you have questions about my LS read?

do you feel like they are scum? yes or no or maybe?

No.

i also dont want to end the day at deadline, i want time for someone to be "dead" before then before the thread locks, so i can see if i can submit "during the day" and talk to that dead person at night if he/she flips town. its worth a shot

A good point.

[morph the cat]

Also lots of support for Bulbazak makes me go hmmm Still tons of resistance to zzzx/maruchan/bc lynch. Please someone tell me this is ringing alarm bells. Every counterwagon to ZZZX has taken off like a rocket and no one wants to lynch ZZZX.

It's impossible for

all

the people not voting zzzx to be scum.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Beast Charizard

[morph the cat]

This is me EXPLICITLY claiming that my flavor matches my role, so kindly fucking piss off about flavor claiming.

There, now you fuckers can't claim to have missed this.

[morph the cat]

(Yes this means cabd is back since the doctor checked the "not cancer" box during the consult today, wheee)

[morph the cat]

would rather lynch bc. slightly.

[morph the cat]

can we please lynch bc?

[morph the cat]

if the flip means lying scum was not town, and rather was scum

If that's true

VOTE: fferyllt

I had them as potential scum and it was really awkward trying to discuss them with you, i finally got a "no they are town" read after prodding with multiple Reiki sticks!! And that town read was after you kept asking ETL questions as if you didn't understand what she was doing.

REIKI

I think you meant to vote Morph.

If ETL hadn't been hydraing with Beli I probably wouldn't ever have settled on a town read day 1 because ETL was quite belligerent about misreading my posts and afaik never went back to see how wrong she was about my trajectory on sns.

I'll wait for IA and bulba to report, but my inclination at the moment is to vote Oversoul.

[morph the cat]

Our role name is crumbed here.

Also.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SNS


Roar of Time, you fucking zubat. Die.

[morph the cat]

Lying Scum,

Heiss, from Radiant Historia, Omnicidal Time Abyss

, was devoured by darkness night one.

It is now day two. If I missed any actions--pm me.

Our role card is green. Hm.

[morph the cat]

No we're not from Radiant Historia. We're Dialga from Pokemon Diamond.

[morph the cat]

Maybe! I wasn't sure whether it meant PR or scum when I saw the 'blue.' She kept having these sparks where she kept rotating between a full head of steam and apologetic for no reason, that kind of way where she never coldly scumread me. It was hard to wrap my head around that strange behavior. I was waiting to see if Ffery would come forward and discuss why ETL is town, but that never happened. The proportionality of ETL's attacks didn't really match the anger.

Also, the ZZZX wagon, it felt like morph was couching statements about wanting to lynch BC (who replaced ZZZX). "would rather lynch slightly." I find that suspect considering their revelations about how sns's replace-out wasn't town according to Cabd. How would you prefer bc slightly over that? They had no attacks on ZZZX that showed any amount of healthy suspicion. My theory is that Ffery was in the driver's seat with no IA not being lynchable if they hopped off the train, and for some reason they preferred a lurker lynch.

would rather lynch bc. slightly.

My slight preference at that point was because of the role claims. That and wanting to trust ETL about IA. If Lying Scum aren't town, then I'm not sure what to think about that read.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: morph the cat

I keep thinking of that hydra as ffery, sorry.

You should apologize, but for voting town.



IA, did you investigate us?

[morph the cat]

IIRC he's the biggest or most significant boss in that game.

[morph the cat]

IA, did you investigate us?

[morph the cat]

if the flip means lying scum was not town, and rather was scum

If that's true

VOTE: fferyllt

I had them as potential scum and it was really awkward trying to discuss them with you, i finally got a "no they are town" read after prodding with multiple Reiki sticks!! And that town read was after you kept asking ETL questions as if you didn't understand what she was doing.

REIKI

I think you meant to vote Morph.

If ETL hadn't been hydraing with Beli I probably wouldn't ever have settled on a town read day 1 because ETL was quite belligerent about misreading my posts and afaik never went back to see how wrong she was about my trajectory on sns.

I'll wait for IA and bulba to report, but my inclination at the moment is to vote Oversoul.

Mmmmmnope
Town

After mullling over it, I don't feel like you're making yourself a presence like I remember from previous games.

[morph the cat]

Then why the fuck did you ask our role name?

[morph the cat]

To follow that up, Morph why did you answer if you had already crumbed it? Bert because something just seems off about his play to me, and Mirhawk because I don't know.

Because, IMO it's not the sort of crumb that makes the name obvious. But it does corroborate the name completely once the name is given.

[morph the cat]

Yeah, I get that, but what I'm asking is why you didn't force him to tell you what your name was first, since you could prove it on your end?

I'm the linear thinker in this hydra. I probably share more than I should earlier than I should as town. And I'm more interested in figuring out the ramifications of the LS flip atm.

[morph the cat]

If there's time travel in this game someone just shoot me

Because paradox prime?

My role's wording suggests that there is something to do with time manipulation in this game.

[morph the cat]

my inclination at the moment is to vote Oversoul.

May I ask why?

Like I said, the level of involvement in this game feels off. But, I can understand an overall sitewide dip due to real life. I'm dealing with the same atm and I have no idea when things will get back to normal for me.

[morph the cat]

KA I mean that in games when scum flips are announced they are announced with red color. When town flip are announced they are announced with green color. This means blue color can only be 3rd party. I will check some of Nati's other games and see if this is true.

This isn't universal, but from reviewing some other games, it looks like Nati mostly follows this convention.

In Rock Operafia, Rift Adrift-me was a serial killer and our role was blue.

[morph the cat]

Yellow is neutral, just so ya know.

Hmm. So if yellow is neutral, that still doesn't clear up whether Lying Scum was third-party or scum.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: morph

Both IA and Bulba are probably town,

which means all three near-DL wagons yesterday were most likely on town

. No wonder everyone including scum seemed so relaxed near the end of the day. They didn't do do any heavy lifting.

Going back to review this game tonight so I can come back tomorrow and have something to say.

This is one of the reasons I'm suspicious of Oversoul. Also kinda suspicious of Rubicon. This feels like a game where scum have been lurky.

[morph the cat]

It's a modified cult leader who can have only one recruit at a time. They usually have a kill after the recruitment(s). Typically (I think) when the mentor dies, so does the mentee and the faction is finished.

[morph the cat]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mentor

[morph the cat]

I pretty much agree about bulba's claim. I know from recent experience (Arcadia and Rock Operafia micros) the level of help Nati gives for fake claims. Most of it is on the player. This doesn't feel like something scum would dream up and then have the mod slap on a coat of flavor.

[morph the cat]

What do you think of him calling you town based on it?

This is a not-paying-attention question.

[morph the cat]

She wasn't in that hydra, that was all me (cabd) and even I think I was way too over the top in hindsight, so.

[morph the cat]

(I fully admit the urge to find syryana's nodding gif was there for a second, but I won't)

[morph the cat]

if Lying Scum was an SK why was there only one kill?

let me count the ways

[morph the cat]

Why assume LS was a SK?

Neutral claim of being yellow, town color is green, scum color for nati is almost always red....

[morph the cat]

Why assume LS was a SK?

Mostly because Nati likes SKs.

[morph the cat]

Oh also fwiw as the guy who sorta runs Tales games like he owns the series, Luke makes total sense as a neutral. He's a wannabe hero that fucks up his life so badly by being corrupted by the wrong people.

@Luke, did you get a haircut as a part of your new role?

[morph the cat]

Woops, crospsosting. 1007 was spay-half, rest was neuter-half

[morph the cat]

Hey bert you're voting us but you have like zero conviction, what's up with that?

[morph the cat]

Although I think our posts are pretty distinctive, this is a hydra where posts often get misattributed.

[morph the cat]

She wasn't in that hydra, that was all me (cabd) and even I think I was way too over the top in hindsight, so.

I thought that was a Cabd post.
I don't really address separate entities in hydras unless I have to because PEOPLE (Mastin, Nero, Mollie)

Our levels of snark have converged nicely. Hence why if it's important, I comment that it was spayhalf (ffery) or nueterhalf (Cabd)

[morph the cat]

<bob barker>
Well, make sure to spay and neuter your cats.
</bob barker>

[morph the cat]

Liking oversoul more.

Liking bert less.

[morph the cat]

Liking oversoul more.

Liking bert less.

^That's from both heads.

[morph the cat]

My dislike has nothing to do with his claim and everything to do with there being no zip to his push on us.

[morph the cat]

That wasn't ffery. That was me (cabd)

[morph the cat]

Also, I just submitted my request to talk to ETL tonight so I will let you all know how that goes, assuming I survive.

Why do you want to talk to a 3rd party?

[morph the cat]

I think ffery is playing differently here than in Arcadia, but I'm not sure if that's because she's town or because she's trying harder. I lean toward it being her town game, though.

I don't think you know much about my town game.

[morph the cat]

My dislike has nothing to do with his claim and everything to do with there being no zip to his push on us.

I. don't. enjoy. tunneling. you.

It makes the game a pain to play through. Our first newbie was a pain because I was stuck in a tunnel. 169 was a pain. Arcadia even though you were scum was a pain. Every. game. has. been. a. pain. because. of. tunneling. you. Nat's Mini Normal was a huge pain because of my tunneling.

Arcadia was a pain because you complained about me not engaging with you all enough. I tried to do my own thing in that game.

It's as annoying to me as the cliche "Ffery isn't doing enough and pushing wagons, and is waffling and therefore scummy" is to you. I don't enjoy making the same points that don't even work in every game I'm in with you.

Lighten up and let everything play out.

I don't enjoy being tunneled. I stress about it less as town usually, but I don't enjoy it. And though I stress about it less, I probably bitch about it more as town because I don't self-censor as town about the same things that I self-censor as scum.

You're reminding Cabd of a recent game where someone buddied him on day 1 and then tunneled him on day 2. I also played the game and I can kinda see his point, but for me, I have the impression you're vote-parking on us.

[morph the cat]

'My' as in ffery's? Not enough to break through my paranoia, no. I've played like 3-4 games with town ffery though. I consider the bigger issue that I don't know your/her scum game very well.

As far as I can remember we've played 2 completed games total and one of those I was scum. L4D and Arcadia. What games have I forgotten?

[morph the cat]

How am I vote-parking when I already switched my vote to Bulba once today?

If I don't vote you, then there's no "conviction" in my case and there wasn't "conviction about voting you." If I continue voting you, then you consider it a vote park.

You all didn't have a problem vote-parking on me for the entirety of Day 1 (you and Tammy) during Arcadia. I thought it was for reactions then. What if mine is for reactions now too?

pixel-me voted you for a relatively short period. And we were scum.

You had a decent reason to vote bulba prior to more data hitting thee thread. Your reasons for voting us IMO are bullshit, which is why it feels like a vote-park.

[morph the cat]

Dr Who and Mini 1568 off the top of my head.

Ah. Didn't remember you were in Dr Who and we didn't cross paths in 1568.

My replace-in style is a little different from my early play as a starting player. I'd probably be a better player if I played like a replace-in from the start but it's hard to do that without data.

[morph the cat]

IMO your reasons for suspecting me are BS too!

prior to more data hitting thee thread.

Keyword is 'prior.' Day has opened for less than 12 hours, and you're accusing me of vote-parking already.

Anyways, after the "prior," Bulba then explained why he knew shos was town after shos claimed being RB/JKed. The explanation is something I'm willing to buy.

I also don't think the lurking/disappearing is something this game has been plagued with, outside of maybe Oversoul. Oversoul is inactive because of IRL, so your enthusiasm for his lynch isn't really understandable. He's not someone who usually has difficulty voicing his opinions, but in this case he's null.

We've backed off the Oversoul read. It was the same post where we indicated some discomfort with you.

Any thoughts about Mirhawk?

[morph the cat]

IMO your reasons for suspecting me are BS too!

I am just simply not getting any real sense that you're scumreading us. I feel like you're trying harder to convince me I'm wrong than you are trying to sort me.

[morph the cat]

Even if I displayed some bravado about wanting to push your lynch through, that's just a waste of energy and I really, really doubt your lynch would go through anyways. You didn't consider my reasoning for deadline vote-hopping to be poorly founded yesterday, so I don't really see the direction you're going in right now.

I followed your recommendations to lynch IA (and someone else who I can't remember), but the lack of responses I got from you about ETL/Beli as well as other players felt like just posturing on reads. I had to ask you a Yes/No/Maybe about ETL-read, several times to be exact before I got a response. Somehow, the end of Day 1 went haywire where you all settled on ZZZX (who was kinda lurky/scummy), instead of IA (sns meta-read) or Bulba (who you had insinuated scumminess about multiple times). Even now, you are claiming that Bulba is a decent vote given the circumstances.

Why ZZZX? There is a lot of reason for concern after how D1 played out at the end.

I'm trying to picture the game from a perspective where all this happened.

I felt like I telegraphed the hell out of my ETL/Beli read. I would have been scumreading them if not for Beli.

At the end of the game day we had 2 claims - one investigative by IA and one that sounded sort of investigative by bulba. The reason I backed off bulba was because of that claim. I had already backed off IA because I decided to trust ETL's ability to read guyett.

I think if Cabd had been around he would probably have wanted our vote someplace besides zzzx/beast because he's better at reading beast than I am. I thought we had a pretty good chance of hitting scum with that lynch.

I'm going to have to figure out what I've learned about ETL's game from this one. It bothered me she didn't put more effort into getting her read of me/cabd right, but that wasn't the only thing that bothered me.

[morph the cat]

I'm not interested in lynching for info. I'm interested in lynching scum.

[morph the cat]

I forgot about all those PR claims. Any PR claim pretty much here would gain towncred in other non-bastard games. What did Beli do that looked town? I forgot he existed outside of a few walls early D1.

He and I have hydra'd a few times. I thought he was hitting the right notes in terms of reading me - getting paranoid about me asking if ETL posted a post that looked a lot like a beli post (I was getting paranoid about her not posting, and mostly wanted to see if shaking a tree or two would cause her to show up) and then picking up on stuff in my posts that I think make more sense to someone who has seen up close how my thoughts manifest in posts because I fill in the blanks in hydra convo.

btw the nacho/mollie 3rd party thoughts makes some sense to me.

[morph the cat]

Do you have to decide during the day phase?

[morph the cat]

If you want to use it today, I'd use it on ETL/Beli.

I'll have to think about some way to verify that you're speaking with beli if we're both alive tomorrow.

[morph the cat]

How long are you able to talk with them?

[morph the cat]

Ok. then I'll have to come up with that verification before the game day ends.

afaiac one verified private convo would be sufficient but that's me.

[morph the cat]

Hi everyone. I do actually exist. I'm going to also post now for sure for sure.

Thoughts:

Of the morph/bert back and forth a couple pages back, I think Bert comes off as the more scummy one. He's way more aggressive than I've seen him be before and in addition it seems like he was doing a bit of overreaching. So my vote goes here VOTE: Bert


I have no reason to believe that bulba is lying and I think I can believe him because the claim is tremendously testable.

I don't understand the Mirhawk wagon still. (lurking?)

Shadoweh, I don't think I've seen enough of to be able to tell.

I don't like the basis of your bert read.

He's not being all that aggressive IMO. I'm pushing him about his read and he's being defensive. That's been part of what bothers me. He was right about me in Nati's mini normal. He started to get suspicious on day 1 and then starting on day 2 he did his damnedest to get me lynched for 2 or 3 game days in a row. I think that's his default town trajectory on me regardless of my alignment.

I want to call him town. I'm not sure what Cabd thinks. I was pretty wine-soaked when we discussed this game last night.

[morph the cat]

I'm not really sure why, but I'm feeling fatalistic about this game.

- a presumed SK
- a player who claims he started without a wincon and would lose if he didn't gain a wincon before the game ended. (This reminds me a little of the pseudojester in the cracking idea deck)

9-2-1-1 that could convert to 10-2-1 or 9-3-1?

[morph the cat]

I dunno. Maybe it's the cold virus. The game feels murky atm.

[morph the cat]

Like, exaggerated emotions on a soap opera or something.

I'm asking this question like you're town, because I'm entertaining that possibility. Do you feel like you have a decent handle on what's going on in this game?

I don't. I feel like half the player list is basically active-lurking. And I feel like my misread of ETL/Beli is an indication I am not paying attention to stuff I should be paying attention to because there were things I was concerned about in their play - mostly ETL's play - and wound up dismissing.

I feel like acknowledging the feeling of being lost is part of a means to get a new toehold in the game. Cabd is v/la until Monday, so my sounding board is gone.

[morph the cat]

Yeah, the bastard angle is a concern. But, I know that Nati thought GiF went to far with the bastard elements in his cult game, and that town was overly disadvantaged.

Looking at yesterday, I think ETL has an SK-tell similar to my own. Should help down the road in future games.

[morph the cat]

I added the hat in celebration of New Years Eve and we decided it's an overall improvement and kept it.

[morph the cat]

I'm not really sure why, but I'm feeling fatalistic about this game.

- a presumed SK
- a player who claims he started without a wincon and would lose if he didn't gain a wincon before the game ended. (This reminds me a little of the pseudojester in the cracking idea deck)

9-2-1-1 that could convert to 10-2-1 or 9-3-1?

This feels so ridiculously swingy.

Yes it does.

[morph the cat]

@Shadoweh

I think you have an erroneous impression of my hydra play. :/ In most games I'm by far the most frequent poster en hydra regardless of our role. real life affects my posting frequency far more than anything else usually.

In the game we played together, I took an intentional backseat as a tactic for Nacho and me to develop reads because it's very much not my usual style as a hydra.

Regarding your setup spec, if the scum team started with 2, then both are probably pretty powerful, including some sort of protection from what looks like an SK.

[morph the cat]

Agree.

[morph the cat]

My spec about scum having a protective ability of some sort makes me want to dive into nk analysis. :/

I doubt it would be productive at this point. I may post some thoughts before nightfall anyway, though.

[morph the cat]

Why would we talk about that game?

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Gameplay

Motivation for you.

[morph the cat]

^He just made the wrong call in LYLO in wake's mountainous mini normal. This replace out smells town, will see if spayhalf agrees.

[morph the cat]

17. Daytalk is enabled for all factions by default.

Yeah, reading is tech.

[morph the cat]

^He just made the wrong call in LYLO in wake's mountainous mini normal. This replace out smells town, will see if spayhalf agrees.

spayhalf agrees.

UNVOTE:

[morph the cat]

You took a backseat to Cabd when you played as this hydra in Achievement Unlocked. You were scum in that game.

Also true, and further evidence that it wasn't a town tell.

The odd thing is that Shadoweh apparently thinks that's what I've done in this game.

[morph the cat]

I actually don't care all that much what you claim, as everyone claims this big PR

But in the interest of not hammering without a claim, please claim!

Hmm. We like the wagon, but we'll want to think about the claim.

talking to beast tonight sounds better than LS to me, btw.

[morph the cat]

morph the cat:

Taking a town leadership position, is probably town, will probably get nightkilled, more stupid questions, why is everyone 40 pages later suspicious of them anyways?

I think it's because ffery has a passive posting style. If anyone suspects ffery doesn't act like that as scum go ahead and try to disprove it, but recent experience says she's more of a backseat hydra mafian.

I am 100% not reading the walls of arguing with ETL but the fact that it's happening makes me more confident in this being a town slot.

I think I took a leadership position on day 1 and maybe early day 2, but I'm pretty lost atm. I have 4 players I'd be willing to consider lynching and that's pretty much unheard of for me in a game this size. I usually don't have enough scumreads. And half of the players I'm willing to aren't scumreads. They're "I have no clue" reads and I don't expect the reads to solidify based on how things are going so far.

Your read above, on the face of it do,esn't make sense to me. You're claiming that I'm taking a leadership position but suggesting I'm being scumread because I have a passive play style. And the bolded is pretty much the opposite of an argument for townreading me.

[morph the cat]

I have read your posts from the latter half of your ISO and I can't find a read of Always. I hope it's scum. I worry it's not.

PEdit: No, temptress will get you strung up just as quickly.

The arrogance bugs me and could eventually affect my read depending on other aspects of play, but Always posted some very town stuff early in the game day and has continued to hit those notes occasionally. My read hasn't changed.

[morph the cat]

^^ Wrong game.

[morph the cat]

address people in a way that leads to the lynch you think would garner the most information.

Where have I done this?

[morph the cat]

You just confirmed that you didn't read our argument.

[morph the cat]

Was that hammer?

/sigh

We were trying to talk about it. I guess at least it's a potential nightkill source removed even if it might have been in town hands.